How little is too little?

[Ssquid326]

Hello nukeworker.

Been browsing the site, and there's a lot of helpful content for a lot of diverse problems. I'm in the process of fighting with Medical about chronic insomnia that's lead to what they deem anxiety. I don't agree, but this isn't the place for that. My doc's talking with mental health soon, after a lot of push back from me. I've heard that pretty much any sub nuke that ever goes to MH doesn't come back to the boat. I'm begrudgingly agreeing to see an actual doc because I've had seriously unhealthy sleep problems for about a year now, despite speaking with a sleep behavioral specialist for months with no progress. My family, friends, and division are pushing me to focus on health over grinding it out, and from what I read here, it's the right choice. Moving on...

I've read that even if I "take the pill" (which my doc says is pretty much shredding the NEC/Navy), as long as I'm a stable person with no relapse, and off of medication, I have a shot at commercial power and most normal civilian jobs. My concern is that in other forums, I see guys saying that guys who get kicked out early are useless because they have 0 experience. I've qualified. Been on the boat. Stood watch underway. Done maintenance underway and in refit.

My question in regards to experience is... How little is TOO little?
For commercial power? For using nuke experience to push for general jobs?

I qualified at prototype roughly 8 months ago, and I worked really friggin hard to do it. As I've seen Broadzilla bring up, a lot of nukes feel like they're owed a cakewalk 6-figure job after A school, but I'm a really hardworking guy, trying to tell my family it's going to be okay and to make a plan to stand by, if things go south. If I'm DQ'd, I want to try to work commercial power eventually. I like standing watch. I like being a mechanic. I'd bust my a** for it. Do I have a shot? I know everybody from NLO's to SM's chime in here, so I've got high hopes for feedback.

And if not, will the experience I have give any pull for normal jobs on hydro/gas/hydraulics? I hope so, so I can afford to get a degree instead of working minimum wage all over again.

Thanks in advance.

[Frank Cable]

If you have sleep problems now, why on earth would you want to work more shift work?

[HeavyD]

I hope so, so I can afford to get a degree instead of working minimum wage all over again.

That statement right there should be covered by the Post 9-11 GI Bill, provided you're separated with an Honorable discharge.  Or maybe I'm missing something.

Also, to echo Frank Cable's question, if you're having sleep issues now the commercial nuke world isn't going to help that any.  You can do operations, maintenance, QA, planning, etc. in any number of industries besides nuclear that won't run you into the ground.  Just sayin.

[HydroDave63]

I know a guy who knows a guy who had a friend....that had similar symptoms. Turned out to be sleep apnea. Get a sleep study done ASAP, as that they aren't cheap, and should be covered by your present "employer". If it turns out to be apnea, it isn't mental, there are no drugs for it, and the handy little CPAP device will be a lifesaver. Otherwise, apnea hugely increases risk of stroke. Seeing the 'actual doc' is the BEST thing you can do in this situation, ASAP.

[Druid]

I don't agree, but this isn't the place for that.

I'm assuming that you are agreeing with sleep disorder diagnosis but not the anxiety disorder diagnosis.

I qualified at prototype roughly 8 months ago, and I worked really friggin hard to do it.

So you know that you've learned how to learn. Pick a direction and run with it.

I just went and looked at my former shipmate profiles that I've connected with on LinkedIn. There's about twenty of them and I'd say only four or five are actually working in the power industry directly. One works for a professional training company, several work in non-power utility plants (two at separate universities and one at a metal production plant and another at a chemical plant). There is another besides myself in the medical world. He's retrained as a physical therapist. There's still another that's a program manager for a college athletics program. Hard work and the ability to learn quickly are valuable assets and will take you far.

But seriously, take care of your health. Talking to a counselor and taking pills may help you mask the problem, but only constant therapy and exercises will rewire the brain back to something semi-normal. I had to do this for a balance problem. I had an ear issue that went undiagnosed and my brain changed its wiring to compensate. When the ear problem resolved, the new neural pathways remained. It took about four months of weekly sessions with a therapist and assigned exercises several times a day to regain a fairly normal balance state.

Best!

[Rerun]

See the actual doc.  Right now it's pretty much free.  The machine can be a life saver
and you can pretty much do any job while on the machine. On the other hand you haven't really qual anything in a business that is getting smaller by the day.

[GLW]

......On the other hand you haven't really qual anything in a business that is getting smaller by the day.

true that,...

......

OBTW,....

half of that is the Navy's fault from a different tack also,...

it's the USN that keeps telling these guys that if they go nuke there's a guaranteed 6 figure salary waiting for them, no strike that, there's a six figure salary hunting them down with gold paved streets and fuzzy bunny rainbow bonus machines after they EAOS,...

........

[Ksheed]

Rennhack,
Is there anyway to generate a statistic on who quotes themselves the most? I think GLW may be our leader.

oops hit the wrong key

[HydroDave63]

Rennhack,
Is there anyway to generate a statistic on who quotes themselves the most? I think GLW may be our leader.

That's because he is....The Archivist!

[Ssquid326]

If you have sleep problems now, why on earth would you want to work more shift work?

I don't mind the shift work. I've been working with a sleep behavioral therapist, and it's her opinion that if I can regulate my sleep schedule with a sleep aid like this to get back on track for a length of time, then continue the learned sleep "skillset" I should be okay. The issue is with "the pill" scenario, which I've pushed off for a long time because of this reason. I would only ever go back to shift work again if I felt healthy and capable of it, and I've heard that the civilian sector would be more accepting of using prescribed sleep medication as necessary to do the job.

I'm assuming that you are agreeing with sleep disorder diagnosis but not the anxiety disorder diagnosis.

Bingo.

So you know that you've learned how to learn. Pick a direction and run with it.

I just went and looked at my former shipmate profiles that I've connected with on LinkedIn. There's about twenty of them and I'd say only four or five are actually working in the power industry directly. One works for a professional training company, several work in non-power utility plants (two at separate universities and one at a metal production plant and another at a chemical plant). There is another besides myself in the medical world. He's retrained as a physical therapist. There's still another that's a program manager for a college athletics program. Hard work and the ability to learn quickly are valuable assets and will take you far.

But seriously, take care of your health. Talking to a counselor and taking pills may help you mask the problem, but only constant therapy and exercises will rewire the brain back to something semi-normal. I had to do this for a balance problem. I had an ear issue that went undiagnosed and my brain changed its wiring to compensate. When the ear problem resolved, the new neural pathways remained. It took about four months of weekly sessions with a therapist and assigned exercises several times a day to regain a fairly normal balance state.

Best!

Thanks for that feedback. I guess that I could be pushing too hard to stay in a similar job/field. And I'm right there with you about the exercises, like I've said about the sleep habit and behavior stuff I've tried going through for months. Going to hold onto it.

I know a guy who knows a guy who had a friend....that had similar symptoms. Turned out to be sleep apnea. Get a sleep study done ASAP, as that they aren't cheap, and should be covered by your present "employer". If it turns out to be apnea, it isn't mental, there are no drugs for it, and the handy little CPAP device will be a lifesaver. Otherwise, apnea hugely increases risk of stroke. Seeing the 'actual doc' is the BEST thing you can do in this situation, ASAP.

Done multiple sleep studies for sleep apnea that have rendered nothing. Boat doc thought that'd be it too. No cigar.

That statement right there should be covered by the Post 9-11 GI Bill, provided you're separated with an Honorable discharge.  Or maybe I'm missing something.

Also, to echo Frank Cable's question, if you're having sleep issues now the commercial nuke world isn't going to help that any.  You can do operations, maintenance, QA, planning, etc. in any number of industries besides nuclear that won't run you into the ground.  Just sayin.

In regards to the post 9/11, I was under the impression that discharge category was General - Medical (with an under honorable conditions or something) and that it wouldn't qualify. If so, that'd be great and it would take a lot of stress off of the shoulders.
And I guess the general trend is "Commercial nuclear probably isn't right for me. It'd be better to learn a new trade with as little experience as I have.", is that right?

[GLW]

Rennhack,
Is there anyway to generate a statistic on who quotes themselves the most? I think GLW may be our leader.

oops hit the wrong key

I dislike typing similar replies to the same topic,...

easier to "search" and copy and paste,...

besides, if OPs see that their question has been hashed out before, and usually at length (ad nauseum) then perhaps the OP will click over to previous threads and forego asking the same "but if this" or "but if that" over and over again,....

just about every question has been asked and answered a bunch of times over the past 15 years,....

[Ssquid326]

I dislike typing similar replies to the same topic,...

easier to "search" and copy and paste,...

besides, if OPs see that their question has been hashed out before, and usually at length (ad nauseum) then perhaps the OP will click over to previous threads and forego asking the same "but if this" or "but if that" over and over again,....

just about every question has been asked and answered a bunch of times over the past 15 years,....

I know this topic has been brought up several times and I've read several threads on it so far. There's been some good replies from guys about the health side of it, which I appreciate, but it still doesn't hit my core question.
I mostly wanted out of this forum to hear where too little experience really is, or maybe more beneficial for me where enough experience to have a shot at working commercial nuclear or a comparable non-nuclear job falls? Is it passing power school? Is it qualifying at prototype? (BZ would kill anybody who says yes i'm sure)
Is it being to the fleet, qualifying and standing watches, and doing maintenance for any significant length of time (where I am stuck)? Senior in rate? EWS? Sea/shore rotation?

I'm trying to phrase it in a way that could benefit people in the future, but of course I want to know for my own situation. So here:

Is qualifying and standing underway watches (nothing supervisory like ERS, EWS, or EEOW) and doing actual work/maintenance underway and in port for several months of any value to me applying for a commercial nuke (or non-nuke) technician/operator-style job?

Mostly so I can tell my wife where we're headed if I do end up on disqualifying sleep medicine, which is the most likely case.

[HydroDave63]

I'm trying to phrase it in a way that could benefit people in the future, but of course I want to know for my own situation. So here:

Is qualifying and standing underway watches (nothing supervisory like ERS, EWS, or EEOW) and doing actual work/maintenance underway and in port for several months of any value to me applying for a commercial nuke (or non-nuke) technician/operator-style job?

Mostly so I can tell my wife where we're headed if I do end up on disqualifying sleep medicine, which is the most likely case.

Only a little. And power plant jobs are scarce, both due to several nuclear power plants closing, and coal decommissionings due to the 111(d) Rule. The selection process is very competetive, and a large number of power plant management folks are ex-Nukes that know the difference when reviewing resumes. Honestly, between your limited experience and ongoing health situation, your odds of landing a power plant job are not optimal. Still, it could happen. Apply EVERYwhere that you can, including non-powerplant jobs as Druid mentioned.

[Mounder]

Sleep disorders qualify as a disability for the military. If you get out with some level of documented disability (which you will); you're a shoe-in for any government slot you qualify for and you bump out everyone who applies (unless they are also a disabled vet.)  No worries

Lots of other things qualify as disabled (partially disabled) for the military, for example,  carpal tunnel, back pain and 2.5 Rem of dose.

[Ssquid326]

Bull....

Is this about the disability post?

[Rerun]

No it isn't. I am certain you won't get a job in the power plant industry but hey go
for it.  My reply was for the individual claiming knowledge about government jobs. As one who
used to interview potential government employees what he is saying is not true.

[Gamecock]

Sleep disorders qualify as a disability for the military. If you get out with some level of documented disability (which you will); you're a shoe-in for any government slot you qualify for and you bump out everyone who applies (unless they are also a disabled vet.)  No worries

Lots of other things qualify as disabled (partially disabled) for the military, for example,  carpal tunnel, back pain and 2.5 Rem of dose.

Your post is filled with half truths.  In order to qualify for preference in hiring for a government job, your disability rating has to be higher then a certain percentage. 

Cheers,

GC

[spekkio]

That statement right there should be covered by the Post 9-11 GI Bill, provided you're separated with an Honorable discharge.  Or maybe I'm missing something.

You only get partial GI bill benefits if you serve fewer than 36 months of active duty time (after any "time owed" for scholarships).

stuff

I think that you are kind of missing the forest for the trees.

Step 1: Stop worrying about what the NNP program qualifies you to do or not do. Truth be told, there are plenty of people who go into commercial nuclear power, trades, and engineering fields without ever serving a day in the Navy. You don't need the nuclear navy to achieve your post-military career goals. There is often another way. Talk to people in those jobs and ask them how they did it, then do what they did.

Step 2: Get healthy. Get the medical care you need, even if it's disqualifying from service. It stinks if you have to separate sooner than planned, but you don't want to be putting yourself and your shipmates at risk because you have a condition that affects your mental alertness.

Step 3: Once you get a proper diagnosis, you can look into whether this is a condition that is disqualifying for future career fields. If it is, then you're young enough to change paths to something else relatively easily. There are plenty of lucrative careers out there where people with sleep disorders or anxiety can make it, so don't give up if the navy or commercial nuclear power isn't in the cards.

[Mounder]

I know nothing more about this individual than the rest of you reading the posts.  This is a vet with some level of disability. They know exactly where they stand with the percentage.  I do work in the government sector and I absolutely see the retired vets (who get some level of disability pay after getting out) get preferential hiring for government slots. A vast majority of the Fed military job openings will be written to eliminate the chances for the non-vet.

[HydroDave63]

Sleep disorders qualify as a disability for the military.

Probably not for much longer...

http://www.military.com/benefits/2013/06/20/va-reconsiders-disability-ratings-for-apnea.html

[MMM]

As much as I like the 50% disability I get for sleep apnea, I agree that it should be looked at and probably reduced.

OP: Like everyone has said, your chances are slim for a commercial plant, at least starting in ops, other departments might be easier and have better sleep schedules. You might want to look into another department or use what you can from your GI Bill and go to college for a couple years, then apply to an operator position.

[Ssquid326]

Just a fun little now and then two years down the line.
I ended up kicking all of the bulls**t sleep therapy and medical stuff to the curb, and practically OD'd on Zzzquil on a weekend off to try and reset my internal clock or something. Long story short, it worked.

I came out of that slump a hot runner. Finished fish and other quals very quickly. Now I'm taking over as the boat's AQAO, after having qualified QAS. Closing in on the end of EWS. I've got just over four years in, and I'm glad it all worked out fine.

Thanks for all of that advice at the time guys. I know several of you are still active readers and posters on here.

To any other future readers who might find themselves in a similar scenario, try a half bottle of Zzzquil before letting Navy medical freak you out over nothing.

[Marlin]

Just a fun little now and then two years down the line.
I ended up kicking all of the bulls**t sleep therapy and medical stuff to the curb, and practically OD'd on Zzzquil on a weekend off to try and reset my internal clock or something. Long story short, it worked.

I came out of that slump a hot runner. Finished fish and other quals very quickly. Now I'm taking over as the boat's AQAO, after having qualified QAS. Closing in on the end of EWS. I've got just over four years in, and I'm glad it all worked out fine.

Thanks for all of that advice at the time guys. I know several of you are still active readers and posters on here.

To any other future readers who might find themselves in a similar scenario, try a half bottle of Zzzquil before letting Navy medical freak you out over nothing.

   Sleep apnea is more complex and serious than adjusting your circadian rhythm and is responsible for many deaths that have been diagnosed as heart failure. Many who are diagnosed main problem may just be snoring but severe cases result in a large drop in blood oxygen. Normal blood oxygen is 95% mine was 75% when first diagnosed and of the six stages of sleep I did not get below the third due to the number of times that I "woke"during the test. Reggie White of the Green Bay packers is believed to have died from Sleep apnea and it was just announced that Carrie Fisher died in part due to complications from sleep apnea.
   Make sure you know what the real medical issue is before you treat yourself. Someone taking your advice could kill themselves.

[MrHazmat]

Yea, I quit breathing 59 times in an hour !!!! Don't remember my O2 level but the Dr said I was on the verge of having a heart attack.

[Marlin]

Yea, I quit breathing 59 times in an hour !!!! Don't remember my O2 level but the Dr said I was on the verge of having a heart attack.

   5 or less is normal anything over 30 apneas per hour is considered severe, mine was 89 the graph was a solid line. After talking with the doctor it is probably what my father died from; he was diagnosed with heart failure, sleep apnea was not a well known diagnosis at the time. Depression can be associated with it as well. Being in good health and physically active does not mean you do not have it. I was playing racquet ball a couple times of week, softball, bicycling, even a 150 mile weekend bicycle ride each year for charity. My indication was I could not get enough sleep and my wife was worried about the number of times I stopped breathing at night (10 seconds or more at times). BossLady is the one who heard about sleep apnea and made me go to the doctor.