Nuclear power’s time has come

[Marlin]

Nuclear power's time has come


http://www.post-gazette.com/opinion/Op-Ed/2016/08/12/Nuclear-power-s-time-has-come/stories/201608110042

[Rerun]

Not in the US

[hamsamich]

I guess what happened in NY is just a figment of everyone's imagination?

[GLW]

I guess what happened in NY is just a figment of everyone's imagination?

what happened in New York is life support,...

not growth,...

just keeping it real,...

[Marlin]

what happened in New York is life support,...

not growth,...

just keeping it real,...

To back up hamsamich the article did talk about current and future of nuclear power not just the stop gap to nuclear free.

Keeping it real real.   

[GLW]

To back up hamsamich the article did talk about current and future of nuclear power not just the stop gap to nuclear free.

Keeping it real real.   

Okay, still "What happened in New York", is none of the things your article expounded upon,...

what happened in New York is life support , there is no  language in the NY State CES for new nuclear construction or a nuclear future,....

what happened in New York is a life support bridge to a non nuclear future,.....

east of the Pecos and south of the Mason Dixon line there may be a nuclear future with growth,....

not in New York, not  this year or next anyways,.....

[SloGlo]

"what happened in New York is a life support bridge to a non nuclear future,....."

yet the article segues to discussing future nuclear power developments ala traveling wave reactors.
fission ust two bee looked at as stopgap to fusion. now its seen as a stepping stone in the current of power.  😉

[Marlin]

Okay, still "What happened in New York", is none of the things your article expounded upon,...

what happened in New York is life support , there is no  language in the NY State CES for new nuclear construction or a nuclear future,....

what happened in New York is a life support bridge to a non nuclear future,.....

east of the Pecos and south of the Mason Dixon line there may be a nuclear future with growth,....

not in New York, not  this year or next anyways,.....

I am not sure what you are getting at the article says this:

The evidence can be found in New York state's farsighted decision to reward nuclear plants for their chief advantage in electricity production: They produce zero carbon emissions. Due to a clean-energy standard approved by the state's Public Service Commission and backed by Gov. Andrew Cuomo, a credit can be paid to nuclear plants in upstate by utilities that use their power. This payment is part of an effort to wean the state off fossil fuels and save reactors battered economically by competition from cheap natural gas.

And it says this:

While there are no firm plans to build more, as many as 50 nuclear companies are developing designs for a new generation of advanced nuclear plants, including small modular reactors that could be built in factories for a fraction of the cost of today's large nuclear plants.

That is what is happening in NY and the future of nuclear. One is stop gap the other is the the next generation of reactors that can compete in the market.

[GLW]

...........

One is stop gap,...

THAT is happening in New York,...

..........the other is the the next generation of reactors that can compete in the market.

THAT is NOT happening in New York,...

read the CES White Paper,...

http://documents.dps.ny.gov/public/Common/ViewDoc.aspx?DocRefId=%7B930CE8E2-F2D8-404C-9E36-71A72123A89D%7D

......The nuclear tier supports a smooth emission-free transition from nuclear to non-nuclear resources in the event that energy prices are not able to support the continued financial viability of the plants during their license lives....

nuclear is not "coming into it's own" in New York,...

this nuclear has already been here, it's been here a long, long time,...

it just cannot compete in a merchant market with cheap natural gas,...

and they cannot just be "mothballed" until natgas prices skyrocket again,...

the author is spinning:

The evidence can be found in New York state's farsighted decision to reward nuclear plants for their chief advantage in electricity production: They produce zero carbon emissions. Due to a clean-energy standard approved by the state's Public Service Commission and backed by Gov. Andrew Cuomo, a credit can be paid to nuclear plants in upstate by utilities that use their power. This payment is part of an effort to wean the state off fossil fuels and save reactors battered economically by competition from cheap natural gas.

NO!!!!!!


beyond current approved license lives there is ZERO commitment to nuclear in NY State,...

the ZECs are part of an effort to bridge the gap between today and tomorrow WITHOUT violating NY State's own goals which are self inflicted miseries which now even more onerous FOR THE STATE because of the recent court ruling holding up Obama's carbon credit money redistribution BS,...

New York is not trying to save "battered reactors",...

New York is saving itself from it's own emissions goals!!!!!!

and this is all made up garbage,...

carbon free generation goals are made up on junk, cherry picked science,...

money (aka subsidies) are doled out between the politicos and the politico puppet masters,...

AND, if it takes an extra 2 bucks a month on my utility bill to maintain the charade of carbon free generation advancement; well then, by golly, those 12 million New York households will pay that extra 24 million per month and 288 million per year to make those numbers look good,...

at least until 2030, maybe 2040 at the latest,...

as I said before:

yes, it does,...

"Clean Air" is the cause célèbre for this regulation,...

we can spout off with "no, it is not" 'til hell freezes over, but no one is listening outside the echo chamber of realists,...

"people" like the fuzzy bunny and unicorn rainbow veneers on top of their daily "first world cozy" existence,...

this regulation (as I have previously noted on these threads) is where the cold hard reality of a first world standard of living collides with the fuzzy bunny and unicorn rainbow fantasy of flicking the switch and being bathed in Gaia friendly green electricity,...

ergo, it ain't happening,...

BUT,...

"Clean Air", as a contrived, politically manipulated, false religion of hypocritical fantasy based "feel goodism" is what this IS all about,...

as I have typed here before:

the end goal of these zealots does not have any pro-nuclear acolytes,...

in their world view; nuke plants are evil,...

as a bridge to utopia, nuke plants have emerged as a necessary evil,...

this is not a nuclear Renaissance, it's just life support, and they WILL pull the plug as soon as they can,...

hopefully, our colleagues inside the nuke plants can secure their retirement or evolve into a new and substantial line of work before that plug is pulled,...

at this time however, I would not recommend anybody join the Navy Nuclear Power Program,...

nope, I would not,...

okay,...I'm done now,...

[Marlin]

THAT is happening in New York,...

THAT is NOT happening in New York,...

read the CES White Paper,...

http://documents.dps.ny.gov/public/Common/ViewDoc.aspx?DocRefId=%7B930CE8E2-F2D8-404C-9E36-71A72123A89D%7D

......The nuclear tier supports a smooth emission-free transition from nuclear to non-nuclear resources in the event that energy prices are not able to support the continued financial viability of the plants during their license lives....

nuclear is not "coming into it's own" in New York,...

this nuclear has already been here, it's been here a long, long time,...

it just cannot compete in a merchant market with cheap natural gas,...

and they cannot just be "mothballed" until natgas prices skyrocket again,...

the author is spinning:

The evidence can be found in New York state's farsighted decision to reward nuclear plants for their chief advantage in electricity production: They produce zero carbon emissions. Due to a clean-energy standard approved by the state's Public Service Commission and backed by Gov. Andrew Cuomo, a credit can be paid to nuclear plants in upstate by utilities that use their power. This payment is part of an effort to wean the state off fossil fuels and save reactors battered economically by competition from cheap natural gas.

NO!!!!!!


beyond current approved license lives there is ZERO commitment to nuclear in NY State,...

the ZECs are part of an effort to bridge the gap between today and tomorrow WITHOUT violating NY State's own goals which are self inflicted miseries which now even more onerous FOR THE STATE because of the recent court ruling holding up Obama's carbon credit money redistribution BS,...

New York is not trying to save "battered reactors",...

New York is saving itself from it's own emissions goals!!!!!!

and this is all made up garbage,...

carbon free generation goals are made up on junk, cherry picked science,...

money (aka subsidies) are doled out between the politicos and the politico puppet masters,...

AND, if it takes an extra 2 bucks a month on my utility bill to maintain the charade of carbon free generation advancement; well then, by golly, those 12 million New York households will pay that extra 24 million per month and 288 million per year to make those numbers look good,...

at least until 2030, maybe 2040 at the latest,...

as I said before:

okay,...I'm done now,...

I don't think we are in disagrement other than I was only discussing the OP article.

[hamsamich]

24 more years (2040) aint exactly just "life support" for 40 year old reactors.  3 or 4 more years would be life support, that's an opinion though.  What happened to lemmings?

Like I said before, I don't care the reasoning behind it.  All I know is hydro, nuclear and renewables are the only big ways to get more crbon free pwr.  they aint making too many more new rivers, renewables (as well as battery R&D) aren't as far ahead as the greenies think.  Only leaves one thing....  *sing it* one of these things is not like the other, one of these things...  That is some GLW-style poetry.

Call it what you want, but if a bunch of reactors that were going to be shutdown due to prolonged periods of low natural gas prices can operate for another 20 years due to 0 carbon output...that's basically a whole lic. extension.  a big big bridge.  pace maker style life support. 

to me calling it a bridge to the future or life support is probably a way to make the greenies feel good.  these old-a$$ reactors are going to keep on keeping on is what it says to me. 

sure if renewables are available in force in 30 years we would obviously use them, but will they?  so then, what will we do if renewables aren't available on that scale in 30 years and we need carbon free output?  the article is basically saying maybe nuclear plants will be needed even longer if renewables aren't where we think they will be a long time frome now if 0 carbon output is still valued.

this isn't about whether global warming is happening, it is all about what our society values... 0 carbon output or not.  if things stay like they are and 0 carbon output is still valuable in 30 years, it will be either renewables, hydro or nuclear unless some other entity pops up.

What happpened in NY is a response to Rerun, "Not in the US" is basically saying nothing in the article was right, but that's how rerun plays, he doesn't have enough time for us peons to let us know what he does and doesn't agree with. What about "not in the US"?  not what?  the article said many things.  He said "not in the US", but the article used a point of fact (NY) that was in the US to show the US is putting its money where its mouth is when it comes to the value of nuclear power and carbon production in at least one state.  So either he didn't read the article or he just likes to yell 4 word phrases to make sure we all know the king has spoken.

To be fair to this point of view, the article mostly talks about the changing point of view in the US towards Ncuelar power generation due to the importance of lowering carbon signature in the us.  It doesn't say we are going to start building a bunch of new reactors next week.  It offers a couple intriguing possibilities and evidence that the view on nuclear is changing....IN THE US.