Japan's effect on US Nuclear Power Plants

[yalikedags?]

Good morning all,

What do you believe will be the "fallout" in reference to how US Nuke plants are viewed by the general public following Japan's tragedies? I have watched our president and several politicians make fools of themselves by continuously spewing nonsense from their mouths regarding the situation in Japan and the steps that should be taken to recover. Do you see this as a problem moving forward for new plant licensure/existing license extensions? I have seen a certain Mass. congressman call for a complete examination of US Nuke plants from top to botton; do you believe this will be a further detriment to the industry when it already deals with mass ignorance from the people in regards to the details of the industry?

Thanks,

[PJMcG]

The Fukushima accident will have dramatic affects on the US Nuclear Industry.  The capital costs associated with building new plants is daunting and when the uncertainty of completion due to legal injunction, put forth with impunity from the opposition, and the delay in seeing any return for years, makes it already extremely difficult to undertake.  Add to that the hysteria whipped up by the media (all outlets are guilty of hyping this; even the "good" ones).

Anti nukes succeeded in bringing about an early end of life to Oyster Creek.  They will be emboldened when it comes to opposing license extensions to plants like Pilgrim. 

The expenses associated with additional inspections, planning, and drilling will further erode existing plants profits.

Earlier this week there was a TMI Accident Anniversary protest outside the plant.  No doubt the numbers swelled due to events at Fukushima.

Anti-nuclear organizations don't have to win the technical arguments - they just have to make it too expensive to justify and they win.  Exactly the strategy that the current administration is taking with oil and gasoline.  Make the alternatives more economical, by whatever means including ignoring subsidies and unintended consequences (e.g., skyrocketing cost of corn as food due to ethanol) and bingo.

In short follow the money.

[yalikedags?]

Thank you PJMcG

[yalikedags?]

I did some blogging on a couple of sights that were covering the Japan tragedy (links from Fox News) and it was revloting reading all of these so called "educated" people calling for CLEAN COAL! CLEAN COAL!................. LMAO!

Believe me, there were some nukes on there letting those D.A.s have it. It is depressing, the percentage of the population that have no idea what is going on.

[namlive]

There are several quick lessons I can think of:

1) Longer life on backup batteries
2) Move Diesels inside secure buildinf, if not already
3) Put a real roof on the reactor building
4) Spread your nuke plants out. Don't put all your eggs in one basket. As of today the main building (I assume a common admin building) has a dose rate of 94 mr/hr with 15 mr/hr at the main gate. This is making it difficult to operate the unaffected units, which officials are hinting at may be decommissioned also.
5) Anybody ever think of an emergency natural convection cooling design?
6) Remember, without TMI most of us road-techs would be saying, "Would you like fries with that?"

[Cycoticpenguin]

There are several quick lessons I can think of:

1) Longer life on backup batteries
2) Move Diesels inside secure buildinf, if not already
3) Put a real roof on the reactor building
4) Spread your nuke plants out. Don't put all your eggs in one basket. As of today the main building (I assume a common admin building) has a dose rate of 94 mr/hr with 15 mr/hr at the main gate. This is making it difficult to operate the unaffected units, which officials are hinting at may be decommissioned also.
5) Anybody ever think of an emergency natural convection cooling design?
6) Remember, without TMI most of us road-techs would be saying, "Would you like fries with that?"

1) cost and safety. trickle charging more and more massive batteries requires better cooling and hydrogen removal systems to handle them. I think its more pertinent to focus on diesels and passive safety systems).
2) is there no provision for this already?
3) Hydrogen explosions tend to remove any roof in progress. If you are talking about ANOTHER containment, see the beginning part of point 1.
4) we dont have any 6 unit reactor plants. Palo Verde has 3, spread out pretty well. Not sure thats going to be an issue here. Im sure you are speaking of FUTURE plants of course, but we also dont live on an island the size of california with 150,000,000 people. Real estate's not our pressing demand...
5) its called a "PWR" or "ABWR"... all of our GEN III plants have a ton of safety features built in... its been thought of... a BWR IV plant thats damn near 40 years old is not going to operate the same fashion as the "new guns".
6) without TMI, it would have happened somewhere else.... moot point.

[DJ@Retired]

How about better safety systems and buildings for the spent fuel pools. Ours have a tin roof.

There are several quick lessons I can think of:

1) Longer life on backup batteries
2) Move Diesels inside secure buildinf, if not already
3) Put a real roof on the reactor building
4) Spread your nuke plants out. Don't put all your eggs in one basket. As of today the main building (I assume a common admin building) has a dose rate of 94 mr/hr with 15 mr/hr at the main gate. This is making it difficult to operate the unaffected units, which officials are hinting at may be decommissioned also.
5) Anybody ever think of an emergency natural convection cooling design?
6) Remember, without TMI most of us road-techs would be saying, "Would you like fries with that?"

[Cycoticpenguin]

How about better safety systems and buildings for the spent fuel pools. Ours have a tin roof.

Lol I almost asked what plant you worked at haha.

Ours survived several tornados and massive hurricanes. They had to replace the entire turbine building "containment" because it got torn apart. spent fuel building was a-ok. O.o

[Cherenkov]

The BWR I work at has blowout panels to protect the reactor building and fuel floor. Did the Japanese NOT have these?

-C

[Nuclear Renaissance]

Ours survived several tornados and massive hurricanes. They had to replace the entire turbine building "containment" because it got torn apart. spent fuel building was a-ok. O.o

As I recall, your plant "survived" a Cat 2 weakening to 1 (Gustav), and it tore up your turbine building "containment" because it is nothing more that corrugated steel over a steel I-beam skeleton, the same design that houses a BWR 4 refuel floor. Probably not "massive", and not much to brag about.

[Nuclear Renaissance]

The BWR I work at has blowout panels to protect the reactor building and fuel floor. Did the Japanese NOT have these?

Yes, Fukushima has a standard Mark I containment. Trouble is, blowout panels are designed to limit internal pressure from modest external drops seen during things like tornadoes. Every possible panel blew out in the Unit 1 hydrogen detonation, and the more violent Unit 3 detonation even took out some of the structural steel and reinforced concrete.

[Nuclear Renaissance]

There are several quick lessons I can think of:

1) Longer life on backup batteries

***Already accomplished in many plants by installing diesel generators that tie directly into the battery chargers - problem is this is not an NRC-enforced mod, and many of these DGs are not seismic/flood qualified

2) Move Diesels inside secure buildinf, if not already

***DG buildings are Class IE seismic / flood buildings

3) Put a real roof on the reactor building

***BWR/6 designs and beyond have moved away from this already

4) Spread your nuke plants out. Don't put all your eggs in one basket. As of today the main building (I assume a common admin building) has a dose rate of 94 mr/hr with 15 mr/hr at the main gate. This is making it difficult to operate the unaffected units, which officials are hinting at may be decommissioned also.

***valid point due to "common mode failure" argument.

5) Anybody ever think of an emergency natural convection cooling design?

***ESBWR nat circ post-accident cooling works like this, so does AP-1000 containment cooling

[Cherenkov]

Yes, Fukushima has a standard Mark I containment. Trouble is, blowout panels are designed to limit internal pressure from modest external drops seen during things like tornadoes. Every possible panel blew out in the Unit 1 hydrogen detonation, and the more violent Unit 3 detonation even took out some of the structural steel and reinforced concrete.

Good points, thank you.

-C

[Sun Dog]

What do you believe will be the "fallout" in reference to how US Nuke plants are viewed by the general public following Japan's tragedies?

One fallout was evident when the CNO of PG&E requested a delay in the license extension application for Diablo Canyon.

[namlive]

Today the Augusta Chronicle printed an article claiming TVA is rethinking using MOX fuel in the wake of Japan.

[yalikedags?]

I assume that is due to Diablo Canyon's location? Or are there more politically driven issues?

[Cycoticpenguin]

Today the Augusta Chronicle printed an article claiming TVA is rethinking using MOX fuel in the wake of Japan.

Ill believe it when it happens .

[namlive]

It has happened. They are rethinking it. They are awaiting input from Japan to see what, if any, effect the MOX fuel had.

[yalikedags?]

You knew it was coming...

Although, you can applaude them for being proactive in their attempt to garner attention/help, is it really justifiable to put it on the same level as Chernobyl? Sure, it is a level 7, same as a Chernobyl but it seems as this is just a ploy to seduce the media, not trying to downplay their tragedy at all, but still... A 376 foot pop fly just over leftfield wall is not as impressive as a 520 foot towering blast to center is, but they are both homeruns, I guess that is their viewing???

"Tokyo-Japan raised the crisis level at its crippled nuclear plant Tuesday to a severity on par with the 1986 Chernobyl disaster, citing high overall radiation leaks that have contaminated the air, tap water, vegetables and seawater."

[navynukedoc]

"Tokyo-Japan raised the crisis level at its crippled nuclear plant Tuesday to a severity on par with the 1986 Chernobyl disaster, citing high overall radiation leaks that have contaminated the air, tap water, vegetables and seawater."

If you are going to quote or use reference, please cite the source as well.

[yalikedags?]

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/04/11/reports-japan-decides-raise-nuclear-crisis-alert-level-7-highest-equal/

April 12, Associated Press

[bismuth-210]

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/20_21.html

[Pman52]

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/20_21.html

Old news....  TEPCO was planning to invest in STP's projected additional ABWR units prior to the Fukushima accident. 

Now that TEPCO backed out it's obviously not realistic considering they had an eventual 18% stake in the project.

For the record...STP is still operating...

http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/C-Tepco_buys_into_STP_expansion_project-1005105.html