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jjordan

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Remote Monitoring
« on: Jul 14, 2004, 08:56 »
I've inherited the Remote Monitoring Program here at Brunswick, and was wondering which sites have the best remote setups. Which brands of hardwre, software, cameras, and telecommunications do they use? Would also like to know about there training for their program. We are looking to improve our setup, and need some fresh ideas! 

Offline dosetek

Re: Remote Monitoring
« Reply #1 on: Jul 14, 2004, 09:14 »
Check with St. Lucie they have had a really good system and recently improved on it.They (if it hasn't changed) have MG, with a room dedicated to nothing but tv's and computers to monitor the various areas by telemetry,radio and video. Also Ft. Calhoun just put a new system (room also dedicated with same) in last outage they can tell you the pros and cons of their system. Their tele's are siemens, if im not mistaken.

jjordan

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Re: Remote Monitoring
« Reply #2 on: Jul 14, 2004, 02:11 »
Thanks,
Our system isn't too bad, we use MG ED's and GEDDS software by MJW. We want to improve though. I'm also trying to help our sister sites set something up, and are looking to standardize for all the Progress Energy sites! :P
Thanks,
JJ

jjordan

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Re: Remote Monitoring
« Reply #3 on: Jul 16, 2004, 10:21 »
San Onofres is very good, I helped install it in a previous life! They benchmarked against Vogtel, and they said theirs was still better, haven't seen it yet. Hope someone can tell me a little about it! May be a little ice cream in it for ya! ;D
JJ

jjordan

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Re: Remote Monitoring
« Reply #4 on: Jul 19, 2004, 10:41 »
Going to be at the MG users group next week and hopefully I'll get more info there, but if you know of a good system, or a utility that uses it well, or maybe one that has exemplory training. Feel free to post it here! :P
Thanks,
JJ
« Last Edit: Jul 19, 2004, 10:41 by JJordan »

jjordan

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Re: Remote Monitoring
« Reply #5 on: Jul 21, 2004, 06:59 »
Still looking for input! ;) I needed to repost something here since Mike got ambitious  and posted  a zillion things and drove this topic into oblivion! :'( Would like to hear about any facilities that have Remote Systems and ones that use them well! 8)
JJ

Bulletproof

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Re: Remote Monitoring
« Reply #6 on: Jul 22, 2004, 01:10 »
Talk to Leonard Earls or Gwenna Kelton at STP.  We use Seimens here and the system works real well.  They could give you the specifics. 

jjordan

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Re: Remote Monitoring
« Reply #7 on: Jul 22, 2004, 07:39 »
Thanks Bulletproof! In a former life I did 2 outages at STP using remote monitoring. It was before you had your own equipment! First time I covered  the S/G with Bartlett's software and MG's, second time it was the Refuel Floor with Bartlett software and SAIC. That outage you had purchased some MG equipment and software, but were having difficulty making it work!
JJ
« Last Edit: Jul 22, 2004, 09:05 by JJordan »

Bulletproof

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Re: Remote Monitoring
« Reply #8 on: Jul 22, 2004, 08:05 »
I remember that.  The set up we have now with a Command Center, Audio, video, and remote monitoring of personell and airborne seems to work well for us.

jjordan

  • Guest
Re: Remote Monitoring
« Reply #9 on: Jul 22, 2004, 09:15 »
Sound excellent! We are kind of locked into  MG dosimeters for now, but what is the brand of monitoring software? Also what kind of air samples do you use? We have about 10 AMS4's but we want to use them to replace our CAMs , but they aren't quite there yet! They work well for particulate, and we also have a noble gas head. But we are unable to quantify iodine lacking a TEDE impregnated filter. We are trying to get eberline to modify but they are way too busy selling tons of stuff to homeland security(They have lots of money and don't have a clue of what they need or want!) Also trying to get F&J to make a charcoal patch, but so far no luck! :-\
Thanks,
JJ

Bulletproof

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Re: Remote Monitoring
« Reply #10 on: Jul 23, 2004, 02:12 »
 Not sure what monitoring software we use - that is beyond the scope of my knowledge.  For air monitoring we have AMS 4's with transmitters.  The air monitoring and dose monitoring can can be accessed on our LAN so this information can be monitored from any computer on site.  We use carbon impregnated filter papers in the AMS 4's for iodine monitoring.  We have mouthballed all of our CAM's.  We have also come up with an arrangement for the AMS 4's for job coverage that we call a snorkel tube that allows us to leave the AMS 4 at some distance away from the work but still allows us to monitior air concentration from our command center.  Of course we still use the traditional air samplers from time to time.

Our command center has 13 - 20 inch television monitors that we use to monitor cameras placed in containment.  Everthing is set up in three stations, Refuel, Steam Generators, and Balance of RCB.  Each station has four monitors to monitor cameras, a computer to monitor air concentration and worker exposure, and a communications station that can provide communications to different work groups on different channels.  The final touch is a DVD recorder for use when needed and a color printer to print surveys for briefing workers.  All of our surveys are documented electroniclly.   

One other arrangement we have is what we call a "crash cart".  When the need arises we can set up all of these functions in a localizsed area.  This arrangement works good for us and as expected we are trying to improve on it all the time.       

Duker77

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Re: Remote Monitoring
« Reply #11 on: Jul 23, 2004, 11:35 »
At Nine Mile Point, we have installed a pretty extensive Remote Monitoring System over the last 2 years and it has worked well for us.  We use MG dosimeters and Bartlett RMS software.  We have just started using Ams-4's.  If you go to the Users group meeting next week, talk to Tim Sollenberger.  He can give you many intimate details.

Mike

jjordan

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Re: Remote Monitoring
« Reply #12 on: Jul 23, 2004, 11:43 »
Thanks Bulletproof, you're the best! It sounds similar to what we have, but as I said, I'm trying to improve! ;D We do the same with the AMS4's, we use a charcoal patch, but so far haven't been able to quantify the iodine, have lots of issues we need to workl out! We also use the remote head with a hose for job coverage, nice to have live time information! 8) We have aprox 250 area monitors in areas of concern in both units that are installed year round. Same with our ALARA cameras. We have a bigger need at power than the PWR's since our TB's are hotter than firecrackers, and a lot of our rooms in the RB, and RW are locked. In PWR's lots of this equipment is in CTMT. It's taken me a long time but have finally gotten a penetration into the D/W for an antenna for power entries! But haven't gotten this operational as of yet. Still need a few more wires for some sort of communications though, I'll have to try and wear them down for that! :-\ We also use a crash cart for some situations whena LAN connection isn't available, Iv'e just gotten them to the point of using GEDDS in a standalone version opposed to using WinWrrm, and our client can do either, deppending on having a network connection handy. GEDDS is also available from any computer in the plant as we have a web view. I want to talk to somebody there about how you address the iodine issue. Who would be a good person? I worked for Roger Aguilera (is he Chrsitina's Daddy?) ;) and I know Gerald Simmons real well. Could you give me some contact information for somebody too talk to!
Thanks,
JJ :P
« Last Edit: Jul 23, 2004, 11:51 by JJordan »

jjordan

  • Guest
Re: Remote Monitoring
« Reply #13 on: Jul 23, 2004, 11:49 »
Mike,
Thanks, was already planning to do that! Will be there and saw that Tim is giving a presentation, and will try to talk with him. One of the supervisors from Harris just did a benchmarking trip there and over to Fitz, he liked what he saw at 9 Mile. I did 2 outages up there, but was before you used telemetry! Gonna see if I can get back and see it myself!
JJ  ;D
« Last Edit: Jul 23, 2004, 11:52 by JJordan »

gakelton

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Re: Remote Monitoring
« Reply #14 on: Jul 26, 2004, 08:06 »
Well, Bulletproof pretty much covered how we do things here at STP.  For specifics, we use Teletrak as our telemetry monitoring software, Siemens dosimetry with transmitters for personnel monitoring.  The Siemens (now Thermo) Users Group meeting will be in a couple of weeks.  One of the up and coming devices from Thermo is Viewpoint.  Viewpoint is the latest replacement for Teletrak.  For any Teletrak users out there, you know the disadvantages to it.  Viewpoint will allow two way radio communication.  That will allow us to change setpoints from the Command Center if the need arises.  We're supposed to receive Viewpoint sometime during August so the Dr. and I will get the chance to play with it and see how it is going to work for us.  The real test is usage during an outage.

We still use SAIC for diving operations and would like to find something more reliable.  What does everyone else out there use for monitoring divers?

Gwenna

Offline SloGlo

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Re: Remote Monitoring
« Reply #15 on: Jul 26, 2004, 06:52 »
jjordan....yinze got a green lite to go on the road reseerching alla this stuff? 
seriously, when you get this pulled together, drop me a line with it, ok?  seems like i keep running into situations where remote monitoring is limited by how loud one can holler.  'n them sutherners ar tuff two compeet wit! ;)
quando omni flunkus moritati

dubble eye, dubble yew, dubble aye!

dew the best ya kin, wit watt ya have, ware yinze are!

jjordan

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Re: Remote Monitoring
« Reply #16 on: Aug 19, 2004, 09:31 »
Sloglo,
I'm back! Sloglo, are you looking to put together something where you are? Maybe I can help. Let me know what you are after. I still would like more specifics on how STP is quantifying  iodine with an AMS4. As far as covering divers, we have 10 SAIC dosimeters, but didn't use them. We (PGN) have MG dosimeters at all of our sites (except CR3) and the techs are familiar with them. Also we use GEDDS for remote monitoring, and it interfaces with TE and MGPAC well. We used the MUX 2000 with our MG 2000's and it worked OK. Several problems noted! only 5 ports on the MUX, need 6! Doesn't transmit fast enough, takes 3 sec/ port x 5 ports= 15 sec total time between transmissions. Also we were diving round the clock using cool suits, and the humidity I/S suit drowned a lot of our MUXes. MG has a spray for the board to make it more moisture resistant, but if used makes it unrepairable! I reccomend having plenty of MUXes, and changing out with each diver and letting them air dry for a while before reusing to dissapate all of the moisture. We bagged ours with a seal a meal with a pack of desicant I/S and this helped a lot, but it's a very hostile enviroment . You have the same issues with the SAIC, but when you lose it you also lose the dosimetric function, MG's keep working as EDs (waterproof) just loose the radio transmitter (MUX) Talked to the engineer at MG and they can speed up the transmission time and add extra ports, with a wire dongle (case isn't big enough for extra ports) We are going to try this and will let everyone know how it works! Things are always lovely by the pool! 8)
JJl

Offline Hasher

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Re: Remote Monitoring
« Reply #17 on: Aug 27, 2004, 09:29 »
I would like any feedback available on the following issues:

First off, has anyone utilized two different vendors at the same time? ( specifically MG and Thermo [Seimens] ).  We are running a pilot test on some equipment and I just wanted to know if anyone else has tried to run both sytems at once.  They will both have data managed by a single software interface for Job Coverage. (supposed to look seamless)

Secondly, with MG what is the general opex (opinion) on 900Mhz versus 2.4 Ghz?

Thirdly, are you guys running  web cams for job coverage?  If so, what is your consensus versus traditional cameras involving a switcher?

Lastly, has anyone attempted a voice over LAN communication network?

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Have a great weekend,

Cheers.
Cheers,

Hasher

jjordan

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Re: Remote Monitoring
« Reply #18 on: Sep 01, 2004, 09:22 »
Hasher,
Here's the short version. Will give you more later. Software allows you to use different hardware manufactures at the same time. Bartletts is the best by far! Best support also. But if you're like me, ya got to dance with the lady that brought ya! We have GEDDS, and it has that capability, but we don't have the need. We use only MG's and it works well for us. CR3 our sister plant uses teletrac and Siemens dosimeters, but they use MG's for area monitors also, and they have very little trouble doing it, so it can be done. Tell me what softwarte and what hardware you have, and I'll se if I can reccomend anything. We run our cameras independent of the telemetry(Pelco) but Indusstrial video has a way to send over the LAN we are looking at. But NIT has issues with us using to much bandwidth you need to consider this with all web based apps! Probably won't let us even if I beg! :-* :-* :-*
More to follow when I can find some spare time!
Does anyone know the charge code for that!
JJ

jjordan

  • Guest
Re: Remote Monitoring
« Reply #19 on: Sep 17, 2004, 08:47 »
Hey does anyone know if SAIC still makes and supports the PDE4's? I'm trying to find out for Sloglo, but can't find them on their web site. I know we had the firmware in ours upgraded last year. Haven't had time to call Dana Emmons to see. He always gave me excellent support! ;D Does anyone still use them and which sites?
JJ

KevsHarley

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Re: Remote Monitoring
« Reply #20 on: Sep 17, 2004, 09:23 »
I don't think they use the PDE-4 any more. They went to the PD-10 which is about the same as the PDE-4. I'm not sure what you looking for, but you can read all about them on the SAIC web site.

Offline makua13

Re: Remote Monitoring
« Reply #21 on: Sep 18, 2004, 04:16 »
JJ
Rick engel here, RMS is my specia;ity and I have been to Brunswick with the Bartlett system and I have worked there in maintenance of your equipment.
Number 1; Bartletts software is bt far the best on the market and the only one that can be modified for your own applications, 24/7 assistance from the programmer.  You guys have got the best iodine monitoring system with the AMS4s, there just isnt anything better in the RMS area right now.  Is Jim Hinson still there?  Your AMS4s did need a modification as Eberlines pumps and filtering is real bad.  Fermi 2 has a fantastic mod for them (bertossib @dteenergy.com).
Pelco has the best cameras (although expensive) and you guys already have the best controllers (I went to Pelco school with your people).  The main parts of the system are the controllers, which yoiu have, and intercom.  The main cameras shold be Pelcos ,I really like Panasonic cameras better, but your controllers are Pelco and they are real good too, however alot of your cameras do not need to be pan and tilt and you can buy a bunch of cameras for cheap that work real good.  Monitors also, not Pelco or Sony as they are very expensive...a monitor is a monitor, so buy elsewhere.  Sharp makes the best monitor (my opinion based on 39 yrs experience) and 1/4 the cost of Sony.  I know, last time I was there, you really needed fiber optics to link all the stuff together.  You were working on it but had a non-responsive company doing some work and you wanted to keep most of it "inhouse" instead of bringing in a contractor.  Reading the previous posts; forget SONGS as their system is totally different from yours.  Most plants I have seen are similar, you just need an SME to come in, inventory your equipment, analyze your needs, and assist in designing a package.  I can assist in some areas if you wish, or can help you locate a responsible contractor.  The most important thing though, is the software, and if you do not go Bartlett you will be making a mistake (promise).
It has to be expandable, adaptable, and able to handle all brands of equipment.  There is only one.
Live Aloha

jjordan

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Re: Remote Monitoring
« Reply #22 on: Sep 18, 2004, 11:28 »
Rick,
Thanks, I remember you, when you were here last I was probably the outside tech.(Yankees don't mind foul weather) :P Yes Bill Hinson is still here, together we are the Brunswick compliment to the Progress Energy Remote Monitoring Focus Group. Our goal is to help all 4 of the Progress sites to develope and implement remote monitoring. We all have varing degrees of capabilities usage and equipment. We are trying to standardize the software and equipment to economize by making group purchases, also enableling us to share more effectivley. We have quite a few SME's already employed with Progress Energy, Myself, Jim Skinner, and Cornell Gaines are all former Bartlett RMS techs, and Mike Seabock is very profficient with the Pelco System as are several other individuals.I whole heartedly agree that Bartletts software is the best by far! And Dan Doxtader is the best programmer in the buisiness. He does provide true 24/7 support, which nobody else can come close to matching. We are considering other software, but 3 of 4 sites already own MJW (GEDDS) With our restrictive budgets a major software purchase is painfull, GEDDS works for us, but we are trying to work with MJW to enhance it to do some things it doesn't do that we need! (communicating with AMS4's) I was responsible for the purchasing of the AMS4's and agree that they are about as good as it gets for remote monitoring, but we have several issues with them and mentioned this to Eberline's rep that visited us last week. We talk with Fermi a bit, I've worked several outages there and know most everyone, and will see what kind of mod they have. Our main concern is we want to replace our old NMC CAMs with them , but haven't been able to figure out an easy ecconomical way to quantify Iodine. I was hoping to find a little help here, STP showed some promise, would love to hear more from them! ;D As for our video, Brunswick has a lot of Pelco equipment, Harris has a good bit Robinson has none and Crystal River has Panasonic. We're trying to get a little bit more standard here but the cost is prohibitive, will have to do it in stages. Thanks for the input on monitors, will look at the Sharps when we purchase again. We have a fairly good fiber backbone at Brunswick , but we don't controll it. We have a excellent relationship with our NIT group and hope we can get what we need. I know SONGS's system isn't what I need here,(I helped install it) but I'm also trying to help the other 3 PWR sites, and it would work for them. My ultimate goal is for a permenant penetration and installation. So we can use during power entries (almost there) also will save time and dose during outages ;) When you comming back? We can use you in instruments! Thanks for all of your input, it's always helpfull.
JJ
« Last Edit: Sep 18, 2004, 11:32 by JJordan »

Offline makua13

Re: Remote Monitoring
« Reply #23 on: Sep 18, 2004, 02:53 »
I am sorry to hear you talk about GEDDS and upgrades.  This will be the limiting factor for your system.  It can not do anything like the Bartlett system.  The other major software  has bugs that allows people to dissappear from the screen with loss of monitoring (2 exposures over work limits at 2 plants that I am aware of).  You get the Bartlett software and then bring me down there for a couple of weeks and I will show you hoe to save enough money to pay the difference.  As Confusious says "If your software sucks, so does your system."  You can not effectively manage several jobs and locations with it.  Come to Fermi ( I will be there next week) and we can talk and demo or meet me at Ft Calhoun or Wolf Creek this Spring.  I really hate to see a Plant make a decision that will hurt and limit them for several outages.  And, oh yeah, the penetration is critical, you have to push for that ASAP.  There are things you may want to monitor during run cycle, and you need a "plug in and go" setup for those pesky unscheduled shutdowns.
Live Aloha

 


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