Using nuclear to become an officer

[JSin]

I recently got declined to be picked up for OCS.  One of the options my officer recruiter mentioned in passing was to go enlisted since they pick up most of the OCS people from the enlisted ranks first and then fill the rest of the slots with qualified civilians.  So it would be much harder to get in from the civilian side.  He also said that going through the nuclear program would help my accomplish this in the least amount of time (even though it would still take a good 1.5 years).  So now I'm considering this option.  I have already graduated college with a degree and assume I could qualify for the nuclear program fairly easily since I almost joined after high school and was in line to go nuclear (if only I could go back...).  Anyways, I'm curious if any of you guys know how easy it is to transition from nuke school to a officer commissioning program and what my chances of acceptance are.  I guess I'm looking for any information I can get because I'm seriously considering this.

And yes, I am interested in this program as well, its more than just a means to an end.  I have always been very interested in electronics and would like to go the ET route.  How possible is this when it comes to "picking" my job?  I heard that you just do the job the Navy wants you to, or can I pick my rating?

Any info would be great, thanks.

[joephys]

DO NOT ENLIST JUST IN HOPES OF BECOMING AN OFFICER.  If you really want to be in the navy than enlisting is fine, but don't do it just because you hope to become an officer.  People do get selected to OCS from enlisted ranks, but don't count on it being a given.  They like to select E-5's and above because they have leadership experience in the navy.  Depending on your rating and test taking ability it can take a few years to make it there.  Personally, I would apply for ocs again next year.  Getting a masters degree can help you get selected to OCS.

If you really want to be in the navy, then enlisting is ok.  I believe that nukes do have a better chance of getting selected for commission than average.  Typically for non-nukes they give you a list of ratings to choose from and you get to pick from that.  I wasn't a nuke, so I am not 100% sure on this, but when I was in boot camp 5 years ago, the people who were going nuke didn't get to pick their ratings, they just got to pick that they were going nuke.  They found out their ratings when they got their orders to nuke school towards the end of boot camp.  (A few hopping for ET were disappointed when they were assigned MM.)

If you do enlist and try to become an officer, it can take a few tries to before you get accepted.

[JSin]

Of course the main reason I would be enlisting would be to be in the Navy, I'd just much rather be an officer rather than an enlisted man.  And since I already have my degree I think I deserve that.  But I would not join the Navy and commit for 6 years if I was sure I wouldn't be an officer in 2-3 years time.  And I don't know how realistic that expectation is.  I have thought about waiting and reapplying, but from the sounds of it I will never be accepted based on how competitive it is right now, and will continue to be.  And the thought of working on electronics is 20 times more appealing to me than going to school to get my Masters.

When I spoke to a Nuke program guy he told me that 96% of the nuke guys get picked up if they apply to officer programs, so it seems pretty close to a sure thing and everyone else I've talked to seems to agree, keep your nose clean and you'll get picked up.  I'm just hoping that its a short 2 year time frams until that happens.

[CharlieRock]

Here's the thing about OCS - its essentially a backfill for officer billets they can't fill through one of the traditional slots.  So, if we want to make a nuke officer, the first place we look is the traditional commissiong programs - USNA, NROTC, NECP, ECP.  Then we turn to NUPOC (Nuclear Program Officer Candidate)- which is available to highly qualified college students after their sophmore year.  This program selects for line officers, NR Engineers and DIOs (power school instructors).  After we exhaust all those sources, we turn to OCS.  So the problem with OCS is that the the needs of the Navy vary so the number of slots varies. To make your problem worse, you're right that the majority of officer program applicants in the nuc program get picked up BUT OCS has the worst selection rate of any of these programs (less than 50%).  To further compund your problem, you'll compete against the rest of the Fleet.  So when you're in the pipeline (for your first two years), you're competing against Fleet sailors who all ready have their dolphins/ESWS, qualified Watch Supervisor, got college degrees in engineering with 4.0 GPAs on shore duty, etc. 

So does all this mean that if you enlist you won't get OCS? Nope.  You very well might.  But don't expect it (you're not entitled to it just because you have a degree) and don't have an attitude if you don't get it.  My Nuclear Field A School class (9118-T), has 11 graduates.  4 of us had college degrees.  I was picked up for OCS in 1996 after being denied 3 times (2 in the pipeline and 1 in Fleet).  I spent almost 5 years as a blueshirt and I'm damn proud of it. 

[taterhead]

Several of your statements trouble me.

Of course the main reason I would be enlisting would be to be in the Navy, I'd just much rather be an officer rather than an enlisted man.  And since I already have my degree I think I deserve that.  But I would not join the Navy and commit for 6 years if I was sure I wouldn't be an officer in 2-3 years time.  And I don't know how realistic that expectation is.  I have thought about waiting and reapplying, but from the sounds of it I will never be accepted based on how competitive it is right now, and will continue to be.  And the thought of working on electronics is 20 times more appealing to me than going to school to get my Masters.

The logic DEGREE = OFFICER, NON DEGREE = ENLISTED is faulty.  There are plenty of us enlisted guys out here with degrees.

You cannot be SURE that you will be an officer in 2-3 years.  You cannot even be reasonably sure.  It's reasonable to think that you have a chance of getting picked up, but everyone who competes for OCS has a degree, and everyone has the chance.

When I spoke to a Nuke program guy he told me that 96% of the nuke guys get picked up if they apply to officer programs, so it seems pretty close to a sure thing and everyone else I've talked to seems to agree, keep your nose clean and you'll get picked up.  I'm just hoping that its a short 2 year time frams until that happens.

96% sounds far and away too high.  I mean WAY too high.  If it were that high, how in the heck would they man the fleet?  I am not sure who else you have spoken to, but I know good guys that have tried 3,4,or 5 times for officer programs, only to get passed over each time.  Two years in just enough time to get through power school and arrive at your first ship.  Most OCS applicants that are active duty will have time and experience on you, plus will have earned their degree on active duty, which is much more preferable to a board.

I don't say this to be condescending or smart-assed, but if you want a sure thing, go see an Army recruiter.  They are begging for willing bodies.

To echo what joephys stated earlier, DO NOT join the Navy on the assumption that you will be picked up for an officer program.  I have seen too many sailors do it, and end up miserable for 6 years.

[JSin]

To make your problem worse, you're right that the majority of officer program applicants in the nuc program get picked up BUT OCS has the worst selection rate of any of these programs (less than 50%).

Can you explain this to me some more, or what other officer programs there are...

96% sounds far and away too high.  I mean WAY too high.  If it were that high, how in the heck would they man the fleet?  I am not sure who else you have spoken to, but I know good guys that have tried 3,4,or 5 times for officer programs, only to get passed over each time.  Two years in just enough time to get through power school and arrive at your first ship.  Most OCS applicants that are active duty will have time and experience on you, plus will have earned their degree on active duty, which is much more preferable to a board.

96% isn't the acceptance rate for everyone applying to OCS, only those applying to an officer program out of nuke school.  Which would make sense because they seem to have some difficulty manning the nuclear field as its always "wide open" and gets a huge bonus.  These are the numbers my recruiter and the nuclear program people down here are telling me.  And I'm not looking to become a nuclear officer, I would probably transition at that point to aviation or intelligence.  From the sound of the last two posts though, it seems like the people I have talked to don't know what they are talking about or I'm confusing the information I am getting. 

[Rad Sponge]

I'll some up all the logic and reasoning like this:

1. If you desire to be an officer and you are a civilian, settlle for nothing less than an officer program.

2. Going enlisted as a backdoor into the commissioned ranks is:

a. An insult to the enlisted ranks and a waste of time to those charged with training and protecting you.
b. A very risky endeavor

3. If you can accept #2 and enlist anyways, be prepared to accept the chance that you wil be an enlisted nuke for 6 years of your life. Like was mentioned before, you have no idea of the manning projections and social dynamics that go into making officer billets. You may, as an enlisted nuke, do something, say something, or be something that will jeopardize your chances, but still obligate you to a 6 year stay. You may get injured, you may hate being a blue-shirt with a degree taking orders from someone without your academic credentials or an officer without your experience. Can you handle that? This is all reality.

Before you sign on the dotted line, think on it, sleep on it, go out and get blithering drunk, get a hangover, and during your recovery think on it some more. If you still think it is a good idea to enlist just to get officer, you have not drank enough.

[bmr176]

When I was in Power school in '97 100% of the guys who put in for a officer package got it.  This does not mean that this will happen now.  There are other factors that might be considered too.  Do you have a technical degree?  Also in '97 the only rate you could choose was MM ( Machinist Mate).  They do let you make a list of your preferences but I think that is just to give you a little warm fuzzy.  The rate you choose or get stuck with will not have much bearing on if you can get a program (i.e.  You do not have a better chance because your an ET than if you are a MM).  Unless needs of the navy some how influences this.  I don't know that for sure, just guessing.  Well thats my two cents.  Rad Sponge may have had the best advice.  If you going to go enlisted as a backdoor to a program don't.  Fight for the program as a civilian.

[joephys]

The other officer programs being referred too are ones where the navy sends people to school to get a degree, such as the academy, NROTC, STA-21 ect.  The only one which you could qualify for by already having a degree is OCS unless you get a commission as a doctor or lawyer in which case you go to fork and knife school (technically OIS).

If you are an enlisted nuke you can get a commission as something other than a nuke officer.  I know an LT that is currently an aviation maintenance duty officer that was an enlisted nuke on subs.  It is possible but rare.  From my experience, most aviation maintenance officers are LDO's (you have to be a PO1 eligible for chief and be shit hot to be selected for LDO). They also prefer people with aviation maintenance experience.

I don't know a whole lot about intel, pilot or NFO.

Some good points I have heard that I will re-affirm:
-Once you are in the navy, your navy experience will determine your selection to OCS, so you will be an going up against people who have years of naval experience with lots of quals.  Boards really like to see people that got degrees on their spare time while on active duty.
-There are chiefs out there (not a lot, but some) that do not like officers or anyone that wants to become one.  If you get a chief like that, he can keep you from going to OCS.  There are also the "good ole boys" clubs.
-There can be a lot of politics like the "good ole boys club".  The group of people who hang out with the LPO, they tend to get the best evals and recommendations.

I don't mean to be negative, I just want to let you know a few things to watch out for.  If you do enlist and want to become an officer here is my advice.

Quals quals quals, if you are on a carrier get your surface and aviation warfare pins.  Take on highly visible command level collateral duties so your name is well known (but don't mess them up or you will be a well known screw up).  Try and take on as much responsibility as you can.

[bsstacey]

If your degree is technical you may be eligable for DILDO (direct input LDO) It's not a "real" nuke officer, but you get to teach baby nukes at Power School. Also instead of OCS you go through knife and fork...less yelling, fewer Marines.

[War Eagle]

Can you explain this to me some more, or what other officer programs there are...

96% isn't the acceptance rate for everyone applying to OCS, only those applying to an officer program out of nuke school.  Which would make sense because they seem to have some difficulty manning the nuclear field as its always "wide open" and gets a huge bonus.  These are the numbers my recruiter and the nuclear program people down here are telling me.   

Jsin,
If you are still around, please PM me with the name and phone number of your recruiter.  I'm in the Navy as well and I would like to have a chat with him.

[visserjr]

If you are a civilian with a degree, who wants to be an officer, DO NOT ENLIST. If you want the experience of being an enlisted man prior to attempting to becoming an officer then do. There is one thing you can count on in the Navy. Nothing is garunteed until it happens. Also, there are plenty of enlisted men with degrees, who are damn good operators and leaders who don't get picked up for OCS. Also, remember rrecruiters are just that. They try to help you with your needs, but the needs of the Navy will always win the day. You are definitely at a crossroads with your life, and I wish you the best of luck.

John