Is 2 years for RO too soon?

[bheinz]

I was in the Navy (MM/ELT) for 8.5yrs. I have been working at a BWR now for about 2 years as a NLO. There is a license class starting in the spring of '09 and I am one of the ones that can be eligible to go. My question is, "Is 2 years of NLO experience enough to try for LO?" The general opinion I get from the shift managers here is if you get offered go. I have no question that if I focused I could pass the class. But I was wondering if it would be better to get a few more years of hands on in the plant before I try to make the journey upstairs to the Control Room. Or if it really doesn't matter. Can some licensed operators give me their two cents on this matter please? Mainly did the time you had in the plant before your Control Room days really impact your training, or the job you did after you got your license?

[Creeker]

You wrote: "I have no question that if I focused I could pass the class."

I'm in the middle of an SRO class right now.  I had a 20 year background, RO, PPWS, PPWO...  Let me tell you, Frau, either I've drank one too many beers, or dementia is setting in early.  It is really tough, and for me, at least, success is by no means guaranteed.

[HydroDave63]

success is by no means guaranteed.

( or would that be +deltaK/K  for that posting!

[Fermi2]

You're ready now. A year of NLO experience is enough. I was in RO Training 20 months after hiring in as a NLO. I had an SRO License 7 years after hiring in as an NLO and am SM after 9 years. I'm not certain what Creekers background was outside the Navy but your 2 years as an NLO is worth much more than 20 years Navy time.
If your SM says you're ready then you're ready.

Mike

[Creeker]

My backgorund was I&C for 3 years before coming to OPS.  I would agree with Mike on this one. (depending upon how much you've progressed in your quals as an NLO)  I'll assume if the SM has recommended you, you've probably made good use of your time there.

[thenuttyneutron]

There is a big difference between license and non-licensed duties.  This will become obvious after just a few weeks of training.  You have all you need to move on to the next level.  I started a license class last March with 33 months of NLO time and can see that the NLO experience will be very valuable to me, but not in the ways you might think.

Your first test will be the GFES.  I made a 96 on my GFES while suffering through a kidney stone for the June 4, 2008 test.  Only my test preps saw me through that very tough time.  If I were you, grab the GFES prep material now and learn the concepts before you leave for class.  I know you will have plenty of backshift nights with nothing to do but look at the material.

When and only after you have learned the concepts look at the test bank and old tests from the NRC website. Drill yourself till you can't stand to look at it anymore.  Take the old tests under test conditions a few times a week leading up to your test date.  The mental effort I had to put into taking the GFES test felt like it did not exist.  I had drilled (self study) so much that I just knew the answers by reflex without much thought.  I could explain the theory etc to you if asked, but that never even crossed my mind during the test.  I just "knew" what the correct answer was.  This system seems to have worked well because my class GFES average was about a 93 and they did about the same thing as me.

Systems training is different.  I have studied the TS design basis material, system descriptions, all the stuff in the OPS drawings, the control room layout/indications & switches, and procedures.  This gave me a high score of 92.5% on my last test (87% overall average).  You have all you need from in the field as a NLO.

I am now finishing up my systems training in my class with a big advantage over my engineering peers.  As a fully qualified NLO I know plant locations, important valve info (location, how it works, how to take manual control over it), where the piping in the plant goes through etc.  In my JPMs I will still have that edge, but that is about where the gravy train ends.

You still have to know command/control of casualties, prioritize problems, and operate the plant with limited information in a safe manner.  You will feel almost like a robot with the methodical way you are expected to act in dealing with a list of problems thrown at you.

[bheinz]

Thanks a lot you guys. I was just wondering if this was too soon. But from the post here and the PMs, I'm taking that 2 yrs should be enough. Thanks again!

[Len61]

OK, My 2 cents worth.
Given that 80% of the new SRO's are instants with no plant specific knowledge, you are heads and shoulders above them.
That being said, those same SRO's will rely upon you for guidance on everything from valve locations, to how things actually work, as compared to what the lesson plan says.
I didn't really mean to get off topic, but.....
The problem lies in that most utilities (at least the one I work for ) are so far behind the curve in hiring, that the traditional path to being an SRO has been abandoned for the quick path. Don't get me wrong, must of the people that are hired for instant SRO are quality individuals, but just think how much better they would be if they had actually worked in the plant for a couple of years.
You are ready, just be aware that you will probably know more about how the plant operates than the SRO you work for.

[bheinz]

OK, My 2 cents worth.
Given that 80% of the new SRO's are instants with no plant specific knowledge, you are heads and shoulders above them...
You are ready, just be aware that you will probably know more about how the plant operates than the SRO you work for.

Amen to that I can see that now in our plant with our new SRO position, Field Support Supervisors. It seems that lately when I'm sent out in the plant to do a job I never have done before, and I call the FSS for a peer, it seems that they have never done it either. It's a learning situation for both of us. Not really a good idea, but they have a license, right???

[thenuttyneutron]

Go to class and do your best. 

What is the worst thing that can happen? 

The worst thing I can think of is you don't get a license and end up where you are currently at now.  The only thing good about not going is you will never fail if you never try.  Vanity makes a very bad reaon for making a decision.  There is no good reason not to go if given the chance.

[B.PRESGROVE]

I have a question along these lines.  An aquaintence of mine went through SRO class about two years ago and failed to maintain his grade average for the class, and was fired.  Is that a normal practice?  I would hope if you wash out you just go back to your old job to learn more and try again at a future date. 

[thenuttyneutron]

At my plant, I have heard of only one guy who failed out and was fired.  The situation was abnormal.  The story goes, he had a license at a previous nuke plant.  He never studied or put forth any effort to learn and make decent grades.  He was let go because of his work ethic.

If I fail out of license class, I will just go back on shift as a fully qualified NLO.  The SRO trainees get placed in another job and are sometimes given the chance to go through class again.  I have also heard of people retaking the NRC test after 3 months if you were close to an 80.

I have heard of people getting through the class because their attitude was good even with border line grades.  If you clam up and argue with the instructors, you will not make it.  They can decide that you are not worth their time.  Once you have lost the support of your instructors, you are almost always going to fail.

[B.PRESGROVE]

   Sounds like my college classes that I had.  I may have to dig a little deeper to see if his attitude had anything to do with it.  Thanks for the info.

[PapaBear765]

So would it be damaging to one's chances of being hired to try to steer away from direct SRO in order to go the NLO route for a better understanding of the plant?  Would the interviewer think this guy is crazy or naive and move on to someone else who will jump at the direct SRO offer?

[B.PRESGROVE]

To ask a question about direct hire, Ive only know folks with engieering degrees or nav experience who get direct hire.  In my humble but not so important opinion I would think that someone trying to get direct hire without those afore mentioned quals would not be considered at all just due to the course work.  Maybe i missed the mark, but being an ex-8 year-HP I was told because of my lack of ops experiance I would not stand a chance.  So that is why im applying all over the SE for ops jobs to get the experience to get to the SRO position one day.

[thenuttyneutron]

Frau, I gave some good advice earlier for the GFES.  The GFES will help you on any path to a license.  If your desire is for the SRO path,  I would also HIGHLY recommend you also get some kind of technical degree that is ABET accredited in anything before the class gears up.  It does not matter what the degree is in, as long as it is something ABET accredited & technical.  There are some requirements for being the STA/ Shift Engineer.  It does not require a degree, only a certain amount of math and calculus based physics.  For simplicity I think most employers just want that degree because you will be eligible by default for STA/SE.

I am not familiar with the process of obtaining a degree from Excelsior, but I have seen some of my Navy coworkers working on it.  They did not seem to have much trouble at all in doing the course work and working their shifts.

[bheinz]

Nutty Neutron, I don't have an intrest in SRO...... yet. The class that I was intrested in was RO. I don't feel that I would be ready for SRO yet, seeing how I've only been at this plant for 2 yrs.  Let me get a few more years under my belt before I think about wanting to sit in the Big chair.    And thanks  for all the GFES info. I will def. take your info and put it to good use. 

[Fermi2]

Trust me, you're ready. Also if you need any help just message me here or via email. I'm an ex BWR Shift Manager and can help you with most of what you need to know.

Mike

[bheinz]

Thanks BZ, I'll do that.

[Smooth Operator]

Good luck Frau,

Based on your timeline, we appear to have been stomping around the training pipeline at the same time.

I was in Charleston 97-2000 MM/ELT/SPU and of course Orlando before that.

Have fun in RO training. I'll be there in a couple of years.

I'm bout half-way trough NLO training, myself.

Jason

[bheinz]

Thanks, but it's not definite yet. We don't class up till April '09.

[Fermi2]

Screw GFES. It's impossible to fail a GFES Exam. If you want to be successful you need to start learning systems, develope a study plan for systems and think systems constantly. You also need to develope a methodology for answering systems questions. Everything in the course is applied systems so if you don't understand them you're screwed.

Mike

[M1Ark]

No.  A fully qualified AO w/ an outage under your belt is ready for RO class. (W/ SM Concurrence)

M1Ark

[wolfxoman]

I guess that if you believe your ready go for it.  Just what is the route you would be able to take if by chance you don't make it.  I know at my station if you go for RO and don't make it you can go back to being a NLO and try the RO class again at a later date if you so desire or just stay a NLO.  How is it for your station?

[rlbinc]

OK, My 2 cents worth.
Given that 80% of the new SRO's are instants with no plant specific knowledge, you are heads and shoulders above them.

Dang Skippy. NLOs have enough in plant knowledge to help on the walkthrough. You have less to learn than an Instant SRO.
Go for it. Bust it. You'll make it.