daycare at the plants?

[Atomic_Punk]

I'm not trying to be mean but child care is your responsibility, no one elses,

Excellent point.

[Already Gone]

Whoooaaaahhh!!!
Let's all breathe for a minute.  Before anybody else manages to be offended, let's just step back and think.

The idea is to toss ideas into the open so that we can discuss them on their merits, maybe crack a few jokes or tell a story along the way.  There is no need to get this deep into personalities.  Or, if we're going to then we should understand each other.

inyourface doesn't seem to know Broadzilla from his earlier posts.  She might seem a little thin-skinned and easily put off by Mike's no-nonsense approach to nuclear power.  She will get used to it - hopefully really soon - and hold her tongue.
If I would say anything to her it would be don't take it personally.  He's not a bad guy just because he sees things a certain way and can be stubborn about it.

Roger, maybe you read that last statement a little differently than I did.  What you see as arrogance (not a big stretch considering who wrote it) I saw as Mike saying that people who know him will vouch for his being a nice guy at heart.  You can't always get the whole meaning from the written word.

Back to the topic, please.

Some people who need their jobs would find life easier if there were daycare available where they work.
Some people think it would be too big an undertaking for a nuke plant to offer such a service for so few people.

Chalk me up as one who thinks that there is some merit to the suggestion, but it is not likely to happen.

The whole topic does bring out one truth about the nuke community - Nuclear or not, this is still a job and jobs are done by people.  We're not robots, and we don't look like ooompa-loompas when we're not in pc's.  All of us have unique situations, desires, lifestyles, backgrounds, expectations,...etc.  The idea that only those who fit a certain mold can do this job was fine when we were in the Navy.  Now that we're in the real world, we can't find enough people who are exactly like us (nor should we ever want to) to fill all the jobs.  The time may come soon when daycare, bilingual procedures, wheelchair ramps on the refuel floor, and God-only-knows what else will be commonplace.  I know how that burns the butt of a lot of people here, but it could very well be reality.  If we ever do build more plants, we're going to have to mine a little deeper for people to staff them.  New and different doesn't always mean the same thing as bad.
It's best that we discuss these and many other topics as civilly as possible that we might understand each other and be better prepared to work together.

[RDTroja]

I removed my last post because it was off topic. I still believe what I said but this is not the place for it.

[Roll Tide]

Ask Why and/or offer solutions if it is that big a deal and important to ya'.  Then make a proposal to an Employer. 

As staffing becomes more of a problem the Employers will have to make concessions.  Or, maybe they will not.

Perhaps nobody noticed the suggestion that posting on this site can impact the availability. If you don't believe it, look at the number of hotels / motels / rental homes / campgrounds that have chosen to advertise directly on this site. That is in addition to the ones simply named near a site.

We currently have threads showing lodging at each location. IF someone posted a child care link at each site, it would justify the effort for a moderator to dedicate a separate thread for each. For a starting point, just post the information on that site's lodging thread. Include whether they accomodate contractors (how many weeks minimum).

There are 3 important spheres to consider:
1) The things I can control
2) The things I can impact
3) The things I am concerned about

This is an incremental movement of this issue from category 3 into category 2, for those who chose to do something.


And yes, when employers find that the lack of options keeps workers out, they will address it. Just look at plants with electrical outlets for engine block heaters up North or offering to let you park your RV out West. Those things made it easier to bring in quality people.

[RADBASTARD]

By the way we don't have any kids either, but I thought it was a nice thing to do/idea for the road techs.
Whats the difference if there is a day care on plant property and you take them or in the town you are staying.I don't want to hear all that nuclear legal jargon either.
I don't want to rear somebodies" little bastards' either

Ps: I think somebody has a crush on BZILLA ,it's ok we know.

[RDTroja]

Sorry, RadBastard, but all that 'nuclear legal jargon' is valid (and the reason a lot of us have our jobs, BTW) and needs to be given weight in any discussion of this sort. The utilities cannot and will not take risks that have no reward of adequate value. Would it be nice? Of course it would, and I am certainly not against utilities being nice. I am not against having day care, I am just trying to point out that it is not easily worked out and the problems (not just the legal/risk ones) are greater than the benefits... for the utility, certainly, and potentially for the parents, the children and the parents' co-workers. Offsite -- bring it on, I think it is very workable with the proper safeguards (small 's'). Onsite -- way too many issues to work well. Just one man's opinion.

[Charles U Farley]

I think we all agree that daycare woud be nice, wherever you work. 

And I also think that we all agree that it may not be financially/legally feasible for the utility, however 'nice' it may be. 

So, people can argue its merits on an internet forum, or someone can get off their butt and get it started.  The way I see it, it is never going to happen unless someone takes that intitial risk.  Someone needs to take that risk, make a proposal, set aside the capital, set up such a business, and show the rest of the industry it is solvent.  Who's going to do that?  Inyourface?  The utility sure isn't going to.  They already have you.  There is nothing in it for them.  Whoever does, good luck.  I wish you the best for success.

[Camella Black]

I have twp beautiful children both who have been the children of a nuke since they were born thank you.  I spent holidays away from them and when I was in the Navy I'd spend months away from them so kindly don't whine to me, You chose to be a roadie now deal with it. I'm certain others would take your place.

George I want my utility to wash my car and send my family nice hot meals.

Mike

Sorry dude you are way off base on this one. I can tell you from experience that your children and your child suffered a great deal while you were away from home; and I find it hard to believe that you would not change the past and spend more time around them if you could.

As far as having a day care facility on site: if it was located outside the the gates then I don't see a problem at all. I have over 30 years of living around nuclear facilities and at this time live less than a mile from the SRS gates.

Think about it, if your child is across town or up the street and disaster strikes it makes no difference in your mind. If you are trained properly you suffer that little twinge of "oh God" and then you go on.

As far as the breaks are concerned, I can remember back in the day when many house techs took breaks at the local watering holes... I'd much rather know that a mother or father could at some point look in on their kids.

If nothing else why couldn't a facility run by the utility be located off site?

[Fermi2]

Uh my children didn't suffer in the least, While I've spent long hours at work I've sacrificed sleep to be with them, they have a standard of living that I certainly didn't, I had large amounts of days off that are devoted to my kids. I've spent far more timed with my kids than my father did with us, and he worked a straight day job.

As the litmus test ask my kids, I have and both agree they've had a great life with me and I'm more involved in their lives than "conventional" parents.

I've never missed a ball game or school function, and I've spent literally hours playing with them, teaching them to read, do Math, play tennis, football. I've swatched Pro Wrestling with them and last year drove nine hours one way to take him to watch the University Of Michigan Home Opener.

I don't believe utilities should get into the rug rat watching business unless they recoup 100% of the costs and the parents pick up the price of any liability. In that case go for it. I certainly wouldn't do it because someone who works at my plant 25 days every 18 months feels it would benefit them.

NO ONE is responsible for your kids but yourself. If your job interferes with that responsibility then quit the job and do something where you can adequately take care of them. EVERY utility is cutting costs, Day Cares are million dollar endeavors, with having to pay out maximum value on a share of stock the shareholders won't stand for it and I certainly don't want it. ANY dollar that is diverted from permanent worker salaries and improving/repairing a plant is a wasted dollar and if its spent performing a service that is the parents responsibilty it's not only wasteful, it's a sin.

Mike

[biloxoi blues]

Did they have daycare on the navy ships?  I dont know how one can be on the ship and be there for the kids and not miss important things like holidays and bdays.  Come on Broad we all know your great we can ask RD to back that up, but there are some things we cannot control (like if both kids have an event at the same time but different places), we all have to make sacrifices for what we think are better conditions for our kids and love ones (including ourselves).   Now I can almost bet the house there wont be a daycare on site because of all the problems it would bring to the site, but IM sure there are techs and maybe cordinators at the plant site that would give you some good daycare places for your kids.  Also I think praising oneself is also a sin.(as is judging)

[Fermi2]

I don't ever brag on myself. Anyone who has worked with me will tell you I think I'm just as dumb as the next guy. Two people here refuted that I was either a good parent or my children had suffered because of my job. neither of which is true.

NOW if the contractors want to provide day care then it's their choice, I think the utilities providing it is bad business and I'm against it.

Uh we're not talking the Navy, we're talking providing day care for a person who works 25 days every 18 months at any given utility. The industry doesn't OWE any employee anything and NO ONE is bound to the industry.

Mike

[biloxoi blues]

Oh I've succeed plenty in this industry and anyone who has worked with me knows I'm probably one of the best people in it. I know this for a fact.

I'm not trying to be mean but child care is your responsibility, no one elses,

Mike

Oh I must of misinterpreted that as boasting.

[Camella Black]

Uh my children didn't suffer in the least, While I've spent long hours at work I've sacrificed sleep to be with them, they have a standard of living that I certainly didn't, I had large amounts of days off that are devoted to my kids. I've spent far more timed with my kids than my father did with us, and he worked a straight day job.

As the litmus test ask my kids, I have and both agree they've had a great life with me and I'm more involved in their lives than "conventional" parents.

I've never missed a ball game or school function, and I've spent literally hours playing with them, teaching them to read, do Math, play tennis, football. I've swatched Pro Wrestling with them and last year drove nine hours one way to take him to watch the University Of Michigan Home Opener.

I don't believe utilities should get into the rug rat watching business unless they recoup 100% of the costs and the parents pick up the price of any liability. In that case go for it. I certainly wouldn't do it because someone who works at my plant 25 days every 18 months feels it would benefit them.

NO ONE is responsible for your kids but yourself. If your job interferes with that responsibility then quit the job and do something where you can adequately take care of them. EVERY utility is cutting costs, Day Cares are million dollar endeavors, with having to pay out maximum value on a share of stock the shareholders won't stand for it and I certainly don't want it. ANY dollar that is diverted from permanent worker salaries and improving/repairing a plant is a wasted dollar and if its spent performing a service that is the parents responsibilty it's not only wasteful, it's a sin.

Mike

You make be a great tech, I have no idea; but I am sure you can't be in two places at once. You admitted to spending months away from your children and missing holidays. I am sure that your family "suffered" because they were lonely and missed you. That was my point before.

Would it hurt any utility to do a little something for their support staff? Most of us already do without insurance, vacation pay, raises, job security, retirement and all the other perks that you and other house techs take for granted. Most of us have been here quite some time and have seen a huge decline in our work days and have given a great deal of blood, sweat and tears towards our chosen profession, its time they gave back to us.

Now as far as daycare, I vote yes; at least come up with a reasonable solution such as a list of reliable sources for us to chose from.

[Marlin]

I'm going to take flak for this but it is not the responsibility of the utility to provide services to their contractors. You can't even use the bathrooms in some of them much less be provided child care. They expect the contractor to manage their own personnel. I have worked plants in the past where a contractor supplied trailer was your office/break room with a Porta-John outside.

This discussion is drifting and becoming personal. Mike's position from a utility perspective is a correct one, from the other side it is a real issue that needs attention.

[RADBASTARD]

Oh I've succeed plenty in this industry and anyone who has worked with me knows I'm probably one of the best people in it. I know this for a fact.

I'm not trying to be mean but child care is your responsibility, no one elses,

Mike

br

Oh I've succeed plenty in this industry and anyone who has worked with me knows I'm probably one of the best people in it. I know this for a fact.

I'm not trying to be mean but child care is your responsibility, no one elses,

Mike

COME ON BROAD !-Im one of the best people in this business and I know that for a fact?
I've succeeded plenty
If that isn't boasting and patting yourself on the back,I don't know what is? Is it hard to get both hands behind your back at the same time to do all that patting?
Actually I thought boloxi blues was the best.

[RRhoads]

Oh I've succeed plenty in this industry and anyone who has worked with me knows I'm probably one of the best people in it. I know this for a fact.

I'm not trying to be mean but child care is your responsibility, no one elses,

Mike

wow..nothing like blowing your own horn....but i would expect NOTHING less!

[Nuclear NASCAR]

I was tempted yesterday to post on this.  But, I feel that must today.

InYourFace...*(seems to sum things up)*...This is not a place to name call.  As mentioned a place to OPENLY discuss IDEAS.

I must take Exception with the way in which you have responded to B'Zilla.

First,  He has served this country to protect the very Liberity you take and use against him.  FREEDOM of speech.  Take a moment and Please reflect on that for a moment.  He is not making Personal attacks....just stating his position.

Second, B'Zilla is a little harsh ..... get used to it.  I don't have a problem with this delievery.  But, I am not thin skinned either.

Third,  Please stay on point.  We know B'Zilla's point.  He is Management at a Fine Plant in the Southern States of America.  He could be a valuable source of info if you asked.

Fourth,  Because B'Zilla is M'g'ment at a plant.  What he says is a pretty good indicator of the industry and there position.  Not the last or only point mind you, but a point you will need to work with down the road of radcon travel'ing life maybe.

I don't mind you wanting Child Care.  I think there are very good points on this issue presented by the likes of B'Court..RDTroj....and many others....Including B'Zilla.

So, speak your mind....we encourage it.  I served too and just like all the other Liberties that most take for granted we all don't think the same.  But, most of the time have common goals.

<Your Uncle Jason speaking for a moment>  We were given the basics from our Founding Fathers  (Read Roll Tides sig.)  and if you are not violating My Life, Liberity and the Pursuit of Happiness then you can say anything you want.  I will not take Personal Offence.  And, that is a two way street.  Take notice that B'Zilla did not affect your Life/Liberity/Pursuit of Happiness...therefore the only person offended by his words turned out to be You.  And, the founding fathers did not give you a Constitutional Right to Not be Offended.

Personally I think that 'illegalsmile' said it best.

Peace.

Jason

Well said Jason.  There is some great discussion going on here and a lot of passion from all.  I would ask for a little more respect for each other, even if we don't agree with the point of view being expressed. 

Thanks in advance,
Tom

[RRhoads]

kinda backwards to have this "all for the company mentality" when im sure housing was subsidsed(or free if on a boat!) while in the NAV...+ 3 squares a day & health benies too..Seems like alot to me but..anyway i think the whole daycare thing is a nice pipe dream but would never happen.

[biloxoi blues]

Remember RR,  Broad dosent brag about himself you must have interpreted that just like I did.

[M1Ark]

kinda backwards to have this "all for the company mentality" when im sure housing was subsidsed(or free if on a boat!) while in the NAV...+ 3 squares a day & health benies too..Seems like alot to me but..anyway i think the whole daycare thing is a nice pipe dream but would never happen.

LOL... Bad argument, RR.  We were only paid about .25 cents an hour.

[Rad Sponge]

I think the true bottom line is that a comapny will do what is in the best interest of the shareholders.

I.E: Money.

Will having daycare available improve retention, improve outage manning, decrease outage time, blah blah blah, will it cost more money than is worth?

I only know of one power plant, the one I work at, and from casual observation there aren't too many women walking around and I speculate that there aren't that many single dads, either (purely speculative of course).

There also weren't that many women at the last outage I witnessed and the many of the ones that were there were married and appeared to be beyond the mommy years.

Would I support childcare? You betcha. But I think it should be paid for by the employees.

Now about the site emergency thing: Why not just set up shop off site if child care was to be a permenate availability.

I think childcare merely for outage times is beyond the scope of outage support needs. I mean outage is supposed to be a " I came, I saw, I swiped, I left" mentality where you show up, do it, and move on. I don't think the road life is a good way to raise a kid. Now, if Bartlett et al wanted to create a mobile child care unit to work the outages...

[RADBASTARD]

Hey Broad,Not to brag im 6'4" blond hair ,blue eyes,ex ALL AMERICAN QB at USC,I have 2 kids at HARVARD- 1 in med school and 1 in law school.I was once an rpm at fermi,and I also past the NEU TEST and GET.Just to let you know it ain't bragging if you done it.
Don't misinterpret this as bragging,just ask anybody in this bizz who knows me it's the truth.

Just to keep it on topic,I think daycare is a nice idea for the radworkers and I know those cheap bastards of companies will never go for it.

[ChiefRocscooter]

Last time I saw a topic get this hot was when we discussed drugs and second chances!!  Ok here is my 2 cents (all the change a poor active duty guy can spare)
1.   Employers are in the bussiness of doing bussiness, if provideing a benefit for the employee will benefit bussiness then they will likely do it.  (I offer health care for exhibt  1 They offer it cause the long term benefit is to the company not the worker! NO REALLY I MEAN IT!!!)
2.  If they can replace you with someone else you can do the job as well for less money then they will try (and should, within reason, but remember that there is a COST in personnel turnover if you treat people unfairly, to say nothing of the cost of constant turnover)
3.  A company only has a moral obligation to live up to its end of what ever bargin they sign(agree to) with an employee if you are of value to them then they will find ways to provide incentive to keep you up until you cost more than you are worth (see #2)
4.  Day care is a benefit like health care and dental.  Some companies offer it because it makes sense for thier work force structure (IMHO it does not in this industry from what I have seen).  Are we missing some great pool of talent by not offfering it?? (not likely, maybe a few good people here and there but as we all know there are lots of people out there willing to step up for jobs).
5.  As for the few comment on what the military offered, well if you look to #1 and 2 you will see the the military only gave what it had to to 1)keep effective fighting force (Army marches on stomach, Navy sails on its BAC ect..) 2) Try and keep volunteer force stable and attract "high" quality individuals.  Anything less and good people leave and good peopel on outside do not sign up!! Funny but military is in many ways just a big business!

Oh yea as for day care centers at Nuke plants;  Most of the Nukes I know have kids who are to darn smart to leave them under anything less than armed security around fissionable material!! I shudder to think what my son or daughter could build if give to much exposure to a room full of other "Nuke Kids"!!  Let alone it they get around some of the extremely capable high enders (see post where bragging might be included)

Rob

PS RadBas  you sound interesting but I happen to know that Broad might be more interested if you were a Red Head (I assumeing you were making a pass at him no?, I mean I could be wrong, these social issues always trip me up and ever since the dont ask dont tell thing I get confused about this gender stuff and weather a guy is making a pass at another guy ) (Oh and me I am just avg guy of no intrest to anyone but my wife some please no personal information that might appear like a pass cause I will likely not "get" it.

PSS Now come on you can luagh cause that was funny "get er done"

[RADBASTARD]

Last time I saw a topic get this hot was when we discussed drugs and second chances!!  Ok here is my 2 cents (all the change a poor active duty guy can spare)
1.   Employers are in the bussiness of doing bussiness, if provideing a benefit for the employee will benefit bussiness then they will likely do it.  (I offer health care for exhibt  1 They offer it cause the long term benefit is to the company not the worker! NO REALLY I MEAN IT!!!)
2.  If they can replace you with someone else you can do the job as well for less money then they will try (and should, within reason, but remember that there is a COST in personnel turnover if you treat people unfairly, to say nothing of the cost of constant turnover)
3.  A company only has a moral obligation to live up to its end of what ever bargin they sign(agree to) with an employee if you are of value to them then they will find ways to provide incentive to keep you up until you cost more than you are worth (see #2)
4.  Day care is a benefit like health care and dental.  Some companies offer it because it makes sense for thier work force structure (IMHO it does not in this industry from what I have seen).  Are we missing some great pool of talent by not offfering it?? (not likely, maybe a few good people here and there but as we all know there are lots of people out there willing to step up for jobs).
5.  As for the few comment on what the military offered, well if you look to #1 and 2 you will see the the military only gave what it had to to 1)keep effective fighting force (Army marches on stomach, Navy sails on its BAC ect..) 2) Try and keep volunteer force stable and attract "high" quality individuals.  Anything less and good people leave and good peopel on outside do not sign up!! Funny but military is in many ways just a big business!

Oh yea as for day care centers at Nuke plants;  Most of the Nukes I know have kids who are to darn smart to leave them under anything less than armed security around fissionable material!! I shudder to think what my son or daughter could build if give to much exposure to a room full of other "Nuke Kids"!!  Let alone it they get around some of the extremely capable high enders (see post where bragging might be included)

Rob

PS RadBas  you sound interesting but I happen to know that Broad might be more interested if you were a Red Head (I assumeing you were making a pass at him no?, I mean I could be wrong, these social issues always trip me up and ever since the dont ask dont tell thing I get confused about this gender stuff and weather a guy is making a pass at another guy ) (Oh and me I am just avg guy of no intrest to anyone but my wife some please no personal information that might appear like a pass cause I will likely not "get" it.

PSS Now come on you can luagh cause that was funny "get er done"

Depends hows he look in some backless  biker chaps? I mean can you bounce a quarter off those cheeks booyah!
Whats with the  same crap we have heard 5 times over numbering things and it doesn't make sense
PS: you spell worse than I do- dee dee dee

staying on  topic support health care

[RRhoads]

LOL... Bad argument, RR.  We were only paid about .25 cents an hour.

WOW...$.25/hr?
YOu guys were defin. OVERPAID then!