Help | Contact Us
NukeWorker.com
NukeWorker Menu Brunswick

Poll

Brunswick

Above Average
18 (34.6%)
Average
15 (28.8%)
Below Average
19 (36.5%)

Total Members Voted: 29

Author Topic: Brunswick  (Read 121234 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.


Offline JJordan

  • Heavy User
  • ****
  • Posts: 454
  • Total likes: 0
  • Karma: 359
  • Gender: Male
  • Ther are two classes in this world!  First class and no class! Which are you?
Re: Union Organization at Brunswick
« Reply #101 on: Sep 07, 2006, 03:09 »
scrub, what plant are you reffering to? I hate to break it to you, but when I started as a house tech with about 15 yrs experience, I was paid 88% of a topped out Sr HP. It took me almost 6 years to get to 100%. This was without a union. I've already stated that 80% of all nukes were union. The only ones that have organized lately would be VC Summer, they voted the union back out. and DC Cook, which they haven't ratified a contract yet. I'll check on that though. I was curious to wich plant was rumored to have done this.
JJ

Offline alphadude

  • Very Heavy User
  • *****
  • Posts: 940
  • Total likes: 0
  • Karma: 503
  • Gender: Male
  • What are youuuu doin?
Re: Union Organization at Brunswick
« Reply #102 on: Sep 07, 2006, 04:06 »
that is a major advantage to union- every body gets trained equally and has the same chance for advancement to the next pay level.  golfing friends are not advanced because of the local managers whims-its a level playing field.  If you are qualified, senior you get the job. You can get passed by in a non-union plant.

while at Duke each tech got different pay rates - your lower pay rate helped pay another tech a high rate even though you were performing the same work- it takes the social club out of the pay scale.  at least with a union plant you know the rules- no secret files, no favorites, training is equal and pay grades are stable. (when you see pay ranges - beware)

now if you are a suck up golfer that goes to the same church as your boss- don't vote in the union!  its the southern way!!!
Read the Rio Grande Sun Crime page every Thursday! Its a hoot!

Yes We Can!

Offline Mike McFarlin

  • Safety/Chemist/Health Physicist
  • Very Heavy User
  • *****
  • Posts: 1539
  • Total likes: 3
  • Karma: 2145
  • Gender: Male
  • Lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way!
Re: Union Organization at Brunswick
« Reply #103 on: Sep 07, 2006, 05:06 »
A union would level the playing field for wages, but Southerners have a negative stigma concerning unions and probably always will. Must have been that little scuffle in 1860, huh.
"Duty is the sublimest word in our language. Do your duty in all things. You cannot do more. You should never wish to do less." General Robert E. Lee, C.S.A.

Offline scrub

  • Light User
  • **
  • Posts: 24
  • Total likes: 0
  • Karma: 5
  • Gender: Male
  • Tell Recruiters to use NukeWorker.com
Re: Union Organization at Brunswick
« Reply #104 on: Sep 07, 2006, 07:41 »
scrub, what plant are you reffering to? I hate to break it to you, but when I started as a house tech with about 15 yrs experience, I was paid 88% of a topped out Sr HP. It took me almost 6 years to get to 100%. This was without a union. I've already stated that 80% of all nukes were union. The only ones that have organized lately would be VC Summer, they voted the union back out. and DC Cook, which they haven't ratified a contract yet. I'll check on that though. I was curious to wich plant was rumored to have done this.
JJ


Not too sure.  The story (which it may very well be a story) was an oversight in the new contract.  The scale was changed to X% pay for X amount of years of service.  Well some folks were above the percentage of scale without having the "new" required time in rate per the contract.  So those folks got a pay cut to balance their pay level to their years of service.  It just so happened to be new hires/low seniority that took the hit.


Offline Carolina Jethro

  • Safety Manager
  • Heavy User
  • ****
  • Posts: 390
  • Total likes: 0
  • Karma: 847
  • Gender: Male
  • Why not us?
Re: Union Organization at Brunswick
« Reply #105 on: Sep 07, 2006, 09:43 »
JJ, I put in for a house tech job at a union plant and was told that my pay would be the same as someone coming out of school to start even with 20 years experience because of the union contract. I worked at a union plant before I got in the nuke business and was never really impressed. The stewards and management scratched each other's backs and all we really got was job security which you could be a slug and get fired only to file a grievance and come back to work two months later with back pay. Also with your shared resources you would have the same techs getting to go to other outages kinda like at Crystal River. Not saying union is all bad because it does do away with the gool ole boy promotions and cover ups like we know PE is famous for.    :) WWMD  8)

Offline ChiefRocscooter

  • Heavy User
  • ****
  • Posts: 317
  • Total likes: 0
  • Karma: 198
  • Tell Recruiters to use NukeWorker.com
Re: Union Organization at Brunswick
« Reply #106 on: Sep 08, 2006, 08:34 »
First let me say that as a career military type I have little experience with unions but that being said it has been almost all negitive, of course I see it from the end point as a customer not a member.  Let me list a few examples:
1) Every union shipyard I have ever been in/worked with has been more expensive, gotten less work done per time frame, and very less responsive to changes and problems.  One positive though was they tended to have more stability in thier work force unfortunatly this never translated into better or more timely work.
2) Ever have to work with civil service?? They are uniion too and while there are some good one most IMHO are not worth the cost we pay as tax payers to keep them employed. Ever see one get fired for incompetence, almost never happens cause it is next to impossible!

Looking in from the outside I see Unions as killing the opportuniuties for what we in the service call "Hot Runners".  They are the 5-10% that are better workers who will always excell above thier peers.  To me unions hold them back for sake of protecting these other 90-95%, in short if I out perform you then I should pass you up even if you have more time with a company.
Do'nt get me worng I think there are probably some good thing about unions, I am likely not in a position to see them, but they are socialistic in thier most basic (IMHO) form which in contrast to many of the concepts of captialism and democarcy.  (ok I am sure this will be painful but fire away)
Being adept at being adaptable I look forward to every new challenge!

Offline JJordan

  • Heavy User
  • ****
  • Posts: 454
  • Total likes: 0
  • Karma: 359
  • Gender: Male
  • Ther are two classes in this world!  First class and no class! Which are you?
Re: Union Organization at Brunswick
« Reply #107 on: Sep 08, 2006, 10:15 »
Oh , so many posts, so little time! :o I think the most important thing a union would bring would be the right of due process! 8) Yes I have seen unions use and or abuse this to protect substandard workers. This is not the unions fault, this is managements fault.There are ways to terminate substandard employees with senority. You just have to follow the ruledeliniated by the contract that everyone votes on and acepts, management and workers! ;) The problem seems to me, to be , you also have substandard supervision that doesn't want to do the work neccessary to make this happen. They find it much easier to blame the union. (but I have a warped point of perspective here, I've been both a shop steward, and supervision in a very stron union enviroment) More to come later!
Thanks,
JJ :P

Offline Broadzilla

  • Very Heavy User
  • *****
  • Posts: 3372
  • Total likes: 7
  • Karma: 2153
  • Best Band Detroit Music Awards, 5 Years Running!
Re: Union Organization at Brunswick
« Reply #108 on: Sep 08, 2006, 10:24 »
Ok a Union can NEVER hold back a hot runner from being promoted to supervisor or management because these are usually non union positions and selection criteria have nothing to do with the contract.

I'm pretty sure Carolina Jethro meant good old boy promotions to other Union Positions because any promotion outside the Union is beyond the Unions Scope.

Mike

Offline Mike_Koehler

  • Heavy User
  • ****
  • Posts: 261
  • Total likes: 0
  • Karma: 843
  • Gender: Male
  • I love nukeworker.com!!!!
Re: Union Organization at Brunswick
« Reply #109 on: Sep 08, 2006, 11:16 »
I have had 1 positive experience and 3 negative experiences with being in severeal unions. The lone positive was Commercial Nuke and was due in large part to the elected union officers being straight shooters and not forgetting who they are/were. All 3 negatives have involved work at a DOE facility with 4 different employers..... I was a shop steward at one time at this DOE facility and that experience was enough to bias me greatly against this particular union.                      To summarize:
1 Unions can do good things for workers stability and benefits
2 Unions can protect your job if you make a mistake
   
The above 2 are true with the right union leadership

3 Unions do use some of "your money" for their operating expenses
4 Unions can promote an attitude of worker sloth and indifference because all promotions and lay offs are seniority based
5 Unions can protect individuals who should not be protected making more work for those who really put in effort.

The bottom 3 are true when the Union leadership has forgotten where they came from.

With all that said what I would advise is to look at the most "political" Tech at my plant and decide if I would want that individual representing my opinion to management and vote accordingly.

Mike
"Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented
  immigrant" is like calling a drug
  dealer an "unlicensed Pharmacist."
unknown
"If you seal the borders and you stop giving federal benefits to people who are in the country illegally... many of them will simply go home."
Lou Barletta, Mayor of Hazelton, Pa.

Offline Mike_Koehler

  • Heavy User
  • ****
  • Posts: 261
  • Total likes: 0
  • Karma: 843
  • Gender: Male
  • I love nukeworker.com!!!!
Re: Union Contracts
« Reply #110 on: Sep 08, 2006, 11:22 »
It would depend on the circumstances.....I am currently union with IBEW but had no choice..... (except maybe not to accept the offered job). If I had to vote at a Commercial Nuke right now, I would probably vote yes.

Mike
"Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented
  immigrant" is like calling a drug
  dealer an "unlicensed Pharmacist."
unknown
"If you seal the borders and you stop giving federal benefits to people who are in the country illegally... many of them will simply go home."
Lou Barletta, Mayor of Hazelton, Pa.

Offline alphadude

  • Very Heavy User
  • *****
  • Posts: 940
  • Total likes: 0
  • Karma: 503
  • Gender: Male
  • What are youuuu doin?
Re: Union Organization at Brunswick
« Reply #111 on: Sep 08, 2006, 12:44 »
hot runners will always move up... good work does not go unrewarded..

just because you are in a union does not mean you are brain dead...its just another method.
Read the Rio Grande Sun Crime page every Thursday! Its a hoot!

Yes We Can!

Offline Nuclear NASCAR

  • Electrician
  • Forum Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 934
  • Total likes: 12
  • Karma: 3092
  • Gender: Male
  • Everyone needs a Harley. Mine's furry with 4 legs.
Re: Union Contracts
« Reply #112 on: Sep 08, 2006, 06:49 »
This is coming from the point of view of an almost 22 year union member so I will admit prejudice up front on the subject.  If they're trying to organize all I think that improves your position at the table.  I have a neighbor who works in an industrial setting who said that the a Union tried to organize them about 5 years ago and he was adamant against it because he believed the hype put forth by the company against the union.  He said that if he can ever get them to try again he'll help lead the charge because of the lies and broken promises experienced after the union was voted out.

My personal feeling is that it is overall a benefit to the workers covered. 
"There is much pleasure to be gained from useless knowledge."

  -Bertrand Russell

Offline Rennhack

Re: Union Contracts
« Reply #113 on: Sep 08, 2006, 07:49 »
It sounds like 1990 all  over again.
I did walk back then and was a strong supporter,but I dont think you will ever get the tech's to do that again.
You can't even get 2 techs to agree on a dose rate even.
Everybody only worried about themselves,we are a self centered bunch of HP'S and no one can say we arn't
The old saying again THERE'S NO I IN TEAM
there's also NO WE EITHER!
GOOD LUCK with that again

This topic is an extension of (http://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/topic,8889.0.html), and is not talking about Road Techs not sticking together on a wildcat strike.  I understand that the initial post is a little vague, but please try to keep this topic very specific and focused.  There are MANY posts already started about the contractor’s ill fated attempts at unionizing in the 70's, 80's, and 90's.  This thread isn’t about what you think OTHERS will do, just what YOU would do.  And why.

Thank you.
« Last Edit: Sep 08, 2006, 07:54 by Rennhack »

Offline Carolina Jethro

  • Safety Manager
  • Heavy User
  • ****
  • Posts: 390
  • Total likes: 0
  • Karma: 847
  • Gender: Male
  • Why not us?
Re: Union Organization at Brunswick
« Reply #114 on: Sep 08, 2006, 08:37 »
I'm pretty sure Carolina Jethro meant good old boy promotions to other Union Positions because any promotion outside the Union is beyond the Unions Scope.


 I was talking about promotions in a non- union plant. One thing I will add in reference to the union stewards and this is outside of nuclear power that this happened. Management wanted to get rid of bonus program we had and union stewards convinced us to agree to sell it to them... told us it was the best thing to do to keep company competitive. After the vote all the union stewards got placed in management positions. After a year of waiting for our check for our bonus program the plant's operation was moved and we got the can while the stewards that had been promoted got to transfer.Never did see that check. Kinda leaves a bad taste in your mouth. Lesson learned... don't trust management or unions!

Offline Carolina Jethro

  • Safety Manager
  • Heavy User
  • ****
  • Posts: 390
  • Total likes: 0
  • Karma: 847
  • Gender: Male
  • Why not us?
Re: Union Contracts
« Reply #115 on: Sep 08, 2006, 08:45 »
I would at Harris and Robinson... but would have to think about it at Brunswick. WWMD
« Last Edit: Sep 08, 2006, 08:46 by Carolina Jethro »

Offline Broadzilla

  • Very Heavy User
  • *****
  • Posts: 3372
  • Total likes: 7
  • Karma: 2153
  • Best Band Detroit Music Awards, 5 Years Running!
Re: Union Organization at Brunswick
« Reply #116 on: Sep 08, 2006, 09:01 »
OK Carolina Jethro! Thanks for the clarification. I just wanted to make sure that those who have no experience with Unions do realize Management can promote supervisors without regards to what the union thinks so the good ole boy network is still utilized at some places.

Mike

Online SloGlo

  • meter reader
  • Very Heavy User
  • *****
  • Posts: 5649
  • Total likes: 175
  • Karma: 2633
  • Gender: Male
  • trust me, i'm an hp
Re: Union Organization at Brunswick
« Reply #117 on: Sep 08, 2006, 09:47 »
re: promoting union people to management.  this is not always the best thing, and a lot of union people will turn down the offer.  when you go management, you lose the union contract and only have your contract, if available, to stand on.  you are the new kid on the management block, and when downsizing comes, you are the first out the door.  then, your resume is not very deep in the management area and other management jobs are harder to obtain.  some unions will not let you keep your card current while in a management position, so returning to the trenches may not be an option either.
quando omni flunkus moritati

dubble eye, dubble yew, dubble aye!

dew the best ya kin, wit watt ya have, ware yinze are!

Offline M1Ark

  • Heavy User
  • ****
  • Posts: 299
  • Total likes: 0
  • Karma: 293
  • Gender: Male
  • Tell Recruiters to use NukeWorker.com
Re: Union Contracts
« Reply #118 on: Sep 09, 2006, 03:32 »
I think you need to have a union at a nuke plant to help stabilize the work environment and help set some groundrules for basic management principles.  Having said that I am glad to no longer be in a union.  Unions are another layer of 'management' that has an ability to help or hinder your cause because they are run by people.  For every benefit to a union there is a hindrance.  My last year in the union management wanted to give operators $6k/year bonus because we were losing too many operators to other parts of the company.  The union turned it down because the union felt management had to give it to everybody and wanted to negotiate it.  The company said 'never mind' and needless to say - I was furious.  The union never asked us what the operators view was on this.  They could have said yes and then grieved it at a later time and got money for all.  They could have also lost the grievance but at least a portion of their constituents could have benefitted as a worse case scenario.  Just one example of many union snafus.  As much as we complain of management not knowing how to manage the same can be said for union management.  I am now in a management position and benefit from union wages and union benefits without dealing with the union garbage. Again, I believe in the unions and enforce the labor contract like I would any procedure on site because the viability of the union benefits my bottom line.  The job stewards and union leadership by and large do not receive any leadership training.  From my observation they make their decisions based on the current popular vote and sometimes shoot themselves in the foot because of it.  Management does this as well but they can get replaced and then their ideas can be taken back and replaced with what's right.  The union operates under the premise of 'past precedence' as a guiding principle.  So some stupid ideas can linger on for years.
« Last Edit: Sep 09, 2006, 03:42 by M1Ark »

Offline JJordan

  • Heavy User
  • ****
  • Posts: 454
  • Total likes: 0
  • Karma: 359
  • Gender: Male
  • Ther are two classes in this world!  First class and no class! Which are you?
Re: Union Contracts
« Reply #119 on: Sep 09, 2006, 08:30 »
 M1Ark,
Quote
Unions are another layer of 'management' that has an ability to help or hinder your cause because they are run by people.
You are one of thoose people, if you the "union" adopt a policiy in your contract that hinders you. Something is very wrong, and you need to change it by due process. Yes it is run by people and they are human, subject to the same tendencies as management, so when electing union officials, you need to be carefull to select the best individuals you can. Again if you find you've made a wrong selection, change it. Learn from your mistakes and go on.
Quote
My last year in the union management wanted to give operators $6k/year bonus
Rule #1 always, alway, always take the money. It's admirable that the union wanted to bless everyone with the 6K, but this would be a big chunk of change for the company, and they felt that it wasn't warented for everyone. They were trying possibly to adjust substandard wages for there operators, and the union should have accomadated them. You as a member, should have insisted on a meeting and a vote to modify the contract to allow this, and then try to get some extra for some of the other members. Maybe not 6K, but they had the candy store open, and a few pieces is better than none!
Quote
The job stewards and union leadership by and large do not receive any leadership training.
Again this is the fault of the union, this is some of what your dues are for, if you don't have enough money for training, you need to raise the dues a little bit. The union I was and still am a member of, offer me thousands of $'s of training annualy for free, and I took every bit of it! (See rule #1)
Quote
From my observation they make their decisions based on the current popular vote
  I hope this is always true , because this is how a union is supposed to work, the majority rules! Sometimes union officials make decisions based on personal prefferances, and this is when they needs to be replaced. All important decisions should come to a vote, if you don't vote , you have no say so don't complain, accept the fact you didn't do your part. Again, if you find it wasn't the correct decision vote again and change it![/quote]The union operates under the premise of 'past precedence' as a guiding principle.  So some stupid ideas can linger on for years.[/quote]It's easier to operate with past precedence than establishing a new precedence. I would hope that your union official ony use past precedence when it is beneficial to the group, and work to establish a new precedence if warranted. Gee this is almost exacty how the US legal system operates. Oh, and the unions are supposedly based on the principals of democracy, 1 person, 1 vote. Majority rules, don't vote, don't whine! If you don't pay, you don't play! (Right to work States) M1Ark, hope you don't think, I'm bashing you, cause I'm not, more like the union you used to belong to. I'm glad to see that you recognize the financial advantage it also affords to management, wish you were here at my plant, we could work together and get a lot of things done to benefit everyone! Thanks for your comments, keep them comming!
JJ
« Last Edit: Sep 09, 2006, 08:40 by JJordan »

Offline JJordan

  • Heavy User
  • ****
  • Posts: 454
  • Total likes: 0
  • Karma: 359
  • Gender: Male
  • Ther are two classes in this world!  First class and no class! Which are you?
Re: Union Organization at Brunswick
« Reply #120 on: Sep 09, 2006, 05:11 »
Well we here have 3 classes of HP's Tech 1, 2, and 3, 1 being the highest, so management would have a little control here. Depending on what level of slot they post. As I said, I came here as a tech 1 at 88% of scale. My supervisor assured me he would bring me up fast! It only took 6 years. Maybe I should have had it in writing, like maybe a contract. The union will stipulate how much and for how long in the contract, it will be the same for everybody. The plant managers nephew won't get a break, thats every bit as fair as the deal I got. You know right up front what you are signing for, if you don't like it, stay where you are. It's the same for mechanics, Ops, I&C, ect. I think it's a better system, but I'm just whinning cause I know CP&L hired 5 other techs that day and some got more than I did. Wait maybe some got less too? I'm so confused! :P
Thanks,
JJ
« Last Edit: Sep 09, 2006, 09:01 by JJordan »

Offline JJordan

  • Heavy User
  • ****
  • Posts: 454
  • Total likes: 0
  • Karma: 359
  • Gender: Male
  • Ther are two classes in this world!  First class and no class! Which are you?
Re: Union Contracts
« Reply #121 on: Sep 09, 2006, 08:54 »
Jethro,
Why Harris, and Robinson, and not Brunswick? It has changed here, it's not like you remember. :( WWMD, He signed a card! ;)

Offline Carolina Jethro

  • Safety Manager
  • Heavy User
  • ****
  • Posts: 390
  • Total likes: 0
  • Karma: 847
  • Gender: Male
  • Why not us?
Re: Union Contracts
« Reply #122 on: Sep 09, 2006, 11:15 »
Jethro,
Why Harris, and Robinson, and not Brunswick? It has changed here, it's not like you remember. :( WWMD, He signed a card! ;)

Hate to hear that... Brunswick was a great place... but I reckon it was only a matter of time before intimidation and fear replaced trust and stability... like at previous mentioned plants. Good Luck!

Offline Mike McFarlin

  • Safety/Chemist/Health Physicist
  • Very Heavy User
  • *****
  • Posts: 1539
  • Total likes: 3
  • Karma: 2145
  • Gender: Male
  • Lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way!
Re: Brunswick
« Reply #123 on: Oct 10, 2006, 03:03 »
Paul E, you will like it.
"Duty is the sublimest word in our language. Do your duty in all things. You cannot do more. You should never wish to do less." General Robert E. Lee, C.S.A.

Offline Dream Tarheel

  • Sr. Health Physics Technician
  • Moderate User
  • ***
  • Posts: 133
  • Total likes: 0
  • Karma: 214
  • Gender: Male
  • Never Happy Until Happy With Yourself!
Re: Brunswick
« Reply #124 on: Oct 14, 2006, 11:33 »
You can also stay in Shallotte and take the helicopter to work everyday.
OUR GREATEST GLORY IS NOT IN NEVER FALLING,
BUT IN RISING EVERYTIME WE FALL.

WHAT IF IT ALL ENDED TOMORROW!

I NEVER KNEW LOVE, I JUST KNOW THE SOUND IT MAKES WHEN IT LIES!

DIRT NAP = < 12 YR

 


NukeWorker ™ is a registered trademark of NukeWorker.com ™, LLC © 1996-2020 All rights reserved.
All material on this Web Site, including text, photographs, graphics, code and/or software, are protected by international copyright/trademark laws and treaties. Unauthorized use is not permitted. You may not modify, copy, reproduce, republish, upload, post, transmit or distribute, in any manner, the material on this web site or any portion of it. Doing so will result in severe civil and criminal penalties, and will be prosecuted to the maximum extent possible under the law.
Privacy Statement | Terms of Use | Code of Conduct | Spam Policy | Advertising Info | Contact Us | Forum Rules | Password Problem?