Navy application/MEPS/Security Clearance

[GNowakowski]

Good idea, mine was short, sweet, and to the point. I didn't offer any extra information or opinions/apologies/ anything. It was a statement of what happened and what happened after, won't pee a sax again. In and out..... I wouldn't write anything that could lead to more questions or reasons to investigate.

GNowakowski - Keep them short and sweet.  Elegant prose is not needed for a short "This happened in my past.  I learned from it, and have not done it since." letter.  My waiver was 1 written page long, about 3 paragraphs 3 sentences each.

My nuke waivers were academic, but I did the "Yes, I did something dumb, here's what I learned." thing and they loved it.

Oh, and mine were pretty short. One was even on just one of those pages they give you. I figure they have enough crap to read and if you can tell your story without dragging it out, they'll appreciate it. However, this is all just speculation.

Thank you all for your responses - you each give great advice.  It's also very easy to follow with all of you in agreement. 
I'll make sure to keep mine short and sweet.  I did not receive a paper to write mine on; I'm assuming this is not a big deal.  I'll just write my finished draft on regular paper.  If they need it moved to there sheet, it will already be prepared.

Once again, thanks for all of the information. I'm on it!

-Glen

[HydroDave63]

BRILLIANT!Excellent application of the word entropy and great point. Have you considered CNO? SECNAV?

Possibly in a President Ron Paul administration, sure!

[navynukedoc]

Does BMI apply to the CNO or SECNAV?!?!?!?

I'm just asking,....

CNO - of course!  SECNAV - Do you even need a highschool diploma to hold that office?? 

[Cycoticpenguin]

guys, enough.

[MacGyver]

I would appreciate it if you would read my posts before making bold assumptions about me.

I hate to do this.  I did this to Co60 as well when I spotted inconsistence's.  But, if you will please tell me how you can say this above and have said this below.

http://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/topic,10003.msg54170.html#msg54170

My father is a Colonel. Im well aware of what is required, and I can tell what the officers around here are doing. It doesnt take an admiral to figure out when an officer needs a haircut.

I was not intending to make anything of this. Im attributing the "lack of support" to the recent holiday season. My father was an e9 in the air force so he knows what he's speaking of... for the air force. He wasnt stuck on a ship with 6000 people for 6 months at a time. Im not trying to get a bad rep before I even step foot on the ship.

I will call the quarter deck as gamecock mentioned. thanks for the help

He was an E-9 or a Colonel depending on these two posts.  Which is it?

Just asking, so please set me straight.  I would appreciate it.

[MacGyver]

Well, I'm sorry to hear that.  I will give you a good example of how I trianed the other recruiters in my station.  You give the applicant all the options and scenarios, tell them what will happen if we go this route and what will happen if we go that route.  You let them choose which path they want to take.  Most candidates will take the path of least resistance.  Here is the thing a good recruiter will do, if someone has an issue that is ongoing or re-occuring, you do the paperwork..End of story.  If I had a kid that took ADHD meds for 2 years then stopped taking them becasue his parents wised up and realized the doctor was taking their money, I tell the kid NEVER EVER mention this to anyone again.  If they bring it up in bootcamp, I get a phone call about it, and have to tell my side of the story.  It happened to me twice.  I told the kid to lie one of the two times, the other time I didn't know anyting about it.  The time I told the kid to lie, he hated bootcamp and knew he would, and did, get kicked out and sent home if he told the truth.  I got some flak about it, but nothing more since my command knew a little about what was going on, with the kid not really wanting to go in the first place.  See something the public doesn't understand about the whole process, is that recruiting is a business.  We spend lots and lots of money on getting these kids into the navy.  Meps visits, hotels, government vehicles driving them back and forth form home and to the office, so on and so forth.  You get my drift.  Then a kid decides, I changed my mind, and the government is out a some money, and the recruiter is out some time.  As a recruiter, you have to make the best choices possible.  If I had a kid that didn't want to go, I cut him out quick.  I didn't want to waist my time trying to convince him of something he would regret and hate me for later.  I just cut him, and moved on.  That is why I was a GOOD recruiter.  I knew when to cut my losses and move on.   I helped the kids that wanted to be helped.  See another thing you don't understand is that the Navy rejects people left and right.  I realize you and some others get screwed over by the process, and I was one of those early on in my Navy time, part of the reason I got out.  But I got to see the other side of the fence.  There are kids out there that desperately need the military.  Their lives are in bad shape, for vairous reasons.  maybe they have a bad home life, maybe they are hanging around the wrong people and have made some bad choices.  So on and so forth.  I can tell you, I wish I could have told the kids with records to lie, but that one will always come to light.  I can't tell you how many kids I had that had a juvey record, and couldn't get in.  I'm not talking about major stuff, I'm talking getting caught smoking weed, or a minor in possesion, or just really small stuff.  Not stealing or anything like that.  I tried to not pot people into the Navy I wouldn't want to have to work with one day.  That is how I justified what I did.  It might not be right, but tell that to the guy out on the boat who is working 6 hours on and 6 hours off due to the lack of personnel in his department.  He needs recruiters to push people through, and he doesn't give a dang about what it takes.  I've been that guy, believe me I hated life.  All that said, I just try my best to shed some light on the process and what to expect.  I don't regret one bit of my Navy experience.  Some great times, some really, really bad times.

This is the problem with setting the bar low.  That is now the "expectation".  How could you have been shocked that a liar would be a liar?!?!

Let me say this to you and your ilk.  The word "Rationalize" is really "Rational Lies"!  Even though the bible says "All men [are] liars" - Psalms 116:11 it doesn't rationalize an excuse anywhere therein to continue in those ways.

"I weep for the future" - the Chez Quis maitre-d' in Ferris Bueller's Day Off.

[drayer54]

I think this is one of the finer Nukeworker investigative reports I have seen yet,   to you sir!
However, we are all eager to hear the explanation for this one. Isn't this the same thread that harped on a   not so long ago?
Birth Certificate and family photo to come? CM's a good guy, I'm sure there is a reason (step dad?).....

[navynukedoc]

However, we are all eager to here the explanation for this one.

here, heer, hear


Survey says.............    X

[MacGyver]

I think this is one of the finer Nukeworker investigative reports I have seen yet,  to you sir!
However, we are all eager to hear the explanation for this one. Isn't this the same thread that harped on a  not so long ago?

Birth Certificate and family photo to come? CM's a good guy, I'm sure there is a reason (step dad?).....

The first quote is from Feb 26 2007 and the second post is less than a year later on Jan 10 2008.  I doubt it was as simple as you state.  But, I too wish to hear the explanation of his discongruent posts.

I'm sure there is a perfectly good and rationalized answer.  Though I doubt it will include an explanation of why he would slap a poster around for not understanding his post meaning.  Considering all the above of course.

[Cycoticpenguin]

I think this is one of the finer Nukeworker investigative reports I have seen yet,   to you sir!
However, we are all eager to hear the explanation for this one. Isn't this the same thread that harped on a   not so long ago?
Birth Certificate and family photo to come? CM's a good guy, I'm sure there is a reason (step dad?).....

Ding ding ding we have a winner..... biological father was a lt. colone(i roundee up, sorry)l."Step dad" (my dad really) retired as an chief master seargent. Want to see why my last name is not the same as the rest of my family's? You dig up that research macgyver?

For the purposes of online community of which I was pissed off at the time, there's no reason to air dry my dirty laundry. Thanks guys,


But since you asked, here goes.

My mother has three children. My sister is 31, my brother is 17. My biological father left my mother when I was young. My mother got remarried to my" step dad" who then became my father. My biological father would never give up custody on me. I am the only person in my entire family with my own last name. Imagine how I feel when they ask for the" bell family".
On a random note, soon as I get word that it wont mess with my clearance, I will be getting my name changed.



Thanks macgyver. I really enjoy discussing this. Want to see my photos/documents? Another random fact. When I got married I made my wife keep her last name because I didn't want my kids to have that last name.

[HydroDave63]

Another random fact.

Personally I'm curious why CM digs big grumpy khakis with prominent cigars. But then again I'm just nosy like that 

[Cycoticpenguin]

Personally I'm curious why CM digs big grumpy khakis with prominent cigars. But then again I'm just nosy like that 

It maaaaakkkkkeeeessss mmmeeeee fffeeeelllll gooooooodddddd man.



Mac- I will concede that I will use experiences withh both as I see fit. Shady? Maybe a little. Dishonest? No.

[navynukedoc]

Just for CM.



Weird friends = Charlie Murphy  

[fuelrod101]

Hey everyone.  I just wanted to say this thread has been very helpful to me.  I was already having serious misgivings when my recruiter told me to lie about seeing a shrink when my parents were getting a divorce which is why I came here to seek unbiased advice.  If it wasn't from some of the posts on this tread I might have lied (probably wouldn't have, but it could have happened) and I would have to start my service to my country with a cloud hanging over my head.  I got my doc to formally take me off my meds which I stopped taking 4 years ago.  He was surprised the recruiter would even ask this because he told me he gets approached by the military for stuff like this all the time.  They are limited by what they can ask despite the fact that you give them access to your medical records.  They can only ask if the person in question would be unfit to serve under duress or properly handle classified information.  Furthermore, on the SF-86 form they specifically state "Have you ever seen a psychologist or psychiatrist for any reason OTHER than family, spousal related issues that don't involve violence".  In other words, I do not even need to disclose this on the SF-86 and if they probe it, it is likely to be no problem.  So basically, my recruiter was trying to get me in as an officer while advocating that I lie to get in just so he wouldn't have to fill out some additional paper work.  I am thankful to everyone here for their feedback on this issue and look forward to MEPS next week!  

[Styrofoam]

Hey everyone.  I just wanted to say this thread has been very helpful to me...

I'm so glad to hear that it's working out for you and even more glad that you stopped by to let us know.

[navynukedoc]

Anchors away little brother!

Do us all proud!

[MacGyver]

It maaaaakkkkkeeeessss mmmeeeee fffeeeelllll gooooooodddddd man.


Mac- I will concede that I will use experiences withh both as I see fit. Shady? Maybe a little. Dishonest? No.

No malice was meant or should have been considered by my posts.  I was not trying to impute or cause shame by my post.

But, you must concede that its hard to follow and understand your posts by reviewing your posts like you stated in this quote:

I would appreciate it if you would read my posts before making bold assumptions about me.

By not cutting and pasting a "quote box" around another persons post you looked like you took it on as your own post.  And, add to the fact this little issue we have discussed and you get the picture that it may not have been his fault.

"Everybody lies" -> House


I am willing to concede everyone will lie at some point. As he stated, if you think you havent lied, you are most likely lying to yourself. However, there's the nature and intent behind the lie....

We have all provided our lip service and stood on our soap boxes, it's time to move on




Andrew -> No one will die if so and so lies on their entrance paper work. The point is, its not up to the recruiters to pick and choose which rules to follow, even if they do, which is erroneous.

Though most of us saw it right away (re: not using a quote box).  We and you should cut some of our new members some slack for not seeing it.  I too am new(er) and require some tuning up from time to time due to my lack of forum interactions.  But, you could have been a little clearer in your repoduction of another person's words (i.e. quotes).

Just to summarize, you could have been a little better in that "quote" by posting it as a quote.  It might have prevented this whole ordeal.

Fuelrod101 ... Our best.  Just always tell the truth.  Let the cards fall where they may.

Mac

[MacGyver]

To the OP, when all is said and done and you get in, congrats.  This will be my last post on this topic since every time I try and give my 2 cents it seems to be met with, well, lets call it discouragement by others.  I will say this, regardless of what I did or what others do in the tour as a recruiter I will say this for them, without the decision's they make (as a whole) there would not be able bodies to give those out on patrols the much needed breaks in tour.  With that said, basing on others logic, if all recruiters went by the recruitman, tours of duty would be longer, more people would be getting out at the end of their first tour, and the requirements (asvab and so forth) would have to be lowered just like in the army for the more abled bodies to get in.  Think about that the next time you want to get on your soap box and tell a recruiter (past or present) how to do their jobs the "right" way.

We don't need your kind of help.  So the next time you want to post ...

[Styrofoam]

Hey everyone.  I just wanted to say this thread has been very helpful to me.  I was already having serious misgivings when my recruiter told me to lie about seeing a shrink when my parents were getting a divorce which is why I came here to seek unbiased advice.  If it wasn't from some of the posts on this tread I might have lied (probably wouldn't have, but it could have happened) and I would have to start my service to my country with a cloud hanging over my head.  I got my doc to formally take me off my meds which I stopped taking 4 years ago.  He was surprised the recruiter would even ask this because he told me he gets approached by the military for stuff like this all the time.  They are limited by what they can ask despite the fact that you give them access to your medical records.  They can only ask if the person in question would be unfit to serve under duress or properly handle classified information.  Furthermore, on the SF-86 form they specifically state "Have you ever seen a psychologist or psychiatrist for any reason OTHER than family, spousal related issues that don't involve violence".  In other words, I do not even need to disclose this on the SF-86 and if they probe it, it is likely to be no problem.  So basically, my recruiter was trying to get me in as an officer while advocating that I lie to get in just so he wouldn't have to fill out some additional paper work.  I am thankful to everyone here for their feedback on this issue and look forward to MEPS next week!  

I like to think that when they do that, it's just a test. Looks like you passed. Excellent!
So what's the next step for you?

[Cycoticpenguin]

No malice was meant or should have been considered by my posts.  I was not trying to impute or cause shame by my post.

Mac

Who cares man. Its complete crap you went and researched my old posts for some kind of disparity to post and try to embarass me.  I wish I had all this free time to research members 2-3 year old posts....

so, no malice meant? I dont buy it, it was intentional and deliberate form to call me out. I explained myself, and Im not going to do it again.



I'll just pretend this thread doesnt exist after this point. if you wish further "conversation" send me a pm next time instead of being inspector gadget.


/rant.



That said, lets get this back on topic, sorry.

[andrewnavy]

Charlie Murphy:

I am glad you were not on a sub, I don't think you would have made it with the thin skin.  Dude, don't get all butt hurt over someones post.  He probably meant nothing by it other than to clear it up for himself.  You seem like a good enough guy but you seem like you could use a relaxing vacation.  I am sorry about your family issues, that is a tough one for a little one to deal with.  Good luck to you.

Andrewnavy

[Marlin]

Who cares man. Its complete crap you went and researched my old posts for some kind of disparity to post and try to embarass me.  I wish I had all this free time to research members 2-3 year old posts....

Be careful not to piss off Marrsim then he is an Archivist Flame Warrior extraordinaire.

http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/archivist.htm

[MacGyver]

Dude, you've made about 550 posts in the last four months of your ~66 months and 950 posts as a registered user here,...

You have the time,....

This bit of research took 93 seconds to deliver,...

The juxtaposition used by MacGyver may have been off base but try to keep your rebuttal focused on the abused facts not the science of research,....

It takes one to know one and I may not be able to define one but I know one when I see one,...

Eaaaaasssssssy there cowboy Marssim ... 

Good thing you said "may" ...    I find my juxtaposition's to be very "parallel" 

Charlie Murphy, buddy pal comrade, I'm a research machine.  Everything is relevant.  And, I do mean everything.  I find my best information on a poster by reviewing their first hundred posts.  So, yes I research everyone.  And, when I witnessed you slap another poster for associating you with someone else's post (by accident).  To which it appears you have some culpability in said mistake.  I made my observation.

As for not forgiving me.  That's fine.  I on the other hand do not hold a grudge.  I guess it is from years of abuse on a submarine.  That is to say, you learn to roll with it.

I hope no one challenges you in your current training cycle.  It could be bad when you develop a reputation for being hot headed and resentful early on.  It usually follows you around forever.

To be clear, I do not have a problem with your explanation.

Peace
Mac

[Cycoticpenguin]

Who said anything about holding a grudge?

[JustinHEMI05]

I find my best information on a poster by reviewing their first hundred posts. 

Great idea! I had forgotten how awesome my first few hundred posts were. Of course, that goes without saying.

Justin