Just took the POSS/MASS/BMST, a reflection

[HydroDave63]

Here's where it gets odd.  The proctor told us flat out to narrow the answer down to 2 , maybe 3 options and then take an EDUCATED GUESS!!!  This flies in the face of everything I have been told or read about the test.  The assistant OPS manager told me to not worry if I left "10-15%" of each sections' problems blank!  So that means I can only leave 3 out of 30 empty?  That didn't sound right either.  Also, the proctor told us the test is graded accumulatively.  I've read here on this forum that isn't true...you "fail" one section and you fail the whole test. One Navy guy there even told us he heard if you answer 50% or more of the questions at at of 70% or better you pass! Huh?

I had a big long witty reply brewing about believing 4th hand anecdotes, etc. but I'll paraphrase the words of one of my least favorite NNPS instructors ages ago that turned out to be quite wise: Study as hard as you can, show all your work , and don't put that pencil down until they take the test sheet away from you. Notice that nowhere in that advice was how to game the test, guess/don't guess, 10-15% is okay, etc.

There really isn't any light to be shed on inconsistent test strategies, grading, etc. Each year, thousands of potential power plant operators (whether nuke, fossil or hydro) take the same standard EEI POSS test that has been in use for decades. A large proportion of the applicants receive a score too low for consideration for hire, and frankly that is a good thing. The test is a valid screen of aptitude, or the utilities that pay those pricy EEI dues would discontinue its use.

[Divinitus]

I had a big long witty reply brewing about believing 4th hand anecdotes, etc. but I'll paraphrase the words of one of my least favorite NNPS instructors ages ago that turned out to be quite wise: Study as hard as you can, show all your work , and don't put that pencil down until they take the test sheet away from you. Notice that nowhere in that advice was how to game the test, guess/don't guess, 10-15% is okay, etc.

There really isn't any light to be shed on inconsistent test strategies, grading, etc. Each year, thousands of potential power plant operators (whether nuke, fossil or hydro) take the same standard EEI POSS test that has been in use for decades. A large proportion of the applicants receive a score too low for consideration for hire, and frankly that is a good thing. The test is a valid screen of aptitude, or the utilities that pay those pricy EEI dues would discontinue its use.

I appreciate the reply.  I did study hard and go to the bell andnot waste time, but I think it's human nature to know where you were weak on a test OR how badly or closely you failed.  I'm so lost I feel like taking the test again could be a waste of everyone's time.  I wasn't really trying to "game" the test, but everyone has a different story to tell about the POSS and no AO's at my plant besides my best friend seem to remember anything on the test. 

Honestly, I don't feel it's gaming the test when simple advice like, make a guess or never guess is handed out.  The problem is that adviceis all over the map.  One last thing, I'm not trying to sound bitter or pouty, but I will say this.  I have worked in a Nuke facility for 10 years.  I know some of the people who pass this test and work as AO's at my plant.  Some of the pizza cooks and shoe salesmen that passed the test aren't the best AO's.  Most are good/great, but it would serve the plant better IMO if the POSS came with some human interpretation of the scores so maybe the personal interaction could be used as a way to figure out if Person A came close to recommended, but wow they sure did blow us away during the interview.  At my plant, if you pass you're in...which is great, but the flip side is now I have an HR lady tell me I fail and can't tell me why, it's just what Scantron said.

No biggie I guess.  If I knew how the test is graded it would help, but all I can do is hope someday they let me retake it.  I also don't feel like I'm trying to game or play the test because, if what some of what I have heard is true, than this test causes you to ignore some test taking impulses that have been instilled in us from a young age, like narrowing down choices and educated guessing.

Thanks for reading guys, any other info/comments are welcome and I look forward to maybe someday sharing some better news with you all.

[C7win]

The test encourages rushing IMO.

I disagree.  Approach it as a stress test next time you take it.  A lot of people stress out when they feel rushed which results in stupid mistakes.  Sounds like you just psyched yourself out.  Don't worry about how scoring works and do your best.  RELAX.

[Starkist]

What's to guess about? Its 7th grade math, simple graphs, and extremely basic mechanical analysis...  Learn from your mistakes, and apply them to your next testing session; when/if you get one.  You're a navy guy. Think "immediate actions" here. You dont have time to think about anything, you just "do". Apply that concept to your testing next time. theres nothing hard about that test besides the time constraint.

Id say, make sure you are actually "practicing" as well. Its too easy to just go through the test. Have someone time you while you go through it. Be strict and honest with yourself.

[queefer]

Hello everyone!  I thought I would share my recent feelings on failing the POSS test for Entergy this week. 

First, make no mistake, I am NOT trying to hide my role in failing.  Straight up, I didn't get it done.  I would however, like to shed some light on some inconsistencies regarding test strategies, grading, etc.

Like most people, I downloaded and took the EEI practice test, which I found VERY helpful.  One of my best friend's is an AO so I had that resource.  Some of his managers even took me aside and gave me some "sage" advice.  I studied for about 3-4 weeks before the exam, ate a big breakfast, slept well, the whole nine.

First, I will say that I didn't completely finish ANY section of the test.  First section was Assembly and I skipped ones that were too difficult or taking me too long.  I probably missed 5-6 out of 24?  All of the sections were like this except for tables/graphs and math.  I didn't finish the 60 table problems in 4 minutes or the graph problems in the same time.  Math was oddly my most comfortable test.  I got hung up on conversions with about 8 to go so I went to Algebra which i smoked through and then completed 5 word problems.  My friend who is an AO didn't even complete that many and passed so I know I did enough, at least on that section.  In fact, he didn't finish ANY section, like me.

Here's where it gets odd.  The proctor told us flat out to narrow the answer down to 2 , maybe 3 options and then take an EDUCATED GUESS!!!  This flies in the face of everything I have been told or read about the test.  The assistant OPS manager told me to not worry if I left "10-15%" of each sections' problems blank!  So that means I can only leave 3 out of 30 empty?  That didn't sound right either.  Also, the proctor told us the test is graded accumulatively.  I've read here on this forum that isn't true...you "fail" one section and you fail the whole test. One Navy guy there even told us he heard if you answer 50% or more of the questions at at of 70% or better you pass! Huh?

I don't know.  I'm kind of bummed out obviously, but it would be nice if more information on this test came out or was at least more consistent.  I felt pretty confident in my answers, I wasn't guessing or feeling lost.  When I encountered a problem that gave me trouble I skipped it.  It also compounds things that i work in a Nuke plant and in a specific department that will never allow me to take the test again.  My friend had to bust serious balls just to get me in to take it this one time.  The other kick to the nuts was what Ive witnessed in a Nuke plant and my AO friend sees on a daily basis.  The test encourages rushing IMO.  At no point in time have I ever heard of someone needing to rush while doing their job in a Nuclear facility.  just seems like an odd test for an industry that beats into our heads: Slow down, review, peer checking, STAR, etc.. 

Thanks for hearing me out guys...any info, comments would be appreciated.

I am amazed at how cryptic and secretive the way this test is scored is!! How is it wieghed? quantity vs quality? I too failed to get the highly coveted " recommended" rating on my poss test... yet the HR lady will not divulge any details about my test regarding what sections I failed or what my weaknesses are!  Possibly I rushed and answered too many incorrectly for the number I completed? If I had to guess i would swear that my cumulative score would have to be over 90%... correct and 60-70% completed.... thoughts .. postulations.. theories hypothesis?  anyone anyone?

[Divinitus]

What's to guess about? Its 7th grade math, simple graphs, and extremely basic mechanical analysis...  Learn from your mistakes,(Wow.  This is what I'm asking about.  What were my mistakes? Can you tell me?  I don't know what they were, no one does. Thanks for the insight though.) and apply them to your next testing session; when/if you get one.  You're a navy guy. (No, I'm not!) Think "immediate actions" here. You dont have time to think about anything, you just "do". Apply that concept to your testing next time. theres nothing hard about that test besides the time constraint.

Id say, make sure you are actually "practicing" as well. Its too easy to just go through the test. Have someone time you while you go through it. Be strict and honest with yourself.

Thanks for the opinion.  So, another person knocking me for trying to find out how this test is evaluated.  Why is it people who pass this test can't tell you why and people who fail are told to try harder?  I did time myself and I did practice.  I'm not saying I was perfect, I'm just wondering if maybe you need to be on this test, which is fine, but I was just looking for that information here.  It's okay to research strategies for the SAT's for example, but I get the impression that POSS "strategy" is a negative thing and by passing the test using strategies gleaned from a resource like this one, it somehow cheapens a passing score and means I would make a substandard AO.  Did I mention their are pizza cooks in Ops at my plant?

I was just looking for some concrete information like, "If you get one wrong at all, you'll fail."  At least then I could look at possibly moving a little slower next time instead of trying to finish every question, which no one in my group of 13 testers did and 6 of them got jobs.

[Fermi2]

It depends on the utility though in general if you do not get enough questions in a section done you fail said section even if you got them all right and the guy who did get the minimum number of questions done misses a certain percentage yet still passes.

When I took the POSS I finished every section with time to spare and from what I heard I got them all correct. So my advice to you is finish all the sections and get al the questions right, it's a time proven winning strategy.

[HydroDave63]

but I get the impression that POSS "strategy" is a negative thing and by passing the test using strategies gleaned from a resource like this one, it somehow cheapens a passing score and means I would make a substandard AO. 

Looking for a "strategy" to pass a test strongly implies that you lack the confidence and/or knowledge level to pass the test. IF said strategies could raise a marginal fail to a barely passing, THEN yes it would cheapen a passing score and possibly result in substandard AOs.

Did I mention their are pizza cooks in Ops at my plant?

Did I mention that they passed the test, and you didn't?


I was just looking for some concrete information like, "If you get one wrong at all, you'll fail." 

Obviously a passing score allows some questions to be missed. Stop QQ'ing and cowboy up, histrionics won't look good to the Ops Department you want to join (that is probably reading this thread)

At least then I could look at possibly moving a little slower next time instead of trying to finish every question, which no one in my group of 13 testers did and 6 of them got jobs.

Six of them showed up with adequate knowledge.

Look, there IS life outside of Ops. There are plenty of electricians, mechanics and HP techs on this site waxing nicer cars than I'll ever drive. Find what you are good at doing, and work hard at it and prosper!

[Divinitus]

It depends on the utility though in general if you do not get enough questions in a section done you fail said section even if you got them all right and the guy who did get the minimum number of questions done misses a certain percentage yet still passes.

When I took the POSS I finished every section with time to spare and from what I heard I got them all correct. So my advice to you is finish all the sections and get al the questions right, it's a time proven winning strategy.

Well, I guess I can just chalk it up to not having the chops.  You finished the whole test with time to spare and was perfect.  I know the test I took would never allow me to do that.  This is the annoying part though, if your situation was the only way to pass I would totally feel not cut out for the job and that would be the end of it, but there are guys on this very forum who claim to have attempted 10 math questions and received a recommended score.

[Divinitus]

I hear what you're saying but with every reply comes more ambiguity.  Why the attitude toward me because I am inquiring why a guy who attempts 10 out of 30+ math questions gets recommended and others don't?  I only came to this forum for some answers and to share.  In fact, if a friend of mine in Ops didn't express his opinion of the POSS test being a mediocre (at best) judge of one's ability to learn his job, then I wouldn't have posted.  I felt I did well on the test, but obviously I didn't do well on what I answered OR I didn't answer enough.  Because I will never know, what's wrong with throwing a few feelers out there online to try to figure it out? 

HydroDave63...you have done nothing but passive aggressively stomp on me for asking questions instead of actually offering answers.  I get it, I failed...I'm an idiot.  Thank you for your time. 

[drayer54]

HydroDave63...you have done nothing but passive aggressively stomp on me for asking questions instead of actually offering answers.  I get it, I failed...I'm an idiot.  Thank you for your time.  

You failed.... Study. Practice. Try Again. Repeat. THAT SIMPLE!
Skip the multiple posts of sadness, blaming others, and crying about the test. Everyone else is taking that same test and no utility cares how accurate or fair you think it is.

If this too saddens you.... Keep looking and skip the studying.

[queefer]

It would seem that with all the conflicting information regarding the criteria for passing this test..that possibly it is subjective.. relative to to the candidate?  Anecdotal evidence suggests that differerent people taking the same test are able to answer less/more questions.. less/ more accurately and still pass this test?  The results are secret... however so we can neither confirm nor deny this theory..

[Divinitus]

You failed.... Study. Practice. Try Again. Repeat. THAT SIMPLE!
Skip the multiple posts of sadness, blaming others, and crying about the test. Everyone else is taking that same test and no utility cares how accurate or fair you think it is.

If this too saddens you.... Keep looking and skip the studying.

I guess you missed the part of my posts where I mentioned NOT being able to take the test again because I work in a department that is routinely $hit on by everyone in the plant, in much the way you have on me in this thread.  Why can't people like yourself admit to not having ANY clue how this test might be evaluated instead of telling my to study and stop whining.  You know you don't have to comment right?  Thanks for the input...just wondering HOW I may have failed in my approach on a test in what may be the only time I can take it.  Think long and hard and you'll know what department I work in.  

Sorry to everyone for pissing you off with my questions, I just thought a test that has an 85% failure rate and ignores education level might have some unique approaches or strategies associated with it.  Sorry for waisting your time.  

[DSO]

Divinitus,

I think to summarize what everyone is trying to say is: " You studied and tried your best on the POSS Exam...but........you do not inherently have whatever it takes to pass this non-biased exam....so admit it, accept it...get over it...and move on without further unfruitful questions and attempts to analyze it. Your was wasting your and everyone elses time   

[queefer]

Divinitus,

I think to summarize what everyone is trying to say is: " You studied and tried your best on the POSS Exam...but........you do not inherently have whatever it takes to pass this non-biased exam....so admit it, accept it...get over it...and move on without further unfruitful questions and attempts to analyze it. Your was wasting your and everyone elses time   

Gee... divinitus asked some polite questions about the POSS test... and everyone here jumped on his back.. what gives?  There have been many posts by people looking for tips on how to pass this test why all the hostility towards this guy?  Maybe he doesnt have what it takes... but you have to admit he has not given up.. dont many people take this test several times before passing? 

[Fermi2]

Gee... divinitus asked some polite questions about the POSS test... and everyone here jumped on his back.. what gives?  There have been many posts by people looking for tips on how to pass this test why all the hostility towards this guy?  Maybe he doesnt have what it takes... but you have to admit he has not given up.. dont many people take this test several times before passing? 

Not one person here slammed the guy for failing. What people did challenge was his refusal to accept that the replies given did not fully answer his question. It gets irritating when vanilla snow cones do this sort of thing.

I'm not certain if you are in the industry yet or not but this is light compared to a normal day at work. It's a body contact sport, people get bruised and those who understand that tend to heal, succeed then get bruised again.

[jams723]

Gee... divinitus asked some polite questions about the POSS test... and everyone here jumped on his back.. what gives?  There have been many posts by people looking for tips on how to pass this test why all the hostility towards this guy?  Maybe he doesnt have what it takes... but you have to admit he has not given up.. dont many people take this test several times before passing? 

I do not know about current test takers, but back in the day when I took it everyone we hired passed on the first attempt.

[DDMurray]

This is a simple case.  The exams are designed to weed out potential hires who lack the aptitude to succeed in a technically and mentally challenging training program.  Unlike others here, I struggled with the POSS, but I passed.  If I had taken it 20 years ago I'm pretty sure I would have done much better.  Following the advice in these forums, I practiced so that I could improve my speed on things that I knew or used to know.   Too many times, we try to find a shortcut to succeed at something that requires hard work and dedication.  The guidelines and recommendations are pretty straightforward:  work fast and skip questions that you don't know.  If you have time go back.  If you can eliminate distractors then guess rather than leave one blank.  In the end, if you have the aptitude, you'll have answered enough questions correctly.  Here's what the writer of the exam says,
http://www2.eei.org/eeitests/onlineproducts/Brochures/Tips.aspx
To say that the advice to guess if you can eliminate distractors "flies in the face of everything the OP read.." leads to me believe that he isn't really owning the failure, or he didn't read the source documents.

[MacGyver]

In before the (Thread) LOCK ... ... Seriously though I believe if anyone follows the directions we have laid out in the POSS / TESTING forum then they are the best prepared they can be.  If you still don't pass then no other help will get you over the top.  Not everyone is/was meant to pass.  If you've failed twice then it's time to move on.

[weatherby460]

If there is one thing to really study for...i assume it would be complex algebra.

[storm13]

If there is one thing to really study for...i assume it would be complex algebra.

"Complex Algebra" on the POSS??

[Starkist]

Thanks for the opinion.  So, another person knocking me for trying to find out how this test is evaluated.  Why is it people who pass this test can't tell you why and people who fail are told to try harder?  I did time myself and I did practice.  I'm not saying I was perfect, I'm just wondering if maybe you need to be on this test, which is fine, but I was just looking for that information here.  It's okay to research strategies for the SAT's for example, but I get the impression that POSS "strategy" is a negative thing and by passing the test using strategies gleaned from a resource like this one, it somehow cheapens a passing score and means I would make a substandard AO.  Did I mention their are pizza cooks in Ops at my plant?

I was just looking for some concrete information like, "If you get one wrong at all, you'll fail."  At least then I could look at possibly moving a little slower next time instead of trying to finish every question, which no one in my group of 13 testers did and 6 of them got jobs.

What I said wasn't "opinion". I took the poss test with 3 hours of sleep after at a 16 hour drive the night before. If you stress out yourself, you will fail that test. That's kind of the point of the test.  I apologize for assuming you were navy, you mentioned a navy buddy, so I made the relation like that. 

No one here "knows" how the poss is graded, or the criteria of the questions.

Finally, who cares what their background is. That pizza cook (as you say it in a perceived derogatory sense) managed to pass that test that you weren't able to. Think about that before you decide to talk down upon that person. Some people are just good test takers, others are not.

If there is one thing to really study for...i assume it would be complex algebra.

No. I wasnt joking or exaggerating at all when I said it was 7th grade math. Its just a LOT of it in a short amount of time.

2x+7 = 3; solve for  x....  At most, practice graph reading and practice doing lots of math in a short amount of time.

[queefer]

This is a simple case.  The exams are designed to weed out potential hires who lack the aptitude to succeed in a technically and mentally challenging training program.  Unlike others here, I struggled with the POSS, but I passed.  If I had taken it 20 years ago I'm pretty sure I would have done much better.  Following the advice in these forums, I practiced so that I could improve my speed on things that I knew or used to know.   Too many times, we try to find a shortcut to succeed at something that requires hard work and dedication.  The guidelines and recommendations are pretty straightforward:  work fast and skip questions that you don't know.  If you have time go back.  If you can eliminate distractors then guess rather than leave one blank.  In the end, if you have the aptitude, you'll have answered enough questions correctly.  Here's what the writer of the exam says,
http://www2.eei.org/eeitests/onlineproducts/Brochures/Tips.aspx
To say that the advice to guess if you can eliminate distractors "flies in the face of everything the OP read.." leads to me believe that he isn't really owning the failure, or he didn't read the source documents.

DDmurray.. thank you for offering constructive honest advice .. without judgement or ridicule. Thats how its done boys

[Divinitus]

This is a simple case.  The exams are designed to weed out potential hires who lack the aptitude to succeed in a technically and mentally challenging training program.  Unlike others here, I struggled with the POSS, but I passed.  If I had taken it 20 years ago I'm pretty sure I would have done much better.  Following the advice in these forums, I practiced so that I could improve my speed on things that I knew or used to know.   Too many times, we try to find a shortcut to succeed at something that requires hard work and dedication.  The guidelines and recommendations are pretty straightforward:  work fast and skip questions that you don't know.  If you have time go back.  If you can eliminate distractors then guess rather than leave one blank.  In the end, if you have the aptitude, you'll have answered enough questions correctly.  Here's what the writer of the exam says,
http://www2.eei.org/eeitests/onlineproducts/Brochures/Tips.aspx
To say that the advice to guess if you can eliminate distractors "flies in the face of everything the OP read.." leads to me believe that he isn't really owning the failure, or he didn't read the source documents.

Thanks for the above information.  I think what my frustration boiled down to is something you mentioned.  It was my fault for being unprepared or not practicing this way, but I had some very intelligent people in OPS management take me aside and tell me to never guess and only answer a question if I know for absolutely sure it is the correct answer.  To hear after the fact from some good people on this forum that educated guessing is okay after you answer everything you know for sure and go back, well that just seems like 2 totally different pieces of information.  That's NOT why I failed obviously.  I was just simply trying to figure out what was fact versus fiction.  Everyone here knows how internet forums are...sometimes it's hard to weed out the useful, factual information.

Also, I can't get your link to work...would be very interested in reading it.

[Divinitus]

What I said wasn't "opinion". I took the poss test with 3 hours of sleep after at a 16 hour drive the night before. If you stress out yourself, you will fail that test. That's kind of the point of the test.  I apologize for assuming you were navy, you mentioned a navy buddy, so I made the relation like that. 

No one here "knows" how the poss is graded, or the criteria of the questions.

Finally, who cares what their background is. That pizza cook (as you say it in a perceived derogatory sense) managed to pass that test that you weren't able to. Think about that before you decide to talk down upon that person. Some people are just good test takers, others are not.
No. I wasnt joking or exaggerating at all when I said it was 7th grade math. Its just a LOT of it in a short amount of time.

2x+7 = 3; solve for  x....  At most, practice graph reading and practice doing lots of math in a short amount of time.

You're right.  I shouldn't have painted those guys in a negative light like that.  Your point about being a good test taker is well taken.  My only point earlier was that being a good test taker doesn't show you the whole picture.  Listen, before I make my point just know I'm not saying the test is worthless or shouldn't be used.  I'm just making a point that maybe we can talk about.  The people who are better test takers have an important skill, but the C student who gets a 1500 on his SAT's is still a C student.  He might have an amazing intellect, but after the POSS what comes next?  A year or so of training.  Maybe all things being equal, the guy who needs to practice harder for the POSS and uses strategies so he can "barely" pass would make a better employee down the road because he has the work ethic and study skills to excel in a training enviornment like that.

Either way, if I get a chance again someday I will bust my a$$ and do what I can and if my best is good enough maybe I will have better results.  If not, you guys are right and I'm clearly not cut out for this job.  I will keep my eye open in the meantime and research some other career choices around the plant.