The Future of Electric Grids: Distributed Generation

[Marlin]

This is not specifically nuclear but on the changing power distribution and increasing influence of natural gas. The comment at the end of the article is what really caught my eye.

"If people put in natural-gas emergency equipment, then we could see that being used as everyday distributed generation."

The Future of Electric Grids: Distributed Generation

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303680404579143311122805126

[Rennhack]

"If people put in natural-gas emergency equipment, then we could see that being used as everyday distributed generation."

I have a 20k generator that runs my house when the power goes out.

[Marlin]

I have a 20k generator that runs my house when the power goes out.

I got a visual of "Warlock" from Die Hard     

But it is the Nukeworker command center. 

[drayer54]

It gives me great pride to go stand by the side of my house every Saturday at 11am and watch my gas generator kick on and do its weekly run. I wanted a big nasty tractor engine one like we got at the plant with an obnoxious chimney, but this will do.

[HydroDave63]

"If people put in natural-gas emergency equipment, then we could see that being used as everyday distributed generation."

Oh yeah, that's be sweet. Noise and exhaust from every other house. Not to mention that the MMBTu/kWh efficiency on that HahBah Freight unit in the garage is lower, so your cost of generation at home will be higher than buying from the power company. And the neighborhood gas compressors to maintain pressure.

It is great as an emergency back-up unit, but distributed natgas gen would be a goatrope. Rooftop solar is much more practical.

[Rennhack]

It gives me great pride to go stand by the side of my house every Saturday at 11am and watch my gas generator kick on and do its weekly run. I wanted a big nasty tractor engine one like we got at the plant with an obnoxious chimney, but this will do.

Mine does its thing Wednesday at 1pm, just out side my office window.

[Marlin]

Oh yeah, that's be sweet. Noise and exhaust from every other house. Not to mention that the MMBTu/kWh efficiency on that HahBah Freight unit in the garage is lower, so your cost of generation at home will be higher than buying from the power company. And the neighborhood gas compressors to maintain pressure.

It is great as an emergency back-up unit, but distributed natgas gen would be a goatrope. Rooftop solar is much more practical.

I think they mean the in future as the cost of natural gas recedes. If some of the new super capacitors pan out for power storage solar and wind will look much better for private use.

[HydroDave63]

I think they mean the in future as the cost of natural gas recedes. If some of the new super capacitors pan out for power storage solar and wind will look much better for private use.

My criticism aimed at the Tepper Business dudes, not Marlin   I love how the guy throws in the new universal business need 'next hurricane Sandy'. Second thing that gets turned off in a disaster after electricity is natgas. Thus, the diesel or propane tank is still a better plan than residential gas service. Private wind...how will THAT work in a neighborhood?

[Marlin]

Thus, the diesel or propane tank is still a better plan than residential gas service.

   A big part of hazardous material retrieval I did after Katrina were propane tanks that floated away from properties on a 30 foot storm surge. We found five on one guys property who didn't have any prior to the storm. 

Private wind...how will THAT work in a neighborhood?

   I keeping forgetting you city folk have neighbors closer than 1000 feet  On a serious note there are some horizontal spiral designs that are currently mounted on roofs of buildings in the city I suspect smaller versions for residential can't be far behind.

[Marlin]

I suspect smaller versions for residential can't be far behind.

   Wow was I wrong it's been a few years since I saw the article on the wind turbines I mentioned. Do a search for home wind turbines, there is a myriad of new designs for the home (even in town) and I didn't see the horizontal egg beater style I remembered, but then I gave up after going through a number of sites.

[drayer54]

If you get tired of working at your power plant, just go run your own. They sell them practically everywhere these days.

http://cedarrapids.craigslist.org/bfs/4160987459.html

[Rennhack]

I have a 20k generator that runs my house when the power goes out.

This comment of mine has been bothering me since I posted it.  I have the "Centurion by Generac Power Systems 20kW/18kW Automatic Standby".  The 20kW description isn't entirely incorrect, but it is incorrect for practical purposes. That model generates 20kW if using propane.  I use hard piped natural gas, witch results in the lower 18kW.  18kW is still a lot, and enough for even my needs.  I just hate to be inaccurate.

[Marlin]

This comment of mine has been bothering me since I posted it.  I have the "Centurion by Generac Power Systems 20kW/18kW Automatic Standby".  The 20kW description isn't entirely incorrect, but it is incorrect for practical purposes. That model generates 20kW if using propane.  I use hard piped natural gas, witch results in the lower 18kW.  18kW is still a lot, and enough for even my needs.  I just hate to be inaccurate.

Still more than the 10kw standard models I have been looking at.

[Rennhack]

Still more than the 10kw standard models I have been looking at.

It's description is "One of the most powerful air-cooled generators on the market today, this unit provides whole house power protection for many homes."

[GLW]

........Private wind...how will THAT work in a neighborhood?

well, if you can get a 30 year exemption I reckon just fine as long as it blows,...

Administration to give wind farms a 30 year pass to kill Bald Eagles

http://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/topic,37374.0.html

[drayer54]

I'm not so secretly cheering for a good ice storm to test out my machine.

Next step is going to be installing a second breaker box and carrying the non-essential breaker box on incoming power only and using the generac to carry the "essential" box as a backup. If I installed a firewall between the generator and my house that could be good too. No nuke would ever doubt where the guy in that house worked.....

[GLW]

I'm not so secretly cheering for a good ice storm to test out my machine.

Next step is going to be installing a second breaker box and carrying the non-essential breaker box on incoming power only and using the generac to carry the "essential" box as a backup. If I installed a firewall between the generator and my house that could be good too. No nuke would ever doubt where the guy in that house worked.....

too small time,...

if you can go through all that trouble you can pour a slab, install an above ground tank, build a shed around it, and slide in one of these alongside the tank inside the shed, then soundproof the shed so your neighbors never know better (or live far enough out that neighbors do not matter):



one good batch of outage paychecks and you're done, there are no vital and non-vital loads when you have plenty of power to power all the loads all the time,...

if you're gonna go, go big,...

you can get these in natgas too if you're hooked on gas,...

I'm just saying,...

[HydroDave63]

too small time,...

if you can go through all that trouble you can pour a slab, install an above ground tank, build a shed around it, and slide in one of these alongside the tank inside the shed, then soundproof the shed so your neighbors never know better (or live far enough out that neighbors do not matter):



one good batch of outage paychecks and you're done, there are no vital and non-vital loads when you have plenty of power to power all the loads all the time,...

if you're gonna go, go big,...

you can get these in natgas too if you're hooked on gas,...

I'm just saying,...

don't forget the 50ms ABT switchgear...   

http://www.eaton.com/ecm/idcplg?IdcService=GET_FILE&allowInterrupt=1&RevisionSelectionMethod=LatestReleased&Rendition=Primary&dDocName=TB02200004E

[Gamecock]

don't forget the 50ms ABT switchgear...   

http://www.eaton.com/ecm/idcplg?IdcService=GET_FILE&allowInterrupt=1&RevisionSelectionMethod=LatestReleased&Rendition=Primary&dDocName=TB02200004E

I know someone who can get you a great employee discount on breakers and switchgear

[HydroDave63]

I know someone who can get you a great employee discount on breakers and switchgear

Are any of them haze grey, with WestPac stories in pencil on the inside of the cover? 

[Fermi2]

If they are marked NOFORN I am in!

[Marlin]

The Rise of the Personal Power Plant

Smart and agile power systems will let every home and business generate, store, and share electricity

http://spectrum.ieee.org/energy/the-smarter-grid/the-rise-of-the-personal-power-plant

[Roll Tide]

When the regulations / offered contracts catch up with technology, maybe there will be some real reason for home generation to the grid.
I hate electric generated by wind: it claims to be clean, but has to be backed up by something cheap because the wind doesn't blow when you want it.
I would love for a "green" incentive utility to offer a pump storage option; use wind power to pump water from low on my property (e.g. a pond or the river or underground water) to an area high on my property (e.g. another pond). Then when electric demand was high enough, the utility could trigger my litle water turbine and produce actual useful energy when they had the need!
If I had land with various elevations (almost a given in the southern Appalachians!) but no significant wind, I could even use an electric pump as the source of my water on high ground.

Not yet can I really use wind energy at my home, as they base pay for untimely (direct) electric generation. But maybe someday...

[HydroDave63]

The Rise of the Personal Power Plant

Smart and agile power systems will let every home and business generate, store, and share electricity

http://spectrum.ieee.org/energy/the-smarter-grid/the-rise-of-the-personal-power-plant

 “If you lose 30 gigawatts in just 10 cycles”—two-tenths of a second, that is—“you can’t ramp up conventional generators quickly enough to compensate,” Kroposki notes. So the Germans had to spend the equivalent of hundreds of millions of dollars on smarter inverters and communication links that would allow the PV arrays to automatically ride through any disturbances rather than simply shut down.

Customers are paying dearly for those upgrades: Electricity rates in Germany have doubled since 2002, to about 40 U.S. cents per kilowatt-hour. That’s more than four times the price of electricity in Illinois. Many other countries are now learning from these experiences, Kroposki adds, “to make sure that solar and wind systems integrate with the grid in ways that help overall system stability.”

So, Marlin, you want $0.40/kWh residential ?

[Marlin]

So, Marlin, you want $0.40/kWh residential ?

I just posted what I thought was an interesting article.    It may be the future though in some form, as technology progresses.