Women in the Nuclear field

[Megz89]

Hello!
   I am currently enlisted in the Navy and have to take the NAPT as soon as possible. I was just wondering if there was any females in the nuclear field on this forum or if anyone knew of any. You see, my recruiter has never put a female in as a nuke and he hasn't known any other recruiter to put one in. Not to say there hasn't been any...I would like to talk to someone who has already gone through everything and can give me some tips.
Thanks!!

Meg

[bethlehemstarr]

Hi Meg,
Do you have any questions in specific?  Or do you just want a general overview on Nuclear Navy life from a woman's perspective?
Just message me, and I'd love to help you out.  I was a Navy Nuke, am now working in a civilian plant, and still am a woman:)

[dks860]

I was a Navy Nuke also (and still a female).  I've been out since 1989 though, so not sure how much help I could be.

[Fermi2]

sarahm86  Is currently at nuke or A School. Try asking her.

Mike

[bethlehemstarr]

Just wanted to mention that I was in the Navy from 2000-2005.  And I do still talk to quite a few people that are still in- so if I don't know something, I do have some resources to ask.

Good Luck!

It was a really good life for me.

[redimsok]

Howdy meg,

i'm not female but i AM at "A" school right now, there are females here of course and there are more than there used to be, but the ratio is still about 24-1 male-female. however on that note, the command stresses very hard equal-opportunity and in fact despite being such a high ratio, about 1/3 of the classes have female class leaders.

The only real big difference is that as of now women are still not allowed on subs, however, there are a couple admirals who are trying to get it approved and everyone here is pretty much in agreement that its going to happen in the next 5-10 years. Well, good luck in the navy and as a nuke. The training is intense but its worth it.

[Marlin]

The only real big difference is that as of now women are still not allowed on subs, however, there are a couple admirals who are trying to get it approved and everyone here is pretty much in agreement that its going to happen in the next 5-10 years.

The effort to assign women to subs is a very controversial subject and has been hotly debated over the last thirty years. Even the Russians who were far in advance of the US in integrating their military never placed women on subs. The Danes, Swedes, and Australians all have women assigned to their boats, but their subs are primarily brown water, meaning coastal defense. There are still obstacles to be overcome to place women on our boats. Capability is not one of the issues except for a few old dinosaurs. Limited facilities, long isolated patrols, and crew stress levels are the most commonly discussed problems. On a sub when something new is added something has to go, in addition to that there will be logistical problems not encountered on surface ships such as the need for "Hot Racking" (2 or 3 sailors sharing one bed). We had spare portable beds that were placed on the torpedo handling racks for junior personell making the torpedo room a berthing space and a work space. I don't see this happening on the Attack boats, perhaps the new SSGN's with different commitments and much more room may be a different story, we shall see. There was a military advisory panel that was actively trying to integrate women into all parts of the military, their efforts to staff women on subs was not effective.

[jmtedrick]

I was a machinist mate in the nuclear field. I have been out of the navy for three years. When I was enlisting, there were two females including myself who enlisted around the same time in my area. When I went to boot camp, I was the only female nuke in my division and sister division. At A school, I was in a class with three females including me. At power school, the section I was in had three including me as well. There were about 12 sections in my power school class and each section had atleast 1 or two females. The guy that mentioned the number of females in his A school now sounds about right. I guess what I am saying is you will more than likely have several women in your current stage in training. When I was in Charleston we had one building for all the females, shortly before I left they were trying to integrate the barracks. I never was without female companionship. As for your recruiter I would think he would be thrilled to help enlist a female in the nuclear field. Hope this helps.

[Beta_effect]

I would think this is a great opportunity for women in the field. I got out in 1984, and generally women nukes went to tenders, shipyards, or were prototype pickups. I also vaguely recall some being assigned to aircraft carriers. In either case the Navy nuclear field is a great launch point for a career in the commercial industry with or without college, but most important, if you do choose to get a degree, the future is wide open. You can stick with the commercial end, go into research at a national lab, or go premed and enter the medical field. Woman are still under represented in the engineering fields and it is still wide open-lots of opportunity out there...so go for it. It might be an interesting time wading through the male BS, but that is not tolerated much anymore, so hopefully you won't have to put up with it. In the engineering field, I have found that a person's sex or sexual orientation does not even come up-you are judged on whether or not you know what you are doing. Some of the best engineers I have known have been women...sort of deflating on the ego, but the truth is the truth...so go for it! I would do as suggested and talk with some of the females associated with this site, and get their input. I am sure none of them would be sorry for sticking with the nuke field.

[Sejik]

I talked my sister into joining the Navy... then into becoming a Nuke. Erm, yea... She's going to kill me. Heh.

She's in boot camp right now and should be arriving at A school soon enough.

[Finalman]

I talked my sister into joining the Navy... then into becoming a Nuke. Erm, yea... She's going to kill me. Heh.

She's in boot camp right now and should be arriving at A school soon enough.

I'm talking my sister into the same trip right now too, but if I get her to join as a nuke then all I need is one more and I get a NAM (that's what i've heard)

[Wirebiter]

I'm talking my sister into the same trip right now too, but if I get her to join as a nuke then all I need is one more and I get a NAM (that's what i've heard)

.........wow........just ......wow.

[LaFeet]

.........wow........just ......wow.

Thats almost as good as the FT2 getting a NAM for selling hotdogs while the nukes were inhull (NEWCON) on the Maryland.....theres nothing merry about MARYLAND

[Navnu]

I believe the USS Florida, SSGN, is currently being retrofitted to take 10 females...6 coners, 3 nukes, and a JO, as well as the other retrofits that are being done.

[mlslstephens]

Thats almost as good as the FT2 getting a NAM for selling hotdogs while the nukes were inhull (NEWCON) on the Maryland.....theres nothing merry about MARYLAND

Timete deum solum et icnominiam   

[deltarho]

I cannot imagine women on submarines.  I really have a hard time believing with all the problems on the surface ships, that they are still in play there.  I am not a sexist, but I am a red-blooded American male.  So were the others on my last ship, which had one female officer...

For those that remember Great Lakes and the male to female ratio of the late 70s and early 80's (1:80), any girl (WAV, at the time) had at least 4 or 5 active suitors--even without beer goggles (if you get my drift).

That being said, this particular officer was party to three marriage break ups, and was finally removed when she was found with--the horror of it all--an enlisted man.  At least in that situation she waited to hit port and get a hotel room.

So, if males cannot be professional enough military men to wait for a liberty port--and females are guilty,too.  Then imagine a more finite space, with infinite amount of time on your hands, as found on a submarine.

Personally, I liked getting the sodas off the tenders when they were around.  The mess cranks were particularly friendly...and I found the anchor w/ star a strong "chick magnet" that could have easily gotten me in trouble if I wasn't just "passing through."   I actually used an emote?

[mlslstephens]

I cannot imagine women on submarines.  I really have a hard time believing with all the problems on the surface ships, that they are still in play there.  I am not a sexist, but I am a red-blooded American male.  So were the others on my last ship, which had one female officer...

For those that remember Great Lakes and the male to female ratio of the late 70s and early 80's (1:80), any girl (WAV, at the time) had at least 4 or 5 active suitors--even without beer goggles (if you get my drift).

That being said, this particular officer was party to three marriage break ups, and was finally removed when she was found with--the horror of it all--an enlisted man.  At least in that situation she waited to hit port and get a hotel room.

So, if males cannot be professional enough military men to wait for a liberty port--and females are guilty,too.  Then imagine a more finite space, with infinite amount of time on your hands, as found on a submarine.

Personally, I liked getting the sodas off the tenders when they were around.  The mess cranks were particularly friendly...and I found the anchor w/ star a strong "chick magnet" that could have easily gotten me in trouble if I wasn't just "passing through."   I actually used an emote?

I know this is going to anger some of the "guys" especially in my state, but I must offer the other side here.  Being an active duty submariner who is happily married and the father of three, I think the submarine force is ready for females. 

As a country, we have proven that where we previously thought women shouldn't be/do, once done, they proved worthy.  A few cases in point:  We once believed women shouldn't vote (some still believe that way  ),
there was a time that women didn't belong in the workplace (stay at home and have my dinner ready when I come home),  a time when women didn't serve in the military and especially not in combat situations and places where women couldn't study (Citadel, service academies) etc.  There will definately be a transitional period once females begin to serve on submarines but so what, we will get through that as well. 

We can't say that marriages will fail if ladies start working on subs because in case you haven't notices, marriages are failing now, and have failed in the past.  I'm sure there will be a few cases of some extra curricular activities, but we have had those forever...just go back to David and Basheba.

I've come full circle on this argument.  I once was totally against the idea.  We need to get over it, and figure out how to move on.  Here is the real question.   What do we do when we have our first female submariner retire from the service?  Do we give her husband dolphins and call him "man of the sea" and is he entitled to all courtesies and privledges of a submariner?

[navytwinmom]

Very interesting subject...both women in the nuke field and women on Subs.

NaVLI4 is right there have been a lot of things women were not allowed to do and now we do them. If it had been the 1800's when i got pregnant out of wedlock gosh only knows what would have happened. things have changed....i am not endorsing having children as a single parent but at least i did not get stoned to death for it...LOL

I personally think women should be allowed to do what they want and if they want to go sub then let them go. I find it funny sometimes the reasons men give for women not being allowed on a sub. Hot racking, sexual tenstion ect. You're all shipmates and should treat each other with the same respect regardless of gender.

On the other hand if she wants to be on a sub then she needs to deal with it...not request exceptions because she is female. If she is tough enough to be on a sub then she needs to deal...not play the "girl card" when it suits her. This is what I think is the biggest hurdle to get over for women in combat or subs....women want to be equal but ask for things becuse they are women.

all hate mail regarding this post may be sent to www.itwasjustmyoption.org 

[mlslstephens]

Should women be drafted?,...Should they be compelled to sign up for selective service?,...

The penalty for not signing up can be a fine of up to $250,000 or a prison sentence of up to five years,...

This debate has been raging for over twenty years since Carter reinstated the Selective Service act in 1980.  The Supreme Court has upheld the decision to keep women from registering in the past and I don't think they would touch the topic again.  They have much bigger fish to fry (like should Britney keep her kids?  what constitutes a gay proposition in the restroom? etc.).
There is much more to this decision.  They can't just "turn on" female registration.  There would have to be money for expanding the registration program.  This would require legislative action and operational and budgetary changes.  Selective Service System could register women if its authorizing legislation, the Military Selective Service Act, is amended to allow registering women.

[Marlin]

I personally think women should be allowed to do what they want and if they want to go sub then let them go. I find it funny sometimes the reasons men give for women not being allowed on a sub. Hot racking, sexual tenstion ect. You're all shipmates and should treat each other with the same respect regardless of gender.

On the other hand if she wants to be on a sub then she needs to deal with it...not request exceptions because she is female. If she is tough enough to be on a sub then she needs to deal...not play the "girl card" when it suits her. This is what I think is the biggest hurdle to get over for women in combat or subs....women want to be equal but ask for things becuse they are women.

Problems of women on subs go well beyond "if a girl wants to" many Navy's have women on board now, but they are "brown water" Navies (coastal defense). Losing a crew member in a critical rate can degrade the operability of a ship with a small crew, especially one that may take a long time qualify a watch stander, you can't ask a women not to get pregnent. Extended isolated duty takes a toll on a crew as is, granted this alone is not a good reason. Hot racking with male crew members? Some of this hot racking is men sleeping on torpedo racks in the open with no privacy. Modifications on a sub usually requires something else must go, there is very little room to spare. If you make accommocations for women on board are you then locked into a percentage of women on board? This leads us right back to the availability of critical ratings. This is a subject that I have seen debated in length on Submarine Veterans web sites. Most believe that it will eventually happen but possibly not in the near future.

[mlslstephens]

Losing a crew member in a critical rate can degrade the operability of a ship with a small crew, especially one that may take a long time qualify a watch stander, you can't ask a women not to get pregnent. Extended isolated duty takes a toll on a crew as is, granted this alone is not a good reason. Hot racking with male crew members? Some of this hot racking is men sleeping on torpedo racks in the open with no privacy. Modifications on a sub usually requires something else must go, there is very little room to spare. If you make accommocations for women on board are you then locked into a percentage of women on board? This leads us right back to the availability of critical ratings.

You are absolutely right about losing a crew member in a critical rate.  I don't know your background, but we lose guys all the time to different situations.  As submariners, we deal with this all the time.

The hot racking issue...not an issue on tridents and SSGNs.  Think outside of the box.  You are clearly thinking of all the reasons why we shouldn't have women on subs as opposed to coming up with ways to overcome some obstacles both real and perceived.

[illegalsmile]

, you can't ask a women not to get pregnent. .

this has been a fairly serious problem with some Army units.....female sodiers getting pregnent when it's time to deploy and then aborting. I do beg to differ, though. You can ask a woman to take measures to ensure she doesn't become pregnent and enforce the agreement. The UCMJ does make 'malingering' a crime. It would just be a matter of making a clear-cut contractual agreement before the training starts and enforcing it.

[Marlin]

The hot racking issue...not an issue on tridents and SSGNs.  Think outside of the box.  You are clearly thinking of all the reasons why we shouldn't have women on subs as opposed to coming up with ways to overcome some obstacles both real and perceived.

Very true but then it is a very small community and personnel rotation would still be involved.

I don't know your background, but we lose guys all the time to different situations.  As submariners, we deal with this all the time.

I served on two Fast attacks in the 70's and am currently the Base Commander for the Smoky Mountain Submarine Veterans in Knoxville Tn.

[mlslstephens]

Very true but then it is a very small community and personnel rotation would still be involved.

I served on two Fast attacks in the 70's and am currently the Base Commander for the Smoky Mountain Submarine Veterans in Knoxville Tn.

Small world...do you sing rocky top in your sleep?  I grew up just south of K-town (WIMZ rockin it out in the 80s).

[Marlin]

I'm a transplant (Damn Yankee), and have not been assimilated to the Vols (Borg) yet. The enthusiasm for UT is very catching though. Pretty country and very nice people.

[YO!]

I cannot imagine women on submarines.  I really have a hard time believing with all the problems on the surface ships, that they are still in play there.  I am not a sexist, but I am a red-blooded American male.  So were the others on my last ship, which had one female officer...

For those that remember Great Lakes and the male to female ratio of the late 70s and early 80's (1:80), any girl (WAV, at the time) had at least 4 or 5 active suitors--even without beer goggles (if you get my drift).

That being said, this particular officer was party to three marriage break ups, and was finally removed when she was found with--the horror of it all--an enlisted man.  At least in that situation she waited to hit port and get a hotel room.

So, if males cannot be professional enough military men to wait for a liberty port--and females are guilty,too.  Then imagine a more finite space, with infinite amount of time on your hands, as found on a submarine.

Personally, I liked getting the sodas off the tenders when they were around.  The mess cranks were particularly friendly...and I found the anchor w/ star a strong "chick magnet" that could have easily gotten me in trouble if I wasn't just "passing through."   I actually used an emote?

<sub>In response:

It is sad that we still live in a world where intelligence is considered gender specific. It is also sad when the perception of my performance potential is determined by my appearance. In '94, I completed an AS in Nuclear Engineering Technology with a double minor, Reactor Operations and Health Physics. I became a college intern At Savannah River Site. Very few people managed to complete the courses and of the hand full that did only a few were women. I was in the top of the class. I have continued with my education in other forms.

I have worked in facilities under the Department of Energy and under the Nuclear Regulatory Commission. I have worked as an HP, an RP, a Nuclear Criticality Safety Assessor, and worked in engineering running codes for Radiation Shielding Transport and Nuclear Criticality Safety material mass storage. I have always behaved in a very professional manner. However, most people focused on my looks and offered me employment based on what was on the outside rather that taking the time to evaluate me based on my knowledge and capabilities. Those offers I declined.

When I work, I focus on the job. I have been informed by males on the job that on occasions, there were males in the company that felt threatened by me. I was informed that they felt threatened because I actually comprehend how it all works. The few males that felt threatened were able to create career blocks and limiting advancement. To make matters worse women try to block women too. While I have met some really good men and women in the Nuclear Industry and have watched it evolve over from 1980 to the present it still has a lot off changing to do. Not all women play in the work place. There are serious females just as there are serious males. There are intelligent females just as there are intelligent males.

If there are questions about a woman's ability to defend, maim or kill. Maybe you should read the news paper sometimes. As far as self control, if men and women are having sex in the work place it is a two-sided issue and should be resolved as such. It is past time to fairly integrate the work place across the board.</sub>

[Samabby]

Excuse me while I clean up the serious attitude leak. Yes, it shows through rather clearly. 

[Marlin]

<sub>In response:

It is sad that we still live in a world where intelligence is considered gender specific. It is also sad when the perception of my performance potential is determined by my appearance. In '94, I completed an AS in Nuclear Engineering Technology with a double minor, Reactor Operations and Health Physics. I became a college intern At Savannah River Site. Very few people managed to complete the courses and of the hand full that did only a few were women. I was in the top of the class. I have continued with my education in other forms.

I have worked in facilities under the Department of Energy and under the Nuclear Regulatory Commission. I have worked as an HP, an RP, a Nuclear Criticality Safety Assessor, and worked in engineering running codes for Radiation Shielding Transport and Nuclear Criticality Safety material mass storage. I have always behaved in a very professional manner. However, most people focused on my looks and offered me employment based on what was on the outside rather that taking the time to evaluate me based on my knowledge and capabilities. Those offers I declined.

When I work, I focus on the job. I have been informed by males on the job that on occasions, there were males in the company that felt threatened by me. I was informed that they felt threatened because I actually comprehend how it all works. The few males that felt threatened were able to create career blocks and limiting advancement. To make matters worse women try to block women too. While I have met some really good men and women in the Nuclear Industry and have watched it evolve over from 1980 to the present it still has a lot off changing to do. Not all women play in the work place. There are serious females just as there are serious males. There are intelligent females just as there are intelligent males.

If there are questions about a woman's ability to defend, maim or kill. Maybe you should read the news paper sometimes. As far as self control, if men and women are having sex in the work place it is a two-sided issue and should be resolved as such. It is past time to fairly integrate the work place across the board.</sub>

I don't think anyone questioned the intellegence or capability of women to serve on subs not their capability to perform in battle. delatarho's post is a bit negative but your reply is not responsive to the specifics of his post. Please don't take offense as I'm trying to moderate and gently nudge this thread away from what I see as a squabble that does not really have to happen.

[SloGlo]

persunally, i really don't care about a person's gender as much as there work while at werk.  i have worked in all male groups and in mixed groups.  both were fine, both got work dun.  did eye ever work with wimmen who sluffed off on da work by batting their......ayes?  shur.  did i ever work with guys who slept away da shift?  shur.  i've reported to women 'n i've had women report to me.  der's slugs 'n sluggers.  its a mentality thing, not a genderality thing.  dang, eye thaught we got aweigh frum this stuff inna 60s. 

[LaFeet]

You are absolutely right about losing a crew member in a critical rate.  I don't know your background, but we lose guys all the time to different situations.  As submariners, we deal with this all the time.

The hot racking issue...not an issue on tridents and SSGNs.  Think outside of the box.  You are clearly thinking of all the reasons why we shouldn't have women on subs as opposed to coming up with ways to overcome some obstacles both real and perceived.

Been to sea with one female on a Trident.  She was allotted the forward head and one bunkroom as her own. A loss of nine racks, two  showers, four sinks and three toilets.
I am not against women serving on combat craft.... wish they were doing it while I was in.  But the craft needs to be built from the ground up t accommodate the women...not hastily modified to Allow them to exist on board. 

[roadhard]

_{It is also sad when the perception of my performance potential is determined by my appearance.  - - - - However, most people focused on my looks and offered me employment based on what was on the outside rather that taking the time to evaluate me based on my knowledge and capabilities. Those offers I declined.}

I hope you see the point here, and see that no malice is involved, but I noticed you put your best face forward here too. And you can not honestly expect anyone to believe that, give the choice of focus between your resume and your face, that that scale tips in favor of the resume.

BTW. I'm single and not doing anything Friday night. It's a full moon!

[Marlin]

I hope you see the point here, and see that no malice is involved, but I noticed you put your best face forward here too. And you can not honestly expect anyone to believe that, give the choice of focus between your resume and your face, that that scale tips in favor of the resume.

BTW. I'm single and not doing anything Friday night. It's a full moon!

Please stay on topic this is not E-Harmony. 

[Mike_Koehler]

Is this a "women in the navy" or a "women in the nuclear field" thread? As a current nuclear worker, I must say that I have no problem with fellow nukeworkers regardless of Race, Gender, Religion or Orientation as long as they pull their weight..... As a former Navy person all I can say is would the following have happened in an all male unit?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7055922.stm

Any time you mix armed troops and personnal relationships bad things can and do happen. This just gives our armed forces the proverbial black eye in the international relations arena. And yes, I saw plenty of problems with all male bases and the local populace in my time in but that was a different story in that we didn't have service members shooting service members on-base.

I'm not against females in the military or even in combat....... just trying to show what things  our leaders need to think about when they start assigning females to non-traditional billets.

Mike

[xobxdoc]

Is this a "women in the navy" or a "women in the nuclear field" thread? As a current nuclear worker, I must say that I have no problem with fellow nukeworkers regardless of Race, Gender, Religion or Orientation as long as they pull their weight..... As a former Navy person all I can say is would the following have happened in an all male unit?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7055922.stm

Any time you mix armed troops and personnal relationships bad things can and do happen. This just gives our armed forces the proverbial black eye in the international relations arena. And yes, I saw plenty of problems with all male bases and the local populace in my time in but that was a different story in that we didn't have service members shooting service members on-base.

I'm not against females in the military or even in combat....... just trying to show what things  our leaders need to think about when they start assigning females to non-traditional billets.

Mike

What's your solution Mike? It's easy to point out problems. So come up with an answer to the problem. And yes, I think an act of violence like this can happen in an all-male situation. Maybe not the exact same scenario but violence happens all the time. This particular base has 3000 people assigned to it. It's like a small city like a carrier is. Odds are something bad will eventually happen. This instance you point out seems like a rare occurance. I don't think the problem is with the females. It's with the psychos that can't handle a little rejection.

[Marlin]

Is this a "women in the navy" or a "women in the nuclear field" thread?

Started by an new nuke in the Navy pipeline looking for input preferably by other women who are in the Navy nuke pipeline as to what to expect. I hope she has been PMed some valuable advice.

[Cycoticpenguin]

Id just like to give you some recent trends I've noticed in my overly long tour through the Nuke pipeline.

In A school, lots of relation ships form. I highly suggest you stay away from it. Its a very "high school" mentality in A school, unfortunately, so you need to do your part in keeping the work place proffesional. A typical thing that happens : Guy A meets Girl A. They date for 3-5 weeks, and break up. Next thing, Guy/Girl A is telling guys/gals B-Z "What a 'insert noun here' he/she is!" leading to unproffesionallism at the work place.

Powerschool is a little better, based purely on the fact that there is so little time, and some amount of comraderie has been built up.

Prototype... Ahh... prototype.... Im not going to touch this one on personal reasons.


The navy boils down to what you make of it, nothing more, nothing less. Good luck!!

-Jordan

[Already Gone]

I hope you see the point here, and see that no malice is involved, but I noticed you put your best face forward here too. And you can not honestly expect anyone to believe that, give the choice of focus between your resume and your face, that that scale tips in favor of the resume.

BTW. I'm single and not doing anything Friday night. It's a full moon!

You could not possibly say anything to reinforce the point better.  We, men, are horribly challenged when it comes to working around women.  During the few conversations that I have had with YO!, it was always I who seemed to be the dumb one.  It doesn't bother me that she, and many other women, have me beat hands-down in the confidence and ability area.

The problem, as I see it, is not what women can or cannot do.  Nor is it what women in the work place will or will not do.  The problem is that the minute we se a pretty face at work, we stop being professional working men and start being just men.

There is not a damned thing wrong or contradictory about YO! posting an avatar that depicts her as an attractive woman.  This is not a front, it is just a reality that is very hard for us to deal with.  If she were plain or unattractive - in other words: not threatening - she would be so much easier to work with.  But, does that mean that she is supposed to turn into something that she is not just to get along?  That's crap.

I admit that I turn to a puddle of melted Jello around attractive women.  Admitting the problem is the first step toward recovery.  The next step is to try to overcome the problem.  I suggest this: when talking to a woman at work, about work, listen to what she is saying and forget about what she is wearing.  That is not to say that you can't have a social life which includes your coworkers.  Most couples meet at school or work.  I'm just saying that there needs to be a distinction between the social and the professional - and that distinction needs to start with us guys concentrating on the work when at work.  It is difficult to do.  Nobody knows better than I do how difficult - but at least I try to ACT like I can handle it.

Maybe it would be a little easier to focus on the resume if you take your eyes off her face (or whatever part you are looking at) long enough to actually read the resume.

[McBride]

I admit that I turn to a puddle of melted Jello around attractive women.  Admitting the problem is the first step toward recovery. 

Who wants to recover?  

[Camella Black]

You could not possibly say anything to reinforce the point better.  We, men, are horribly challenged when it comes to working around women.  During the few conversations that I have had with YO!, it was always I who seemed to be the dumb one.  It doesn't bother me that she, and many other women, have me beat hands-down in the confidence and ability area.

The problem, as I see it, is not what women can or cannot do.  Nor is it what women in the work place will or will not do.  The problem is that the minute we se a pretty face at work, we stop being professional working men and start being just men.

There is not a damned thing wrong or contradictory about YO! posting an avatar that depicts her as an attractive woman.  This is not a front, it is just a reality that is very hard for us to deal with.  If she were plain or unattractive - in other words: not threatening - she would be so much easier to work with.  But, does that mean that she is supposed to turn into something that she is not just to get along?  That's crap.

I admit that I turn to a puddle of melted Jello around attractive women.  Admitting the problem is the first step toward recovery.  The next step is to try to overcome the problem.  I suggest this: when talking to a woman at work, about work, listen to what she is saying and forget about what she is wearing.  That is not to say that you can't have a social life which includes your coworkers.  Most couples meet at school or work.  I'm just saying that there needs to be a distinction between the social and the professional - and that distinction needs to start with us guys concentrating on the work when at work.  It is difficult to do.  Nobody knows better than I do how difficult - but at least I try to ACT like I can handle it.

Maybe it would be a little easier to focus on the resume if you take your eyes off her face (or whatever part you are looking at) long enough to actually read the resume.

Spoken like a true gentleman, and a very well educated one at that (and I don't mean school). I don't know if your parents, female siblings or better half had anything to do with you attitude towards women, but I applaud them loudly and proudly. Sure most people are into the visual thing and they often loose out by being so. I was a victim of this attitude years ago and it is painful and demoralizing. Even recently I had to make the painful decision to post my photo here on nukeworker because I was afraid of the snide remarks or thoughts over my weight.

The same results are seen with women who have (according to society) passed their prime by either becoming overweight (such as me), gray or just not young and perky like a 20 year old. Sadly even women discriminate against women for many of the same reasons, looks, weight, age, etc. even down to them being mothers of young children.

Kudos to you for speaking up!

[KJC88]

I figure I'd just put my two cents in, figuring even if it doesn't get read it'll be bumped up somehow.

Since I am a female, I agree with having women work in any field they are capable of working up to and carrying their weight, such as the Nuclear Field.

However, as far as with the subs. Well, perhaps an all female personnel sub would work...but I personally as a female would not volunteer. I can't imagine being put together with a bunch of females in a high stress place...too much for me. I'd rather keep it with a large ratio male:female and be happy becoming "one of the guys" sort of tomboy girl. Don't mind that at all, and no it's not because I'll be male hunting, not interested I have my man here at home.

[Fermi2]

I have mentored one woman in this field. She was an Engineer at Fermi, we became close friends and when she went to TMI I helped her get through their SRO Program. She worked hard, had my respect and so far as I know TMI loves having her there. I'd work with her again in a heartbeat. I love her to death as a friend and have a world of respect for her as a peer. When we worked together at Fermi I always tried to treat her with respect and demanded others treat her in the same manner. Together we wrote and performed two IPTEs for major systems without any problems at all, much of it due to her attention to detail. To this day Debbie and I email almost everyday

Currently I'm mentoring a woman who is an Ex Navy E-6 Mechanic. She's currently in our SRO Instant program. She's a hell of a hard worker, learns fast and goes out of her way to accept advice and coaching. I'd run through a brick wall to help her because she deserves it. As with the first woman I love Leslie to death and think the world of her as a professional and if I have any say she'll get her SRO License too. I 100% look forward to working with her as a peer and on the items on which we've already worked together as a team she's impressed me with her know how and willingness to jump in and get the job done. I wouldn't have volunteered to be her mentor if I had thought TVA wouldn't be better for having her in an SRO position.

I'd much rather work with a woman who is trying hard, then a male who thinks he knows all the answers but can't seem to ever leave his desk.

Mike

[Preciousblue1965]

I'm a transplant (Damn Yankee), and have not been assimilated to the Vols (Borg) yet. The enthusiasm for UT is very catching though. Pretty country and very nice people.

Funny I am just outside of Knoxville.  I see that you guys meet at the BPS restuarant.  Too bad they don't have a Carrier group anywhere.

[PapaBear765]

I have mentored one woman in this field. She was an Engineer at Fermi, we became close friends and when she went to TMI I helped her get through their SRO Program. She worked hard, had my respect and so far as I know TMI loves having her there. I'd work with her again in a heartbeat. I love her to death as a friend and have a world of respect for her as a peer. When we worked together at Fermi I always tried to treat her with respect and demanded others treat her in the same manner. Together we wrote and performed two IPTEs for major systems without any problems at all, much of it due to her attention to detail. To this day Debbie and I email almost everyday

Currently I'm mentoring a woman who is an Ex Navy E-6 Mechanic. She's currently in our SRO Instant program. She's a hell of a hard worker, learns fast and goes out of her way to accept advice and coaching. I'd run through a brick wall to help her because she deserves it. As with the first woman I love Leslie to death and think the world of her as a professional and if I have any say she'll get her SRO License too. I 100% look forward to working with her as a peer and on the items on which we've already worked together as a team she's impressed me with her know how and willingness to jump in and get the job done. I wouldn't have volunteered to be her mentor if I had thought TVA wouldn't be better for having her in an SRO position.

I'd much rather work with a woman who is trying hard, then a male who thinks he knows all the answers but can't seem to ever leave his desk.

Mike

Women vs. men is like discussing whether prior enlisted make better officers.  It's a crap shoot.  I've seen about an equal number of female nuke students graduate who I would like to work with and who I wouldn't.  So that means that sex is not a factor in whether or not someone will make a good worker.

Women on subs would work.  It would be rough in the beginning; probably a lot of formal complaints and such.  But eventually it would become as routine as it is to work with people of all the different races that are in the navy.

[KJC88]

Yeah you make a good point with the race factor. So far it has worked. Well only way of knowing is when it actually goes into action.

[LuckyKid]

I'm a female Mechanic at prototype; I'll be moving to report for sea duty in about a month.

I wish I could serve on a submarine, but in order to explain why I would have to compare the submariners I've met to the surface guys, and usually that starts an argument. (At least it does at prototype.)

Most female mechanics put in for ELT-I will not be an ELT. Uhmmm we have to stick together through some things, like pregnancy is a rough subject. I had a pregnancy scare not too long ago (I'm married-so not too big of a scare) but it winds up being a touchy subject, because we can't do our jobs when pregnant. They were going to yank my TLD (you'll learn what that is if you don't know), so I couldn't be on the boat and wouldn't be able to qualify until the child was born. On week 20 of a 24 week stint, that sucks, because I'd be starting back over. A Ma'am pulled me aside to "give me counseling on being a woman in the Navy", and she gave me some legitimate BS about how it's practically dereliction of duty to start a family right now, and was I not aware that I signed a contract? (She's wrong by the way-you're well within your rights to have a family.) I asked a surface guy what he thought and he told me plainly that women should not be in the nuclear field, with that being a primary reason. He continued by saying, though, that women belonged in the home and that I couldn't be a good mother and a good sailor...so I'm pretty sure he's wrong too.

What I'm trying to say is that there are some double standard expectations, and some women will be your friend and give you sound advice on what to do, some will try to be the poster woman by trying to trump the double standards. No kidding, the ma'am who tries to do only what she thinks others what women to do in the Navy is rumored to have slept around on her carrier and is getting surgery to better fill out her uniform.

You have to be strong and confident in yourself. If you're not sure of what to do, ASK.

But I don't have very much great advice yet; I've not been in this field but almost two years. I will help in any way I can.