Submarine Deployment

[Tylor]

I've looked through the website, and found some good information on going underway, but the last posts appear to be from 2009, and I'm assuming are at least a little outdated.

I'm going to my first boat, a 688, and have been told that I'll be going on an underway very shortly after I arrive. I was wondering if anyone out there had any advice for me as far as packing, the qual process, or life in general on a submarine. I was a staff instructor at prototype, so I've done some advanced quals and had time to talk to some sea returnees about the process. Unfortunately, most everyone I come in contact with at work are from boomers, and I haven't had much interaction with fast attack sailors.

How much room am I going to have on the boat? Should I bring a full seabag? 2 full seabags?
With the recent navadmin change for coveralls, what will my underway uniform be? I'm really hoping it's not just all NWUs.

I appreciate any and all advice, and if anyone has links to forums I haven't found during my search I'd appreciate it.

[Marlin]

First is your boats movements are sensitive information when, where, and how long should not be generally public.

http://www.slideshare.net/mcponpao/classification-policy-for-ship-and-ssn-movements

[Tylor]

ThanK you, I edited my post to be much less specific.

[Marlin]

ThanK you, I edited my post to be much less specific.

Well done Grasshopper, I will leave the rest of the answer to those with more current information, I sailed on 637s so my advice would come with cobwebs and formaldehyde.

[spekkio]

I've looked through the website, and found some good information on going underway, but the last posts appear to be from 2009, and I'm assuming are at least a little outdated.

I'm going to my first boat, a 688, and have been told that I'll be going on an underway very shortly after I arrive. I was wondering if anyone out there had any advice for me as far as packing, the qual process, or life in general on a submarine. I was a staff instructor at prototype, so I've done some advanced quals and had time to talk to some sea returnees about the process. Unfortunately, most everyone I come in contact with at work are from boomers, and I haven't had much interaction with fast attack sailors.

How much room am I going to have on the boat? Should I bring a full seabag? 2 full seabags?
With the recent navadmin change for coveralls, what will my underway uniform be? I'm really hoping it's not just all NWUs.

I appreciate any and all advice, and if anyone has links to forums I haven't found during my search I'd appreciate it.

Are you going on an U/W or a deployment? The big difference is that if you are going on deployment, you'll need to pack basically your entire seabag. The Chiefs will stow your dress uniforms in crevices in the ship such as the sonar dome. You need those for when you return to port.

If it's just a local U/W for training or whatnot, you can skimp on the dress. However, in either case you'll need NWUs (you pull into port even on deployment). Coveralls are changing to more flame resistant coveralls, but not going away. As I'm not currently on a sub I can't tell you how the sub force is managing the transition, but the Navy Times says that the new coveralls are 'organizational clothing' handed out by the ship and you get a velcro nametag to stick on the breast. You'll have to ask your Chief if you should bring the ones you own or if the boat has a couple of sets to give you upon arrival.

As for space, you can expect to be 'hot racking.' The way that typically works is that the COB assigns 3 Sailors to two racks. This gives you about 2/3 of a rack pan worth of space to fit your clothing, uniforms, toiletries, and anything else that you want to bring for recreation... the latter which you would never use since you don't have dolphins and won't for about a year.

If the boat is going to go right on deployment, you're showing up at the perfect time for quals. Lots of bored watchstanders are always willing to give you checkouts and help you get qualified. The best advice that I can give is hit the ground running. That is, make sure you knock your first few checkouts out of the ballpark so that the boat thinks you are competent. If you go to your first checkout not being able to do all the basics that you'd ask a prototype student to do for the system, you are going to have an uphill battle from there. Oh, and keep the SPU sea stories to yourself until you are qualified to stand watch.

You should expect to crank on the mess decks for 60-90 days, but U/W you should still have about 4 hours a day to work on quals and still get 4-6 hours of sleep. Your life will be crank, qual, sleep, or watch qual sleep. Don't expect to do anything else besides that until you are senior-in-rate qualified, which includes dolphins and 3M PQS. If you go dinq then you can also knock sleep out of that formula.

The sub force has supposedly switched to an 8/24 watchstanding schedule. I've heard decent feedback about it, but only a small sample and usually from supervisors who have more lengthy turnovers that they now do less often.

The best person to contact on this sort of stuff is going to be your Chief. Unless you are meeting the boat mid-deployment, he should be able to be contacted either via phone call or email.

[Tylor]

Thank you! This is a lot of information I haven't been able to find anywhere. I'll be going on a deployment, and I'm hoping to hit the ground running in quals, but I am going to an overmanned boat from what I've heard. I will be the 21st e-div guy on the boat, where ideal manning is about 14 (these numbers came from a prototype student I knew who is now on the boat). How do you think being overmanned will effect qualifications?
Also the boat is said to be losing almost all of it's e-div first classes in the next year or two, and I've heard mixed opinions on how that could effect me. I'm hoping it means there will be lots of opportunities for me to meet my chief requirements (LPO at sea/EWS)
And what is this 8/24? 8 hours on watch and 24 hours off? The schedule I hear thrown around for submariners is the 6 hours on watch, 6 hours maintenance, and 6 hours "off".

[GLW]

.....If the boat is going to go right on deployment, you're showing up at the perfect time for quals. Lots of bored watchstanders are always willing to give you checkouts and help you get qualified. The best advice that I can give is hit the ground running. That is, make sure you knock your first few checkouts out of the ballpark so that the boat thinks you are competent.....

eeeeeyup,...

happened to me, former conventional destroyer man, 2nd class, brand new ELT with a knack for qualifying,...

I (and 3 other new MMs) report to the boat the same day the boat returns from a 6 month WestPac,...

after the 14 days of standdown during which I made as much qual progress as you possibly can, there were a slew of really good 1st classes running me through the engineering qual card like grain through a goose during weekly ops,...

next thing you know those E-6s are all taking their massive amounts of accrued leave, I've been on the boat for 32 days and I have my first Monday morning engineroom start up for a weekly op underway, and I realize that I'm the senior MM on duty, the only ELT on duty, and the EDPO is a twidget,...

this is not to say you don't blaze through quals as rapidly as your skills allow you to, just bear in mind when you're qualified you can very well find yourself qualified and all alone,...

prototypes don't deploy,...

submarines do, and submarine skippers don't like to deploy late,...

don't be that guy,....pay attention and practice 'til you can do it in your sleep, not just blaze off the qual cad,...

things change, perhaps that scenario is impossible on today's boats,...

that is all,...    

[Tylor]

Thank you, GLW. I did sometimes get in the habit of knowing barely enough for the checkouts, or cramming several checkouts at once then pushing it off until the final board. Id like to think I have a good understanding of the basics and theory, but I am starting to understand qualifying on a boat is going to be a bit more significant.

[spekkio]

Thank you! This is a lot of information I haven't been able to find anywhere. I'll be going on a deployment, and I'm hoping to hit the ground running in quals, but I am going to an overmanned boat from what I've heard. I will be the 21st e-div guy on the boat, where ideal manning is about 14 (these numbers came from a prototype student I knew who is now on the boat). How do you think being overmanned will effect qualifications?
Also the boat is said to be losing almost all of it's e-div first classes in the next year or two, and I've heard mixed opinions on how that could effect me. I'm hoping it means there will be lots of opportunities for me to meet my chief requirements (LPO at sea/EWS)
And what is this 8/24? 8 hours on watch and 24 hours off? The schedule I hear thrown around for submariners is the 6 hours on watch, 6 hours maintenance, and 6 hours "off".

Sorry... by 8/24 I meant 8 hour watches on a 24 hr schedule.

Being overmanned shouldn't affect your quals negatively. Every new body qualled means that an AEA can move to EO and an EO can get the EWS schedule or go 4 section. It also means someone moves up on the totem pole and doesn't have to do the SSMG C&I.

[Tylor]

Damn, I was way to excited about 8 on 24 off.. That makes more sense though.

[Rerun]

It really means more waking hours.

[spekkio]

It really means more waking hours.

The new watch rotation has achieved like 90%+ approval in 360 reviews. By and large people get more sleep and feel more rested on the 8 hour watch schedule.

[Marlin]

The new watch rotation has achieved like 90%+ approval in 360 reviews. By and large people get more sleep and feel more rested on the 8 hour watch schedule.

   Seems odd and lack of sleep had more to do with off watch functions, 8 hours is a long time on watch after a no sleep off watch which happened on a regular basis when not on patrol/mission. I don't know how it is now but sleep was feast or famine, lots on station and very little in transit due to quals, training, and maintenance. It would seem that watch relief for meals would eat into off watch time in this rotation as well can't see meals eight hours apart.

[spekkio]

The 8 hour watch rotation seems to fit into other stuff that pops up that would interrupt sleep.

The way it was described to me is that everything that would be 'all hands' is scheduled from the 1200-2000 watch - drills, maintenance, monitored evolutions, meetings, etc. The morning and mid watch are left alone for sleep. They do back-to-back training and temporary watch reliefs to get everyone in on the 1200-2000 watch for things like mandatory Eng Dept training or GMT.

Under the 6/18 schedule, you couldn't fit all of that into one watch section, especially when you account for the turnover and meal times. Under the 8/24, you can, so people get screwed much less out of sleep from mandatory all-hands stuff that bleeds over into more than one watchsection.

[Marlin]

The 8 hour watch rotation seems to fit into other stuff that pops up that would interrupt sleep.

The way it was described to me is that everything that would be 'all hands' is scheduled from the 1200-2000 watch - drills, maintenance, monitored evolutions, meetings, etc. The morning and mid watch are left alone for sleep. They do back-to-back training and temporary watch reliefs to get everyone in on the 1200-2000 watch for things like mandatory Eng Dept training or GMT.

Under the 6/18 schedule, you couldn't fit all of that into one watch section, especially when you account for the turnover and meal times. Under the 8/24, you can, so people get screwed much less out of sleep from mandatory all-hands stuff that bleeds over into more than one watchsection.

Maybe I am missing something wouldn't this rotation put the same watch on 12-8 every day? How do they rotate onto another watch?

[spekkio]

They dog the mid watch once a week.

It becomes a bit of a hassle to manage on one week CODTs, but they do it like I mentioned - you just conduct watch reliefs during the 12-2000 watch.

Also, Vulcans become much less of a 'death' watch rotation when you can do the drill brief at 1000, then drills from 1200-2000.

[Marlin]

They dog the mid watch once a week.

It becomes a bit of a hassle to manage on one week CODTs, but they do it like I mentioned - you just conduct watch reliefs during the 12-2000 watch.

Also, Vulcans become much less of a 'death' watch rotation when you can do the drill brief at 1000, then drills from 1200-2000.

Got it, I guess I would have to experience it but I would be inclined to like the 6-12 rotation or better yet ELT on patrol, sleep is never a problem there 

[GLW]

Maybe I am missing something wouldn't this rotation put the same watch on 12-8 every day? How do they rotate onto another watch?

bubbleheads,...

shoulda spent some time on a real ship in the real Navy before you pulled that "hold your breath and feel your way around in the dark" stint,...