Star

[LuckyKid]

How common are nukes who don't star re-enlist? If I star, I'm almost guaranteed to have to come back to Prototype if I want any shore duty. For myself, it would be less than ideal.

But I don't want to be the only MM3 on board, either, if it means permanent nub status.

[Gamecock]

How common are nukes who don't star re-enlist? If I star, I'm almost guaranteed to have to come back to Prototype if I want any shore duty. For myself, it would be less than ideal.

But I don't want to be the only MM3 on board, either, if it means permanent nub status.

In the nuclear world, knowledge (AKA Watchstation qualification) is more important then what you wear on your sleeve if your a blue shirt.  Your shipmates will respect you when you earn that respect.  The more watchstations you qualify...without being delinquent in quals... the more respect you'll earn.  For you, as a surface MM, you'll "arrive" when you qualify Chief Reactor Watch (CRW) if you become a primary mechanic (RM Division), or Chief Mechanical Operator (CMO) if you become a secondary mechanic (M division). 

So, don't worry about re-enlisting unless you want to.  You'll likely make MM2 off the exam.  STAR is nice.....you get $$$$ and automatic E5, but you'll still be an overpaid "nub" if you don't support the watchbill.

[93-383]

it goes in cycles dependant on commands. When I first reported to CVN-71 around 70% of nubs STAR'ed by the time I left, the command had sunk to a very low point and only around 20% of nubs STAR'ed. Last years E5 and E6 promotions where very high in some cases in excess of 90%. And some years the rate is around 10% advancment for E5, like I said it goes in cycles.

[Preciousblue1965]

GameCock is right.  Although Rank Has Its Privlages, in the nuke community is all about what you know and what you are qualified.  I can say that I would respect a MMC who knows how to run a plant and is qualified everything under the sun, than a MMCM who is utterly broke when it comes to operating a nuclear power plant.  Also in the nuke community, STAR babies are sometimes looked down at worse than MM3s because you only made rank due to raising your hand. 

Big picture, when you get qual'd SIR and get some time on the pond doing maintenance and some collateral duty experience, the rank will catch up to you.  And for the most part, YES you will have to go to Protohell if you re-up.  There are always exceptions but those come with either lengthy extensions, bad locations, or you have to have some pretty steller qual's under your belt. 

[withroaj]

I STAR reenlisted to become a Junior Staff Instructor in prototype, and I have some opinions on STAR reenlistment after some sea time.  To save myself typing time I will shamelessly quote myself from another thread to display my perfectly executed analysis again :

...I know this probably sounds like I am just trying to parrot the party line, but I think the decision to reenlist goes beyond being a financial decision.  I honestly believe the bonus should just be, well, a bonus that comes along with reenlistment, not the driving force behind the decision.  The choice to reenlist should be more about either keeping a job you want to keep doing for another couple years, or about getting a set of orders you want.  To STAR on the ship for the "money and respect" (yeah, someone said that) can lead to disaster.  The last kid I saw STAR on the boat just quit less than two weeks ago, with just over one year on board.  In June last year he was going to be the MCPON and in July this year he was going to the Chaplain.

When a SPU reenlists, he/she does it into a comfortable environment.  He/she may not yet know the in's and out's of the proto-pal system, but he/she is familiar with the site and knows many of the people around him/her.  He/she also won't go three section duty there or go to sea.  Then he/she shows up to a boat with some experience at his/her job (and, sadly, the ego that goes with it) and just as much (or less) sea time remaining on the contract as if he/she had never re-enlisted.

When a guy/gal reenlists at the end of his/her first sea tour, he/she is "senior" in his/her field and ready for a change of pace.  He/she can also pull a sea/shore rotation waiver and wind up doing less time on the boat; often leaving the boat before he/she would have checked out on terminal leave.

When a guy/gal reenlists at his/her two year point on his first boat, the time extended on his contract WILL be spent on that boat (at least until his/her 60 months is up) unless he/she can get a sea time waiver for P-type.  When he/she extends for six years at the beginning of a five year sea time obligation that will also leave him/her without enough time remaining on his/her contract to complete a shore tour without extending or reenlisting again, or he/she will get sent to some crap general shore billet for refusing to extend for a full shore tour.

While this response goes too long, I think the financial arguement for reenlistment is probably the least important consideration to make.  It causes people to jump into a job they don't like or can't handle just for some money, potentially causing them to wind up out of the Navy with a truck payment AND a bonus to pay back.

EDIT:  Modified for political correctness.  "He" has been replaced by "He/she" to leave no one behind.  My humble apologies to any who may have felt excluded.

[JustinHEMI05]

Don't do it.


Note, I didn't read the questions or comments, and am only replying to the title.

Justin

[JustinHEMI05]

In the nuclear world, knowledge (AKA Watchstation qualification) is more important then what you wear on your sleeve if your a blue shirt.  Your shipmates will respect you when you earn that respect.  The more watchstations you qualify...without being delinquent in quals... the more respect you'll earn.  For you, as a surface MM, you'll "arrive" when you qualify Chief Reactor Watch (CRW) if you become a primary mechanic (RM Division), or Chief Mechanical Operator (CMO) if you become a secondary mechanic (M division). 

So, don't worry about re-enlisting unless you want to.  You'll likely make MM2 off the exam.  STAR is nice.....you get $$$$ and automatic E5, but you'll still be an overpaid "nub" if you don't support the watchbill.

100% agree.

I would rather people just owned up to it and said "I am doing it for the money" instead of dancing around the money with other "reasons." I would have more respect for them at the end of the day. Then again, they don't need my respect, do they?

Justin

[LuckyKid]

MMkay-not quite sure I understand this particular detail:

If I Star'ed right at my two year point, there would be no shore duty?

True or false.

[Preciousblue1965]

MMkay-not quite sure I understand this particular detail:

If I Star'ed right at my two year point, there would be no shore duty?

True or false.

If you STAR right at your two year point, you will be eligible for shore duty unless you love being on the ship so much you extend or do a split tour on two boats for you 6 years of sea duty. 

However that shore duty comes at a price.  The most common avenue is to STAR at two years, screen for prototype, leave your ship/boat at your 3 year point and spend your last three years(that is 3 years after you initially qualify, this usually take about 3 months) at one of the Navy's PREMIERE training facilities.  Now this scenerio isn't set in stone.  For instance, you could wait until your four year point to transfer to prototype, but you will still have to do 3 full years there.  The Navy makes you sign an extension letter in order to get your orders to meet that 39 month commitment.  This is the path for those who don't meet the academic requirements to be able to go back to Prototype as an instructor after 3 years on the boat(there is a whole formula to this based on what your class standing was and how many years of sea time can be waived for this duty).

Now there is the other instructor duty at Aschool/Power school, but NO ONE really wants that kinda of shore duty .  Most of the time in order to get that one, you HAVE to meet the academic requirements and usually they want you to be EWS/PPWS before you go there(at least that was the line I was fed).  Not sure about the time requirements there

As far as the other shore duties, like recruiting, SIMA, etc., They don't offer sea time waivers to my knowledge, and I do not know if you have to have a minimum time left in the Navy to get those orders nor do I know if you would have to sign extensions either.

So in a nutshell, if you STAR at your two year point, you WILL get a shore duty to some luxurious locale, however you may be in for much longer than you think to do it.  If the prototype avenue doesn't sound like your particular bag(you will understand more when you go through it if you haven't already), I would wait till around your 3 year point or so then Re-up if you still plan on it.  This way you get more money for the STAR, and you aren't giving away your time to the Navy with extensions that don't carry any bonus money when you sign up for some of those other shore duties(this assumes that you have to extend to get orders for recruiting, SIMA, Etc., if that isn't true then disregard.).

Thank you and have a Fine Navy Day..

[LuckyKid]

I have one month left at prototype right now.

I HATE PROTOTYPE. HATE IT. I liked everything up until now, but if to STAR is to come back here, they can keep it.

[JustinHEMI05]

I have one month left at prototype right now.

I HATE PROTOTYPE. HATE IT. I liked everything up until now, but if to STAR is to come back here, they can keep it.

Justin

[LDO4CNO]

I have one month left at prototype right now.

I HATE PROTOTYPE. HATE IT. I liked everything up until now, but if to STAR is to come back here, they can keep it.

Shipmate, it may hurt your feelings to hear this, but retaining guys like you has never been a problem. You will get in line to reenlist.  It is the quiet guys who never complain that give us the biggest challenges in retention.  If you find prototype as problematic as you indicate, you may consider earning a warfare pin before you pass judgement.

JB

[mlslstephens]

I have one month left at prototype right now.

I HATE PROTOTYPE. HATE IT. I liked everything up until now, but if to STAR is to come back here, they can keep it.

LuckyKid,
I'll bend my ear toward you if you care to share.  Why do you HATE prototype.  Don't worry, you can tell me, I'm not in your COC...heck, I'm not even active duty.  I do have plenty of friends on the 626 so I'm very interested on why the bitterness toward's a place that I called home for what seems like an eternity ago.

[Cycoticpenguin]

man it must be nice to have the option of STAR-ing or not

[LuckyKid]

The more I think about this post the more I think I should wait until I graduate to leave it up for people to see. Doesn't seem smart to advertise one's problems.

Oh-and for the sake of stating, because there was a post that made me realize this wasn't clear: I'm a girl.

[NukeLDO]

Male or female, makes no difference.  In case you hadn't thought this through yet....
When you get to your ship, you will have to qualify.  That means checkouts, exams, and oral boards....all on a new/different plant.  Once qualified, you have to maintain quals.  That means exams on a biannual basis, not to mention the continuing training program which is a series of divisional and department exams.  As you progress up to higher quals, same thing, checkouts, exams, oral boards/interviews.  And it gets even better if you end up in a shipyard availability of longer than 6 months.  Oh, and you won't be spoon-fed the information on the ship like you are at prototype.
So if you don't like it now...what makes you think you might want to extend your obligation?
Been there, done that, but I didn't mind learning all the stuff, and in retrospect, actually enjoyed my time on a deployed submarine.
Just something to think about.

[LuckyKid]

I appreciate your response, but qualifying is not my problem. I like to learn and I like to work, I've never been dink and all I have left in my book is comp and board.

My problems are of a different nature.

[Khak-Hater]

Do not STAR in prototype.  I repeat, DO NOT STAR IN PROTOTYPE. 

Prototype is no reflection of what life will be like for you on the ship for the next four or six [or 20 years].  Your future self [the one that realizes that she could've been out of the Navy yesterday if she hadn't STARed in Prototype] will thank you for being patient enough to wait and experience the real job prior to committing another two years of your life to it.

The fleet is nothing like prototype.  The fleet is work.  Hard, steamy, grind it out endlessly work.  At prototype, you [the students] are the product.  In the fleet steam is the product.  It's completely different, and a wise person wouldn't commit to one thing based upon their experience with another.

Personally, I liked the fleet a lot more than prototype.  It was all about getting the job done,  not begging some self-indulgent staff scrape-up or sea-returnee for checkouts.  On the ship they'll want to give you check outs so you can support their watch bill.  You still have to know your stuff, but it's a different mindset, and they're a different group of people.  When I was on board the E, we had a dozen or more staff scrape-ups in RL div, and none of them ever found themselves into any real leadership positions.  It's a different skill set.

You may like the fleet.  You may hate it.  You may have the same set of problems that you're having right now and/or a whole new set of problems, but you owe it to yourself to get there first and make your decision about how long you want to do the job after actually having done it.

Oh, and no matter how many times you reenlist, you never have to go back to prototype unless you want to.  Out of all of the guys who I knew on the E who reenlisted for shore duty, I don't think any of them went back to prototype [none, zero, zip].  The Navy has a lot better shore duty options than prototype, if you decide to stay in.  I, myself, just stayed on the E for six years. 

Good luck,

MGM

[LuckyKid]

Thanks MGM!

-PS--I just found out my LCC is getting properly relieved.

[LuckyKid]

Mkay:

I feel it's pretty safe to talk about why I hate prototype now, and hopefully dissuade anyone's bad opinion of whether or not I'm a whiny worker:

My crewmate is wacky in the head, mmkay? Came to work with cuts all over his arms, self inflicted, and I'm concerned because, well, curse me for giving a crap, but the command doesn't care. They need warm bodies in billets, is what I was told. Not that they were scolding me for caring, but they were explaining that if he tells them he's fine, they go with it, because they need him.
They're trying to kick my EM buddy out of the program for underage drinking, which I think is the stupidest sacred cow of them all. He can serve his country but not have a beer?!?! Whiskey tango foxtr...I digress. Anyway, they've extended a great amount of stupid extra orders to try and add to the things they say about this guy to get him kicked out. Only our crew has assigned seats. Our crew can't have our lunch breaks. Our crew can't smoke. Mostly so that if he does any of these, dereliction of duty, failure to obey a lawful order, etc. Now, one of my staff asked me to find him some dip the other day, so I asked at crew muster for EOS if anyone had dip they could provide MM1 with, and then he told me I was stupid, and didn't I know he wasn't supposed to dip on the boat? Seriously? He does it all the time, and I don't dip, so how was I to know? And it's okay for mmONE to break a lawful order, but we're going to impose these orders on students for the sake of trying to kick them out? LAME. And the same MM1 leaves out his confidential, right? And I secured it for him. But the EM student? Left his confidential on his desk once to use the head, someone stole it and then made him give a speech at crew muster in order to show how much of a sierra bravo he is(n't). Everyone screws up.

So much for the watchstanding principle of teamwork.

Once I heard two SPU's discussing what grade I would get on my watch before I reported for it. The MM's are peer pressuring each other to be bigger jerks about checkouts, other crews have been like "hey, why is (my crew) always pestering us for checkouts? Why won't their crew give them checkouts?" I have been given grief before that was like "wait hey, aren't you not on crew (whichever letter not mine)?" "Yeah I'm on (my crew)." "Oh...well what do you need?"

It's kind of BS. Command climate, as far as my crew is concerned, is pretty durn bad.

[withroaj]

I'd strongly recommend being honest on your end-of-course critique.  Those go all the way up the chain and the command does its best to address the legitimate complaints. 

Don't worry about the SPU's being jerks.  Remember, they will go to a ship one day and have to qualify through the students they mistreated. The ship or boat will find out who the SPU is once they get orders cut, and the "do you know this guy?" questions fly through the divisions.  If a hard working kid tells the division the SPU is a jerk, the SPU will get the most detailed checkouts imaginable.

As long as you work hard in this game, you win.  Have fun with it.

[Preciousblue1965]

Mkay:

I feel it's pretty safe to talk about why I hate prototype now, and hopefully dissuade anyone's bad opinion of whether or not I'm a whiny worker:

My crewmate is wacky in the head, mmkay? Came to work with cuts all over his arms, self inflicted, and I'm concerned because, well, curse me for giving a crap, but the command doesn't care. They need warm bodies in billets, is what I was told. Not that they were scolding me for caring, but they were explaining that if he tells them he's fine, they go with it, because they need him.
They're trying to kick my EM buddy out of the program for underage drinking, which I think is the stupidest sacred cow of them all. He can serve his country but not have a beer?!?! Whiskey tango foxtr...I digress. Anyway, they've extended a great amount of stupid extra orders to try and add to the things they say about this guy to get him kicked out. Only our crew has assigned seats. Our crew can't have our lunch breaks. Our crew can't smoke. Mostly so that if he does any of these, dereliction of duty, failure to obey a lawful order, etc. Now, one of my staff asked me to find him some dip the other day, so I asked at crew muster for EOS if anyone had dip they could provide MM1 with, and then he told me I was stupid, and didn't I know he wasn't supposed to dip on the boat? Seriously? He does it all the time, and I don't dip, so how was I to know? And it's okay for mmONE to break a lawful order, but we're going to impose these orders on students for the sake of trying to kick them out? LAME. And the same MM1 leaves out his confidential, right? And I secured it for him. But the EM student? Left his confidential on his desk once to use the head, someone stole it and then made him give a speech at crew muster in order to show how much of a sierra bravo he is(n't). Everyone screws up.

So much for the watchstanding principle of teamwork.

Once I heard two SPU's discussing what grade I would get on my watch before I reported for it. The MM's are peer pressuring each other to be bigger jerks about checkouts, other crews have been like "hey, why is (my crew) always pestering us for checkouts? Why won't their crew give them checkouts?" I have been given grief before that was like "wait hey, aren't you not on crew (whichever letter not mine)?" "Yeah I'm on (my crew)." "Oh...well what do you need?"

It's kind of BS. Command climate, as far as my crew is concerned, is pretty durn bad.

Well first of all I commend you for actually caring enough about one of your Shipmates to bring the issue up.  "Cutters" do need pyschological help and they need it immediately.  It is truly sad that the "need for warm bodies" seems to outweigh the concerns of this person's mental well being. 

As far as the other guy being set up for failure, there may or may not be other forces at work here.  While you may perceive that they are "out to get him", the reality is that perhaps there are other reasons for this crackdown on the crew as a whole such as too many students behind the curve, or other disciplinary problems.  Sadly sometimes there are sailors that just aren't cut out to be nukes due to many reasons but we are unable to weed them out without documenting each and every indiscretion. 

As far as the double standard, well sorry Charlie but get used to it.  There are thousands of examples of the double standards, the blatant disregard for regulations, and other interpretations.  For example, technically you are only supposed to paint for preservation purposes only, but when MTT or ORSE rolls around, you will be painting everything to make it look shiny and clean. 

Do be as honest as you can during your end of course critiques.  Remember though that what you perceive to be reality and what is really going on could be two different things.  You might inadvertantly cause a whole heap of crap to come raining down on some underserving individuals.  As far as SPU's, well there are some good, some bad.  There is something magical about the first time you get to sign someone else's book as a nuke.  Some people see it as a chance to teach, a chance to pencil whip, and on a few occasions a chance to get even.  Don't be the last two. 

[LuckyKid]

I've already written my EOC's. I may re-write a command climate, but everyone's going to slaughter everyone on the EOC's. I wrote nice things about people who deserved to have nice things said about them, especially because they may need some sparing when the poop rolls down.

*shrug*

Perhaps it was a bad decision. I'll never know.

[shayne]

I didn't STAR.  I re-enlisted at my 5 year point after I got orders to NY Prototype.  I was able to get off the ship after 3 1/2 years.  I enjoyed my time working at Prototype more than I did out at sea.  Separated after 46 months at S8G because I had no desire to go back to sea. 

[goobs22xx]

EDIT: Decided to pm, instead