A Few Questions About Pipeline

[Nasant]

So, to start off, my DEP experience is coming to an end.. My ship date is 20131217 (I've been told to expect to possibly leave a little sooner than that by my recruiter(s) because of the December date, but who knows for sure)...

I have a few questions for those who are currently in the pipeline/have gone through the pipeline fairly recently for the nuclear field. They are just a slightly random collection of questions I have come up with that I would like some input on from those that have more recent knowledge (as most threads/webpages I come across seem to be a bit dated)

1. MM/EM/ET. What was your preference given and what did you end up with? Are you happy with the rate?

2. What is the housing situation like in A school / NPS? - Also for Prototype in NY? (though who knows if that will still be an option by the time I hit that point)

3. For those that went MM, what was the selection process for ELT? (Recent knowledge would help, as I've read many different answers for this question)

4. Surface / Sub (again, I know this is a preference one, but I would like to know your opinions)

5. Is it best to keep your head down while at RTC? (I've read/heard the stories/pre(mis?)conceptions about nukes and how they may be looked upon while at Great Lakes)

6. Any regrets? (Kind of broad, I know)

- *Yes. I know that most (if not all) of these questions are answered in some way on these forums, but I'm looking for specifically updated responses / recent graduates of the pipeline. I understand that viewpoints of older members are probably already expressed within these forums, where I am searching for answers that will be more specific to what my experience may be (as policies and standards are always evolving)*

-- That's all I can think of now. I'd appreciate anyone's input on any/all of the questions. Thanks a lot, and I hope to see you current deppers in the pipeline soon!

- Santistevan

[song of the south]

I'm only in A school but maybe I can give you a little insight.

I picked MM. I want to be a mechanic, and hopefully one day an ELT.
Picking your rate isn't all that you think it is before you go to RTC. They just take you in a room, show you a outdated video about NNPTC, and then go through the room asking each person what they prefer. Only one person in my division didn't get what they wanted, but it didn't matter because he got separated anyways. While I've been here I have yet to hear one person say that they were unhappy with what they got even if it wasn't what they had originally picked.


I live in the BEQ. It is the size of a small hotel room. It has a bunk bed and a big walk in closet with plenty of storage space everywhere. I have a roommate. Two rooms are connected by a head with a shower and toilet. Some people think the rooms are too small. I like them. Besides if you're studying like you should be you'll hardly be in the room anyway.

I know you've heard all that garbage about how they are mean to nukes at boot camp. Don't believe it. You'll be treated just the same. You're RDC's might tell you to quit f$@&ing nuking stuff but it's just a thing. Chances are they'll make you or another nuke the EPO....that just means you have to make sure your division does good on their tests. I was EPO and we got all of our academic flags. Not that that's a big deal, but it makes your RDCs happy. They can't pick on you anyway. Hazing is a HUGE deal right now.

My only regret is eating the shrimp in the galley last week.

Best of luck.

[SpaceJustice]

Boot Camp:  Do your best not to really stand out.  Follow everything your RDCs tell you to the best of your ability and if you don't know what you're supposed to do ask someone.  You'll get yelled at from time to time, but it's boot camp so you should be expecting that.  It's much better to ask and do whatever task you are given correctly than to be too afraid to ask for help and mess it up.  This sounds like common sense now, but trust me--you lose a little bit of logic when you're in a compartment being treated like crap.

Rates (Submarine):  ET (My former rate):  Stands watch in Maneuvering or instrumentation.  Only people allowed to qualify Reactor Operator.  Your maintenance almost always has the most visibility because it directly impacts reactor safety.

                            EM:  Stands watch in Maneuvering or in the Engineroom spaces.  Responsible for nearly every piece of electrical equipment on the boat.

                            MM: Stands various watches throughout the Engineroom.  Typically have the best integrated plant knowledge earlier on because they have to operate all the systems with some
frequency.  Maintenance typically has lower visibility, however there are some exceptions such as major relief/safety valve testing.

                            ELT: Basically a mechanic with extra credit.  Only people allowed to qualify ELT.  Stand watch mostly in Engineroom Forward.  Responsible for maintaining primary and secondary plant chemistry as well as providing radiological oversight.  ELT documentation has very high levels of visibility.

Submarines:  You will get the crap worked out of you.  However, the interpersonal relationships are great and the crew is much smarter on average.  You will work very closely with the officers and train them when you get more senior.  It is surprisingly rewarding to have an Ensign you trained become a very competent LT. 

I have no regrets, but I have seen people screw themselves because they decided that "six and out" has to correlate with laziness and unreliability.  Do your best regardless of how long you plan on staying in and it will help you tremendously. 

PM me if you have any other questions.

-Former ET1

[Hilariousity]

1. MM yes I do enjoy being a mechanic

2. In A-School you will be living in a tiny little BEQ. You'll get a sink a toilet and just enough room to store your stuff in the same closet as your roomate and get to sleep on bunk bed in a room you'll share with one other person. (not true if you are married)

In Power School you'll get a slightly bigger BEQ with individual twin beds and closets with a bit more room to store your stuff with the same sink and bathroom setup that you will have in A-School and will more than likely still have a roommate. (not true if you are married)

In prototype in New York you will have to find your own apartment and likely make bank as you will be earning base pay, around $1200 per month in BAH, and $300 something in BAS which is really quite nice actually.

3. Don't know and don't care really, I want to be a real mechanic

4. my next opinions tend to vary by rate but I'm going to explain the difference between surface and sub MMs because thats what I tend to remember

Surface Pros
- you don't work as much while in port therefore less stressful
- you have access to phones and internet while at sea so you can still maintain contact with your loved ones
- there are now starbucks on aircraft carriers
- your ship has a fairly regular schedule so that you can make plans in advance as well as take leave. (This is also true on SSBN's)
- you get your own damn bed on the ship that you don't have to share with other people

Sub Pros
- you'll be a better mechanic
- you learn more jobs skills that you can use in the civilian world
- the foods better
-Subs have air conditioning in machinery spaces (I believe this is also true in the USS Gerald R. Ford the newest aircraft carrier)
-you get your own little BEQ while in port instead of just living on the boat(only applies if you don't earn BAH)

5. Yes and try not to let any of your RDC's know that you are a nuke and don't volunteer for leadership positions in RTC its just not worth it. (Once again, just my opinion) If you are really good ducking under the radar your RDC's will probably not know who you are by the time you leave

[Fermi2]

Stop putting down cliches about ELT and being a mechanic. I was an ELT and was one of the best mechanics around, I knew a few more who were excellent mechanics.

Given Surface Mechanics do for more traditional mechanical work than submariners (I know I was on a sub) how can you say going Sub will make you a better mechanic? The surface guys I know were more knowledgeable on maintenance than the sub guys because they did more real maintanence at sea...

[Tyson812]

First MM is probably the best, followed immediately by ET. If you end up on a carrier EM wouldn't be bad either. ELT would be as good as it gets. If you go surface you get a lot of free time and you will not be a mechanic. If you're on a sub you will work harder for sure, but I would say its much more satisfying as well. Everybody will hate in you because they secretly wanted to be an ELT, but didn't get picked up. I am a crew leading elt at prototype and I can tell you exactly how guys get picked up, same goes for staff. They pick up an equal percentage from all GPA based ranks,  once you are about to qualify mechanic you'll route your paperwork to the crew lelt and he will send it to the crci master chief. However I base my recommendation on whether I would like to work with that kid if he came to my boat. Even if he isn't smartest if he has a good work ethic and he sociable. Same exact process for spu.
    I went to bootcamp in winter and it sucked. We spent over half the day everyday getting dressed or undressed to go outside. Now the ships all have galleys and classrooms within them so I don't think it's an issue anymore. They are all climate controlled as well do the days of making it rain are long gone. Try to get a ships job, mail po is a pretty sweet job I must say. A-school will be 2 people to a room and 4 people to a bathroom. P-school will be 1 per room 2 people to a bathroom. Prototype you will rent an appt or house.
  One thing I forgot to mention is if you go MM there is currently a 6-12 month hold after you graduate power school you will sit at prototype for a year as a hold student. You will spend time on shift cleaning a little and off shift getting parts and running errands for mod. This is not a bad deal. This started when my shutdown over Swis and continued when 626 generator broke.
  Submarines vs surface ships. Hmmm I work with 50/50 right now, the general rule is sub guys are better and more experienced than surface guys. But there are exceptions to every rule and there are some good surface guys I work with. This leads me to believe that just like everything else it is what you make of it, and you'll get out what you put in. On a submarine though we will make you put out, there is no options , you'll pull your weight or you will quit. On a surface ship you have phone, TV, internet , cappuccino, gangs, prostitution and drama. On a submarine you have each other, pride, and whatever you could fit into your tiny little rack pan.
  Wouldn't do it again, but wouldn't trade it for the world. Good luck.

[drayer54]

I love how sub guys draw conclusions about who works harder and who is better and blah blah blah.

You're own aptitude, work ethic, and attitude will determine how good you are at your job and if you do it right, you will work hard and be good at whatever job on whatever platform you find yourself on.

Also, not everybody wants or wanted to be an ELT 

The Starbucks must be new.....

Sub Pros
- you'll be a better mechanic 
- you learn more jobs skills that you can use in the civilian world
- the foods better

What job skills do you learn on a sub that you don't on a carrier for the civilian world?

[GLW]

I love how sub guys draw conclusions about who works harder and who is better and blah blah blah.

You're own aptitude, work ethic, and attitude will determine how good you are at your job and if you do it right, you will work hard and be good at whatever job on whatever platform you find yourself on.

Also, not everybody wants or wanted to be an ELT 

The Starbucks must be new.....
What job skills do you learn on a sub that you don't on a carrier for the civilian world?

Get with the program Drayer,...

Stop being a salty dog,...

......That's how everyone else feels towards all you salty dogs on here after reading through pages of your rude and aggressive unprovoked comments.

[Marlin]

4. Surface / Sub (again, I know this is a preference one, but I would like to know your opinions)

  Lack of specialization on the boats due to small crews give a broader base of responsibilities and experience than a carrier. We handled lines as we had no Boatswain's mate on board (that was us), participated in weapons drills (ELTs anyway), no segregated berthing by departments, all hands functions were all hands, we had no damage control personnel (we were them). Even in rate you have a more diverse participation in all functions. There was less tolerance for slackers, slow qualification on engineering quals or ships quals were met with pressure from your chiefs and fellow shipmates to come up to perform up to expectations.
  I have to agree that ex bubbleheads on average are better performers in the civilian world. I am a bit prejudice about the boats, I am the base commander for my local chapter of the United States Submarine Veterans and the District Commander for seven bases. We have sub vets from WWII up to a couple of active reservists in our local chapter the sense of camaraderie in ex boat sailors is stronger than the targets.

Marlin MM1(SS) ELT

[Marlin]

I love how sub guys draw conclusions about who works harder and who is better and blah blah blah.

You're own aptitude, work ethic, and attitude will determine how good you are at your job and if you do it right, you will work hard and be good at whatever job on whatever platform you find yourself on.

Also, not everybody wants or wanted to be an ELT  

The Starbucks must be new.....
What job skills do you learn on a sub that you don't on a carrier for the civilian world?

[Tyson812]

I love how sub guys draw conclusions about who works harder and who is better and blah blah blah.

You're own aptitude, work ethic, and attitude will determine how good you are at your job and if you do it right, you will work hard and be good at whatever job on whatever platform you find yourself on.

Also, not everybody wants or wanted to be an ELT 

The Starbucks must be new.....
What job skills do you learn on a sub that you don't on a carrier for the civilian world?

It's not my opinion, like I said I thinks it's what you make of it, we have awesome sub and surface guys, and we have bad sub and surface guys. But if you go surface you will be constantly having to prove yourself, as it's a generalization that sub guys are more experienced.

[Tyson812]

O come on, you mean to tell me you guys didn't joke back and forth about subs vs surface and mechanics vs elts in your day too. Sometimes it's the little stuff like that, that makes 15-16 hour days even bearable.

[SpaceJustice]

Tyson, just curious.  Were you on the Kentucky?

[Hilariousity]

Stop putting down cliches about ELT and being a mechanic. I was an ELT and was one of the best mechanics around, I knew a few more who were excellent mechanics.

Given Surface Mechanics do for more traditional mechanical work than submariners (I know I was on a sub) how can you say going Sub will make you a better mechanic? The surface guys I know were more knowledgeable on maintenance than the sub guys because they did more real maintanence at sea...

My understanding is that you are more likely to become a better mechanic on a sub because there are less of you therefore there are more responsibilities for each person.

What job skills do you learn on a sub that you don't on a carrier for the civilian world?

Quality Assurance and I was lead to believe you can get a military class license to buy refrigerants because subs have air conditioning units in machinery spaces. Is that correct?

[Tyson812]

Yes, I was on the KY, your name sounds familiar but I can't picture you. I'm assuming you showed up as I left in late 2011.
Yes you can get EPA certification on sub. Everywhere except prototype now, contracts all real maintenance to shipyard, And we only do real maintenance on the diesel. Nobody will get the opportunity to roll out a bearing or anything like that anymore unless you work for shipyard.

[SpaceJustice]

Yes, I was on the KY, your name sounds familiar but I can't picture you. I'm assuming you showed up as I left in late 2011.
Yes you can get EPA certification on sub. Everywhere except prototype now, contracts all real maintenance to shipyard, And we only do real maintenance on the diesel. Nobody will get the opportunity to roll out a bearing or anything like that anymore unless you work for shipyard.

I got to the boat in 2010, I think we were on opposite crews.  I think the only ELT left that was around for you on your crew was Meengs and he is EAOSing soon.  Small world.

[GLW]

.......... I was lead to believe you can get a military class license to buy refrigerants because subs have air conditioning units in machinery spaces. Is that correct?

trading away six years of your life for a 608 or 609 certification is a lousy piece of any reason to become a Navy nuke sub sailor,...

not that a Navy recruiter would not use that to intice the unknowing to think "ooooooooooh!!!!!!!", but, it's a poor trade,...

really poor,....

and hardly a deal maker, any Navy nuke should be able to handle 608/609 certification on the outside,...

if they can't,....I weep for the NNPP,....

[drayer54]

trading away six years of your life for a 608 or 609 certification is a lousy piece of any reason to become a Navy nuke sub sailor,...


if they can't,....I weep for the NNPP,....

I would hot rack for that......

[Tyson812]

One of my spus just went to KY as well. Meengs was a trip! Good guy though.

[Tyson812]

I would hot rack for that......

LOL

[drayer54]

O come on, you mean to tell me you guys didn't joke back and forth about subs vs surface and mechanics vs elts in your day too. Sometimes it's the little stuff like that, that makes 15-16 hour days even bearable.

Nah. Unlike sub-marine-ers who are so bored that they spend their time brainstorming reasons that they are superior to everyone else, we usually talked about sports on tv, stuff on the internet, reflected on our time off, or visited with the people around us.

Besides, we still had to stand watch and keep all of our racks and lockers organized. I barely had time to stand in line at Starbucks before watch and iron my clothes after the laundry department was done with my uniforms. Who had the time to rate bash? I don't think I ever heard a mention of submariners in our berthing once...... Not once.

  Lack of specialization on the boats due to small crews give a broader base of responsibilities and experience than a carrier. We handled lines as we had no Boatswain's mate on board (that was us), participated in weapons drills (ELTs anyway), no segregated berthing by departments, all hands functions were all hands, we had no damage control personnel (we were them). Even in rate you have a more diverse participation in all functions.expectations, awesome etc...,

1) you go listen to air heads ask the same question every week about new uniforms and stricter pt regs. I didn't. In port it's picnics and holidays, neither of which you are getting.
2) if you want to play with lines, you can go do it. BM's love help. Working party volunteers needed too. Why does line handling help you?
3) how do you know about tolerance differences? We didn't make sad pandas and tunas left and right because of our hug sessions .
4) Nukes fight every plant fire and have a role in repair lockers. Turns out the whole navy does that dc thing
5) More diverse operations? Subs don't do s**t at sea. I'd love to see a sub do an equivalent of a tg bearing inspection or a feed pump turbine overhaul ( I did both).

slackers, slow qualification on engineering quals or ships quals were met with pressure from your chiefs and fellow shipmates to come up to perform up to expectations.
  I have to agree that ex bubbleheads on average are better performers in the civilian world. I am a bit prejudice about the boats, I am the base commander for my local chapter of the United States Submarine Veterans and the District Commander for seven bases. We have sub vets from WWII up to a couple of active reservists in our local chapter the sense of camaraderie in ex boat sailors is stronger than the targets.

Marlin MM1(SS) ELT

Confirmation bias? Anyone?

The highest two people at my plant were not sub-marine-ers. They were low standard bearers of the specialized topside navy.


To the op: the phones never work, internet is slow by the 90's standards and the computer:sailor ratio is about the same as the attractive women onboard: total crew ratio. AFN commercials suck and there's nothing like a foreign port with your 6000 closest friends.
It's what you make of it on either. I know a lot more sub guys who had short sea tours though. From what I've gathered SSBN life is prob the most cake of them all but I suggest you look up hot racking.... Personally I never considered volunteering subs. Wasn't a tough call.
Good luck and I'm sure a few years on either, you will be proud of what you did and think the other guys are full of crap.

[GLW]

.....5) More diverse operations? Subs don't do shit at sea. I'd love to see a sub do an equivalent of a tg bearing inspection or a feed pump turbine overhaul ( I did both)..........

Opened and hand honed the main reduction gears while dead in the water, on the surface, in the middle of the North Pacific Ocean, on a roly poly submarine,...

But, it was summertime and the weather topside was nice,...so I was told,...

Actually, I did both, sub and surface plus I did conventional and nuke,...

But my experiences are way too long ago to be considered relevant to what the OP is looking for,...

After all, women in forces afloat?!?!?!?!

Maybe some tugboats and the Lexington, but not much more than that,...

But, then again,...there were a lot of women on the Lexington,....

[drayer54]

Opened and hand honed the main reduction gears while dead in the water, on the surface, in the middle of the North Pacific Ocean, on a roly poly submarine,...

But, it was summertime and the weather topside was nice,...so I was told,...

Actually, I did both, sub and surface plus I did conventional and nuke,...
But, then again,...there were a lot of women on the Lexington,....

So you're saying you get to do challenging stuff on both... Interesting

[GLW]

So you're saying you get to do challenging stuff on both... Interesting

ah hell yea!!!!

I was the Water King's gopher on a Gearing Class destroyer,...

for the uninitiated, Gearing's were tough bastard steel ships but were developed back in WW2 so water was for the boilers first and the men second,...

FRAM 1 and 2 did little to alleviate that paradigm,...

if we were out more than 3 days we were on water hours,....

we ran escort for the Lexington out of Pensacola,..

it was pure awesome luck I got that duty out of 1200# MM "A" school, there were fleet strikers offering me 10K to trade orders with them, I was only a MMFN, but I knew any orders worth 10K to someone who already had fleet time were worth holding onto for myself,...

sweet duty,...

[Marlin]

Nah. Unlike sub-marine-ers who are so bored that they spend their time brainstorming reasons that they are superior to everyone else, we usually talked about sports on tv, stuff on the internet, reflected on our time off, or visited with the people around us.

Besides, we still had to stand watch and keep all of our racks and lockers organized. I barely had time to stand in line at Starbucks before watch and iron my clothes after the laundry department was done with my uniforms. Who had the time to rate bash? I don't think I ever heard a mention of submariners in our berthing once...... Not once.
1) you go listen to air heads ask the same question every week about new uniforms and stricter pt regs. I didn't. In port it's picnics and holidays, neither of which you are getting.
2) if you want to play with lines, you can go do it. BM's love help. Working party volunteers needed too. Why does line handling help you?
3) how do you know about tolerance differences? We didn't make sad pandas and tunas left and right because of our hug sessions .
4) Nukes fight every plant fire and have a role in repair lockers. Turns out the whole navy does that dc thing
5) More diverse operations? Subs don't do s**t at sea. I'd love to see a sub do an equivalent of a tg bearing inspection or a feed pump turbine overhaul ( I did both).


Confirmation bias? Anyone?

The highest two people at my plant were not sub-marine-ers. They were low standard bearers of the specialized topside navy.

My, My, we seem to have struck a nerve. Don't be a hater you know what I said was true. Bias I admit to but facts are facts submariners did have a more diverse responsibility there was much more pressure from all of your shipmates to succeed because of a smaller crew and limited watch standers. As for maintenance at sea I replaced a sea water pump seal, no small feat when you have to do it on the surface with the engineer getting pressure from the CO to get his boat back to operational status. As for observational experience in civilian performance I did say on average and I believe I can claim a little more experience there and over a larger cross section of the nuclear industry.

"Of course that is just my opinion, I could be wrong"  Dennis Miller