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12 hour schedule or 8 hour schedule

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Author Topic: Turkey Point Operations shift schedule 8hrs. vs. 12 hrs.  (Read 15076 times)

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Offline NukeOps

This post was created to start a discussion on whether or not it would be beneficial for the operations department to go on a 12 hour shift vice the 8 hours we work now. Another reason for this post is to discuss the different schedules available if it were decided that 12 hours is the better schedule to go with.

Offline biloxoi blues

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Re: Turkey Point Operations shift schedule 8hrs. vs. 12 hrs.
« Reply #1 on: Apr 09, 2011, 10:05 »
It all depends on seniority and what you want.  The ops here is on a rotating shift (12 hours) with some full time days people.  The RP's here are on full time days or special crew.  The people on special crew are on backshift even though there are a few that hold day times slots ( one tech has held a dayshift slot for over two years and has not seen dayshift unlesss its training). The dayshift people have weekends off unless they volunteer for ot on weekends, while the special crew members are schedule to work at least one night of the weekend and sometimes are schedule to work both weekend nights (happen to one person for at least 4 straight months).  With the high price of fuel it would be cheaper on a rotating shift, cause of less days travel to and from work.  Also you have built in OT with 12 hours shifts.  Some RP techs are trying to become OPS just so they can get on the rotating shift.
« Last Edit: Apr 09, 2011, 10:14 by biloxoi blues »

Offline NukeOps

Re: Turkey Point Operations shift schedule 8hrs. vs. 12 hrs.
« Reply #2 on: Apr 09, 2011, 08:14 »
Pros for 12 hour shift:
-   Built in overtime.
-   Twice as many days off compared to 8 hour shift
        o       Work half the month vs ¾ a month
        o       17 days off in a five week rotation vs. 9.5 days off.
        o       177 days off a year vs. 99 days (77 day difference)
        o       Less travel time per year = less gass money to work.
        o       More time with the family.

-   Gives us a 12 hour shift for outages
        o       This gives more money for outages
        o       Your 5th day worked is double OT on a three day week
        o       Your 6th day worked is double OT on a four day week.

-   More weekends off per month
-   More time with family, more time to have a life.
-   With the built in overtime and double time days during the outage we are talking about making thousands of dollars more per year in income while working roughly 77 days less that same year.

-   Fatigue rule has perks with 12 hour shifts, so minimum staffing and massive forcing for overtime would be prevented via fatigue rule.

Pros for 8 hour shift:
-   Have a few hours every work day for errands and/or rest.

Cons for 12 hour shift:
-   More work per day.

Cons for 8 hours shift:
-   With the schedule we have now in a 23 day work period we only have 3.5 days off.
         o       After requal and after that weekend, we work 6 days then have 2 off work 7 peaks and have 1.5 off and then work 7 mids. In that 23 day period only 3.5 are days off.

-   No double time days during outages
-   A lot less money per year.
-   A lot less days off to be with family or to have a life outside of work.
-   More travel time to work = more gas money and more potential to be in traffic accident.

Concerns with moving to 12 hour schedule are:
-   A sick day is 8 hours so if you call in sick you have 1.5 days written down. Management sits you down if you have 5 days of sick time in a rolling year 7 days is a write up of some sort.
-   If staffing levels get low being forced on your days off is detrimental to living conditions. Fatigue rule prevents this dilemma but the rules need to be stated to understand better, I will research this and post the 12 hour shift rules as it pertains to the Fatigue rule.
-   Sending people home after their straight time is up.

Offline NukeOps

Re: Turkey Point Operations shift schedule 8hrs. vs. 12 hrs.
« Reply #3 on: Apr 09, 2011, 08:23 »
The biggest difference is that there is a lot more money made on 12hr shifts while also having a lot more days off a year.

Days off per year: ~177days vs. ~99days

More money per year:  Many double OT days in outage and more built in overtime on regular schdule. vs. no double OT days in outage and no built in overtime on 8 hour shifts.

Offline NukeOps

Re: Turkey Point Operations shift schedule 8hrs. vs. 12 hrs.
« Reply #4 on: Apr 09, 2011, 08:46 »
Fatigue rules for 12 hour shifts:

- Can only work up to 16 hours in a 24 hour period
   or up to 72 hours in a 7 day period.
   or up to 26 hours in a 48 hour period.

- Must have average minimum days off of 2.5 days per week.
  and have at least 1 day off in a 9 day period.

- Must have at least 3 days off in each non-overlapping 15 day block.
« Last Edit: Apr 09, 2011, 08:48 by NukeOps »

Offline biloxoi blues

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Re: Turkey Point Operations shift schedule 8hrs. vs. 12 hrs.
« Reply #5 on: Apr 09, 2011, 09:40 »
I guess that ends this discussion

Offline NukeOps

Re: Turkey Point Operations shift schedule 8hrs. vs. 12 hrs.
« Reply #6 on: Apr 09, 2011, 10:17 »
lol, Yea this post is mainly to spell out what the pros and cons are so that we can make a well informed decision, we have approximately 100 operators and we need 75% of them to vote yes for 12's if we want to start working the schedule, some people don't like change or don't like the history they had with the last 12 hour schedule. Back then we had very low staff and people were working their balls off, it sounds like it was a little inhumane, apparently the NRC was on the verge of shutting down the plant, but now things are different since now we have about 4 to five times the number of operators we had then. I am soon going to invite my fellow operators to visit this forum to voice their opinions on this matter and then take a poll to see if it is worth while to persue changing the schedule and putting in a vote. This is the first step.
« Last Edit: Apr 09, 2011, 10:22 by NukeOps »

Offline biloxoi blues

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Re: Turkey Point Operations shift schedule 8hrs. vs. 12 hrs.
« Reply #7 on: Apr 10, 2011, 12:43 »
Just let them ask their union brothers in Ops at PSL.  Still havent figure why it takes 75 percent of them to change things.  That doesnt make sense, but that is what they needed at PSL and it did get passed.  Seems like it would be 51 percent to change things or keep them the same.
« Last Edit: Sep 30, 2014, 09:50 by biloxoi blues »

Offline NukeOps

Re: Turkey Point Operations shift schedule 8hrs. vs. 12 hrs.
« Reply #8 on: Apr 11, 2011, 07:48 »
Yup, we sent an email to our fellow union brothers there at PSL and the response was that they like 12's better but they agreed to not have turnover which is an issue. They only have 15 minutes of turnover which they are trying to change, and I think they are having another issue they want changed but I can't recall what it was, I am going to have to look in my email see if I still have it, I'll get back with that information.

Offline a|F

Re: Turkey Point Operations shift schedule 8hrs. vs. 12 hrs.
« Reply #9 on: Apr 11, 2011, 08:17 »
Just let them ask their union brothers in Ops at PSL.  Still haven't figure why it takes 75 percent of them to change things.  That doesn't make since, but that is what they needed at PSL and it did get passed.  Seems like it would be 51 percent to change things or keep them the same.

I believe this is a perfect place to have the super-majority requirement - ergo 2/3 or 3/4 must ratify the proposal.  I'll put it in perspective based solely on my plant.

We're on a hybrid schedule - 6 crews working 8's normally with 12's on the weekend (days and nights cover).  The vote for 12's comes up every year, with almost ever NLO/EO voting for it.  The sticking point is with the NSO/RO's.  Most don't want to sit in the control room for 12 hours... and who are the fatigue rules really concerned about?  Bingo!

So to me, the super-majority requirement is a great thing.  Unfortunately as a part of management, we don't get a choice- whatever the union wants, they get and we support (...can of worms there...), but most SRO's desire 12's as well.

I would recommend putting it up for a vote.  It will likely take years to pass, however, you will see the percentages change yearly until you meet the 3/4 requirement.  BTW - we DO have 2x OT during outage.  Not sure how you get around that...?  Creative scheduling?

Offline NukeOps

Re: Turkey Point Operations shift schedule 8hrs. vs. 12 hrs.
« Reply #10 on: Apr 11, 2011, 09:22 »
Tell me about it. We have 8 + 4 schedule so if we work five days that is five 8 hour shifts plus 20 hours of time and a half. If we work our first rest day it is 12 hours of time and a half. Fatigue rule only allows for one 6th day every other week, avg of 2.5 days off a week. So double OT is bye bye.  >:( :'(

Yea you know that does got to get boring sitting in a room for 12 hours when going to work. Question though, are RO's allowed to leave the control room and walk around the plant? I know they have bathroom and smoke breaks, I'll have to ask about that here. SRO's here are dying to go on 12's, but that's only comming from the SROs I've talked to at this point (quite a few though).

Here is a schedule from a few that I have that I am going to propose:
          S S M T W T F
Week1       D D        D  
Week2 D  D       D  D
Week3       M M       M
Week4 M M       M M
Week5       R  R R  R R

 D=days M=mids R=requal

What I like about it is that it is very consistent, we don't work more then two or three days in a row and having at least 2 or 3 days off in between scheduled work days. 2 days off after working 2 and 3 days off after working 3. It is an amazing potential to me and hope to realize it one day.
« Last Edit: Apr 11, 2011, 09:27 by NukeOps »

Offline Bleyse

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Re: Turkey Point Operations shift schedule 8hrs. vs. 12 hrs.
« Reply #11 on: Apr 11, 2011, 11:25 »
Pardon me for butting in, but the only perk associated with rotating shift work (IMHO) is the long break you get from work every cycle.  Consider this schedule:

         S S M T W T F
Week1       D D D        
Week2                  M
Week3 M M         D D
Week4 D D    R  R R R
Week5      M M M M

This schedule assumes a pay period of Monday through Sunday and a requal week that is 40 hours (10 hours per day).  Notice the time off built in to this schedule between week 1 and 2 (leave work on Wed evening and not have to come back until the following Fri night).  This is very convenient for vacation planning, you can take two full weeks off by using only 36 hours of vacation time on either end of the 8 day break.

Of course if your plant uses a different pay period or has a five day requirement for requal this wouldn't work.  But it is an alternative to consider.

« Last Edit: Apr 11, 2011, 11:27 by Bleyse »

Offline NukeOps

Re: Turkey Point Operations shift schedule 8hrs. vs. 12 hrs.
« Reply #12 on: Apr 12, 2011, 10:51 »
Holy momma, at first glance that looks like the best schedule in existence. I think I found a new favorite, thanks a million Bleyse.

Fermi2

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Re: Turkey Point Operations shift schedule 8hrs. vs. 12 hrs.
« Reply #13 on: Apr 13, 2011, 04:13 »
Fatigue rules for 12 hour shifts:

- Can only work up to 16 hours in a 24 hour period
   or up to 72 hours in a 7 day period.
   or up to 26 hours in a 48 hour period.

- Must have average minimum days off of 2.5 days per week.
  and have at least 1 day off in a 9 day period.

- Must have at least 3 days off in each non-overlapping 15 day block.


34 Hours in a Rolling 9 day period off. Not one day.

2.5 Average days off in a rolling 15 day block. Reset at the beginning of a cycle. Your utility defines a cycle but it's usually training to training.

Offline NukeOps

Re: Turkey Point Operations shift schedule 8hrs. vs. 12 hrs.
« Reply #14 on: Apr 13, 2011, 07:53 »
thanks I got that info off an NRC power point, it might have been old.

Offline jams723

Re: Turkey Point Operations shift schedule 8hrs. vs. 12 hrs.
« Reply #15 on: Apr 23, 2011, 04:59 »
We voted for a trial 12 hour schedule..... Then when the smoke cleared, there was no trial.. We were on 12 hour shifts period.  BTW management likes 12 hour shifts  for one reason it cuts down unplanned absences... Less people willing to call in knowing someone will be called in for a 12 hour day vice staying over 4 or coming in 4 hours early.

 


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