Message To Ohio Electricity Customers -- Stop Closing Nuclear Plants

[Marlin]

Message To Ohio Electricity Customers -- Stop Closing Nuclear Plants


https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2019/06/14/message-to-ohio-electricity-customers-stop-closing-nuclear-plants/#2d488a884d3b

[Mounder]

The gas companies are advertising and hard-selling the notion that First Energy will be take corporate bonuses from the dollars collected if the Bill passes. Its sad that the wind and solar energy groups are already enjoying the subsidizing efforts and are looking the other way. Just add something to the bill to impede any profit-taking by First Energy.

[atomicarcheologist]

They are doing the same thing in PA, running ads on every radio station and in most newspapers. Sure would be nice for the nuclear power industry to get in the mud and fight.

[RDTroja]

Same old story... there is no 'Nuclear Power Industry' only a minor subset of the 'Electricity Generation Industry' that only accounts for 20% (and falling) of our national capacity. The way to promote nuclear is to compare it to the other 80% and, in the process, show how bad the traditional methods of generating power are. If you owned a utility would you rather replace the 20% that the public already fears or the 80% that they don't know well enough to fear?

[Mounder]

They run clips of billowing steam from cooling towers as a negative connotation against nuclear power, as if the water vapor is something covertly hazardous.  A tiny bit funny, but mostly sad

[GLW]

Same old story... there is no 'Nuclear Power Industry' only a minor subset of the 'Electricity Generation Industry' that only accounts for 20% (and falling) of our national capacity. The way to promote nuclear is to compare it to the other 80% and, in the process, show how bad the traditional methods of generating power are. If you owned a utility would you rather replace the 20% that the public already fears or the 80% that they don't know well enough to fear?

in the big picture there is more fear (and control) to be had with closing the nuke plants,....

if you close the plants the only viably reliable alternative is natural gas,....

with natural gas the emissions will climb,....

with climbing emissions you stoke "climate change" hysteria,...

with hysteria you can pass ever more laws and ever more control over people's daily lives,....

including "sin taxes" for those who contribute more than their "fair share" to climate change but can afford to do so,...

you don't get any of that with nuclear,...

[Marlin]

with natural gas the emissions will climb,....

Maybe the perception but not in fact.

Chart: American CO2 Emissions Are WAY Down Due To Fracking

America's carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions have fallen 12 percent since 2005, due to increased natural gas production from hydraulic fracturing, or fracking, according to a report published Monday by the Energy Information Administration (EIA).

https://dailycaller.com/2016/05/09/chart-american-co2-emissions-are-way-down-due-to-fracking/

[GLW]

Maybe the perception but not in fact.

Chart: American CO2 Emissions Are WAY Down Due To Fracking

America's carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions have fallen 12 percent since 2005, due to increased natural gas production from hydraulic fracturing, or fracking, according to a report published Monday by the Energy Information Administration (EIA).

https://dailycaller.com/2016/05/09/chart-american-co2-emissions-are-way-down-due-to-fracking/

okay, so I read the article and by your logic when natural gas from fracking replaces coal generated electricity (as per the article) then emissions per generated megawatt go down,....

and when natural gas from fracking replaces nuclear generated electricity then again the emissions per generated megawatt will go down even further?!?

[Marlin]

okay, so I read the article and by your logic when natural gas from fracking replaces coal generated electricity (as per the article) then emissions per generated megawatt go down,....

and when natural gas from fracking replaces nuclear generated electricity then again the emissions per generated megawatt will go down even further?!?

with climbing emissions you stoke "climate change" hysteria,...

What climbing emissions? It is dropping nuke or no nuke.

[atomicarcheologist]

This article is the type that makes staticians look bad. Maybe I missed the reference mark of what the dropping emissions was measured against, but was it per gigawatt generation of all electric power production, carbon generation power production, or simply U S.A. emissions in total?

[GLW]

This article is the type that makes staticians look bad. Maybe I missed the reference mark of what the dropping emissions was measured against, but was it per gigawatt generation of all electric power production, carbon generation power production, or simply U S.A. emissions in total?

....The EIA estimates that roughly 68 percent of the falling CO2 emissions are due to the switch from coal to natural gas.....

[GLW]

What climbing emissions? It is dropping nuke or no nuke.

then there's no emissions arguement for nukes,...

except as jobs programs for nukeworkers,...

[Marlin]

except as jobs programs for nukeworkers,...

You say that like it's a bad thing 

[atomicarcheologist]

....The EIA estimates that roughly 68 percent of the falling CO2 emissions are due to the switch from coal to natural gas.....

My bad for skimming the article. But, I probably already has a bias, unforgivable, as this article is narrow in focus. Only dealing with a small segment and is three years old.
Newer news:

Overall, the Rhodium Group report suggests that direct building-related emissions—including natural gas burned onsite for heating and cooking—increased by about 10 percent last year, hitting their highest levels since 2004.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/u-s-emissions-in-2018-saw-the-second-largest-spike-since-1996/

Transportation (28.9 percent of 2017 greenhouse gas emissions) – The transportation sector generates the largest share of greenhouse gas emissions.
https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/sources-greenhouse-gas-emissions

[peteshonkwiler]

Back on topic

http://ohiocitizen.org/day-of-reckoning-nears-for-ohio-nuclear-bailout-bill/

[Marlin]

This article is the type that makes staticians look bad. Maybe I missed the reference mark of what the dropping emissions was measured against, but was it per gigawatt generation of all electric power production, carbon generation power production, or simply U S.A. emissions in total?

My bad for skimming the article. But, I probably already has a bias, unforgivable, as this article is narrow in focus. Only dealing with a small segment and is three years old.
Newer news:

Overall, the Rhodium Group report suggests that direct building-related emissions—including natural gas burned onsite for heating and cooking—increased by about 10 percent last year, hitting their highest levels since 2004.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/u-s-emissions-in-2018-saw-the-second-largest-spike-since-1996/

Transportation (28.9 percent of 2017 greenhouse gas emissions) – The transportation sector generates the largest share of greenhouse gas emissions.
https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/sources-greenhouse-gas-emissions

Speaking of statistics a one year spike compared to an average over a period of time is a bit deceptive. The ten year graph shows some increases as well.

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."

- Mark Twain


Somewhat applicable is another Mark Twain quote.




"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed; if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed."


 

[Marlin]

Ohio Senate struggles to revise nuclear subsidy bill amid intense political maneuvering

https://www.utilitydive.com/news/ohio-senate-struggles-to-revise-nuclear-subsidy-bill-amid-intense-political/557562/

[Marlin]

How (un)profitable are Ohio's two nuclear plants? FirstEnergy Solutions says it can't tell the public

https://www.cleveland.com/open/2019/06/how-unprofitable-are-ohios-two-nuclear-plants-firstenergy-solutions-says-it-cant-tell-the-public.html

[atomicarcheologist]

Speaking of statistics a one year spike compared to an average over a period of time is a bit deceptive. The ten year graph shows some increases as well.

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."

- Mark Twain


Somewhat applicable is another Mark Twain quote.




"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed; if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed."
Awe

 

Pretty amazing that transportation still leads in emissions. Especially when we've been forced into ethanol blending for decades and this was to solve our problems. But it still leads, now we are to believe that gas turbines are the answer with nuclear power plants being a sacrificial financial aspect in order to a accomplish this.  🤭

[Marlin]

Pretty amazing that transportation still leads in emissions. Especially when we've been forced into ethanol blending for decades and this was to solve our problems. But it still leads, now we are to believe that gas turbines are the answer with nuclear power plants being a sacrificial financial aspect in order to a accomplish this.  🤭

Saving Nukes is a short term fix. Even if the US managed zero emissions CO2 would still climb globally because of emerging nations (China, India, etc.) Best option for the future in my opinion is a Hydrogen economy which would put Nukes up front again with newer generations of plants. I have not heard anything in a while about the nuke to be built in Idaho with the primary purpose of producing hydrogen, Bush administration I think so it has been a while.

My 

[atomicarcheologist]

Saving Nukes is a short term fix. Even if the US managed zero emissions CO2 would still climb globally because of emerging nations (China, India, etc.) Best option for the future in my opinion is a Hydrogen economy which would put Nukes up front again with newer generations of plants. I have not heard anything in a while about the nuke to be built in Idaho with the primary purpose of producing hydrogen, Bush administration I think so it has been a while.

My 

There is no long term fix.
It was during Obama's term, and doesn't require a Special Hydrogen Accumulating Reactor Evolution (SHARE🤣).

Khamis said scientists and economists at IAEA and elsewhere are working intensively to determine how current nuclear power reactors — 435 are operational worldwide — and future nuclear power reactors could be enlisted in hydrogen production.

https://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/pressroom/newsreleases/2012/march/nuclear-power-plants-can-produce-hydrogen-to-fuel-the-hydrogen-economy.html

But, nukes are the way to go to have plenty of power with minimal acreage, in order to mininize CO2 production.

[peteshonkwiler]

Back on topic
https://www-cleveland-com.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/www.cleveland.com/open/2019/06/ohio-senate-panel-rolls-back-proposed-nuclear-plant-subsidies.html?outputType=amp

[tagline]

It is not looking good for Perry or D-B.