Pre-Service drug use and NUPOC

[r_o_b]

Hello,
I am a prospective NUPOC candidate whom has inserted himself in perpetual, painful, and very much internal debate.

Check the "NO" box and lie, or check the "YES" box, and be rejected on the basis of honesty and integrity

No doubt, by this point, you have deduced that some of my past judgments were indeed flawed. In high school (sophomore) I experimented  with pot; I never got busted or anything like that, so there are no red flags in my records.

However, if relevant, my family does know about it (not sure if they will be asked this sort of question)

I would VERY MUCH like to just tell the truth and not have to deal with hiding this shit for the rest of my career -- i personally don't think it should matter, i haven't touched any drugs or even been around them for over four years, and it's going to stay that way. However, it SEEMS (from other posts on this forum and others like it) that waivers are long and far from guaranteed. Hence this post and its subsequent questions.

a) Given the fact that I have no criminal record of drug use, but that my family knows about it (who would probably be willing to lie for me, but that's a situation just begging to snowball into some unspeakable bullshitery), is there any way to gauge the likelihood of prior drug use coming to light in the security screening process?

b) how likely is it for someone in my position to be granted a waiver, and will it affect my competitiveness (given a waver is granted)?

c) will my distant/immediate family members be questioned about my drug use?

edit, forgot to say thanks!

[HydroDave63]

Hello,
I am a prospective NUPOC candidate whom has inserted himself in perpetual, painful, and very much internal debate.

Check the "NO" box and lie, or check the "YES" box, and be rejected on the basis of honesty and integrity

No doubt, by this point, you have deduced that some of my past judgments were indeed flawed. In high school (sophomore) I experimented  with pot; I never got busted or anything like that, so there are no red flags in my records.

However, if relevant, my family does know about it (not sure if they will be asked this sort of question)

I would VERY MUCH like to just tell the truth and not have to deal with hiding this shit for the rest of my career -- i personally don't think it should matter, i haven't touched any drugs or even been around them for over four years, and it's going to stay that way. However, it SEEMS (from other posts on this forum and others like it) that waivers are long and far from guaranteed. Hence this post and its subsequent questions.

a) Given the fact that I have no criminal record of drug use, but that my family knows about it (who would probably be willing to lie for me, but that's a situation just begging to snowball into some unspeakable bullshitery), is there any way to gauge the likelihood of prior drug use coming to light in the security screening process?

b) how likely is it for someone in my position to be granted a waiver, and will it affect my competitiveness (given a waver is granted)?

c) will my distant/immediate family members be questioned about my drug use?

edit, forgot to say thanks!

Integrity is part of the program. If you plan to lie, how much integrity is that ?!?

a) Yes, including this post (the internet is forever)

b) it's not just that some wacky right-wing posters on some internet forum don't like drugs, it's that you were knowingly committing a crime while purchasing.

c) everyone you list on the form would be questioned. And they will be asked for people that you didn't list that know you. Any of them that were your buyers or dealers might dime you out.


Less likely outcome:



More likely outcome:

[r_o_b]

You are conscious of the fact that your alphabetized sequence of answers does not correspond to my alphabetized sequence of questions, right? [edit: i'll let you slide on a) because i know what you were getting at, even though it wasn't a yes or no question -.-, i'm more concerned with b), as i have absolutely no idea how you correlated 'wacky right wing posters' to the question i asked)

I fully agree with where you are coming from, but some dumb ass decisions i made as an even more so dumb ass teenager should not deem an otherwise unequivocally eligible candidate ineligible. This is of course only MY opinion, and i am mainly here to find out of the navy will do good on their attempt at fair common ground (the waiver).

[co60slr]

You are conscious of the fact that your alphabetized sequence of answers does not correspond to my alphabetized sequence of questions, right? [edit: i'll let you slide on a) because i know what you were getting at, even though it wasn't a yes or no question -.-, i'm more concerned with b), as i have absolutely no idea how you correlated 'wacky right wing posters' to the question i asked)

I fully agree with where you are coming from, but some dumb ass decisions i made as an even more so dumb ass teenager should not deem an otherwise unequivocally eligible candidate ineligible. This is of course only MY opinion, and i am mainly here to find out of the navy will do good on their attempt at fair common ground (the waiver).

You have no rights to NUPOC.  The Navy doesn't "have" to "do good" on anything with you.   You're asking for a highly coveted "free ride with pay" commissioning program and the Government will decide if you're worthy to receive this Scholarship.  Check "yes" and try for the waiver.  If you don't get it, you know you did your best.  Check "no" and fail a security background investigation and you'll be sent home to mom and dad to explain why you have no integrity.

So a security investigator goes out and asks your friends and family about your drug use.   Yes they will.  So what...if you only "used it once as an experiment" than the likelihood of a waiver is better than if you tried everything 100 times over the last year.  An investigators job is to dig...way beyond the list of friends you provide.  They will look for more people who came in contact with you and they too will get the same questions.   How many inconsistencies in your integrity, character, etc will they find?  That will dictate your success in being trusted (i.e., granted a security clearance).   (Oh...and once you pass a security background check, the one five years later can STILL uncover things you lied about).

Yes, your (and anyone else's) dumbass decisions as a teenager can and often will make you ineligible...for a great many things.  Again, the Government owes you no rehabilitation, charity, food stamps, or federal aid for your mistakes or situation.   This is a job you're asking about, which comes with a LOT of free training.  You seem to suggest that this employer "owes you" a job.  They don't.  Stand in line.

Can you get a drug waiver on the vague information you're provided?  No clue.  And no, they don't care if your family knows.  (This isn't Dr. Phil's TV show intervention program).

What's your current major and GPA?  Perhaps I should have asked this first before wasting 10 minutes typing.

You're going to find very little patience here and in the nuclear industry for stupid drug questions.   How much help you receive depends on your attitude.

[tselby]

You are conscious of the fact that your alphabetized sequence of answers does not correspond to my alphabetized sequence of questions, right? [edit: i'll let you slide on a) because i know what you were getting at, even though it wasn't a yes or no question -.-, i'm more concerned with b), as i have absolutely no idea how you correlated 'wacky right wing posters' to the question i asked)

I fully agree with where you are coming from, but some dumb ass decisions i made as an even more so dumb ass teenager should not deem an otherwise unequivocally eligible candidate ineligible. This is of course only MY opinion, and i am mainly here to find out of the navy will do good on their attempt at fair common ground (the waiver).

R_O_B

I think you have it wrong my friend sorry to say, but as you yourself wrote above, your dumb a$$ decision does indeed make you ineligible. Sorry but that is the simple fact. Now that does not mean you can not apply and ask for a waiver, and if by the grace of the powers that be they grant you a waiver and you are accepted, then if I were you I would buff up on that integrity of yours. Even thinking about lying makes you a liability in my case and I personally would not want you on my ship/submarine, nor would I want you working in my nuclear power plant because you can not be trusted.......................

[r_o_b]

Co60Slr,

I'm a double major in physics and nuclear engineering with a 3.8 GPA in 52 credits.

As for your comment ("Can you get a drug waiver on the vague information you're provided?  No clue.  And no, they don't care if your family knows.  (This isn't Dr. Phil's TV show intervention program)."), upon what information are these waivers granted?

My understanding of this process is as follows:

Waivers are granted independent of any investigation. (This understanding is correct)
Wavers are also granted on the basis of some very basic questions (Type of drug, times uses, periods over which taken, last involvement). (As is this one)
Waivers are granted after and only after an interview (This understanding is speculation)

I guess I just want to know what my chances are and that if I have an opportunity to vocalize my own perspective. No matter what you all preach, rather, what anyone preaches, they have done something that they regret. I regret this and there is damn little else which I do.

As for clearing up the albeit obscure facts presented:

Type of drug  -- marijuana
number of items used -- 8-15
periods over which taken -- 2003-2004
last involvement -- 2004

[r_o_b]

To the community,

If NUPOC turns out to be something that is out of reach on account of my past, would BDCP be an option? I have been looking for an actual BDCP application to verify if there is a "no pre service drug use" requirement as there is for NUPOC, but have not been able to find one.

From the very un-detailed information that i have been able to find, the program is does NOT(?please confirm) have a pre-service drug disclosure.

edit: Is there a path from BDCP into the nuclear community?

[co60slr]

Co60Slr,

I'm a double major in physics and nuclear engineering with a 3.8 GPA in 52 credits.

Ok.  Keep up the GPA. 

You're not getting this.   Are there enlisted/officers on active duty who were once in your shoes?  Most likely.  How did they do it?  They talked about their specific situation with Recruiters who provided all the contemporary advice/process that was required.   One-on-one, closed door, lay it on the line sorta discussion.

Again, there is no one here that can give you a canned answer to a "case by case" question.   Will you get a waiver based on the addition information you provided?  Seriously...you cannot get an accurate answer from anyone in a public, anonymous Internet forum.  The process doesn't involve a logic "if than" chart that you seem to be looking for.   The final barrier will likely be an interview with a senior officer who's going to ask you some pretty pointed questions.  You'd be wise to not bullshit him.  Body language accounts for 70% of all communication and some of us are pretty damn good at it.  Honest.  Serious.   

The military and commercial nuclear communities are built on Integrity.  This isn't some kind of flag-waving, soap box, "higher than thou" discussion...it's honestly the way it is.   What you are fighting for is for the government to find you worthy of a Security Clearance.   Your GPA, SAT, high school GPA, classes, etc are what gets you into a professional job (enlisted, officer, commercial nuclear, etc).   However, if you can't get access through the front door, there's no sense in anyone looking at your GPA...right?  Have people lied before?  You bet.  Roll the dice and do what you need to do.  I'm telling you again that if a security investigator talked to someone you've pissed off and that person says "Yeah, we saw him doing XXX drug and you can talk to person A, B, and C to confirm this"....you're done.  Game over.

When you post in a nuclear forum with thousands of readers, you're pretty much standing up in an auditorium with a microphone and saying, "Hey Nuclear Professionals, I did drugs but should I lie about it in order to work at your plant?  C'mon guys, how can I circumvent the process"

What do you want us to tell you?

I hate these threads.  This forum is not here for people to game the system and skirt the rules.  When people do, they get caught.  Check out Joel Kennedy's Submarine Bubblehead Blog:  The Stupid Shall Be Punished.   Otherwise, good luck.  Given your GPA, you should have a nice future ahead...especially if you get your GPA up to a 3.9. 

[Marlin]

Ok.  Keep up the GPA. 

You're not getting this.   Are there enlisted/officers on active duty who were once in your shoes?  Most likely.  How did they do it?  They talked about their specific situation with Recruiters who provided all the contemporary advice/process that was required.   One-on-one, closed door, lay it on the line sorta discussion.

Again, there is no one here that can give you a canned answer to a "case by case" question.   Will you get a waiver based on the addition information you provided?  Seriously...you cannot get an accurate answer from anyone in a public, anonymous Internet forum.  The process doesn't involve a logic "if than" chart that you seem to be looking for.   The final barrier will likely be an interview with a senior officer who's going to ask you some pretty pointed questions.  You'd be wise to not bullshit him.  Body language accounts for 70% of all communication and some of us are pretty damn good at it.  Honest.  Serious.   

The military and commercial nuclear communities are built on Integrity.  This isn't some kind of flag-waving, soap box, "higher than thou" discussion...it's honestly the way it is.   What you are fighting for is for the government to find you worthy of a Security Clearance.   Your GPA, SAT, high school GPA, classes, etc are what gets you into a professional job (enlisted, officer, commercial nuclear, etc).   However, if you can't get access through the front door, there's no sense in anyone looking at your GPA...right?  Have people lied before?  You bet.  Roll the dice and do what you need to do.  I'm telling you again that if a security investigator talked to someone you've pissed off and that person says "Yeah, we saw him doing XXX drug and you can talk to person A, B, and C to confirm this"....you're done.  Game over.

When you post in a nuclear forum with thousands of readers, you're pretty much standing up in an auditorium with a microphone and saying, "Hey Nuclear Professionals, I did drugs but should I lie about it in order to work at your plant?  C'mon guys, how can I circumvent the process"

What do you want us to tell you?

I hate these threads.  This forum is not here for people to game the system and skirt the rules.  When people do, they get caught.  Check out Joel Kennedy's Submarine Bubblehead Blog:  The Stupid Shall Be Punished.   Otherwise, good luck.  Given your GPA, you should have a nice future ahead...especially if you get your GPA up to a 3.9. 

Good advice.

r_o_b... before you make a bad decision, they are likely to develop secondary contacts to interview in the process, meaning people you did not put on your list. Best to deal with this up front which is what everyone here is telling you.

   good luck

[sovbob]

I guess I just want to know what my chances are and that if I have an opportunity to vocalize my own perspective. No matter what you all preach, rather, what anyone preaches, they have done something that they regret. I regret this and there is damn little else which I do.

r_o_b,

The navy is much more forgiving of "experimental use of marijuana" than any other drug / alcohol abuse.  You will fill out a personal statement about your drug abuse, which will accompany your application package.  This is not only expected, it is REQUIRED that you submit a statement.  You wanted to know if you would be able to provide your own perspective?  This is it.

In particular, take a look at COMNAVCRUITCOMINST 1131.2D (Officer Recruiting Manual) Chapter 2, section 020903
http://www.cnrc.navy.mil/publications/Directives/1131%202D_CHAPTER%202_CH3.pdf

The Nuclear Propulsion Program Pre-Service Drug Abuse Statement NAVCRUIT 1131/8 will be used to document the statements made by applicants for nuclear programs regarding drug use. This form will be submitted with the application kit to NAVCRUITCOM. NAVCRUITCOM will review all pre-service drug abuse statements and grant waivers, if appropriate (with PERS-42 concurrence). Applicants for these programs may be granted a pre-service drug abuse waiver by NAVCRUITCOM (with PERS-42 concurrence) for experimental use of marijuana only.

As for how likely your waiver is to be approved, I couldn't possibly answer that.  It's determined on a case-by-case basis.  But given everything else, I'd say you have a decent shot at it.

[RAD-GHOST]

Just tell them you never Inhaled......

As strange as this sounds how do you know you smoked pot?  Did you have your portable gas chromatograph with you?  Did someone do a confirmatory chemical test?  Oh, someone told you it was pot, SO IT WAS!  Even if there is no doubt in your mind....PROVE IT!  The bottom line is pretty simple, if your going to confirm the prior use of hemp to your recruiter, provide verifieable proof that, that statement is true!

I'm betting you can't.....RG!   

[tselby]

R_O_B

Don't be disheartened either, I am sure there are a few nukes in this world, that have inhaled a little of the whacky weed.

The real question is of integrity, be honest!! be persistent,, and good luck in your endeavors, I am sure you will find success in whatever it is you choose.

[HydroDave63]

Just tell them you never Inhaled......

As strange as this sounds how do you know you smoked pot?  Did you have your portable gas chromatograph with you?  Did someone do a confirmatory chemical test?  Oh, someone told you it was pot, SO IT WAS!  Even if there is no doubt in your mind....PROVE IT!  The bottom line is pretty simple, if your going to confirm the prior use of hemp to your recruiter, provide verifieable proof that, that statement is true!

I'm betting you can't.....RG!   

That logic is SO backwards, it must be French!

[IRLFAN]

Just tell them you never Inhaled......

As strange as this sounds how do you know you smoked pot?  Did you have your portable gas chromatograph with you?  Did someone do a confirmatory chemical test?  Oh, someone told you it was pot, SO IT WAS!  Even if there is no doubt in your mind....PROVE IT!  The bottom line is pretty simple, if your going to confirm the prior use of hemp to your recruiter, provide verifieable proof that, that statement is true!

I'm betting you can't.....RG!   

This is either one of the stupidest pieces of advice I've ever heard, or poor sarcasm.  Rad Ghost, which is it?

[Rock Chalk Jayhawk]

Just tell them you never Inhaled......

As strange as this sounds how do you know you smoked pot?  Did you have your portable gas chromatograph with you?  Did someone do a confirmatory chemical test?  Oh, someone told you it was pot, SO IT WAS!  Even if there is no doubt in your mind....PROVE IT!  The bottom line is pretty simple, if your going to confirm the prior use of hemp to your recruiter, provide verifieable proof that, that statement is true!

I'm betting you can't.....RG!

Must be the Rad Ghost of Johnny Cochran...   

[r_o_b]

Co60Slr and sovbob,
I wanted to thank the two of you personally for your input, but most of all for putting that $%##@$%^ voice in the back of my head to rest. I'm going to disclose.


For everyone else, thank you all the same, I appreciate it.


modified by GC to remove profanity

[RAD-GHOST]

Dave, I prefer Froggish over French!

Jayhawk, That's COCK.

Somebody has to get a grip with todays post 9/11 world!  Their's millions of people who want to make a big something out of a little nothing!  Actually their's a couple of them on this site!  The kid shows some great character by asking such advice, but I believe he already had his mind made up on the situation.  The fact that there's some form of paperwork associated with the answer fortifies my perspective of future scrutiney.  Will that disclosure be STRIKE 1!  If it is, then perception should not be the prime factor for that decision!  If you disagree with me, then you also disagree with the basis of our legal system. 

Then again, I don't know if that necessarily applies to squid logic?

Happy Holidays..............RG!

[Gamecock]

Dave, I prefer Froggish over French!

Jayhawk, That's COCK.

Somebody has to get a grip with todays post 9/11 world!  Their's millions of people who want to make a big something out of a little nothing!  Actually their's a couple of them on this site!  The kid shows some great character by asking such advice, but I believe he already had his mind made up on the situation.  The fact that there's some form of paperwork associated with the answer fortifies my perspective of future scrutiney.  Will that disclosure be STRIKE 1!  If it is, then perception should not be the prime factor for that decision!  If you disagree with me, then you also disagree with the basis of our legal system. 

Then again, I don't know if that necessarily applies to squid logic?

Happy Holidays..............RG!

The kid dosn't show great character by asking for advice here.  If he had great character, he would have (1.) never smoked weed in the first place, or (2. ) not needed to be convinced that he needs to disclose his recreational drug use.

I'm prettty sure I've read enough on here to know that folks applying for civilian nuke jobs also have to disclose past drug use.  So, its not just the navy.

[spekkio]

Experimental use of marijuana is waiverable. However, the fact that you are torn regarding the right answer in this case is what is most disturbing.

Even if marijuana were automatically disqualifying, you have to live with the consequences of your actions. It doesn't mean you can't be successful, it just means that you closed a door on yourself for past indiscretions.

[RAD-GHOST]

Experimental use of marijuana is waiverable. However, the fact that you are torn regarding the right answer in this case is what is most disturbing.

I have to agree with that one...100%!  My second question would be, "Who's Mentoring the Kid"?  He bangs away on an internet website asking for opinions of people he doesn't know and that influences his decision....BIG WOW!  The best advice I could give to this kid is go talk to the adults in your life, not to those so called friends!

Gamecock, If you read it here, nobody can argue with that!    

That wasn't an argument and the squid comment wasn't an identifier to a section of the Armed Forces!

RG