Which Navy rating to choose

[itrimble]

I am also signed up for the Nuke program.  I am also interested in the Seaman To Admiral Program... the question I have is which job in the Navy will let me get the most career advancement options ET, EM, or MM... also will I get to travel more if I don't choose the Sub option.. I want to travel overseas and possibly get stationed in Asia or Europe what are my best options for getting this accomplished ?

[Roll Tide]

I split your post to a new thread, since it wasn't exactly on topic and many want to discuss exactly what you posed.

I would recommend the MM path if you are going to get out and go into commercial nuclear ops. I say that based on my experience compared to my classmates in commercial power training from other ratings.

MM also allows some of the top performers in NPS and NPTU to go to ELT (Engineering Laboratory Technician) school. This is by far the best way to get in the RADCON field from the Navy.

After 9 years, my info would be stale on promotion within the Navy by rating, so I will defer to some with more recent salt on the shoulders.

As far as overseas travel, I can assure you Boomers get the fewest port calls inside and outside the US. It's the luck of the draw whether your fast attack hits more ports than your carrier.

There is little available overseas for the Nuclear Navy, but maybe there's still a tender in Italy. Usually you have to do your first tour on a sub / carrier before you can get a tender. It's also a back door to RADCON training.

[slarmox2]

Why do I hate to type replies so much?

I would love to give you all of the great information regarding your questions that I have acquired in the past 15 months. I have so much to say that I do not have time to type it all right now, in a few hours I will respond completely

Later,

Slarmo,
x2

[GARYGWOODJR]

Which rating you choose now depends on what you want to do later.  Do you want to stay in for six and get out or stay for 20 or 30 years.  What do you think you want to do when you get out?

Like Roll Tide said, if you are looking short term go the mechanic route and tell your staff advisor that you want to be an ELT  every 5 minutes when you get to prototype.  No other rate is as high profile as soon as you get to your ship/boat.  As a junior ELT you are sure to have your Captain, Executive Officer, and Engineer watching your do radiological work and sampling the primary and steam generators.

face time+good performance=favorable recommendation for STA 21 programs(seaman to admiral)

If you plan on staying in for awhile mechanics and ELTs have the best advancement opportunities.

If you want to get out and work outside of the nuclear power field then electricians and reactor operators (ETs) have a better career path.  As an electrician you could get out of the Navy as a journeyman electrician if you get into the journeyman program as soon as get to your first boat.

As a nuke if you want to make more money go submarines and if you want to see the world  go to the suface fleet.

Regardless of what you do dont spend all of your time chasing women and drinking so you can get a degree before you get out.

If you have specific questions about navy programs send me an email.   

[capper]

I have to agree with everything wingsfan said.  He is right on target. 

[Flooznie]

Well if you are like me, and you like to spend time with your family and stay clean, pick ET.  ET's generally go home early and you don't get carbon dust or oil on you from working on Reactor I & C.  I can tell you if you are an Electrician on a sub, be prepared to work your butt off.  That isn't an exaggeration.  I've never seen guys work as hard as Electricians.  On a submarine, anything Electrical belongs to E-division, so those guys get woke up to fix stuff, both nuclear and Non nuclear.  The advantage, however, is that if they break stuff, nobody cares, very UNLIKE being RC division (ETs).  As far as being a MM (mechanic), be prepared to spend your first year in Engine Room Lower Level, esp if there aren't any junior guys coming in after you.  M-div generally stays just as late as E-div, and their secondary PMS schedule is HUGE!!!!  Next is being an ELT.  Being an ELT is a sweet job if you get picked in Prototype, but if the M-div chief doesn't like you, guess what, you work for M-div, and being an ELT is a "collateral duty".  Generally this is how the work days break down.
0730-1300: ET work day
0730-1300: ELT work day
0730-1900: E div work day
0730-1900: M div work day

You get the idea.  I thoroughly enjoy being an ET, and I wouldn't change my rate for anything.  You get to shim for Jesus, troubleshoot electronics, and if your Chief likes you and you get qualified, you get to go to ETMS school, which is a VERY good deal.  The advantage is, ALL of the Rates advance very quickly...one electrician on my boat just made Chief in 6 years,......blew me away.  Anyway, make an informed decision.

ET1 (SS)

[capper]

Generally this is how the work days break down.
0730-1300: ET work day
0730-1300: ELT work day
0730-1900: E div work day
0730-1900: M div work day

I agree with this except for the ELT part.  I was an ELT, and all of RL divs day went like this.

0730-1000 RL divers do surveys and samples.
1000-1900 Work with M-Div.  However, they mostly waited for the ELTs before they started work because "Why should we be working when they are not"--crappy huh.

Thats what my day was like on a 688I sub.

[Flooznie]

Capper, what boat were you on?  I was on the Satan (Santa) Fe out of Pearl Harbor.  I am on shore duty now, and I am absolutely loving it!  I am more than "getting it back" from being on the boat and having to sleep at work every 3 days.   I think that is the worst part about the boat, duty days.  Jesus christ, having to sit in front of that panel for 12 hours a day every 3 days was about enough to kill me.  But I do have to say, shore duty is absolutely worth it!  That is one decision I am GLAD I made! 

ET1 (SS)

[bigdcruz]

Whoa Capper!  sounds like you managed to get on some unlucky boat.  i'm on my second sea tour now and i've never known any elt's to work for m'div unless it was to provide some useless radcon coverage.  a boat that utilizes rl div to support mechanical work must have a pushover for a LELT.  but you are partially right, my guys won't do a damn thing in the morning if the elt's can't manage to support some drape work that was scheduled a week prior for first thing this morning.  but that problem only affects m'div.  i've had to go rounds with my chief trying to prevent the integration of m and rl div.  guess what?  he's and ex elt.

[cavalry]

Ok, I have to chime in here. I was an ELT stationed aboard the USS Carl Vinson in the early 90's. We were in overhaul while the Gulf War was going on. From my perspective ELT's had it the worst but not by much. We were on three section duty along with the rest of Reactor Department while the rest of the ship was on 5 section duty. Those of us that were ELT's usuallystood two watches concurrently on duty day. TLD reader watch lasted 24 hours and shouldn't have been a big deal except there was a constant stream of people needing their TLD's read due to Reactor Compartment entries. There was also ELT watch which we normally had for 16 hours (the chief would take 8 hours) and during which we had to do blowdowns on 4 steam generators every 8 hours, run radcon for the reactor compartment etc etc etc. To top it all off we were required to do 4 hours of classroom training every day so we NEVER went home before 6pm. I never worked less than 100 hours in a week while onboard. The saving grace was that I loved my job and looked forward to it every day.

In my opinion? Dont' be a nuke if you want it easy or short hours. Do it if you want a challenge and a great career.

[pimpala]

I agree with what a lot have said.  However, not many have talked about the Surface Nuclear community.  I am now on my 4th tour on a Nimitz class carrier.  I just left shore duty in San Diego working on Subs for 3 years, so I have gotten to know thier routine and can honestly compare them. 

First thing to remember, you can volunteer for Subs at any time during the training pipeline, but once you volunteer, you can't undo it.  Wait till you get to prototype before making that decision.  This way you will meet both Sub and Surface instructors and be able to make a more informed choice.

Right now on my ship, EM's have the best routine because the entire surface fleet is overmanned with them.  It is not uncommon to see them leaving the ship prior to 9am when in port.  ET's are not too far behind.  MM's work the most and have the dirtiest jobs to do.

That being said, I think MM is probably the best rate for long term advancement in or out of the Navy.  By the time they are Senior in Rate qualified, they are already done with 70%-80% of their Watch Supervisor qualification.  ET would be second, followed by EM (if you want to stay in the Nuc Field).  EM's learn a lot of Power Distribution stuff, but that doesn't really help much with Watch Supervisor Quals or, from what I can tell, the Civilian Nuclear Industry.

The EM joke is we are smart enough to turn switches and strong enough to turn valves, but what I think really happens is you get someone that is a dillitante in all things and an expert in nothing (I am proof of that )

As far as Sub or Surface, Having seen what the Sub nukes go through, I am glad I am on Carriers.  We have just about 100 Nuc EM's and we only deal with the propulsion plants.  We have Conventional EM's to fix all the other stuff on the ship.  We are in 5 section duty vice 3 for subs.  I have been to Naples, Rhodes Greece, Corfu Greece, Rio De Janero, Valapariso Chile, St. Thomas, Hawaii, Yakuska Japan, Hong Kong, Singapore, Dubai UAE, Muscat Oman, Hobart Tazmania, and Perth Australia.  I don't know too many Sub guys that got to see all that.  Their is also rumor that a Nuclear Carrier will replace the Kitty Hawk in Yakuska Japan a few years down the road, so Nucs may have a chance for Overseas tours in Japan.

Hope that helps,
EM1 (SW)

[Flooznie]

You've done 4 tours and you are still a First Class?

[JassenB]

Lotsa good posts on here...glad to see people chiming in with their experience.

I was a surface sailor. The greatest thing to me about being on a carrier was watching the sunset/sunrise over an endless expanse of bright blue-green water from the fantail. You can't do that on a sub.

From a career standpoint, remember that all nukes have accelerated advancement, and the re-up bonuses are incredible.

I was an EM, and I loved my job. I got to get dirty every day, had the apprenticeship going, and still had time to work on my degree. As an EM, I liked the fact that I worked with both electrical and electronic systems, but also on the straight-up mechanical stuff. You'll stand watches in the control rooms and in the plant, and your stuff powers the entire plant, so you get a wide breadth of knowledge about all the plant systems, probably more so than MM's and ET's.

The down side that I have discovered is that the job opportunities on the outside were quite limited. Most nuclear jobs I applied for wanted either ELT's or ET's to be RO's.

In fact, I ended up working as a Plant Utility Operator for a biotech drug plant after I got out, which meant that I did nothing but stand watch for a living in an industrial plant -- never got to fix (or break!) anything.

I did that for a year, and then quit to go back to college. I've been out for 3 years now.

Just my 2 cents.

-Jassen

[Roll Tide]

You've done 4 tours and you are still a First Class?

Some of the best Sailors I worked with didn't make it past first class. The advancement cycles are pretty rough at times, and if the Surface EM's are over-staffed, then they don't make many Chiefs.

Don't confuse NPS and NPTU with the Fleet: you still have a lot to learn!

[Rick63]

How are Nuke recruits selected for ET, EM or MM at RTC?

Any help/information is appreciated.

Thanks
Rick63

[dav8]

Sometime duing RTC you get asked which one you want.  It all depends on who you are at boot camp with and how many of each rate they need.  It's based on the needs of the Navy and your educational background.  It you want MM, you will get it for sure.  EM's a little harder and ET is the toughest to get because: there are less of them, and the majority of people ask to be an ET.  I think that out of the 20 or so in my boot camp division who asked for ET, two of them got it.  My advice is put in for MM and try to get ELT school.  You will do the least work out of all of them.

[Phurst]

When I went the smartest in school went to RO, the next went ET, and the dumbest of the dumb went MM. I was MM. The smartest of the MM's went ELT. I'm a smart dumbass and went ELT. Hindsight proved me wise.

[RCLCPO]

During week 4 of boot camp, all nukes meet with a Nuclear Field Advisor to discuss the issue of rate selection.  The choice of ET, EM or MM is made based on several factors: your educational background (was it auto shop or computer science?), your hobbies (wire houses? fix car engines? computer repair?), what you'd like to do in the Nuclear Navy (what the different jobs actually are like when out in the fleet), and the needs of the Navy.  The Navy is well aware that if someone actually likes their job, it's a whole lot better for morale than if they're stuck doing something they hate doing.  Real effort is made to try to get everyone what they want.

As for the numbers, there are, for any given Nuclear Engineroom, more mechanical personnel required than anything else.  The ratio of personnel as MM/EM/ET's is about 4:3:2.  Also, as the MM "A" school is shorter than the ET/EM track, the Navy can accept more MM's.

All applicants should be made aware of the responsibilities of each of the ratings, including the maintenance side, so they can make an informed decision about what they'd like to ask for when they meet with the NFA at boot camp.

[Roll Tide]

All applicants should be made aware of the responsibilities of each of the ratings, including the maintenance side, so they can make an informed decision about what they'd like to ask for when they meet with the NFA at boot camp.

Did I ever tell you the one about a civillian Machinist who decided all on his own that being a Nuclear Machinist Mate would be the perfect fit for him? He didn't mention his pre-conceived notions to the recruiter, just told him to put him in as MM. (No one will question that choice, or try to talk you out of it because it fits the needs of the Fleet!)

When he got to my sub, he had figured out he wouldn't really be a machinist for a nuclear plant, but we did make sure he got machine tool operator so he could run all our equipment on the sub. He enjoyed his 6 years in, and last I heard was running a "Trash to Energy" plant.

[methman]

Play your strenghths and your interests. I will make the job a bit more bearable!

[mdaniels]

My son is going in feb 06. So I am an outsider to all this. this sounds stupid but  I know what a mm , em and et are
but what is elt?

[hamsamich]

ELT stands for "Engineering Laboratory Technician".  Mechanics are usually the only ones who can be an ELT in most situations.  Usually chosen in prototype, the lucky mechanic has to complete his quals as a mechanic first, then he will go to ELT school and qual at the same (usually) prototype as an ELT.  About 10% or so of Mechanics are chosen to go on to be ELTs.  ELTs can either be half mechanic half ELT depending if   they are surface or sub.  Subs usually make the ELT do as much MM stuff as ELT stuff but this still varies somewhat on the ability of the ELT and how RL and M Div decide to do things.  Surface ELTs are mostly just ELTs but some can qualify and do MM stuff.  An ELT performs the radiological and water chemistry duties aboard ship, such as primary coolant sampling and swipe contamination surveys.  When I was an ELT on baord the USS Norfolk (fast attack sub) we usually stood a mechanic watchstation called "Engine Room Forward", so we could do samples at the secondary sample sink while on watch.  RL div is usaually the coolest division on baord the sub, followed by M Div, E Div, then finally, RC Div.  Uh-oh, the backlash on  this one outta be funny.  RL div is usually the smallest division of nucs, very tight-knit as I have seen.  ELTs wear many hats, especially on board subs. 

[mdaniels]

thanks, but that raises another question. I served on convential carrier 30 yrs ago, H-Div , so what is RL and RC div
consist of?

[hamsamich]

RL Div.  Reactor Laboratory Div
RC Div.  Reactor Controls Div

[irmechanek]

Here is the thing... you don't REALLY get to choose. I would say almost everyone I know wanted to be an ET, for whatever reason, but that does not mean you will get it. what happens is that in Boot Camp you get pulled aside into this room, you watch a video, you ask questions to a senior chief, then you make a list of what you prefer. If you want to be an MM, you'll be an MM, but that's the only guarentee. They will pick for you what you will be, based on your test scores.  I am thrilled to be an MM. first, school is shorter. Second, I will be actually using tools and fixing things, as opposed to pushing buttons.

[s_Phoenix]

Work time's are a little wrong.  In RC div, we started work at 6:00 am, we would try to beat the flag "go home before the flag is up @ 8:00 am" if we didn't have training that day, other wise we stayed to 9-10 am.  About 4 times a qtr we stay late. 

EM's have been getting the shaft, because they keep messing up.  And have been staying untill 3-4 pm everyday but friday.  And underway they have training several times a day.

MM's are little differt on CVN's because there split in to 2 group's.  RM div work on shiny pipe a.k. stainless steal pipe.  They stay untill about 12 - 1 pm.
        M-div on CVN's, work on brown pipe, carbon steal pipe.  They tend to stay untill about 3 pm most day's.

ELT's just dont work, they hide and leave ASAP.  If you can get them to work they leave by 10 am.  They leave all there work to they duty section.

As for who advance's the fastest,  I've seen 6 EM make chief in 6 year's, but that's just because there dump enough to re-enlist when they get to the ship.  Em's dont trend to make 2nd untill several tries in the fleet as all the advancement is taken up by those that re-enlist.  Bujt they make 1st there first time up most of the time

      We've have 2 Et's make chief in 6-8 year's.  And for Sub Et's it can be just as quick or quicker.  Et's that dont re-enlist can make 2nd & 1st on there first time up at sea. 

MM are somewhere in between.  They can advance just as fast to 2nd & 1st, but tend to take longer to make chief.

ET2 (SW)
CVN 76

[bmr176]

This is just my two cents but, if you are planning on going for an officer program the rating you pick really won't make a difference.  Maybe MM because you will be through NukE school sooner than the others.
As far as seeing the world?  that all depends on what ship/boat you get on and what they are up to at the time.  When I first got to the mighty USS Norfolk we couldn't stay in port for more than two weeks at a time.  then just after I got out it went to the yards for 18 months.  I've heard guys do entire "sea tours" doing carrier overhauls and refits, while others do 8 month deployments to the gulf.
Each rating has its ups and downs too.  There is no one rating that is a good deal and no one rating that is a bad deal.  Sure ET's dont get as dirty and go home at 1000.  thats untill they get a little crazy chief that keeps them feild daying lube oil bays till 1600 everyday. 
Every palce you go and everyone you talk to will have different experiences.  I could completely talk you into any one rate on any one ship and it could seem like the dream job and you could get there and say "If I EVER meet that guy who talked me into this i'm gonna..."
Personally I was an electrician (EM) on subs.  I loved my job.  I was proud of  my work.  I made some of the best friends a person can ever have.  But I hated alot of the B.S. and knew I could do better.
Good Luck,
Rember nothing in life is free.  The more something seems like its to good to be true it probably is, and the more something seems to suck, the more rewarding it probably will be.

[sometoasteroven]

So, i deleted my thread because i found this... oh well...

anyways...

My primary question is one for direction, i'm trying to determine a little plan in my head on what would be best for me. I keep hearing little things all over the place but i was looking for a clear understanding of some of the responsibilities and avenues of each of the ratings.

I keep toying around with all of them because i don't know much more than very very basic information., which if anyone has anything they can add to that, it would be terrific, because the nuke recruting coordinator in my area (northern il) is fairly limited on what they tell me. a little bit of contrasting the three would help my understanding. i understand that there's gonna be more information spewed at me in the future... but i'd like to make a long and conscious decision about this. so anything that could help separate the three would be terrific. most specifically i'm inquiring about as much technical detail of job descriptions as would be allowed to be given, and secondly the demeanor of the programs, with specialites, and beliefs. and lastly i heard something once about nuke chem, and if anyone knows enough to enlighten me... please do so...

thanks

[shayne]

Choosing a Rate in the Nuclear Navy isn't much of a choice.  If you choose to go into the Nuclear Navy, your rate (EM, ET, MM) will be given to you.  You will be allowed to input what rates you want, however that doesn't mean you will get it.  The selection of your rate will be made when you are in Bootcamp.  I got lucky and choose EM, ET, then MM and got EM.  Most who choose MM first, get MM.  Regardless of your rate, you will still learn all the basic principles of each rate.  Approx 50% MM, 30% EM, and 20% ET.

MM work and operate the steam/water/lube oil systems in the plant and the machinery associated with it.  They perform maintenance on pumps, valves, air conditioners, and turbines.  They have the most in depth knowledge of mechanical engineering principles.

EM work and operate on the electrical generation equipment and motors.  They perform maintenance on the electrical systems in the plant such as switchgears, motor control centers, and generators (turbine and diesel).  Most in depth knowledge of electrical engineering principles.

ET work and operate on the instrumentation of the plant/reactor.  They perform maintenance on the reactor plant control systems.  In depth knowledge of nuclear engineering and control/process principles.

ELT/MM control the chemisty of the steam and reactor plant.  They also are the radiation technicians that do the monitoring of cleanliness (contamination) and personal exposure controls.  In depth knowledge of chemical engineering and radiation principles.  ELTs are trained to be MM first.  At prototype, they are choosen to be ELT and will stay in the pipeline learn the ELT job.

Most of time a Navy Nuke is on watch operating the plant when underway (w/ some maintenance).  In port most of your time will be doing preventive maintenance and some corrective maintenance (w/ some watchstanding).

Another good post for information:
http://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/topic,5193.0.html

[M1Ark]

Shayne is right on the money.

Most of the previous postings have been biased towards their respective rating.  I'll go ahead and add some of mine.

The question of which rate is the best is all based on perspective and also depends on your long term goals. Do you want to stay in or go commercial nuke or even non-nuclear civilian industry. All of the rates are given training in the other fields.  The one thing that no-one has really talked about is which rate has the opportunity to develop their leadership skills. Leadership is what helped propel my commercial nuclear power experience.

Surface cruiser life was the most horrible experience I have ever endured in my nuclear career.  I reported as a senior MM2 (4 year point) and shortly made MM1.  I was a staff pickup at prototype and was made the leading petty officer of M1 division (34 MM's).  We were understaffed... the sub fleet got their quota's filled followed by the carrier fleet.  While underway my division worked looong hours.  When in port we worked 4 section duty and 10-12 hour days to fix broken equipment and also perform a huge PM schedule.

I envy the other ratings that went home before the flag raising ceremony or even the ones that went home at 10 am while in port. I on the other hand had to figure out ways to make all of this work and convince 34 MM's to do their jobs while they watched their fellow nukes go home before lunch.  I had to hone my all of the leadership skills  to prevent a disaster.  After all I slept in the same berthing as these guys.  Other rates have leadership opportunities, but it's probably easier to lead when you're telling your workers to go home by 10 am.

I've now spent the past 12 years at a commercial nuclear plant and have received increasing levels of responsibilities.  I am currently a control room supervisor and surrounded by hundreds of ex-navy nukes on a daily basis. At my particular plant the 4 ratings are techicians in their respective field and the operations department is staffed with primarily mechanics. I'm not sure the exact reason why that is.  The ex-MM's we have tend to make very good reactor operators and control room supervisors.

Further examples:

Site Vice-President - Ex-MM1
Plant Manager - Ex-MM1
Engineering Manager - Ex-MM1
Operations Supervisor - Ex-MM1
Majority of licensed operators - Ex-MM1's

And yes... we still make fun of ET's and ELT's.

Hows that for biased?  Everything I've mentioned is true.  Nobody at our plant really thinks much of ones previous navy experience but know full and well ones current leadership ability.  I think that is what makes the real difference.

My .02 cents.

[Fermi2]

Great post M1Ark, right on the money.

Mike