Could really use some help

[NukeWannabe]

Hey everyone,

I'm pretty much exhausted from researching my options and so I come here as a last ditch effort before I decide what to do. Just to give a little background: I've always been interested in the nuclear field and I always find myself reading articles about nuclear energy and what it means in the future. I suppose because it's so vital for our energy needs, I always thought it would be a good decision for me to get into this field and pursue it. And coupling that for my passion for the navy, it seems like a no-brainer that I would choose to be a nuke. Unfortunately, my chances are very slim.

To top it off, I'm not a citizen, I'm a permanent green card holder and I have no family in the states and I need to leave for boot camp now (not running from the cops or anything, just don't wanna waste any more time, I'm 21). However, this effectively puts to rest any chance of me getting a security clearance. I asked my recruiter and he suggested I could transfer to get into the field after getting my citizenship and well the chances of that happening are very unlikely too. So I researched the field some more and I was like what if I enlist and apply for the STA-21 program (seaman to admiral) and go to school and then serve with the navy - and apparently the chances of that too are very unlikely. Basically the recruiter told me that there is no "safe bet" in the navy.

Really, all of this seems so depressing to someone like me.

I suppose in the event that I don't get accepted, I could always leave the navy and go to school, get my nuke engineering degree and try to sign up again, but apparently then I could possibly be too old to join back. The age limit I believe is 29 for nuke? I'm not entirely sure.

Really my luck has been in the shi**er. I was always good at math and science and my highschool got totally screwed up because I had to endure hurricane katrina - where well to avoid the sob story - I pretty much could not recover and eventually had to get a GED. I did get into college and I do have some credits. But there is no denying my chances of getting into the field are really slim, that I really don't know what to do.

I'm willing to work hard and get whatever grades needed to at least have a shot at getting in. I truly want to be a part of this community and if anyone here could help someone like me out - man I will forever be in your debt.

I really have no bad past, no criminal history, no debt (besides student loans), I just really want a shot to get in. Can anyone help?

[HeavyD]

I do not like being a person who says "No" to people, but, according to the MILPESMAN (Military Personnel Manual), it doesn't look very good for you.

This link governs nuclear surface ships:

http://www.public.navy.mil/bupers-npc/reference/milpersman/1000/1300Assignment/Documents/1306-136.pdf

Item 1.a states "Non-US citizens shall not have access to naval nuclear propulsion information (NNPI) and nuclear plant spaces."
 
This link governs submarines:

http://www.public.navy.mil/bupers-npc/reference/milpersman/1000/1300Assignment/Documents/1306-402.pdf

Item 2.k states "Citizenship.  Only United States citizens are eligible for duty in the submarine force."

Now, having said this and added these links, I am NOT the definitive expert on these matters.  As a retired Nuke, my previous role was to find things for my sailors and help them with their problems.  The same thing applies to the Nuke field.  Gamecock is our resident expert and the moderator for this forum, I would expect to see him jump in here sometime soon.

Also, please keep this in mind.  Just because someone wants to be a Nuke doesn't necessarily mean they need to be a Nuke.  Many good, quality people who have succeeded in spite of circumstances have no business being Nukes.  Attitude, aptitude, demeanor, integrity, personality, etc.  I am making no judgments against you, having never met you.  I am merely offering you the statement that, unfortunately, the answer you find may be No.  Stay ready for that.

Best of luck.

[cheme09]

I've always been interested in the nuclear field and I always find myself reading articles about nuclear energy and what it means in the future. I suppose because it's so vital for our energy needs, I always thought it would be a good decision for me to get into this field and pursue it. And coupling that for my passion for the navy, it seems like a no-brainer that I would choose to be a nuke.

I think you already answered your own question in your post, you just overlooked the obvious.  To correct you previous statement,

I could always leave the navy and go to school, get my nuke engineering degree

...and then go into the commercial nuclear power industry or other nuclear industry.

Just because you like the navy and nuclear energy does not mean you have to do both simultaneously.  Why not have some fun/get trained in the navy and then have them pay for you to go to school (GI bill) for a nuke engineering degree? You can then work as a civilian in the nuclear industry.  There are even companies that employ nuke engineers that work directly with the navy for design, training and contruction and repair.

[HeavyD]

Cheme, if I read the OP's post correctly, the main issue isn't his/her desire.  The main hurdle, quite a large one actually, is the lack of US citizenship.

Yes, there are ratings in the Navy that will accept non-citizens.  The nuclear field is not one of them.  I am not even sure this is something a waiver would even be entertained for, much less approved.  However, again I am not the resident expert in that matter.  I am only offering what I have experienced over the last 20 years.

As far as how citizenship and it's effect on UA for a civilian site works, I am going to make an educated guess that the same rules would apply.  I haven't been on this side of the fence long enough to know definitively nor have I done the background research, yet. 

If an avenue opens for you to pursue what Cheme suggested, that would indeed be great.  Try and stay positive, be prepared if the answer comes back no.

[NukeWannabe]

Hey everyone,

Thank you for your replies! I have to apologize for my long OP, I guess I am pretty desperate for guidance.

As a retired Nuke, my previous role was to find things for my sailors and help them with their problems.  The same thing applies to the Nuke field.  Gamecock is our resident expert and the moderator for this forum, I would expect to see him jump in here sometime soon.

Also, please keep this in mind.  Just because someone wants to be a Nuke doesn't necessarily mean they need to be a Nuke.  Many good, quality people who have succeeded in spite of circumstances have no business being Nukes.  Attitude, aptitude, demeanor, integrity, personality, etc.  I am making no judgments against you, having never met you.  I am merely offering you the statement that, unfortunately, the answer you find may be No.  Stay ready for that.

Best of luck.

Hello Sir, thank you for taking your time. I appreciate the advice given here and I'm definitely keeping it in mind. Seems to be that getting denied is on the horizon for me and although it is hard to swallow, I've been told I could transfer, but again - no guarantee and I'm not holding on to it either. In the event that I do have to pick a different area to work in - is there any field in particular in the navy that I could perhaps maybe impress in and it could look good on my resume for maybe an ops job for a commercial nuclear (in the event my navy ambition goes to hell)? I'm looking at maybe AD or EN as an alternative and after checking out a recent CREO list, seems like they are both in the 1s and 2s so perhaps I could have a greater chance of getting noticed? Really, I kinda wish I knew how competitive this is.

Just because you like the navy and nuclear energy does not mean you have to do both simultaneously.  Why not have some fun/get trained in the navy and then have them pay for you to go to school (GI bill) for a nuke engineering degree? You can then work as a civilian in the nuclear industry.  There are even companies that employ nuke engineers that work directly with the navy for design, training and contruction and repair.

I suppose this is what I'm gunning for as it seems to be the safest bet. I do get my citizenship around after Bootcamp completion so I have no worries about becoming a citizen then. I could also perhaps wait 6 months and get my citizenship but I really need to leave now. My only worrying factor is you have so many people with not only navy experience but college experience too and I will be competing against them in the job field, so wouldn't potential employers flock towards these candidates instead of me? I guess my question is that what can I do to make myself look like a more desirable candidate to compete against these guys besides the obvious (such as getting good grades).

If you were my employer, would you pick me just out of navy (non-nuke) + bachelors in nuclear engineering? What else do you want to see me equipped with? (for someone who wants to do ops -although this could change)

Thanks again for all the replies!

[cheme09]

Coming from the engineering perspective, having a nuke engineering degree and technical operational experience gained through the navy (non-nuke) would make you very desireable (assuming you pursue a technical rating).  You wouldn't believe how many engineers graduate with ZERO experience.  Even of those that have had internships, not many have much operational experience.  Most will be able to tell you how to size a valve or tell you about the pressure drop across a valve. However, A LOT of them will never have turned a real valve in their lives.

If you don't want to be an engineer, you can get into ops straight out of engineering school - at least one member here has done it.  But, you can also get into ops from engineering if you do get hired as an engineer straight out of school.

What else do you want to see me equipped with? (for someone who wants to do ops -although this could change)

If you're unsure, I would say to equip yourself with the right attitude, work hard, and always strive to be in a position where you have options. 

A little personal OE: Upon finishing up my BS degree, my gpa was quite low and I only had one internship under my belt.  The employer I interned with liked me but couldn't hire me because they had a policy of not hiring new grads with a gpa below a certain threshold.  I applied to 3 other jobs, but was denied based on my gpa (even interviewed twice with one of them).  One job I eventually applied for didn't interest me much but offered me the job.  I had no choice but to take it because I probably wouldn't get any other job I applied for.

If you make it to engineering school, keep your gpa up and do as many internships as possible in your desired field.  That will make you a prime candidate for future jobs and give you a little bit of a feel of the industry so you can figure out what exactly you want to go into.

I eventually found a new interest, went back to school for a MS, took those lessons learned with me, and had the opportunity to turn down a job offer instead of take the first one that came my way.

[NukeWannabe]

Coming from the engineering perspective, having a nuke engineering degree and technical operational experience gained through the navy (non-nuke) would make you very desireable (assuming you pursue a technical rating).  You wouldn't believe how many engineers graduate with ZERO experience.  Even of those that have had internships, not many have much operational experience.  Most will be able to tell you how to size a valve or tell you about the pressure drop across a valve. However, A LOT of them will never have turned a real valve in their lives.

If you don't want to be an engineer, you can get into ops straight out of engineering school - at least one member here has done it.  But, you can also get into ops from engineering if you do get hired as an engineer straight out of school.

Thank you so much for this reply. This is just incredibly helpful to someone like me.

Really, my criteria was just to make sure that I would at least look desirable to any potential employer in the event that my naval career gets abysmal. I was fearful for picking something like an EN rate or an AD rate and being told ".. well that field has nothing in similar to what we work on.." and being rejected.

So I suppose I will take your advice and do something like the above mentioned in the navy for 4 years and see where it goes from there. Another thing: I've read on the forums here that it is better to get an engineering degree accredited by EAC of ABET as opposed to an engineering technology degree accredited by TAC of ABET? The thread was about 2 years old - does this still hold true?

Also, I'm guessing it would be really hard to get a degree while being enlisted. Anyways, lots of question but I'm pretty much done with the questions and just want to jump in and see where I land.

You guys have been tremendously helpful. I will be buying NW gold on my first paycheck.

EDIT: Just wondering if something like TESC or Excelsior is a gateway to grad and then pursue a MS in Nuclear Engineering - or is none of this possible? Just curious as to why so many people on here have it as their background.

[cheme09]

Don't let my bias to engineering sway you to engineering.  While I encourage you to explore that path I am not saying taking the engineering route is the preffered way, nor is it the only way to give yourself options.  The bottom line is to do your due diligence, research and figure out what opportunities set you up for success, however you define it.  A majority of the time this will mean getting extra education/training.  But that doesn't always mean getting a college degree or graduate degree.  This can happen in the form of getting extra quals, taking on more responsibilities, apprenticeships, etc.

From my experience, if you're looking to apply to engineering jobs, you want an Engineering degree not an Engineering Technology degree.  Many companies will not hire you into an engineering role with an Eng. Tech degree.  At my company there is a position called "technical specialist".  They work in the engineering group but do not carry the title of engineer.  The pay band is slightly lower compared to the engineering pay band, but from what I've seen the work is pretty similar (sometimes the same).  The only way for the technical specialist to obtain the engineering title is to get a PE or a "real" engineering degree. 

Between the two, the straight engineering degree will give you a better chance of landing a job in engineering.  Your chances in entry-level ops may be the same regardless of which degree, but someone may have better info.

[NukeWannabe]

Hey cheme,

Yes, engineering is ultimately what I want to pursue and passionate about - the tech degree and ops is something I wanna do and get some experience before I do anything additional. However, if it's the same thing then it's valuable knowing that. But as you said, I should and I will keep researching and looking into this since all of this is susceptible to change because of whatever. Again, thank you for the help - I was literally no where before this. I've shot you a PM!