NUPOC instructor to NR Engineer

[anonymity]

Hello,

I am an undergrad math and ME student going to a state university. I am entering my second (of five) years, and have finished all of the calculus sequences (1 through 3), and both calc based general physics courses (mechanics and E&M), with As in them all (except possibly E&M, which is teetering on the borderline of an A and a B currently).

I have been interested in nupoc since I heard about it in my freshman year, and originally wanted to go SUBs, but have decided that it's not for me (I want to do something technical -- ie naval reactors -- or something which will allow me to stay in a technical setting while in the navy -- ie go to grad school part time while teaching at NPS).

Naval Reactors is my first choice, instructor second. I currently have a 3.7 GPA, but that is in a large part due to the fact I got Bs in both of my my gen-ed (non technical) classes last year.

So my questions are as follows:

1) What is the likelyhood of a qualified candidate being transferred from Instructor to NR Engineer? Assume that the navy has a relative need. Currently, navynupoc.blogspot has this posted

      "If you are a current NUPOC submarine volunteer that meets those wickets and would like to switch to NR
       then let your recruiter know. "

So it is clear that under certain circumstances this happens/is a likely outcome, but how about in NORMAL circumstances, how likely is it that someone who wants to transfer from instructor to NR (who is qualified) actually gets switched?  As I said above, NR is my first choice, but you have to be within 18 months of graduating for NR. Instructor/SWO/SUB candidates can apply 30 months from graduation. Financially, it doesnt make very much sense to wait until 18 months and apply for NR, get rejected, and then apply for instructor and only get paid for 10 months or so.

2) HOW MUCH does school matter for naval reactors? Everyone says that it does matter to a degree, but no one says how much.

3) I am double majoring in ME and Math. Will this help my application, and if so, how much?

4) Does NR care about any academic research you have done (published in a journal or otherwise)?

edit: for #2, by "school" i mean how "good" the school you go to is...

[Papa Nuc]

I'm not speaking from experience here, but from your gpa and courses it looks like you are well qualified to go for NR.  Whether you make it or not depends on how you do at the interview...  Financially speaking, you have to do whatever makes sense for your situation.

[HydroDave63]

Financially, it doesnt make very much sense to wait until 18 months and apply for NR, get rejected, and then apply for instructor and only get paid for 10 months or so.

Sounds like NR used that very logic to weed out those that bunt from those that swing for the bleachers. Only the Ted Williams players need apply to NR? 

[anonymity]

Sounds like NR used that very logic to weed out those that bunt from those that swing for the bleachers. Only the Ted Williams players need apply to NR? 

  and who says I dont?

But in all seriousness, I know that my GPA is in the general sense good enough, but that doesnt by any means mean that i'm LOCKED into it. And I still have a year and a half before I can apply (not that I expect my GPA to go down..). I just dont think that anyone can assume that they are guaranteed a spot at naval reactors (atleast given what I have been told about its selectivity.

Right down to it, all I want to know is if it would be stupid to apply for instructor under the expectation of switching to NR. I know this is something I should ask my recruiter when the time comes (and that it likely WOULD be stupid), but I was just hoping to get some opinions from you guys for a more instantanious answer.

Thanks helping (both now and in the past -- this forum is a godsend).

[GatorNuke]

Speaking from experience, although my switch occurred after reporting for duty as an instructor, I think it will be possible to switch if you meet the criteria for an NR position.  I was an instructor at Nuke School when it was in Orlando in the 80s.  An opening came up at NR, I applied, and was selected for it after 3 years at Nuclear Power School.  I did have to extend my commitment by one year.  Thus, NR will not reject you simply because you didn't come to them first.  On the other hand, NR won't take you either if they don't have a need.   No recruiter will be able to predict NR's needs, so if they tell you that you can definitely switch, I wouldn't believe them.  If you decide to take the risk, be prepared to serve your full commitment as an instructor because the opportunity to switch will never be promised and may never arise.  Best of luck to you!

[anonymity]

Speaking from experience, although my switch occurred after reporting for duty as an instructor, I think it will be possible to switch if you meet the criteria for an NR position.  I was an instructor at Nuke School when it was in Orlando in the 80s.  An opening came up at NR, I applied, and was selected for it after 3 years at Nuclear Power School.  I did have to extend my commitment by one year.  Thus, NR will not reject you simply because you didn't come to them first.  On the other hand, NR won't take you either if they don't have a need.   No recruiter will be able to predict NR's needs, so if they tell you that you can definitely switch, I wouldn't believe them.  If you decide to take the risk, be prepared to serve your full commitment as an instructor because the opportunity to switch will never be promised and may never arise.  Best of luck to you!

I couldn't ask for better advice, even if I wanted to. It looks like I have some thinking to do.

Just out of curiosity, what sorts of things did you teach during your time at NPS? I have read that NUPOC instructors generally teach enlisted folks (and get 0 respect, plus or minus .01%), but have not heard anything about what they teach.

I likely varies, but I'd still be interested to hear your experience.

[goobs22xx]

I couldn't ask for better advice, even if I wanted to. It looks like I have some thinking to do.

Just out of curiosity, what sorts of things did you teach during your time at NPS? I have read that NUPOC instructors generally teach enlisted folks (and get 0 respect, plus or minus .01%), but have not heard anything about what they teach.

I likely varies, but I'd still be interested to hear your experience.

Here's a list of the Power School curriculum. I don't want to go into any kind of specifics because I'd prefer to stay as far away as possible from NNPP related: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_Power_School#Curriculum

I'm pretty sure I remember Direct Input Officers teaching in every department on the enlisted side.

As far as respect goes, I don't know if you're talking from the people you work for/with or the students. I know a lot of students bagged on the DIO instructors when they weren't around, but our classroom environment was always professional. The respect wasn't one of military rank, but was definitely there from an instructor/student perspective. My best DIO instructors embraced their differences and taught like the better college professors that I've had instead of trying to act militarily.

If you're talking about the lack of respect from above, well, yea... I was Staff Pickup instructor at NPTU so I kind of know where you're coming from. Accept that you will be a second class citizen in this seemingly bizarre military caste system but choose to work and excel in spite of it. When people assume that I'm going to do poorly at something due to some preconceived notion of theirs, it just becomes that much easier to smash their expectations. You may have to deal with some glass ceilings 'cause you're just a "dumb DIO", just let it roll off and embrace the opportunities that you do have. You don't ever know what doors will open up.

Glass ceilings are just that: glass. You can get through them if you try hard enough. Just don't fall into the trap of becoming a jaded wuss who doesn't get their way. As soon as you give in to self pity, your chances with NR (or whatever next-move you want to go for) could very likely be well out of reach due to your attitude and the effect it has on your performance.

Be careful trying to "game" the system. If you can't deal with the idea of being an instructor for whatever that commitment is, then don't apply. This is the same song and dance a lot of enlisted guys go through where they take something they don't really want (enlisting) to try to achieve what they do (commission/college/whatever) and then get really upset when their plans don't work out how they thought it should.

But if you're looking for just a straight answer, I'd say go for it. Being an NPS instructor is a pretty sweet gig, by every account I've heard. What's the worst that you're out if things don't work out? Four years but scored some free college with a chance to get the job you really want (NR)in the process? Seems like a no brainer to me, but hell, I enlisted because I was in a much worse spot than you find yourself, so I wouldn't even know what to do with prospects like you have.

Just my $.02 (or 2 bucks at this point)

[GatorNuke]

There's definitely some truth in what goobs22xx had to say with respect to the respect question.  But, it's really no different than any other large organization.  I never felt disrespected at NPS even though I was a DIO.  In those days, DIOs were assigned to teach enlisted subjects first, but could move after about a year to the officer side.  The subjects are the same, but the enlisted subjects are taught without any higher math (i.e., calculus) whereas the officer courses assume everyone has had calculus and therefore, the course can be on a more college level.  I think it was great to go through the enlisted side first because what I learned in college really sunk in after qualifying to teach.  I taught enlisted thermodynamics, fluid flow, heat transfer (known as HTFF) and mechanical theory (known as MTMO) and then transferred to the officer side to teach the same.  I transferred back to the enlisted side to assume the director position over the HTFF/MTMO department before trasferring to NR.  When I left NR to become a civilian, my replacement was a DIO Instructor from nuclear power school.  In fact, I replaced a DIO instructor when I went there.  Would have stayed, but on a Navy salary back then, the cost of living was just too high to live well in the DC area.

We had enlisted nukes teaching alongside of us and they were very professional, helpful, and never disrespectful.  The few DIO instructors who had problems with respect were those who had the big egos, e.g., I'm an engineer, so I'm smarter than you attitude.  The students pick up on that really fast and give no mercy to the instructor.

If you really need the money for school, it's a great deal to have someone give you a paycheck for two years for doing nothing, then get a commission immediately upon graduation, and go off to 'knife and fork' school in Newport, RI for 6 weeks to learn a little bit about being an officer.  But, if you don't need the money for school (i.e., mom and dad are picking up the tab) and you are being a responsible child and student and not abusing their generosity, I'd wait and see what the civilian nuclear business is doing closer to graduation.  Southern is committed to building 2 AP1000s, SCANA is close behind them, and Progress Energy has plans for 2 more, along with NextEra in Florida and Duke somewhere in the Carolinas.  In other words, there may be some really great opportunities outside the Navy as well in nuclear. If you can get in with an AE firm or one of the nuclear vendors, you can get some really valuable experience.  But, I don't want to discourage the navy either. It was good to me and for me!

Since leaving the utility that I worked for after leaving the Navy, I now own my business and have foreign customers.  Although two larger companies are now entering my market and driving me out (you gotta love capitalism and competition even when on the losing side because it just means new opportuntiies await), I've had a great 9 years or so working as a consultant with many domestic and a few foreign customers.  Don't be afraid to take some risks and always give more and work harder than you peers.  It pays off.

Did you mention your school and major?

[Gamecock]

There are currently at least 5 former DIO's at NR HeadQuarters...and two more who are still part or NR working elsewhere in the program.

Cheers,
GC

[anonymity]

I'm double majoring in ME and math, gator.

As far as paying for school goes, it's not my main reason for applying. I go to a pretty affordable school and scholarships are picking up most of the tab (I go to UND-- I read an article in the wall street journal recently about my school and NDSU, and how all of these kids across the country are going there because its so cheap but still really respectable)..I live in minnesota, too, and there's a reciprocity deal set up between most of the mid-west states...so i'm paying in state tuition to top it off. A big part of it is having the security, though (and a job IMMEDIATELY after graduating doesnt hurt either).

To Goobs (about "gaming the system"):

Thats precisely what I meant when I said that i've got some thinking to do -- I'm not sure if I would be content spending the full obliged time as an instructor (and at the same time not sure that I would be discontent -- I simply don't know enough about it or what my priorities will be after graduating to convince myself). This is something I have to figure out. I can however say that this:

           What's the worst that you're out if things don't work out? Four years but scored some free college with a chance to get the job you really want (NR)in the   
           process?

was my exact thought. But on the other side of it, maybe that's the wrong mindset.  Maybe I should just go for the bleachers (as Hydrodave so touchingly put it;)) and see what happens. If it doesn't work out then I can reevaluate my options. This option is still 100 fold better than what most graduates get (in my opinion). Instead of graduating, applying, getting rejected, and THEN reevaluating, I get a chance to go through the whole ordeal a year and a half before I even graduate (assuming rejection). Not a bad experience, either, if you ask me...

So I guess I'll have to wait and see (and think a bit, too).

Thanks for the help everyone (particularly GatorNuke, as it seems that you registered to help -- I appreciate it.)

It's nice to know that it is POSSIBLE. It was also a particularly nice reminder not to trust everything my recruiter says (when that time comes).

Thanks again.
-anonymous