lost cause?

[Fermi2]

Simple, The Navy didn't make him cheat. He cheated. Thousands of other people have made it through the nuclear program without cheating.

LOL I never said I wasn't mean. What part of hard nosed, hard arsed implies I'm anything but mean.

As for these

Quote from: Broadzilla on May 22, 2009, 14:11
Are you even a Nuke yet? By that I mean been through Nuke School and Qualified all your watches.

Quote from: Broadzilla on Apr 14, 2009, 19:23
And I'm a real life qualified Shift Manager on both BWR and PWRs. A janitor.

Quote from: Broadzilla on Mar 07, 2009, 14:34
I'm a Shift Manager at both BWRs and PWRs but I think you're lazy and was offended...

Everyone of them was true, and responses to those who were talking from a point of no knowledge. What makes you think I'd want to be your friend?

Mike

[bradley535]

Please refer to my previous commentary about skunks and lilacs.

Also refer to the discussion about not being able to believe anything you say. This is why. You don't tell the truth; you try to prove a point. I think it would be lying if it weren't that I am almost certain that you do get yourself to believe it. Take the quotes:


   The one from May 22, where you berated someone for posting with, "Are you even a Nuke yet?", was to a guy giving a post that he loved his job, and that you do get "Nuke" pay for being a "Navy Nuke". In the same post you even go on to agree with him;
His post:

A LOT of us really LOVE our job as Nukes. Please do not under estimate that, as you are still an outsider.
Officers get Nuke Bonuses, THIS IS NUKE PAY.

Your reply:

Are you even a Nuke yet? By that I mean been through Nuke School and Qualified all your watches.

In answer to Steph, Without any background whatsoever why would you assume someone wasn't telling you the truth.

1: Yes many of us love our jobs though at times I want to do something else.

2: Yes Nukes get extra bonus pay provided they meet certain qualifications and positions.

   The one from April 14, where you gave the advice that a 6.5year Nuclear Navy officer with a BS in Physics and a Masters in Operations Management was only qualified to post for a janitor position, was to a commercial nuclear recruiter. Shift Manager or not, the recruiter probably has the most valid "point of knowledge" when it comes to what experience qualifies for minimum requirements to apply.

   The one on March 07 was a post you made to someone that was asking a question, not posing as someone in the know. Your need to specify that you were infinitely more qualified was 100% unnecessary.

   And now to reply to mine with a "But I've actually accomplished something, how about you." comment. Once again, completely useless to the topic at hand. I am quite capable and knowledgeable about integrity. I've had it instilled into me since I was a little boy, and have every right to post my views on it. So once again, you have thrown about the bullying tactic in hopes to shut someone up.

   I kind of feel bad, because I goaded you and carried it through. Each time I posted, from the get-go, I knew it would elicit a response from you; how could it not. I knew you would blow some wind about why you are right and anyone disagreeing with you is wrong. I walked you through the path, but there was a reason for me doing it. Normally, I would have stayed out of this, but BigHouz came here looking for advice, and if he looks at your advice and takes it as a good source then he's making a mistake. He needs to see just what kind of person is giving him that advice, so I've shown him, and now I'm done.

   You are right in that the Navy did not make him cheat. He failed in that aspect, but from the beginning post he already knew that. He made a mistake. A bad one. The Navy will make sure he knows this. I don't think it should ruin his life or his chances at what could otherwise be a promising career.

   As for why you would want to be my friend, don't worry about it. I'm sure that you will be just fine without another friend. It's just another sunset.

[xforcehunter]

Are you guys done?  Why don't you just give one another a huge online hug and move on?

[HydroDave63]

100 quatloos for the newcomer!


On-topic: Hopefully BigHouz has seen that there is more than one train of thought on this issue, and that many of us would like to see him truthfully disclose and get a good career on track!

[Marlin]

Hopefully this was a learning event, and a new start. It will not be easy and it will rarely be fair.

[jsilvavalentin]

hey all, up date here.

13 people I know of were masted. 8 people are in the process of being discharged including myself. An incredible amount of people were implicated. Im currently i na dogfight trying to upgrade my discharge prior to being released. Most people received reduction in rate, 30 days restriction, and half months pay 1x. Im still confused how some of the people are being retained and we are being kicked out for doing the same things. take care everyone.

Wow dude! That sucks! I have a family member of mine in RE over there that I haven't talked to in a while. Hopefully he is alright and didn't get caught up in all of this. As for you, good luck with anything you decide to do in the future. Hopefully you've learned from all this that happened and take all this "leassons learned" with you to wherever you decide to go next.

As for the cheating in the nuke navy thing, while I agree that it's on you and only you to decide whether to do it or not, pretty much from the minute you get to a ship, all you see around you in the ship pretty much makes stuff like this a daily occurence. People become indifferent to it and take stuff like cheating on exams or quals for it being "normal". Now is it right? Of course not. I've seen how the quality of the operators in our Rx Department has gone downhill over the last year or so because of this, and the difference is that before we were actually expected to have knowledge before going to get a checkout (this probably from being on a precomm and having nothing else to do), while now it's more a "learn it while you stand watch" mentality. This is the same mentality that goes back to the training pipeline whenever this nukes go back for their respective instructor duty, therefore most of the nukes expect that their quals and tests will be 'given' to them with no effort from their part. I personally hate not knowing something, especially something I'm supposed to know, so I make sure I know it, but then again, I enjoy nuclear power way more than I ever thought I would.

[jsilvavalentin]

Sooooooo,....

As a civilian,.....

Should I be worried if I live near a port where nuke ships are homeported?!?!?!?

Should I be worried if a Navy Nuclear Prototype is in my backyard?!?!?!?!

Are you guys safe?!?!?!?!?

I don't think anyone should be worried about any of our operations whether its a ship or a prototype. I mean there are incompetent people working in all kinds of industries, and stuff like this happens at one point or another in any place, navy or not. I will not even fathom the thought of thinking that I know everything about the nuclear navy, or nuclear power in general, but I know that we operate as safe as we could ever be, even with the hiccups here and there. I think it is our goal and our mission as navy nukes to keep operating as safe as we have and to stop this things like cheating on a CTE from happening whenever they come up by any means available. Being human is a journey where you learn everyday, and so is being a nuke. You can know the RPMs word by word and still be the most incompetent PPWS or CRW or RO. But that is no excuse for lacking integrity and I agree with weeding out the people that cheat their way around. I agree that it should be stopped. But its naive to believe that this doesn't happen anywhere else. All we can do is stop ot whenever we see it, and make those that come after us better operators and better people.

[Harley Rider]

You can know the RPMs word by word and still be the most incompetent PPWS or CRW or RO.

You nailed it there my friend but you forgot to include Chengs, Reactor Officers, Principal Assistants and PPWOs. I will comment on this thread further after I formulate my thoughts on it. Don't want to get anymore PMs from the staff on my personal feelings 

[Preciousblue1965]

I agree with Jsilva about the "learn it on watch" mentality is becoming prevalent.  That being said, there is some wisdom to that notion.  There are simply things that you truly learn while you are on watch that you would never get from a book.  Little tidbits of how two identical machines will operate totally different in certain situations.  Nothing is a better learning experience, in my beliefs, as having to figure out a procedure on your own using just the book and your cognitive abilities.  The other thing that you absolutely CAN NOT get from a book or a qual card is CONFINDENCE.  It is one thing to be qualified to stand a watch and another to be confident that no matter what drill or actual casualty gets thrown at you, you can carry out your actions, recover, and not even miss a set of logs. 

[IRLFAN]

I'm pretty sure the 20 or so people who either know me personally or that I've helped will tell you I'm pretty much everything I know myself to be. They'll all tell you I'm a hard nosed, hard arse SOB but I'm also very fair and I'll run through a brick wall if I think it'll help someone out. 

I'd say that's a pretty good description, specificly the SOB part (just kidding Mike).   

And no I'm not agreeing because Mike helped me get a job, he didn't.  I met Mike after I already had the job. Pretty much everything he posts here rings true to the man I knew.  I wish that he were still in his previous position, because we badly need people like him.

[Fermi2]

Wow thank you IRLFan. Coming from you what you just posted means a heck of a lot. I must have done something right up there. I greatly appreciate your opinion of me and trust me, it's likewise towards you!

Mike

[M1Ark]

I'll run through a brick wall if I think it'll help someone out.

Or a youth tackling sled... LMAO

He's not as much a hard ass as you might think.  He's views are the same as mine but his delivery is very different.  But at least you won't get double talk from, Mike.  He calls it like he sees it. 

On a side note... he is a very funny dude to work with.  Ask him about the Brittany Spears and Cheetos story, or the bathroom urinal placement and use theory.  It might lighten your mood towards Broadzilla.

[M1Ark]

Sooooooo,....

As a civilian,.....

Should I be worried if I live near a port where nuke ships are homeported?!?!?!?

Should I be worried if a Navy Nuclear Prototype is in my backyard?!?!?!?!

Are you guys safe?!?!?!?!?

Nah... those baby reactors were design for 18 year olds. 

[M1Ark]

I'd say that's a pretty good description, specificly the SOB part (just kidding Mike).   

And no I'm not agreeing because Mike helped me get a job, he didn't.  I met Mike after I already had the job. Pretty much everything he posts here rings true to the man I knew.  I wish that he were still in his previous position, because we badly need people like him.

IRLFAN,

Judging by your user name and association with Mike from the land up north that you are a Fermi I&C Tech.  (PM inbound)

[Fermi2]

Or a youth tackling sled... LMAO

He's not as much a hard ass as you might think.  He's views are the same as mine but his delivery is very different.  But at least you won't get double talk from, Mike.  He calls it like he sees it. 

On a side note... he is a very funny dude to work with.  Ask him about the Brittany Spears and Cheetos story, or the bathroom urinal placement and use theory.  It might lighten your mood towards Broadzilla.

GRRRR the blocking sled. I still maintain that sled would have broken an NFL Linemans back. I doubt I ever outlive that one !!!!

[Bighouz107501]

For all those interested the whole investigation is the cover story for the navy times this month

[IPREGEN]

Here is the on-line version
http://www.navytimes.com/news/2009/11/navy_truman_112309w/

[jowlman]

Not to pick on someone, but I would be curious to know if Broadzilla was implicated in the "Icebaby" incident during SQN's SGR and the follow up investigation. People might not have cheated, but there were definitely some integrity violations going on then.

[Higgins]

I think you guys are right and wrong with some things about the Navy exams. From my experience on submarines as a training P.O. for 2 years the exams are very political. You can't have too many failures, you can't have too little failures, your average G.P.A. can't be too high/low. These are unrealistic expectations from the command. Worse, if any of the above happens you get yelled at, have to resubmit new tests for review, have to explain personally to the X.O. why you're division's grades are so different this month compared to previous months. After beating my head against the wall for a couple of months I usually submitted a test, but then tore the last couple of pages out, gave my guys the 3-4 questions that I thought would challenge them, and graded them on a bell curve to what the command wanted. I never considered this cheating nor lowering my integrity, but you have to be careful about what other people perceive.

I do agree that integrity should be top priority as well as standing a safe and productive watch. But a lot of sailors cheat because the system is designed for failure from an administrative point of view. I made it a personal point to never allow someone to qualify a watch station that I felt had insufficient knowledge. I wouldn't hesitate to scratch signatures and spend some extra time to teach something to junior personnel.

We need to correct the root problems that cause this. Excessive under-manning, longer hours, increased operational commitments, and older plants that require more maintenance and 'care' just exacerbate the issue. Occasionally you have to put something off until you have time for it later and it's usually continual training tests or miscellaneous paperwork. You're right to condemn someone for cheating, it shouldn't be allowed at all, but don't point the finger solely at the individual.

[cruzcampo]

I'm no expert about anything in the commercial end of the industry, but from other managerial experiences outside of the industry, I can say I have taken place in the hunting down and eliminating of personell who felt it necessary to lower their standards and, in effect, steal from the company I was working for.  In one case, my boss decided to pardon one such employee and allow him to keep his job. 

This particular experience taught me two lessons:

1) Absolutes are fallacies.  I had said myself that I would never want this employee working for me again and yet, by the time I left the company, he was my best employee.  Never say never.

2)  Redemption is possible, but it depends on the individual's drive to redeem themselves.

To the integrity issue I will say only this, I can certainly see that it is getting to be a harder place to maintain it, and that what should be black and white is shifting to various shades of grey.  I don't know if it's possible to judge anyone accurately if they fought the good fight and lost.  It happens.  Go break open your bible and read Job. 

I'm trying to remember who it was but there was a 49ers game years ago where there a particular defensive lineman got an offsides.  He came back on the next down and sacked the quarterback for a big loss on the next down.  Later they were reviewing the videos and this particular lineman was blushing when the coach pointed out the offsides and told everyone to watch.  He was embarrassed.  Then they showed the sack and the coach went and said something to the effect of the mistakes we make are less important than what we do after we make them.

Now I know there's a Rickover quote about success teaching nothing, and only failure teaching.  Gnaw on that a little.