If I Fail Nuke School

[Gamecock]

My son starts MM "A" school at Charleston tomorrow and the last school day is July 9th.
He has confirmed that his nuke power school has been shortened to 5 months. Same curriculum, but 5 months, not 6. Needs of the fleet. It's gunna be tough. I don't have the dates for that yet.

Nuke school has not been shortened to 5 months.

Cheers,
GC

[Bawb]

Thank you for your reply Gamecock. I am learning how rumors a a part of  military life. If I post them I am part of the problem. I apologize.

[crusemm]

Bawb, the passing of scuttlebutt is a tried and true Naval tradition.  Just like swearing, tattoos, and drinking, it will continue as long as there are Sailors and vessels for them to sail on.  For a humorouis look at one aspect of Navy life, check out Hey Shipwreck.  One of the episodes, I thing Season 1 episode 2 or 3, has a "conversation" with a Nuke.  Hilarious.
Have a day 

[Bawb]

Thanks for the positive strokes guys. My son started MM "a" school yesterday. PT at 0530 and study ends at 1730. He is tired but he loves it. As an E-3 I figure he is making about $3.75 an hour plus benefits. What he is getting in real life experience serving our country is invaluable. To him and to me.
Prior to joining he was working for me , an electrical contractor (work's been slow lately) , making $15 an hour cash. He didn't have  care in the world. Or so I thought.

[Jechtm]

A school isn't really all that bad for us Fireman. I am in a few classes ahead of him, 3.79 Avg 7 weeks in. I says its not bad because we really only have one subject at a time, easy to manage. Not to say we don't learn a lot in just 5 days, but none the less A school should not be a problem for him.

My brother is T Track now (waiting for Power school to start up May 25th, Hes an ET3).
Power school will be much more challenging though for sure, can't wait for the advancement and crow .

~Jecht

PS. For you 'older' nukes, do they really gauge how much you study as the amount of effort you put in towards being a nuke student? They say they'd rather have a 2.5 student who try's his hardest than a 3.8 student who puts in minimal hours. I put in 12-15 hrs a week of ACTUAL studying, while people with high tack hours (i.e. 20 -3, 25-4) usually goof off or zone out from boredom. I want to help them but group study has been secured at the moment...

I am not particularly worried about the amount of effort I'm putting forward,
just don't want to look like I am coasting through.

[crusemm]

It's not so much about the hours you put in, but the amount of effort.  By nature or previous exposure to the material, some people just get it easier than others, and really have to put in no effort.  That does not demonstrate anything other than your ability to absorb/regurgitate or that you did something at college other than drink and get laid, but not enough to keep from failing out anyway.  But some people have to work at it.  This demonstrates several things: resilience in the face of adversity, an ability to set goals and priorities, maturity, perseverance, strength of character, time management.  All of these are much much more desirable traits in the fleet than the ability to calculate the rate of acceleration of a baseball, or the MREM/HR off of a spilled bottle of 1 L with 200 Ci Co60 in it, or the Heat Transfer Coefficient of Zircalloy.  Because, if the have the first set of things (the desired traits), and they are not congenital idiots, then the second set of things (the knowledge) will come, eventually.  If those people with high study hours are not actively working to reduce those hours, then they deserve what they get.  See above about setting priorities. 

Have a Day
-Matt

[co60slr]

They say they'd rather have a 2.5 student who tries his hardest than a 3.8 student who puts in minimal hours. I put in 12-15 hrs a week of ACTUAL studying, while people with high tack hours (i.e. 20 -3, 25-4) usually goof off or zone out from boredom. I want to help them but group study has been secured at the moment...

I am not particularly worried about the amount of effort I'm putting forward,
just don't want to look like I am coasting through.

I posted something along those lines in the past, so I'll clarify.   I would rather not have a 3.80 nuke that has a perfect SAT score who is bored with the Program, puts in little effort and is constantly distracted by his/her daydreams of moving on to higher ground.   (Why didn't that person just go to college/ROTC, etc in the first place?).   Meanwhile, I've had 2.80 sailors that are happy, give 110% and make darn good watchstanders.   

Each case warrants some leadership attention.  The first, I helped into his dream college program and the second was mentored to go on and make Chief early.

Don't just "appear" to not coast.    Don't coast for yourself.  Give 110% of NOW and shoot for that next demanding duty assignment.  You will forever be assessed/evaluated on two traits:  1) Energy level, and 2) technical competence.   Do your job, do it well, care about your ship's mission, the rest is easy.

Now, for those people getting 2.80, partying on the weekends, pays more attention to his/her video games than the 6-factor formula, grumbling about your extra hours, have already made "FTN" a regular phrase (without having seen the real Navy yet)...don't worry, Darwin will win eventually.  However, even as a Chief, I would have tried to mentor this case along from being a "high school kid" to being a Professional Nuclear Operator.  Let's face it...some people choose the Navy for the wrong reasons and end up hating it for 6 years (see Navy: Getting Out threads).   I have to respect someone that wants to move on and find his/her niche in life.

For what it's worth, I enjoy reading the enthusiasm in your posts Jecht.  Keep the updates coming.

Co60

[Jechtm]

This week has been pretty interesting, learning about stuff that makes water go sizzle and swish.

Not really gonna go ahead and say much about school. Most of y'all know anyway...

I guess I can say its pretty cool 


Cant wait till ME next month!

[DDMurray]

PS. For you 'older' nukes, do they really gauge how much you study as the amount of effort you put in towards being a nuke student? They say they'd rather have a 2.5 student who try's his hardest than a 3.8 student who puts in minimal hours. I put in 12-15 hrs a week of ACTUAL studying, while people with high tack hours (i.e. 20 -3, 25-4) usually goof off or zone out from boredom. I want to help them but group study has been secured at the moment...

I am not particularly worried about the amount of effort I'm putting forward,
just don't want to look like I am coasting through.

First of all, who is they?  When you get to your boat, you'll learn to hate "they".  Your hours are one of many factors that demonstrate effort.  Nuke school is the beginning of an axiom I learned over the years, "The task will take the time allotted."  If you spend 5 hours in the building to get 3 hours worth of work/studying accomplished, then you're developing bad habits that will carry over to prototype.  Getting used to pissing away time is a recipe for disaster when you reach NPTU. 

If "they" is the fleet, they will only care that you graduated.  They will base their opinions of you on your performance – quals and becoming a technical expert in your field.  Putting in hours for hours sake is motion.  Getting your work done so you can move on to bigger and better things is action.  They are not the same thing.

[Zog]

Current numbers are 1% loss due to academics. 

1%? How things have changed in 20 years.

[Marlin]

PS. For you 'older' nukes, do they really gauge how much you study as the amount of effort you put in towards being a nuke student? They say they'd rather have a 2.5 student who try's his hardest than a 3.8 student who puts in minimal hours. I put in 12-15 hrs a week of ACTUAL studying, while people with high tack hours (i.e. 20 -3, 25-4) usually goof off or zone out from boredom. I want to help them but group study has been secured at the moment...

I am not particularly worried about the amount of effort I'm putting forward,
just don't want to look like I am coasting through.

  Mare Island had a sign over the door that said "the smartest must try as hard", our classes were segregated by background and test scores. Section one primarily high school grads, with just got in scores, got what they needed to pass the tests (still not easy) and the top section most had 3 or 4 years of college were fed as much as they could give them. Mare Island and Bainbridge alternated who developed the final comprehensive exam for NPS so each had to teach the full load. As far as academic failure the bottom third of our "A" school class was dropped even if they passed the course.
  At Prototype they were more concerned with the rate at which we qualified than the grade score, that came back to bite those who did not score in the upper half who wanted to be instructors. If you fell behind the curve at S1W you lived on site with 16 instead if 12 hour days and only went home on weekends because of the length of the bus ride.
  In five or ten years when you look back and compare to the current state of the program I am sure it will have changed just as much (may be fusion by then   ).

[Jechtm]

If you spend 5 hours in the building to get 3 hours worth of work/studying accomplished, then you're developing bad habits that will carry over to prototype.  Getting used to pissing away time is a recipe for disaster when you reach NPTU. 

That is exactly what I do not like about some of my shipmates.. they are given x amount of tack hours yet half the time they complain and slack. Like mentioned above by other posters, they'll get whats coming to them, I just hate the fact they are taking up spots for other people who want to be here.


I like this environment, and I take pride in what I am doing.

[The Inquirer]

Gotta love the ongoing conversations of might happen when the only thing you really have to do is shut up and study. Lots of people fail out of my prototype class because they get all emotional and cry because they miss their mommy. If they would have got their stuff taken care of they wouldnt be on extra hours. Now they are gone its easier for me to get checkouts!

[shehane]

I think the smartest guys I met in Nuke school were the ones that bombed out.  Some due to lack of ability and some on purpose!!  Most of them were treated better than the ones that made it and got any other school or assignment they wanted.  One guy pursued ac and refrigeration and got out after 4 or 5 years and started with Trane for a butt load of money with none of the nuke industry's bulls***.  Makes me think sometimes.

[Marlin]

I think the smartest guys I met in Nuke school were the ones that bombed out.  Some due to lack of ability and some on purpose!!  Most of them were treated better than the ones that made it and got any other school or assignment they wanted.  One guy pursued ac and refrigeration and got out after 4 or 5 years and started with Trane for a butt load of money with none of the nuke industry's bulls***.  Makes me think sometimes.

  Anheuser Busch was hiring steam plant operators when I got out. My Ex nixed it for me, I should have nixed her sooner. The pay scales and benefits there were much better than any of the Nukes at the time. Most of my shipmates did not end up in Nuke plants and most are doing very well.

If you made the cut to even start the program you have to have something going for you, you just have to find it and don't listen to the "Nay Sayers".

[ravenuke]

PS. For you 'older' nukes, do they really gauge how much you study as the amount of effort you put in towards being a nuke student? They say they'd rather have a 2.5 student who try's his hardest than a 3.8 student who puts in minimal hours. I put in 12-15 hrs a week of ACTUAL studying, while people with high tack hours (i.e. 20 -3, 25-4) usually goof off or zone out from boredom. I want to help them but group study has been secured at the moment...

I am not particularly worried about the amount of effort I'm putting forward,
just don't want to look like I am coasting through.

I put in no more than 5-7 hours per week.  They aren't going to penalize you for not needing to study as much as others.  I graduated honoman and was the class leader with a great eval from my SLPO.  You don't have to put in 15-20 hours just so that it looks like you are putting in effort.  The grade will prove that.  That would be a show of trying to be "that guy" that the Navy is so keen on us no being.  Do your best and stand out with military bearing and good grades.  On the other hand, I had one shipmate that was doing well, 3.2 student, was put on volenteer hours for it and only put in 2 hours one week and bombed the test.  For this he was put on 25-4's and had to make the hours up in just 3 days.  Just do what you need to do to be the best you can, or the Navy will do it for you.  Good luck and keep up the work.

[shehane]

The study hours depended on the section Chief.  I maintained between 3.5 and 3.6 the whole time in Nuke school and my Chief pitched a fit if my hours didn't increase each week.  I was never threatened with mandnatory or ordered hours but I knew he would chew on me every week for not putting in enough study time.

[BK3]

I don't think that 1% number is accurate at all to be honest. I've seen 4 kicked out of two classes. I suppose it could be do to the small sample size, but it seems to be the standard. In my opinion they just do not want people to be discouraged heading in.

[gim73]

Yes, nukes wind up chipping and painting.  We make coffee and definately wax floors (every patrol stripping and waxing our area!).  We generally don't clean toilets unless we are talking about our own in the barracks, or if the engine room has one.  All of us clean equipment for PMS and dive into a bilge on field days (or when LL pukes the purifiers).

There are gonna be what you consider to be 'crap jobs' to do.  Eventually you might get to start like being put on paint team rather than being in 3 section duty.  Suck it up.  Even with crap duty, most nukes have a lot less of it to deal with than our non-nuclear brethren, even though there are other balances in that equation.

Think you might fail out?  Every morning when I was in 'A' school some damn senior chief would chant the same words at me.  Attitude is life.  He then went on to describe how if you have a good attitude you'd be able to succeed in life, but if you have a piss poor attitude then you are destined to fail at everything you do.  And he would say this while he was running circles around us in florida morning weather. 

Getting on level 1 PT is perhaps the worst thing that ever happened to my attitude, and it almost cost me nuke school.  It all started when I passed the PRT, but only with a Sat.  Shortly after I was waking up with the early birds and running that path with stops for various exercises.  Every day I was losing more and more sleep and standing up in the back for all my classes.  Test scores went from great to average to wtf am I doing?  Suddenly stress is at an all time high and something needs to be done.  Some smoked, others walked down Orange Blossom Trail, and I found comfort in food.  All of these activities will have adverse effects on your PRT score.  I passed my dash for cash, and barely passed A school. 

Power school was in the summer.  Black flag days gave me enough sleep that I could actually do well in class.  I completed power school with a 3.5 and felt a lot better about myself.  Unfortunately I never got rid of those eating habits and have always had a loathing for running and squats. 

What can I really say to somebody who needs advice?  Learn to manage your time.  Sleep is not a bank, you can't just make a big deposit one day and ignore the rest.  Attitude IS life, but don't let those bastards give you a bad attitude and ruin your life.  Fight tooth and nail every step and NEVER EVER let them put you on remedial PT, IT RUINS LIVES!!!!  Relieve stress by going to the beach or something constructive, not hookers/booze/food/smokes. 

Oh yeah, I knew quite a few guys who got kicked out of the nuke pipeline and found it to be the best thing that ever happened to them.  I loved being a nuke (hated what they did to me in the pipeline, but the fleet was great) but some people are better off out in the conventional navy.  Don't worry too much about it and just give it your all.  The pipeline will be over before you know it and you will be learning how you REALLY do your job.

[jshinevar]

Let's just put it this way.  I barely passed A school with a 2.54.  I was on 40-5's in Power School.  I didn't do that bad in Prototype and on the boat I qualified EWS/EDPO as a second class.  Even if you barely make it through the pipeline no one cares afterward.  I went through school with one of these guys who could memorize like it was no one's business and he rocked all the tests in A school and Power School but when it came to hands on in Prototype the guy failed his AEA UI's.  Grades don't mean anything if you have drive and determination.  To be honest the study hours don't mean anything either, I didn't study much during my hours because there were so many of them that I was going nuts in that building, but I stuck it out and look at me now.

[co60slr]

Let's just put it this way.  I barely passed A school with a 2.54.  I was on 40-5's in Power School.  I didn't do that bad in Prototype and on the boat I qualified EWS/EDPO as a second class.  Even if you barely make it through the pipeline no one cares afterward.  I went through school with one of these guys who could memorize like it was no one's business and he rocked all the tests in A school and Power School but when it came to hands on in Prototype the guy failed his AEA UI's.  Grades don't mean anything if you have drive and determination.  To be honest the study hours don't mean anything either, I didn't study much during my hours because there were so many of them that I was going nuts in that building, but I stuck it out and look at me now.

Everyone gets through the "training maze" in his/her own way.  I don't know anyone that enjoyed that time in their life.   However, you qualifying EWS/EDPO as a PO2 is a very true testament of what you learned along the way.   I've said this before in these threads...sometimes the 2.50 guy turns out to be the better plant operator in the end while the 3.95 guy thinks he's too good to turn a valve.

I will debate the merits of your Nuclear GPA though.  While you're doing great things in the Fleet, you do have opportunity doors that will likely remain closed for you (or will be extremely hard to open)...which, granted you may not care about.  A low GPA will haunt opportunities for future assignments like NPS Instructor, Prototype Instructor, Officer Commissions, etc.  Your GPA does matter in those instances, BUT...it just depends on what you want to get out of the Navy. 

For those that work hard and still barely pass though, your story is a perfect example that in the end your job is to operate a nuclear power plant and that is what the Navy is training you to do.

Co60

[Jechtm]

Just a quick opinion. From what Ive seen almost everyone here has the ability to pass.
How bad do you want it? Thats all you have to answer.

[rjc13]

I will debate the merits of your Nuclear GPA though.  While you're doing great things in the Fleet, you do have opportunity doors that will likely remain closed for you (or will be extremely hard to open)...which, granted you may not care about.  A low GPA will haunt opportunities for future assignments like NPS Instructor, Prototype Instructor, Officer Commissions, etc.  Your GPA does matter in those instances, BUT...it just depends on what you want to get out of the Navy. 

I also barely scraped through power school, 2nd from the bottom of my class. I qualified EWS/EDPO as a second class, did an NPTU tour, qualified EOOW and have been a Nuke LDO for 8 yrs. Anything is waiverable. All it takes is the right amount of effort and drive.

[co60slr]

I also barely scraped through power school, 2nd from the bottom of my class. I qualified EWS/EDPO as a second class, did an NPTU tour, qualified EOOW and have been a Nuke LDO for 8 yrs. Anything is waiverable. All it takes is the right amount of effort and drive.

Why didn't you apply that "effort and drive" to your NPS academics then?   Is your LDO message here for the young DEPers and A-Schoolers to simply blow off their GPA and ask for a waiver later?

Just read the Navy: Getting Out section.   Most people aren't as fortunate.   

Co60

[crusemm]

Why didn't you apply that "effort and drive" to your NPS academics then?   Is your LDO message here for the young DEPers and A-Schoolers to simply blow off their GPA and ask for a waiver later?

Just read the Navy: Getting Out section.   Most people aren't as fortunate.   

Co60

Maybe it just took him a little while to correct the youthful case of "Cranial Rectus Inversionatas" that he had?  I know my own personal case lasted well into my 20's.  Anyone who knew me circa 1992 would have been amazed if I made it through my first six with my Crow intact.  However, with the firm and frequent application of  , some, much needed  and  by those who cared enough to take the time, and a lot of  on my part, I eventually grew out of what was nearly a terminal case to have a pretty successful career as a . 
-Have a Day
-Matt