Potential Navy Nuke with some reservations...

[Nic_Flo]

So out of the blue I talked with a navy recruiter today and I went to humoring him to seriously considering a career in the navy.  I took a practice ASVAB and got a 94, and they told me I could easily ace the real ASVAB and then he brought up the Nuclear Navy program and threw a bunch of interesting facts about the pay and such...  Also, I know that I have the intelligence to participate in this program, however...

I tend to ace tests and quizzes with relatively no studying involved.  I did maybe all my assignments while at school, however I would do absolutely no work when I got to my house.  Whatever I did not do at school, I turned in incomplete or not at all.  I would say I cruised through high school with little effort, earning above a 3.0 GPA, but I think I failed one class senior year the last quarter, which I didn't need anyway. 

The next year, however, I attended a local community college for a year.  The first semester was alright, with me slacking off halfway through the year.  I only showed up to my music-related classes, dropped my English Class, and stopped showing up to my Business Calc class, receiving a B-C in my music classes and somehow pulling a D in Business Calc.  Winter quarter and spring quarter I basically did not show up to the classes halfway through each quarter and failed all but one class (Psych, which I stopped skipped half the time, receiving a C).  So basically, one year wasted at college.

My other worry is about my health.  I recently dabbled in marijuana (2 weeks ago was the last time I used) but didn't do it often.  I also drank occasionally (underage).  I also am not in the best shape, but the recruiter said they wouldn't ship me unless they knew that I was prepared for boot camp and that they would help train me.

So, in closing, i would basically like to know if I should worry about my previous grades and such or my former drug use.  Should I look into other programs or will the Navy give me that special push to excel in this field?

[Wanna Know Mom]

Well, with your current effort, attitude, drug use I dont want you near my sailor or any of his shipmates.  You need to finish what you start, put in 100% effort, be self motivated, and stop the recreational drugs.  Take a time out and straighten up first. This is your mom speaking.

Kathy, VPNNM

[Smart People]

I thought I would have it easy. When I was in high school, I was generally the smartest kid in the class. My test scores usually matched or beat the valedictorian's. I easily slept my way through my C average and of course excelled in the classes I liked.

I thought that when I went to Nuke school, all I really had to do was pay attention and I would have no problem.

Then I found myself in a class full of the "smartest kids in the class". I also found out (after a couple of tests) that skating through this school would not be an option. I realised that I needed to learn how to study and apply myself or I would find myself out in the fleet with no rate and working as a striker.

They won't carry you, they won't coddle you. If you go to the Nuke program, you will need to step up. skipping classes will not be an option. This is not like college. you will be in class or study 8-12 hours a day 5-6 days a week.

Search this forum. You will find plenty of posts to give you an idea of what the school is like.

[Marlin]

   Wow this all sounds familiar, my story wasn't much different. I had no interest in school but still got by with no problem. I played board "one" for my high school chess team, played chess with the University of Illinois chess club on weekends and even beat the Air Force champion (once). I never thought of myself as smart and had no study habits when I enlisted. All of that changed as the Navy provided a discipline that I lacked. I came from a blue collar family not more than a couple generations from being a hillbilly, college or professional life was not even on my horizon.
   If you do not have the discipline or vision for the future the Nuclear Navy can give you that. Knowing what I do now, I would not want to do it again but, I am glad I did it. It will not be easy and it will not be handed to you.

[HydroDave63]

but I think I failed one class senior year the last quarter, which I didn't need anyway. 

If you don't remember which classes you failed, then the drugs are working just fine.

Don't even think about joining until you are celebrating 6 months clean and sober, sometime in 2010.

"Bosun, pipe Sweepers!"

[Preciousblue1965]

I thought I would have it easy. When I was in high school, I was generally the smartest kid in the class. My test scores usually matched or beat the valedictorian's. I easily slept my way through my C average and of course excelled in the classes I liked.

I thought that when I went to Nuke school, all I really had to do was pay attention and I would have no problem.

Then I found myself in a class full of the "smartest kids in the class". I also found out (after a couple of tests) that skating through this school would not be an option. I realised that I needed to learn how to study and apply myself or I would find myself out in the fleet with no rate and working as a striker.

They won't carry you, they won't coddle you. If you go to the Nuke program, you will need to step up. skipping classes will not be an option. This is not like college. you will be in class or study 8-12 hours a day 5-6 days a week.

Search this forum. You will find plenty of posts to give you an idea of what the school is like.

This isn't exactly true anymore.  There is a WHOLE lot more coddling and carrying nowadays as opposed the past.

[Marlin]

This isn't exactly true anymore.  There is a WHOLE lot more coddling and carrying nowadays as opposed the past.

   I have been out of the Navy for 31 years and have been in contact with the most recent crop of "Old Timers" from the nuclear Navy in the course of my jobs at Nuclear plants and DOE facilities. I seem to hear the same thing from every new generation, the Naval Nuclear Propulsion Program is going to hell in a hand basket. By now they must be taking them from under bridges and out of homeless shelters. There is an ebb and flow in the program to adjust the "Needs of the Navy" but I suspect that the quality of the personell is still very high. Only ten percent of those who enlisted as nukes when I did made it through the program, but then there was lots of room for washouts on River Boats in Vietnam and oilers to support the much larger fleet. I could rest on the laurels of surviving a high failure rate or simply understand that they allowed more into the pipeline. Once we hit prototype you were assumed to be capable of finishing the program so if you did not get caught with dope you made it through with just a reasonable effort. Were we coddled at prototype?

Marlin
XMM1/SS
Class 71-2
   

That's just my opinion I could be wrong.   D.M.

[Smart People]

When "Through a separate administrative action" I was released from the nuclear program, i found out I was part of the 53% attrition rate at that time at the school (20 years ago). I guess that was much better than the 90% rate during your time Marlin.

Any idea what it is now?

[Marlin]

   Not really, maybe we can get someone with 0 time out of the Navy comment on that.  With less room to place drop outs I am sure the initial screening may be tougher and the effort to keep candidates is stronger, but I am confident that we still have a high standard just applied in a different manner. I remember doing an eye roll with nukes whom I wondered how they got through the program even from my class. I guess it's just perspective.

[Preciousblue1965]

When "Through a separate administrative action" I was released from the nuclear program, i found out I was part of the 53% attrition rate at that time at the school (20 years ago). I guess that was much better than the 90% rate during your time Marlin.

Any idea what it is now?

When I left, Non-accademic attrition was less than 15% and Academic attrition was around 10%. This was in 2006.  There were several students that had not passed over half of their tests in Power School, failed comp twice, and failed their Ac-board and were still sent to P-type. 

However, with regards to the orginal poster I think a HydroDave quote would work best.....

200 quatloos against the newcomer.

[Smart People]

There were several students that had not passed over half of their tests in Power School, failed comp twice, and failed their Ac-board and were still sent to P-type. 

how is that even tolerated?

[Nic_Flo]

Well I don't plan to use any marijuana in the future and I certainly won't drink when I'm in the Navy.  Also, I have heard that it takes VERY hard work to be a Navy nuke.  I have felt that I have wasted several years of my life just being lazy on school.  I just didn't have any motivation because I didn't think about my future.  However, I really want to change myself for the better...  I am willing to put forth the effort needed to become a Navy nuke.  I don't want to become the failure I doomed myself to become with my last year of college...

[Preciousblue1965]

how is that even tolerated?

It is part of the "new" nuke program.  It began with Bowman in the mid 90s saying that he wanted academic attrition brought down.  It has progressively gotten worse over the years.  There are mounds of examples in which the student was coddled or had the deck stacked in his/her favor, such as:

-Student had failed 2 Final Evaluated Watches in ERLL. The third try, they gave his a drill watch and refused to run any drills that required him to do anything other than log the event had happened.
-Student completely bombs his Final Oral board for MM(this guy thought oil went through bearings in series vice parralell and that pump laws were what told you when to start a pump and which one).  "Unofficial" policy was to give failures a 2.4 because it might otherwise "dishearten" them if they got anything less.  Got a nice talking to by TM over that one when I gave the kid a 2.2
-Students now have "health and comfort" inspections of their private apartments while at NPTU.
-There are now "quotas" for off-crew staff at NPTU.  They have "recommended" number of checkout to give a day.  If they don't they are "encouraged" to spend extra time after shift giving checkouts.
-It is the general consensus among higher ups that if they qualify to get into the program, then they can pass the program and if they are failing it is because the instructors aren't putting in enough effort.  So basically the recruiters are the first, last, and only line of "quality control" for nuke trainees.

These are just a few of the things I have seen.  There are hundreds more in the "How would you fix the NNPP" thread along with several other threads.  

[Marlin]

Maybe I've been a bit Polyannaish about this, I know I would not want to serve on a sub with someone who did measure up. I will spend some time on the thread mentioned.

[Smart People]

While I was released for something I considered stupid (on my part and theirs) I still respected the tough standards that the Navy Nuclear program held. to see that those standards have been relaxed to such a degree as you describe saddens me. Hopefully it's still a quality program.

I'll take a look at the thread you mentioned

[Marlin]

Maybe I've been a bit Polyannaish about this, I know I would not want to serve on a sub with someone who did measure up. I will spend some time on the thread mentioned.

Wow 17 pages on this thread. So far it sounds a little like a break room b*&#h session rambling from personnel treatment to compensation, to standards but then I am only a few pages into it.

[Preciousblue1965]

Wow 17 pages on this thread. So far it sounds a little like a break room b*&#h session rambling from personnel treatment to compensation, to standards but then I am only a few pages into it.

Well that is about the jest of it, but there are several examples of the lower standards buried in there. 

[Already Gone]

Well I don't plan to use any marijuana in the future and I certainly won't drink when I'm in the Navy.  Also, I have heard that it takes VERY hard work to be a Navy nuke.  I have felt that I have wasted several years of my life just being lazy on school.  I just didn't have any motivation because I didn't think about my future.  However, I really want to change myself for the better...  I am willing to put forth the effort needed to become a Navy nuke.  I don't want to become the failure I doomed myself to become with my last year of college...

I was right with you until the part about not planning to use mj in the future an not drinking while in the Navy.  If you were smoking the shit 2 weeks ago, you won't be clean enough to enlist until Christmas.  So, not Planning" to smoke don't cut it.  You pretty much have to make it a final and unalterable decision like, uh, right now.

As for not drinking while in the Navy.....   OMFG!  Do you have any idea how ridiculous that statement is?

Dude, before you think about handling the switches on a nuclear reactor, you need to get a grip on reality.  What are you, 19?  20?  Of course you are going to drink while in the Navy.  The trick is to do it like a man instead of like a dumb kid.  But, it is too early for someone who is basically not eligible to enlist to swear off alcohol for at least six years of a future that you don't fully comprehend at the moment.  How about doing this instead -  stop smoking weed, stop underage drinking, get a menial job to hold you over a few months, and then (when you have clean piss) go talk to your recruiter again.  If you get that far, let us know.  We'll help.

[SSBN640Blue]

Such words of encouragement.

Well Nic_Flo, it is all up to you.  Granted there may be issues with MJ and the advice to cleanup first is the best to consider, or you won't be able to get in.

There is a little more to consider then just the Navy nuke program however.  Have to remember where you will be serving.  I know the Long Beach and Bainbridge are decommissioned, so you only have a few nuke carriers or duty on submarines.  You can be pretty certain you'll be on a sub and that is a totally different thing to consider.

The submariners are a little different breed.  On a surface ship, you can haul ass to a life boat if the ship is sinking.  On a sub, you are already sunk, so where can you haul ass to?  That makes them totally reliant upon each other.  US Navy hasn't lost a sub since the Thresher and Scorpion and todays boats are marvels of technology compared to what I sailed on in the 70's.  But one thing hasn't changed in 30 years, or in the history of the sub service, all subs are just a hulk of steel with out a well trained crew that can count on each other in a crisis.

When your a thousand feet down and a line breaks and the ocean is coming into the "People Tank" at 1000 gallons per minute, you better know that the guy in the lower level knows exactly which valve to close to isolate leak.  Getting through Nuke Power School and Prototype, is is just beginning of your training.  There are watch station qualifications and ships qualifications that you have to get through.  Figure a year to qualify for your Dolphins and a year to qualify as reactor operator, and you do them both at the same time.  Go Dink and you'll be studying your butt off get off the Dink List.  No movies, card games or anything else except study when you are on the Dink List.

To qualify subs isn't like the old diesel boats where every man knew every other man's jobs.  But you are expected to know the boat from end to end and where all the major equipment is in each compartment and where all the major isolations in an emergency.

Nuke quals are another story, you ARE expected to know EVERYTHING.  And the guys who make sure you do are the ones who will be sleeping when you are on watch.  No doubt about it, any Reactor Operator I trained knew more then I did when I signed off his card.

Then of course once you qualify, there are drills and drills and more drills.  Reactor Scrams, Main Steam Leaks, Flooding, Fire, etc.  Training never stops.  I checked the startup log at the end of patrol once.  Besides the normal reactor startup for sea trials and getting under way for patrol, I logged 30 reactor startups in 76 days of patrol, with two from out in the machinery space.  We could go from a scram to full power line up in 24 minutes.  That was all training and not what you got from nuke school or prototype.  The best fleet operators I served with, didn't finish nuke school in the top of the class and the Hot Runners at Basic NPS washed out in prototype.

It's isn't so much are you cut out for the nuke program, but are you cut out to be a Submariner?

[Marlin]

I've been thinking about this lately,....

Back in the day it was only ten percent, or fifty percent or some sort of number that signified two things;

If you made it, that was because you wanted to, and because you made it, you were part of some intangibly elite corp that only the insiders really knew the deal on,....

Now,.....not so much,.....

Of course I could be wrong,........

I think I can give that a "Nukebusters" plausible.

[Marlin]

Gentlemen,.....ALL of the above posts are coddling,......

______________________________________________________________________________________________


The following is old school;

Yes, Yes, taking the carrot off of the stick and beating the donkey with it works too, you just have to replace the donkey more often.   

[withroaj]

Yeah I know,....

good thing is the donkeys just keep on breeding,.....

Is it a good thing?

[playswithairplanes]

WRT the "new" Nuclear Navy. I've talked with some folks who are still in, and some recently out of the pipeline. The reports I got indicated that the Bowman policies have been rescinded, and they are marching back to quality over "zero attrition".  There are wide spread acknowledgement that those policies failed the Navy, and many folks got through the pipeline who should have been given the boot.  It winds up being up to the fleet to deal with the dirtbags, which is  a real bummer.

The good news is that it's changing back to a more rigorous program. 

[Dave Warren]

While I was released for something I considered stupid (on my part and theirs) I still respected the tough standards that the Navy Nuclear program held.

Yeah, but your issue keeps you from moving near a playground...

[playswithairplanes]

hmmmmmmmmmmm,.....

when I joined up they were purging the Zumwalt era from the Navy at large,...

the more things change, the more they seem the same,....

thing was I really liked the utility working uniform and ballcap from the Zumwalt revolution,....

I was never a big fan of the dungarees, the "dixie cup" or the crackerjacks,...

Indeed.

Yea, I liked the ball caps too. I remember when I got my first one on Sam Rayburn... made me really feel like more than just another squid. I still have it, still wear it even though it's getting very... ahem... well used after 25 years.