NPUA

[Brett LaVigne]

Nice pun,....

I can type over 100 words/minute...not accurately all the time el le el le el le el le...now I'm confused . You get what I mean.

[Brett LaVigne]

After reading your post and reviewing my moderator duties I decided to remove my last post... I do have real question that I'd like to see answers but I will no longer take part in a sparring match as I do not want my thoughts to reflect badly against this site and the good that it does.

Camella, please don't think I was targeting you alone or at all. It was a general statement of my feeling about the site. There is a lot to like about nukeworker.com, this is a great resource for us. But if your going to have a forum, the moderators (as site representatives) need to be unbiased and let the information flow until it gets off topic or too ugly to meet the intent of the thread. Deleting parts of threads that don't seem to go against the rules really can only be percieved as a play to guide the conversation one way or another based on personal opinions. It also appeared that there was some feeling of competition to nukeworker from NPUA when I don't think that was what they were after. I felt that when the NPUA was trying to get the word out on nukeworker, it was handled poorly by the nukeworker administrators. Not trying to pick fights, just giving an opinion on why we are not seeing NPUA represented on this site. It has always appeared that they are not welcome.

[desertdog]

His NPUa-ness is here every day.  Write "mutant" about the union.  He started it, and has plenty of time to respond....not working.

Still way off base here, dude.  Might want to recheck your sources and/or keep your delusions to yourself.

[Already Gone]

Brett, I'd love to address all your points.  I don't think I have the mental stamina to do it all at once, but I'll try to get the important ones.

First,  Moderators on this site are not, and were never meant to be impartial arbiters.  We are members like anyone else, and permitted to express our thoughts.  We have opinions which are not necessarily shared among us and are definitely NOT the official opinions of nukeworker.com.  When I post, I am posting as myself and not as a moderator, unless the post is specifically concerning the conduct of the members.  Unless I am warning someone to keep it clean and on-topic, or something of that nature, my posts are my own.  Camella and the other moderators should be allowed the same privilege as any member.


Second, we do not delete posts that disagree with ours merely because we disagree.  We delete posts that violate forum rules.  I have had many of my posts deleted.  They strayed from the topic too far, so they had to go.  That is fair.  I delete posts that are incoherent, that insult people, that make accusations (especially about specific individuals), that contain profanity ... etc.  Just look at this topic.  I could save myself a lot of time by deleting posts that don't agree with mine.  I bet you can find at least ten posts on this site in under an hour that specifically attack me personally.  I could have deleted them all if I wanted to.  What Troy wants, however, is not a valid criteria for removing a post from the site.  I have had many posts reported to me by forum members that were about me.  I did not delete them.

Next, NPUA really should make an official presence on this site a priority.  Here's why.  Their unofficial presence here hasn't been doing them any favors.  The people who post here in their favor re doing them more harm than good.  The initial references to NPUA that were removed painted them as a bunch of scammers and dirty-dealers.
Here's another reason.  As you have pointed out, many people come to this site just to look for jobs.  If you want their attention, you have to get your message into the places where they are looking.  If you want to feed the ducks, you go to the pond.  If you are too good to go to the pond, then the ducks needn't regard you as much of a friend.

So far, I have been trying to bait them, goad them, or just plain get them mad enough that they can't resist coming here.  No takers.  Why have I been doing that?  Because I want to know - we really need to know - if they are a real union.  So far, all evidence points to no.  A real union is tenacious.  A real union never misses the chance to get their message to the workforce.  For that matter, a real union would never let ANY of my comments go unchallenged.

Even with the noblest of intentions, a failure is a failure.  If they can't organize a significant percentage of the techs and keep them working at those higher-wage jobs, they are just going to price out of the market those who do choose to join.  A real union never tries to put the non-union guys out of business until they have first done everything possible to make the non-union guys into union guys.  The point of the whole union philosophy is strength in numbers.  More numbers means more strength.  Yes, they do need the support of nukeworker - not the site itself, but of the people who do come here for news, job listings, and even the forum.  If a union turns its back on even one potential member; if they aren't willing to fight for the support of a single worker, they simply are not a real union.

I agree with may of the things that they say they want for the tech population.  I disagree with some of the ways they have gone about trying to get them.  And they haven't had the balls to come here and tell me why they are right and I am wrong.  If they can't debate me, they don't have a chance when it comes time to stand up to management over a contract dispute.

If you don't want to pay for a membership, you can give whatever reason you want.  Nobody is forcing you to be a Gold Member.  It is entirely voluntary.  But we are not going to reshape the site to meet the definition of "open, uncensored, and unbiased" that happens to suit you or any other individual.  The forum rules have stood the test of all this time.  There is no reason to change them now to allow unsupported accusations, ad-hominem attacks, unpaid advertisements, or off-topic ramblings.  From the perspective of any given member of the forum, paid or unpaid, censorship is any time one of his or her posts is deleted - no matter why.  Bias is any opinion that is different from his own; openness is the freedom for him to say anything he wants - even if it is libelous, untrue, incoherent, or off-topic; and objectivity is anything that he agrees with.


Oh, and Marssim, it's Noble gasses - not Nobel.  So, there really wasn't much of a pun, was there?  Just a simple typo.

[Brett LaVigne]

BeerCourt, I am not asking anyone to change anything about the site. We differ in opinions on why some posts get deleted, whatever. I have seen what I have seen and formed my opinions based on that. I am not looking for people who agree, I am giving an opinion on why some of us might not want to donate $ for a membership anymore and why the NPUA might not be on this forum defending themselves. Generally speaking, you represent the site very well from what I have seen. You typically leave emotions out and give differing opinions room to breath and be heard. I don't however, think that all do the same. Particularly where the NPUA is concerned.

I have an opinion about what I would like to see from this site, doesn't mean anything other than I have an opinion. Many others that I know share the same opinion and I thought nukeworker might like to know that, after all, it is a business as well as our resource. It might be worth mentioning why nukeworker has lost some gold memberships so they have a pulse reading on their customers. Doesn't matter if you agree or not, perception is reality. If they are not aligned, an adjustment might be warrented for the good of the site and its members. But that is a nukeworker.com issue, they can do what ever they want and we can respond however we want.

It frustrates me quite a bit how RP's will absolutely crucify someone for something as little as a couple of misspelled words in a post (not referring to my earlier one, I'm good with it, just a general statement on how tough of a crowd WE are at times). The NPUA is starting from the ground level by folks that have good intentions. They get beat up bad for any little conceived mistake as if they should have as much union savvy as a seasoned union like UAW, IBEW or Teamsters. The NPUA has smart people trying to make a difference and having to learn as they go, I won't beat them up for that. I won't let anyone else beat them up without saying something either if I don't think it is fair.

I don't know if they are going about this the most effective way, but I don't want to snuff out a group that is trying to help us as a whole even if I don't agree with everything they do for lack of extensive experience in getting a union off the ground.

RP's can be difficult, opinionated and unforgiving. It is the trait that sometimes makes us successfull as a group, and in this case it is hurting us as a group. If I were Kevin, I would not address this site in any way after the initial experience either. Again, it would be helpfull for them to be on here, but lets not be so proud of our selves in thinking that the majority of RP's are represented here on nukeworker. NPUA has a much bigger audience outside of this forum.

I for one hope they continue to move forward.

[Brett LaVigne]

You missed all my fun with the 1.8 Senior Techs awhile back,.....

I was all set with Nobel prizes for Noble gasses or is it Noble prizes for Nobel gasses or is it?!?!?!?

Party pooper,......

(that's two groups with no sense of humor, union organizers and moderators)

I thought it was funny

[Brett LaVigne]

tough?!?!,...

pffffft, tough is in the GM arenas (if you can be tough on an internet forum), everything out here is just good natured ribbing, some of us just have delicate ribs,....

stay safe out there in northern cali., sounds like you guys got a good interesting job as long as the funding holds out,...  

We are having a great time at Humboldt, I am in love and scared to death with this plant all at the same time. It is a great experience and pleasure to be here. And funding...This project is a "Trust fund baby". We may run out of money at some point, then the customers get to pick up the bill. This is the best place to have a nuclear decom job, the tree huggers can't wait for it to go away and don't mind if they have to foot part of the bill.

Anyway, back on topic. I've said what I thought I needed to.

Peace

[RAD-GHOST]

DAM, I had to Moderated Myself......

BC,

Have you spent that much time and effort on the various companies....

Besides an Advertizing Banner, some Job Postings and one UNOFFICIAL spokesman, I must have missed something...

I'm riding the line on this issue, neither for, nor against at this point!  Just Lurking, Listening and Learning!

You have to give them credit for one thing, they obviously know how to keep an idiot in suspense..

Just an Opinion........RG!

[let-it-ride]

I am curious about NPUA. Such as who are they, etc. I tried NPUA.com and came up with nothing.
What is their website. Thanks

[mohavejoe]

tty npua.org

[MeterSwangin]

We are having a great time at Humboldt, I am in love and scared to death with this plant all at the same time. It is a great experience and pleasure to be here. And funding...This project is a "Trust fund baby". We may run out of money at some point, then the customers get to pick up the bill. This is the best place to have a nuclear decom job, the tree huggers can't wait for it to go away and don't mind if they have to foot part of the bill.

Anyway, back on topic. I've said what I thought I needed to.

Peace

Albers still there?

[Rennhack]

Albers still there?

Please take the off topic Conversation to PM please.

[MR BIG]

I am curious about NPUA. Such as who are they, etc. I tried NPUA.com and came up with nothing.
What is their website. Thanks

NPUA.org

Good site. They just haven't got all the dropdown lists built yet. Rome wasn't built in a day.
It pretty much explains everything on there, if you just surf through the different topics.

Good Luck!

[MR BIG]

I am not sure that NPUA is not commenting on this site, but they are not "openly" posting on this site. I was with some of the folks that started the movement a few years ago, while we were friends, I didn't initially support the organization. I now believe that the intentions are nobel and aimed to help us as a group. Are they doing a good job? I don't know, I have been away from the conversation for a while as I am a member of different union.

There were some very ugly exchanges in the beginning on this site about the NPUA. It is my opinion that nukeworker.com tried it's best to squash the information NPUA wanted to get out on this site. Maybe that was a play to keep nice nice with the contract companies that advertise here...don't know for sure. But when posts started being deleted and altered (including some of mine at the time) it was painfully obvious that this site does not have open and free conversation at times. That is the choice of the site and I am fine with that. But that was also when I decided not to pay for a membership any longer.

It would be great to have an open line to Kevin and the other members of the NPUA on this site, but I don't know how much it really matters...many many many many technicians and deconners don't ever bother to come to this site. And many that do come here are just looking for job postings or news in the industry.

If anyone thinks that NPUA needs the support of nukeworker.com for success, I don't believe that to be the truth. I would love to see the sharing of information on the subject from the NPUA on this site, but I don't think it's going to happen without the emotions of the few that post on here killing the thread and other opinions or information being erased if it doesn't meet the narrow path of what is acceptable conversation.

And I will say this...My feelings are not unique among many of the technicians I have worked with in the past few years who no longer come to this site for any reason. I personally still find usefull information here and still enjoy some of the threads, but I won't pay until it's open, uncensored, and unbiased.

Very well said!!! I just don't understand all these negative, suspicious posts? Why can't we come together and SUPPORT each other? My goodness! These negative posts expect this union movement to suddenly appear OVERNIGHT! It takes TIME. Especially when we have so many nay sayers and critical people trying to make up some story or reason why it won't work. People with that kind of attitude and mindset will never be happy and never really succeed in anything. I choose to believe things can happen if we put effort behind it. I am nobody....but at least I choose to think positively (with a sense of educated reality) If people want to criticize everything....you can't change that person.
Good Luck to all of us that hope for a better future.

[Camella Black]

What unions have you been a member of?

None, sadly I have not had the honor or privilege of working for a union company. I have however supported union workers by walking along side my father when his union was on strike and I was a HUGE supporter of the IBEW recognition strike back in the eighties. Anyone at Hatch should remember that I contacted the AP and attempted to get national coverage of the strike but there was a wire constraint... WRDW Channel 12 in Augusta aired video shot by me at Hatch and I was interviewed by journalist all over the country who were looking for information.

Oh and I almost forgot I was an honorary member of the International Brotherhood of Luders out of Florida City, FL wayyyy back in the early 1980's... anybody out there remember singing the national anthem (Elvira) at the local bar.  

Now while this post is slightly off topic, I would like to add... I am pro union, always have been, always will be... I'm not sure about the NPUA and that is mostly due to the actions and attitudes of some here on nukeworker. I also did not agree with what they had to say about Bartlett, I found it distasteful but that is my opinion and only mine.

[johnnyreb]

  if it wasn't for the abusive, short sided and ultimately self deprecating actions of Bartlett the NPUA would have no traction at all

[MeterSwangin]

  if it wasn't for the abusive, short sided and ultimately self deprecating actions of Bartlett the NPUA would have no traction at all

Bartlett is a $400M mega-success, and NPUA is on life support.  Them's just the facts.

[Camella Black]

Brett, I'd love to address all your points.  I don't think I have the mental stamina to do it all at once, but I'll try to get the important ones.

First,  Moderators on this site are not, and were never meant to be impartial arbiters.  We are members like anyone else, and permitted to express our thoughts.  We have opinions which are not necessarily shared among us and are definitely NOT the official opinions of nukeworker.com.  When I post, I am posting as myself and not as a moderator, unless the post is specifically concerning the conduct of the members.  Unless I am warning someone to keep it clean and on-topic, or something of that nature, my posts are my own.  Camella and the other moderators should be allowed the same privilege as any member.


Second, we do not delete posts that disagree with ours merely because we disagree.  We delete posts that violate forum rules.  I have had many of my posts deleted.  They strayed from the topic too far, so they had to go.  That is fair.  I delete posts that are incoherent, that insult people, that make accusations (especially about specific individuals), that contain profanity ... etc.  Just look at this topic.  I could save myself a lot of time by deleting posts that don't agree with mine.  I bet you can find at least ten posts on this site in under an hour that specifically attack me personally.  I could have deleted them all if I wanted to.  What Troy wants, however, is not a valid criteria for removing a post from the site.  I have had many posts reported to me by forum members that were about me.  I did not delete them.

Next, NPUA really should make an official presence on this site a priority.  Here's why.  Their unofficial presence here hasn't been doing them any favors.  The people who post here in their favor re doing them more harm than good.  The initial references to NPUA that were removed painted them as a bunch of scammers and dirty-dealers.
Here's another reason.  As you have pointed out, many people come to this site just to look for jobs.  If you want their attention, you have to get your message into the places where they are looking.  If you want to feed the ducks, you go to the pond.  If you are too good to go to the pond, then the ducks needn't regard you as much of a friend.

So far, I have been trying to bait them, goad them, or just plain get them mad enough that they can't resist coming here.  No takers.  Why have I been doing that?  Because I want to know - we really need to know - if they are a real union.  So far, all evidence points to no.  A real union is tenacious.  A real union never misses the chance to get their message to the workforce.  For that matter, a real union would never let ANY of my comments go unchallenged.

Even with the noblest of intentions, a failure is a failure.  If they can't organize a significant percentage of the techs and keep them working at those higher-wage jobs, they are just going to price out of the market those who do choose to join.  A real union never tries to put the non-union guys out of business until they have first done everything possible to make the non-union guys into union guys.  The point of the whole union philosophy is strength in numbers.  More numbers means more strength.  Yes, they do need the support of nukeworker - not the site itself, but of the people who do come here for news, job listings, and even the forum.  If a union turns its back on even one potential member; if they aren't willing to fight for the support of a single worker, they simply are not a real union.

I agree with may of the things that they say they want for the tech population.  I disagree with some of the ways they have gone about trying to get them.  And they haven't had the balls to come here and tell me why they are right and I am wrong.  If they can't debate me, they don't have a chance when it comes time to stand up to management over a contract dispute.

If you don't want to pay for a membership, you can give whatever reason you want.  Nobody is forcing you to be a Gold Member.  It is entirely voluntary.  But we are not going to reshape the site to meet the definition of "open, uncensored, and unbiased" that happens to suit you or any other individual.  The forum rules have stood the test of all this time.  There is no reason to change them now to allow unsupported accusations, ad-hominem attacks, unpaid advertisements, or off-topic ramblings.  From the perspective of any given member of the forum, paid or unpaid, censorship is any time one of his or her posts is deleted - no matter why.  Bias is any opinion that is different from his own; openness is the freedom for him to say anything he wants - even if it is libelous, untrue, incoherent, or off-topic; and objectivity is anything that he agrees with.


Oh, and Marssim, it's Noble gasses - not Nobel.  So, there really wasn't much of a pun, was there?  Just a simple typo.

I just wanted to say, this is by far one of the best post I have ever read... I some how missed it until yesterday and decided to come back and reread it today.

Not only did you say what many of us have wanted to say about the NPUA, but you hit the nail on the head with this... "First,  Moderators on this site are not, and were never meant to be impartial arbiters.  We are members like anyone else, and permitted to express our thoughts.  We have opinions which are not necessarily shared among us and are definitely NOT the official opinions of nukeworker.com.  When I post, I am posting as myself and not as a moderator, unless the post is specifically concerning the conduct of the members.  Unless I am warning someone to keep it clean and on-topic, or something of that nature, my posts are my own.  Camella and the other moderators should be allowed the same privilege as any member."

Hopefully the NPUA is watching and learning and they will eventually address the concerns that many of us have, whether it is on this site or theirs.

[RAD-GHOST]

Bartlett is a $400M mega-success, and NPUA is on life support.  Them's just the facts.

In 1979/80 it read something like this...

Rad, IRM, NSS and Numanco are mega-successes and Bartlett is on life support.  Them's just the facts.

...RG!

[justme]

Shades of IRM??

At Nine Mile, 2 NPUA techs didn't report for work cause their company didn't pay them.  Will this be a trend???  Maybe a one time thing, but maybe not.  Not fair to Nine Mile, they didn't cause the problem.

[RAD-GHOST]

Shades of IRM??

At Nine Mile, 2 NPUA techs didn't report for work cause their company didn't pay them.  Will this be a trend???  Maybe a one time thing, but maybe not.  Not fair to Nine Mile, they didn't cause the problem.

This one is playing out like a cross between the National Enquirer and the New York Daily News!  Bold Headlines on the front page and micro print retractors on page 30!  Once again, excuse my oldness, but if I supply my services and I don't get paid, (union or not), my course would be obvious.....What would your course be?  As far receiving your compensation on an agreed upon day, mistakes do happen and hopefully a knee jerk reaction wasn't the action.  Of course in today's technological world misplaced checks can be routed to a site in a day or two.  If they don't arrive on the second agreed upon day/date, professionally speaking; Any and all previous agreements are nullified! 1-800-NEW-JOBS  

ARC, not IRM!  I know several people who claim IRM screwed them out of money and there may be some bases behind those claims, but ARC outright took the money and ran.  There also seems to be some confusion between who's who in the nuclear mix?    I don't remember seeing any direct hire employment opportunities offered by the NPUA!   Passively assigning responsibility, (negative or positive), to an affiliation is an obvious display of stupidity!   Actually it would have been more humorous if it read this way:

At Nine Mile, 2 techs from (BLANK) didn't report for work cause their company didn't pay them.  Will this be a trend???  Maybe a one time thing, but maybe not.  Not fair to Nine Mile, they didn't cause the problem.  

Hell, just fill in the blank....

...justme's home plant!
...justme's nuclear high school!
...justme's home town!
...justme's political party!

Just another opinion....RG!

[Melrose]

I believe 'justme' may be a little off base, or just short of not knowing what he/she is talking about, seems I remember who this person is.  I would take it lightly, the contract is being filled by Bartlett and I-3 Solutions.  Now, unless I-3 Solutions is actually NPUA, maybe those are true statements.  If so, what a short fused reaction to something that can be handled overnight.  Good riddence to them.  They'll never be back, if that's the case.

[Already Gone]

I just wanted to say, this is by far one of the best post I have ever read... I some how missed it until yesterday and decided to come back and reread it today.

Not only did you say what many of us have wanted to say about the NPUA, but you hit the nail on the head with this... "First,  Moderators on this site are not, and were never meant to be impartial arbiters.  We are members like anyone else, and permitted to express our thoughts.  We have opinions which are not necessarily shared among us and are definitely NOT the official opinions of nukeworker.com.  When I post, I am posting as myself and not as a moderator, unless the post is specifically concerning the conduct of the members.  Unless I am warning someone to keep it clean and on-topic, or something of that nature, my posts are my own.  Camella and the other moderators should be allowed the same privilege as any member."

Hopefully the NPUA is watching and learning and they will eventually address the concerns that many of us have, whether it is on this site or theirs.

Thank you Camella, but I do need to clear up one thing.  Moderators are, in fact, meant to be impartial when moderating.  I think I tried to make that clear, even though I contradicted myself.  Even this may not always be the only constraint.  Moderators need to not only be impartial when moderating, but also need to be restrained when posting - to a point.  It is one thing to be honest, and even to have an opinion, but it is also necessary to have the confidence of those who post here that we treat them fairly even when we have contradictory opinions to theirs.  So, even I am going to back off my normally acerbic opinions, climb onto my high, white horse, and play referee for a while.  If I just can't hold it in any longer, I may give up the moderator duties and jump back into the fray.

Peace.

[Already Gone]

Anybody else noticed the change in tone coming from NPUA lately?

All I can say is, "that's more like it".  (A strange phrase as it happens, but you know what I mean)

Go get 'em!

[Camella Black]

Anyone that may have questions about the NPUA and what they are trying to accomplish should go to their web site and start voicing concerns there. That's why they have a web site and there is a forum section as well. There has been a lot of progress with the site over the past couple years and it's turning out pretty good. I really don't blame them for not responding to questions on this site and I personally don't think that it's in their best interest to do so. You never even know what's going to get deleted.

Jeff, let's get real here... we have companies that have no problem to responding on this site but a Union can't do the same? I know plenty of people who have asked questions on the NPUA site and are still waiting for answers. If nothing else you would think that a professional run organization would have a good P.R. person and that they would be flooding this site with posts in their favor after all this is the most visited site for our industry.

As far as posts being deleted, as a former moderator I don't know of an any posts that have been removed.