Just took the POSS/MASS/BMST, a reflection

[Marlin]

You're right.  I shouldn't have painted those guys in a negative light like that.  Your point about being a good test taker is well taken.  My only point earlier was that being a good test taker doesn't show you the whole picture.  Listen, before I make my point just know I'm not saying the test is worthless or shouldn't be used.  I'm just making a point that maybe we can talk about.  The people who are better test takers have an important skill, but the C student who gets a 1500 on his SAT's is still a C student.  He might have an amazing intellect, but after the POSS what comes next?  A year or so of training.  Maybe all things being equal, the guy who needs to practice harder for the POSS and uses strategies so he can "barely" pass would make a better employee down the road because he has the work ethic and study skills to excel in a training enviornment like that.

Either way, if I get a chance again someday I will bust my a$$ and do what I can and if my best is good enough maybe I will have better results.  If not, you guys are right and I'm clearly not cut out for this job.  I will keep my eye open in the meantime and research some other career choices around the plant.

   You may have missed the point of the test. It is looking for aptitude and the acumen to perform the job. Spatial reasoning, critical thinking skills, and cognition can only be studied for up to a point. Not everyone is meant to play a violin, paint, or sculpt a statue. There are some very intelligent people who will not make good operators.
   It is not my intention to discourage you just to help give you a little perspective for the next time you take the exam if you chose to do so.

[DDMurray]

Thanks for the above information.  I think what my frustration boiled down to is something you mentioned.  It was my fault for being unprepared or not practicing this way, but I had some very intelligent people in OPS management take me aside and tell me to never guess and only answer a question if I know for absolutely sure it is the correct answer.  To hear after the fact from some good people on this forum that educated guessing is okay after you answer everything you know for sure and go back, well that just seems like 2 totally different pieces of information.  That's NOT why I failed obviously.  I was just simply trying to figure out what was fact versus fiction.  Everyone here knows how internet forums are...sometimes it's hard to weed out the useful, factual information.

Also, I can't get your link to work...would be very interested in reading it.

Try this.  The directions are in the link.  Sorry about giving you a bogus link.

http://www.tva.gov/employment/ops_maint/testing.htm

Edit:  I tried the link and it worked.

[Starkist]

You're right.  I shouldn't have painted those guys in a negative light like that.  Your point about being a good test taker is well taken.  My only point earlier was that being a good test taker doesn't show you the whole picture.  Listen, before I make my point just know I'm not saying the test is worthless or shouldn't be used.  I'm just making a point that maybe we can talk about.  The people who are better test takers have an important skill, but the C student who gets a 1500 on his SAT's is still a C student.  He might have an amazing intellect, but after the POSS what comes next?  A year or so of training.  Maybe all things being equal, the guy who needs to practice harder for the POSS and uses strategies so he can "barely" pass would make a better employee down the road because he has the work ethic and study skills to excel in a training enviornment like that.

Either way, if I get a chance again someday I will bust my a$$ and do what I can and if my best is good enough maybe I will have better results.  If not, you guys are right and I'm clearly not cut out for this job.  I will keep my eye open in the meantime and research some other career choices around the plant.

I agree with you to an extent, but the point of the test isnt to determine intellect. Grace under pressure if you will. The training program is what makes you prove your intellect. Who knows if pizza boy happened to guess properly? Nothing. That will be determined when he goes through training.

[MacGyver]

Starkist ... Not So Fast!  (re: POSS = grace under fire)  Why would the utilities do that?  Right or Wrong it is an APT'TI'TUDE test.  It is a predictor of power plant operator success ... period.  If the POSS/MASS is to stressful or problo'matic then it will show in the score.  PEACE! 

[Starkist]

Starkist ... Not So Fast!  (re: POSS = grace under fire)  Why would the utilities do that?  Right or Wrong it is an APT'TI'TUDE test.  It is a predictor of power plant operator success ... period.  If the POSS/MASS is to stressful or problo'matic then it will show in the score.  PEACE! 

Not a big fan of hemingway, are you?

[H-D FLH]

I hear what you're saying but with every reply comes more ambiguity.  Why the attitude toward me because I am inquiring why a guy who attempts 10 out of 30+ math questions gets recommended and others don't?  I only came to this forum for some answers and to share.  In fact, if a friend of mine in Ops didn't express his opinion of the POSS test being a mediocre (at best) judge of one's ability to learn his job, then I wouldn't have posted.  I felt I did well on the test, but obviously I didn't do well on what I answered OR I didn't answer enough.  Because I will never know, what's wrong with throwing a few feelers out there online to try to figure it out? 

HydroDave63...you have done nothing but passive aggressively stomp on me for asking questions instead of actually offering answers.  I get it, I failed...I'm an idiot.  Thank you for your time. 

I assume you are referring to me.  I did do 10 Questions but the Poss Test I took was the short math version

[drayer54]

Assembly: Much like the practice test but more difficult.

Charts and graphs: EXACTLY like the practice test.

Mechanical concepts: Much like the practice test.

Math:......The algebra is very much like the practice test.

So in other words, it's exactly like the samples they provide?

[misteree]

I personally think waiting for the test results may be the worst part. I just took the POSS test this week and am waiting to hear back about my score, and I will tell you... it's kind of stressful.

The practice tests helped a lot. But I wish I had done more research and found this forum before I took it. I wish I knew that you were graded on the questions answered.... not the whole thing... If that's the case, then I may have done okay, but I've also learned to not get your hopes up. However, the test is still nerve wrecking as it is, practice test or not. Though I DO suggest taking the practice tests. Have someone time you, this way when you time get timed you have no control over stopping the timer and you're put under "real" pressure. Otherwise, the practice tests aren't as helpful.

[DuckAndCover]

I passed both on the first attempt, MASS and POSS.

I would be surprised if I had more than five or six questions wrong on the entire POSS exam.

With the MASS there was one section that gave me a bit of a hurdle, that one with 20 problems and they pertain to "determine how the finished part should look" and we were basically given 20 minutes, so in theory one minute per problem, I didn't finish that section, I had 13 problems done and 7 that I didn't finish, but I am certain that 12 of those 13 were correct. I thought it was better to have the most correct answers possible than to rush through it and wind up with a crap-shot.


There wasn't a single section on the POSS that I didn't finish. I've seldom encountered a test that I didn't do well on except for some Accounting exams (reading/analyzing financial forms/statements is one thing, preparing them and reconciling them is an entirely different matter) and some Calculus exams where I had to really go into over-drive to make Cs and Bs.


Virtually everybody in the nuclear program at the community college failed the POSS on their first attempt, and most of them failed again on their second attempt. However, everybody passed the MASS on their first attempt.

When sitting around outside of class and talking with fellow students, I kept my opinion to myself that the POSS was an easy test as almost everybody I was speaking with had failed the test their first attempt and then most failed it the second time.


I didn't do any sort of "study" for the MASS/POSS, I simply made it a point to try to get a good night's sleep, eat well in the morning, and go into the exam relaxed and ready to take the tests.


The POSS parts that pertain to reading comprehension, I would suggest reading the questions first and then scanning the paragraphs to find the relevant information/answers. I tend to read incredibly fast and I remember almost everything I read (to the point where when it comes to light reading/novels I can read a 300 page novel in 4-6 hours depending on how I feel that day and then remember entire paragraphs/pages later, and I can read 200-300 page books on political theory/foreign relations/etc in 10-12 hours). Even still, I read the questions before reading the paragraphs and only read the paragraphs through in their entirety after I had answered all the questions that I was able to answer without thoroughly reading the paragraphs, then I thoroughly read the paragraphs, answered the rest of the questions, checked my answers by reading through everything again, and moved on.

The MASS parts that required visualizing "which way should you make this rod turn to make this rod turn clock-wise" (involving one rod that is up against another rod that is up against another rod, etc) I had to more or less construct a make-shift group of rods using two pencils and the click eraser to get a real image of what I was dealing with. I have trouble picturing those things in my head so I like to see a little model/demo.


I don't know my exact scores and I am uncertain if I will ever be able to find out, or how I would go about finding out, but I would wager that I had an incredibly high score on the POSS, possibly close to perfect, while I probably had a comfortable yet not so high score on the MASS. If I had to take a shot in the dark, on a 100% scale, I might have managed a 98% on the POSS and an 89 to 91 percent on the MASS.

Last year when I was thinking of the US Border Patrol as a career I scored a 98 on their exam but then I decided that it wasn't worth the hassle/cost to move to the Southwest border (which might entail California) to make $35,000 dollars per year in a career where I would be thrown to the wolves if I had to use my weapon to defend myself/my partners. Just like those two agents who opened fire on a drug cartel jeep that was trying to run them down, they spent several years in prison before Bush commuted their sentences and had them released, but they were not pardoned, merely commuted/early release, so they are still felons for life, with all the detriments to employment that the felon status entails, along with the accompanying loss of civil liberties.

I had also tested for a police department in a coastal city that was about 1,100 miles away, I was one point away from a perfect score on the written test and the physical was pass/fail and I passed, but instead of immediately bringing people in for interviews as was their original plan, they had a budget crisis and a hiring freeze. It wasn't until 18 months later when they were out of the hiring freeze, by which time my application (including my test scores) was 15 months stale. I was invited to come and test again but I decided that having made one trip, which entailed about 19.5 hours of driving (along with approx 38-40 gallons of gas) just to get there, in addition to a hotel for two days while I was there, had cost enough, and that I was not going to expend more money chasing a job that was probably going to be given to a local anyway.


So it came to be that I decided that my father's career wasn't all that bad, he always had something neat to say about his work, he was always fixing things around the house, fixing computers, building computers, fixing computers for others, so why not go study electronic engineering technology and see where I could go with that. I figured it would be a reasonable addition to my business degree and that I would have the management/administration side covered and then I could add some technical stuff to that and maybe work a few years in something technical and be tapped for a supervisor/manager role. My first semester in the electronic degree program I had an opening in my schedule so I filled it with a nuclear industry fundamentals class just to see what it was about, get some insight into the industry... Also, I figured it would be an easy A with only a few essays and maybe a term paper.

The class was very well conducted, the professor was very professional, I believe I built up a rapport with him and things went well. I'd say that probably six or seven weeks into the class I knew that I was going to go for both the Nuclear Engineering Technology and Electronic Engineering Technology and try to get into the nuclear industry.




When it comes to tests it is important to always be relaxed, well-rested, well-fed, properly hydrated, and make sure you use the bathroom before testing begins. If you tend to have stomach problems, take something to help settle your stomach before going into the test. Depending on the nature of the test, as in the test material/subject, you may want to spend hours or days studying.



In my experience tests that require moderate to significant levels of study would be Law class tests, Calculus tests, Chemistry tests, Accounting tests, AC/DC/electrical tests, etc.

Tests where you can just show up and take the test would include, Police written exams, MASS/POSS, Political Science tests, Philosophy tests, Management/Administration tests (assuming you paid attention in class and know the terms/theories that the test will encompass), Algebra tests, and things of that nature.



Not to beat up on anybody who may have failed the exam but my view of the MASS/POSS test is that it basically asks the question, "did you graduate high school by occupying a chair and having a pulse or did you actually earn your diploma and learn something useful while in high school?" and if you were educated to a 10th grade level and understand Algebra 1, maybe some Algebra 2, in addition to having 9th-10th grade reading comprehension skills, the POSS test won't be a problem.

Basically the company wants to know, "did you earn your way out of high school, did you deserve your diploma, or did they just hand you a diploma and push you out with the rest of the kids."


The SAT was more challenging than the POSS test. Likewise the ACT was more challenging than the POSS test. High school AP examinations were more challenging than any of the reading components of the POSS test.


In theory anybody who has a high school diploma should be able to pass the MASS/POSS.

However, not all high school diplomas are equal, some have AP/honors/etc, some are Summa Cum Laude, Magna Cum Laude, Cum Laude, others are the bare minimum needed to graduate with remedial classes, and others are social diplomas simply handed out for reasons related to esteem building and inflating graduation rates. Thus the industry needs to have a standardized test to determine if you are a legitimate high school graduate who earned the diploma you have, or if you are a social graduate.

[a|F]

I'd congratulate you for passing, but it appears you've patted yourselfon the back enough already. Was the point of your post to help others, or show how smart you think you are?  Who is John Galt?

[Fermi2]

My point is to tell people to just relax and take the test, if they were able to do well on the SAT or high school standardized tests they'll do fine. One other key piece of advice, scan 10-15 problems ahead and answer those that seem the easiest. If any problem is taking more than one minute of your time, skip it and come back later as time permits. Also, sections of the test are recycled later on, at least in our case they were.

We had an exact repeat of the first math section of 20-30 questions, as section 4. Even though I didn't have the sheet/book of what I answered for the first time these 20-30 questions appeared, they were identical questions, I recognized that, and I remembered my answers, so I quickly filled things in, did a quick double check, and didn't waste time doing another series of conversions and figuring.

Work fast, do your conversions once, try to commit the basic conversions to memory, know things such as quarts in a gallon, pints in a quart, pints in a gallon, ounces in a gallon, don't get tripped up with units of measurement that you might not know conversions for, make sure you know the conversions before you sit down for the test.




I always tend to go on and on and write a lot. I'm not much for short posts.

Sorry if I offended you or came off as self-edifying, neither was my intention.

I took your post to be exactly as you just described. Anything you posted about yourself seemed to be simply to provide a backdrop. We all have our individual talents. I took your post as meaning "Hey I'm extremely well read but my opinion is if you did well in High School and your doing well was due to hard work you'll pass the POSS"

The key is relax, get rest and eat well before the exam. The fact you're in the room taking it means you can pass it. I think Nukes have problems with this exam because they get wrapped around the work quickly implication because it is a timed test and face it, most Nukes are not wired that way when they are confronted with an exam.

The only thing I would add is guys who have been away from nuclear for awhile tend to fudge this test simply because cobwebs settle in. It happened to one of the smartest guys I know, he passed it the second time then blew the interview.

[HydroDave63]

Later that day one of them called and said that they were not happy with my lack of management experience and were pursuing other candidates. When I told my father about it he said, "you should have told them that they should make their job description and posting reflect what they actually want instead of calling it entry-level, they wasted hours of your time. If they want somebody with years of experience then it is not entry level."

This dichotomy occurs often at dysfunctional corporations that operate at several levels of incompetency:

1. HR too lazy to do proper screenouts up front, and a hidden agenda for staffing quotas, thus creating nebulous interview questions so vague that by design both Roseanne Barr and Hyman Rickover can be determined to be the best candidate.

2. Mushy middle managers that willfully fail to resist #1, and go along with the party line. Plus, in their world, doing interviews is a great way to filling in those otherwise blank spots in their Franklin-Covey^TM "7 Habits of Highly Defective People" dayplanners. Oh, and getting to play polyester-clad-voice-of-authority to those Gen Y college guys with bird's nest hair, and occasional smokin hotties who make the final round of interviews. Who needs eHarmony when you have hiring authority?

3. Muddling senior executives that spend most of their time surrounded by lackeys in #2 , and bounce from one failing project to another like a 3 year old with a bag of M&M's. As living embodiments of "The Peter Principle" available in paperback, their vision of how the company should run is really just an accessory of their own view of personal greatness, reinforced by the expensive people at focus groups with behavioral psych degrees. These executives are rarely in the office because there is always something cool to do somewhere else, but they hate going to actual industry events because then they just get all of that negative reinforcement hearing how some other company can run a site with 0.7 FTE/MW, yet their plants run at 1.2/MW and have issues. They live in envy of the high-paid gel-haired consultants, and focus their attention and efforts on landing one of those sweet gigs personally, rather than keep the company healthy for the next generation to join, grow and prosper.

[Fermi2]

It's simple. They aren't hiring guys to be career Non License Operators. NOW once a guy gets there..
Also some utilities have mandatory Up or Outs.

[rossch]

I just want to say this is one of the rare times I post on forums and after my recent experience I felt compelled to do so.

I recently took the POSS and MBST test for a position at Exelon, overall it was a very difficult test and it takes a lot of concentration and focus to complete and pass the tests.  For anyone out there who is about to take the test here is a bit of advice

a. If you are reading this, your first step is already complete. This website is the starting point for all of your info and study material, as well as help with your concerns.
b. Do not immediately post a topic asking for help.  If you don't want this bad enough to spend countless hours doing research, no topic or thread can help you.  EVERYTHING, and I repeat EVERYTHING you need to know can be found through that box up there on the top right aka search.
c. Study, Study, Study and do not underestimate neither one of the tests.
d. Do your best, stay focused, follow the advice that was given on the other posts.  I did not finish 3 of the sections on the POSS but I still gave it my best effort until the last question.

The structure of the test has been posted numerous times so again do research and you will find how many questions per section and how much time.

To the gentleman who took time out of their days to post different topics, to reply to different people, and to share their experience and knowledge, I sincerely thank you from the bottom of my heart.  I am a good test taker and I am certain beyond any doubt that without your help and input I would not have passed these tests.  

I just got the news that I passed the BMST and I am beyond excited to hear back from them for an interview.  
Regardless if i am offered a position or not (lets hope that I am) I thank you gentleman for helping me get this far.

Thank You.

[Fermi2]

Great advice and great job!

[GLW]

Great advice and great job!

Came to talk about the POSS.

They got a building down at the nuke site, it's called FFD,

where you walk in, you get injected, inspected, detected, infected, neglected and selected.  

I went down to get my physical examination one day, and I walked in, I sat down,

got good and drunk the night before, so I looked and felt my best when I went in that morning.

`Cause I wanted to look like the all-American kid from New York City,

man I wanted, I wanted to feel like the all-, I wanted to be the all American kid from New York,

and I walked in, sat down,

I was hung down, brung down, hung up, and all kinds o' mean nasty ugly things.

And I waked in and sat down and they gave me a piece of paper, said, "Kid, see the Broadzilla, Room 604."

And I went up there, I said, "Broad, I want to SCRAM.

I mean, I wanna, I wanna SCRAM.  SCRAM.  

I wanna, I wanna see, I wanna see steam and ice and big fat cables in my teeth.

Eat dead burnt twinkies.

I mean SCRAM, SCRAM, SCRAM, SCRAM."  

And I started jumpin up and down yelling, "SCRAM, SCRAM,"

and Broadzilla started jumpin up and down with me and we was both jumping up and down yelling, "SCRAM, SCRAM."  

And the VP came over, pinned a red badge on me, sent me down the hall, and said,

"You're our boy."


The post above is satire and is in no way endorsed, condoned or encouraged by any nuclear professional association, entity or organization. The post above is solely satire and in no way represents the standards or expectations of any NRC or Agreement State licensed facility in the United States of America, nor does it reflect the views, standards or policies of nukeworker.com.
But it is funny,.......................................................to some people.

[slickneck44]

Hey guys

I have been a lurker for about a week now and just finished taking both the POSS and BMST test for nuclear ops.  I passed the POSS.  I'd just like to say thank you all for all your comments and great information.  Because I have been lurking and passed the test, I thought I'd help out as well and give what I thought about the test and maybe help out.  

For study material, I only used the practice test given and the ASVAB book by Barron.  I only had 3 full days to study from the day I found out I am eligable to take the test to taking the actual test.  

Here is what I thought about the test

Assembly
A tad more difficult than the practice exam.  But, if you can breeze through the practice exam then you should have no problem with the real thing.  The ASVAB book I had had different "assembly" problems.  I did them anyway.  I don't know if it helped much, but probably didn't hurt.  
I finished.  20/20 maybe missed 2.

Mechanical
Not much to say about this.  You either know it of you don't.  Most of them were like the practice test.  A couple tricky ones had to do with which way a valve would go if turning the valve one way.  Some others had some elaberate (if you close this valve, which will close that valve, which will open this valve, etc.) questions.  If you understand very basic physics and are able to see "3D" when looking at a 2D picture, you should be fine. 
42/42  maybe missed 4

Tables / Graphs
This one worried me a bit when I was awaiting the results.  The graph on the exam was about the same as the practice test, just more problems.  Try finding a method that makes as fast as possible.  I didn't think I answered enough but I guess it was good enough.  The ASVAB book does not have graphs but justing practicing the practice test was fine.  
45/60  maybe missed 1
The graph part was much harder than the practice test.  Each line in the graph was by 2 or 10 (depending on x or y axis).  This was different.  Also, the lines were only labled at the very top and they criss crossed all over the place which made it difficult to follow back to the source.  With that being said, I somehow managed to complete that section.
20/20 maybe missed 2

Reading
Not much to say here.  All science based material.  Their were 5 passages.  With the first 2, I was able to answer most of the questions without even reading (about density, viscosity, etc).  One thing to note is I noticed a bunch of "trick questions".  If you just scanned for an answer and didn't read before and after the sentence that has the key word or definition, you would get it wrong.  
36/36 maybe missed 5

Math
Obviously the worst one.  I have an engineering degree and still didn't finish this section.  Do what is told everywhere else on this site, skip problems that are 2 maybe 3 conversions away and get all the easy ones out of the way first.  It is basically the same as the practice exam just more of them.  There are more problems on the real test with decimal places.  This can throw you off.  And there are answers that are "N".   Everytime I got one, I had to redo the problem to double check.  Probably cost me a bit.  ASVAB was mostly different, but helped me out for the BMST.
38/46 maybe missed 3

BMST
Know all the basic formulas (circuits, volume, TRIG, etc).  There were quite a few trig problems.  The ciruits killed me.  Know the cicuit symbols.  I had no clue on that.  

About a week ago I applied for this postion and I already passed the POSS.  There isn't much "studying" that needs to be done other than working on your timing.  

About me:  I have an engineering degree.  Been in the work force for about 2 years.  Now I'm just waiting on the interview.

I hope this helped.  Good luck.  

[Smart People]

Congratulations! And thanks for the info.

Good luck on the job offer.

[UncaBuffalo]

There isn't much "studying" that needs to be done other than working on your timing.  

I agree...but, well worth the "study" to get that timing...



Congrats on passing...and good luck with the interview!  

[rjpijan]

Just trying to get an idea of the weighting on each part of the hiring process? Assuming my medical portion is a breeze how tough are the interviews? Are they typically a panel interview of multiple people or just one person? Once you pass the testing, are able to re-apply for interviews at other plants with the same company without having to re-take the POSS & BMST?

[Fermi2]

How hard would it be for you to use the search function?

[HydroDave63]

Just trying to get an idea of the weighting on each part of the hiring process? Assuming my medical portion is a breeze how tough are the interviews? Are they typically a panel interview of multiple people or just one person? Once you pass the testing, are able to re-apply for interviews at other plants with the same company without having to re-take the POSS & BMST?

What does it matter? Either you pass or don't pass. Either you convince the panel to hire you or not. Focus on being the best YOU that you can be, not worrying over things not under your control.

[Operator]

Typically the POSS is not shared, but I have heard of candidates getting one company to share with another. It is not unheard of, just not the norm. It cost money for a company to source, recruit, interview, and on board an applicant. So why would one company pay for you to use their resources to support your hiring process elsewhere?

The BMST is an Exelon thing, IIRC. Is this an Exelon job? If an Exelon job, be prepared for a Targeted interview using the STAR interview process.

Search for Targeted Interview and STAR interview.

[ddickey]

Most of the study material was helpful. IMO the biggest difference was that the mechanical comprehension was harder than the practice test and less time too. Sure would be nice to know how they score these tests though.

[MacGyver]

Most of the study material was helpful. IMO the biggest difference was that the mechanical comprehension was harder than the practice test and less time too. Sure would be nice to know how they score these tests though.

We've posted on how "we" believe it's scored in the past.  If you need help finding those threads let us know & maybe we can find them for you.

When you get your results give us an update.

Mac