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Offline moormane

If I Fail Nuke School
« on: Apr 05, 2009, 05:40 »
I am currently in the delayed entry program awaiting to ship out as a navy nuke. I've heard many different things about the nuke program some of which is good some of which is bad. I am ready for the challenges of school and i am also ready to put in the hours it takes to pass. From what i understand schooling goes in this order

1. A School (MM,ET,EM)
2. Power School
3. Prototype

In my mind failure is not an option but in the case i do give my all and am not able to make it i'd like to know where i'll be. For example if i pass A school and fail power school where will i be? Will i be at the mercy of the navy and be chipping paint for the remainder of my career or do i have a say in where i go. I have talked to people that have failed out of school but after talking to them they had a negative mindset. Also what does it take to get complete all of the schooling? An off the chart IQ? Complete Dedication of your time?
As you might be able to tell i'm a little bit nervous. I would appreciate any information.

Offline Smart People

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Re: If I Fail Nuke School
« Reply #1 on: Apr 05, 2009, 06:49 »
if you fail A school you will most likely go to the fleet as a striker.

if you pass A school but fail power school or prototype you will become part of the conventional side of the rating you received in A school (MM, EM, ET)

since you passed the Nuke entrance exam, IQ is probably not an issue. if you were the smartest kid in your class, be prepared, all your new classmates will have been also.

Determination.

Learn to study, take it seriously.

these were lessons i had to learn. even so, grades aren't the only thing that can get you. I got in trouble, got kicked out of power school, got an early honorable discharge and eventually found myself in the world of commercial nuke.
Blessed is the man who can laugh at himself--he will never cease to be amused
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Offline NukeLDO

Re: If I Fail Nuke School
« Reply #2 on: Apr 06, 2009, 07:04 »
The threat of duty on an oiler in the Persian Gulf was enough to keep me putting in hours above and beyong the "suggested' number.  Once you join and get in the pipeline, learning becomes your job...treat it as such.
Once in while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right

Offline Marlin

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Re: If I Fail Nuke School
« Reply #3 on: Apr 06, 2009, 08:53 »
The threat of duty on an oiler in the Persian Gulf was enough to keep me putting in hours above and beyong the "suggested' number.  Once you join and get in the pipeline, learning becomes your job...treat it as such.

I guess it never really changes, we were threatened with a river boat in Nam if we failed.  ;)

Offline LT Dan

Re: If I Fail Nuke School
« Reply #4 on: Apr 06, 2009, 09:25 »
I think the threat today should be a ticket to the front line in either Afghanistan or Iraq if you fail.....

That would provide sufficient motivation!

Offline TJ Nuke

Re: If I Fail Nuke School
« Reply #5 on: Apr 06, 2009, 10:48 »
I don't believe they make such threats currently as long as there is a reasonable effort.  I'm sure if you treat A School as some college freshmen do - "I'm away from home and all I want to do is party," or "Gee, I wish I had gone into patrolling tropical beaches instead of studying so let me do something more fun," then you may become an augmentee or clean heads.
It sounds like the question comes from someone who should and wants to succeed.  He just analyzes all possibilities.  If he works hard he should have make a good nuke.  Isn't it good for a nuke to know what to do AND consider the consequences of everything that might go wrong?

Offline HockeyFan

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Re: If I Fail Nuke School
« Reply #6 on: Apr 06, 2009, 10:00 »
I am ready for the challenges of school and i am also ready to put in the hours it takes to pass.

Expect 40 hours in class plus 15-30 hours outside class.  You have the right attitude, and you'll do fine.  The material isn't hard; there is just a ton of volume.  Few wash out through academic board.  Most that I remember washed out because of missing hours, alcohol, or sleeping in.

Will i be at the mercy of the navy and be chipping paint for the remainder of my career or do i have a say in where i go.

All enlisted in the Navy chip paint, clean toilets, wax floors, and make coffee, including nukes.  That being said, the folks who wash out and try hard are generally taken care of (in accordance with the needs of the Navy).  I had a friend who failed his academic board and got picked up as an OS, made second class, and qualified SW.  He was an OS2(SW) and as happy as can be.  He would have been a happy nuclear operator with the same great attitude -- he just couldn't pass the tests.  Another friend became a corpsman.  As with most everything, attitude matters.

Dave
You have to prove yourself every shift. Paul Coffey
The will to win means nothing without the will to prepare. Juma Ikangaa
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Offline Gamecock

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Re: If I Fail Nuke School
« Reply #7 on: Apr 07, 2009, 08:17 »

“If the thought police come... we will meet them at the door, respectfully, unflinchingly, willing to die... holding a copy of the sacred Scriptures in one hand and the US Constitution in the other."

Offline NukeLDO

Re: If I Fail Nuke School
« Reply #8 on: Apr 07, 2009, 09:34 »
Like it or not, the threat of duty on an oiler in the Persian Gulf is still and incentive.  And, I'm sure the sandbox needs some good electricians to figure out how our soldiers keep getting electocuted in Halliburton provided showers.
But, as already stated, if you try, put in the hours, seek out extra help, etc, and your section advisor see's you putting in the effort, you'll probably be taken care of.....I hear conventional rates on a carrier isn't a bad life....scary....but not bad.  (Mail, phones, real cows, fruits and vegetables, etc)
Once in while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right

Offline Already Gone

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Re: If I Fail Nuke School
« Reply #9 on: Apr 07, 2009, 10:00 »
Think about this for a minute.  Why would the Navy take one of its brightest bulbs and toss him in the bilge just because he didn't make it through their toughest academic program?  Well, if he was a lazy slug who distinguished himself not at all during his "audition".  That would do it.

There are two parallel sets of standards by which you will be judged during your nuclear training phase.  1) Your grades.  2) Your level of commitment toward your assignment.

Your grades can make you a nuke, or an ex-nuke candidate (a drop).  Your level of effort and dedication to the duty that is assigned to you (study hard and long) may or may not be an issue.  If you pass the course by breezing through it with no effort at all, you will still be a nuke.  If you bust your ass and pass, again you will be a nuke.  But if you don't pass, that is when #2 becomes the more important standard.  A drop who consistently put in as many hours as humanly possible, participated in the classroom, sought out instructors , formed study groups, etc. will get prime consideration for orders over the guy who put in 10 hours a week with an average just above passing until it got hard then kicked it up just a little too little and a little too late.  Of course, even he will get better orders than the guy who just gave up, or spent all his time at the beach, or gave excuses why the work was too hard for him though he frequently skipped study hours or did the bare minimum hours.

The point?  If you are sure that you will fail, try harder.  If it is hopeless, still try harder.  If it is a sure lock that you will pass, try even harder still (you never know what is going to be on the comp).  Lots of guys got half way through with their brains tied behind their back.  When they got into the deep end, and couldn't cut it anymore all those hours they didn't put in during first half came back to haunt them.  Yeah, a 3.8 on a test is good, but a 3.85 would have helped the average more when it became a problem later.  The lack of logged hours early on will reflect badly if you fail by a hair in the end.

The people who matter will notice the difference.  There is some pretty decent duty for nukes who were academically dropped but gave good effort.  What you do on day one will still matter six months later, but by then it will be too late to go back and put the time in.

Just remember, this is NOT college.  Passing or failing is not up to you.  Your duty is to study and learn.  You do your duty and the result is secondary.
"To be content with little is hard; to be content with much, impossible." - Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach

Offline Duke Nuker

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Re: If I Fail Nuke School
« Reply #10 on: Apr 08, 2009, 07:52 »
I hate to sound a bit negative, but every once in a while failure is the result, whether it was an option or not.  I passed Power School, and was medically dropped between Power School and Prototype.  Same as failing to me because my career was taking an unannounced turn to port.  I got into Submarine School (volunteer) and passed that with flying colors.  Went to the boat as a MM3 A ganger, loved it.  Went to the tender, assigned to the R-5 division (Rad Con), worked through that , and have been in nuclear power (my original goal) since. 

I think you can make your own path to get where you want to go.  Sometimes you can't follow your original road, but there are almost always opportunities to make your goal if you work towards them with a purpose.
Pedal! Pedal! You can't see paradise if you don't keep pedaling.
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Samabby

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Re: If I Fail Nuke School
« Reply #11 on: Apr 08, 2009, 11:36 »
" The people who matter will notice the difference.  There is some pretty decent duty for nukes who were academically dropped but gave good effort.  "

This was the case for a friend of my son. Great kid, hard worker, great attitude. Power school put him down, but not out. He got sweet orders as a conventional EM. The Navy really does look out for it's own.

Bullnuke

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Re: If I Fail Nuke School
« Reply #12 on: Apr 10, 2009, 03:36 »
Currently the Navy has been "right sizing" all of its rating.

I also see all the records of those sailors who do not make it through the pipeline.

Currently nuke drops are sent to the Conversions Desk in Millington.

The conversions package includes ASVAB scores, evaluations, and reason for being dropped fro the nuclear pipeline. There are always several ratings that are in need and the community managers will review each package  for potential candidates. Contrary to what may have happened in the past, the Navy does not have room for strikers anymore. Everyone has a rating.

As NukeLDO said below, if you qualified to be a nuke in the first place and are not lazy, several other advanced ratings will be looking to pick you up. 

rsl1489

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Re: If I Fail Nuke School
« Reply #13 on: Apr 28, 2009, 12:55 »
I dont know if you've left already or not but Iam currently in the nuke pipe line and I can tell you. Its not as hard as people think. There is not as high a academic drop rate as you would think. Mostly its if you F up and its real easy to on this base, highest masting record in the navy as far as A schooling goes. Get used t 2.5 stay alive. Dont worry, if u fail out honestly u go to DTP and choose another job if u fail out during A-school. After A-school u just become a conventional whatever you are. F up and get bumped out, chippin paint.

Fermi2

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Re: If I Fail Nuke School
« Reply #14 on: Apr 28, 2009, 07:17 »
I dont know if you've left already or not but Iam currently in the nuke pipe line and I can tell you. Its not as hard as people think. There is not as high a academic drop rate as you would think. Mostly its if you F up and its real easy to on this base, highest masting record in the navy as far as A schooling goes. Get used t 2.5 stay alive. Dont worry, if u fail out honestly u go to DTP and choose another job if u fail out during A-school. After A-school u just become a conventional whatever you are. F up and get bumped out, chippin paint.

Proof the Navy is in need of some higher level thinkers....

Mike

Offline HydroDave63

Re: If I Fail Nuke School
« Reply #15 on: Apr 28, 2009, 09:04 »
Proof the Navy is in need of some higher level thinkers....

Mike

I weep for the future.....

http://dilettantescurse.blogspot.com/2009/01/i-weep-for-future.html

Offline Jester

Re: If I Fail Nuke School
« Reply #16 on: Dec 21, 2009, 02:39 »
Potential nuke here, and I want to thank you guys for answering that question, I had the exact same one in mind. I'm glad to hear there's potential still, if it comes to pass that I DO join and (somehow) DO fail out of nuke school.

Also posting this so noone on this board can yell at me for not doing research, when I ask questions   8)

As for my question, how tough is nuke school REALLY? I've personally taken classes up to calc-based physics 2, general chem 2, calculus 3, statics and dynamics.

Second question: what is prototype school like in terms of class subjects and difficulty? Also, I HAVE done research on this, but I haven't gotten enough information yet.
Potential Nuke - Help me learn!

Offline HydroDave63

Re: If I Fail Nuke School
« Reply #17 on: Dec 21, 2009, 06:42 »
Also posting this so noone on this board can yell at me for not doing research, when I ask questions   8)

Sure we can. You are asking a question with a variable answer, it is like asking "will the salsa be too hot for my taste?" You may love it and want to bathe in it, or you may gag and fail out. Nuclear power isn't a place for rhetorical questions and abstract answers.

Welcome to Nukeworker!  :P

Offline thenukeman

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Re: If I Fail Nuke School
« Reply #18 on: Dec 21, 2009, 07:00 »
Aw  yes,  As a XO Of a Nuclear Training company in the Army.  My First Seageant told one soldier he would be grave registrations if he failed.  Sure enough he failed.  I told my First Seargeant it does not work that way.  He says LT I got faith in you make him grave registration.  Since my Dad was a first Seargeant I knew I needed to try my best.  I got Student Military on the line and told them I am just a new LT and I want to make my First Seargeant happy.  LO and Behold I got this Private a Grave Registration spot.  Seeing the Happiness in my First Seargeants eyes was priceless!!! Then when he had this private come forward and He told the Company , All about 200 of the trainees that this failure was going to be grave Registrations,  and the dance and happiness he had when telling this.  Priceless!! I think after this our failure rate went down by half, especialy when he told of the Grave registration final exam.  Basically blowing up  a hog and finding his parts and putting them in a baggy.  OH the HUMANITY!!!!  Don't know if that was true but it was funny!!!!  Basically you can get a failure MOS, a speciality that most recruiters can not lie well enough to get people in!!!

This act I believe saved many failures for me in the future.  The First Seargeant told this story to every new class!!! He then pointed to me  and said he could do it!! Almost made me cry!!!
« Last Edit: Dec 21, 2009, 07:06 by thenukeman »

JustinHEMI05

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Re: If I Fail Nuke School
« Reply #19 on: Dec 21, 2009, 08:50 »
Nuke school is easy peasy lemon squeezy. Don't sweat it.

Offline Gamecock

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Re: If I Fail Nuke School
« Reply #20 on: Dec 21, 2009, 09:21 »
Potential nuke here, and I want to thank you guys for answering that question, I had the exact same one in mind. I'm glad to hear there's potential still, if it comes to pass that I DO join and (somehow) DO fail out of nuke school.

Also posting this so noone on this board can yell at me for not doing research, when I ask questions   8)

As for my question, how tough is nuke school REALLY? I've personally taken classes up to calc-based physics 2, general chem 2, calculus 3, statics and dynamics.

Second question: what is prototype school like in terms of class subjects and difficulty? Also, I HAVE done research on this, but I haven't gotten enough information yet.

With your background, you SHOULD do well.

I stress the "should" part....because smart, LAZY folks can and do fail out.
“If the thought police come... we will meet them at the door, respectfully, unflinchingly, willing to die... holding a copy of the sacred Scriptures in one hand and the US Constitution in the other."

The Inquirer

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Re: If I Fail Nuke School
« Reply #21 on: Dec 23, 2009, 11:17 »
Some of what ppl are saying is true, some is not.  If you fail out of A school u are not always sent as a striker. I have had many friends fail out of A school who were sent to a place called DTP. This is a separate location from nnptc. There one of them waited for 9 months until his newly awaited job had a opening, missle tech. After powerschool you are not always sent to the fleet as a conventional. To be perfectly honest i dont know of many that have. There are too many conventionals in the navy, they have too many coming from there own pipeline. They dont have the room to take nukes that fail out.  Most of the time ppl go to DTP and are given a different job. Now this is where ur hard time goes in. If you tried ur best and other noticed you will not be screwed over by the navy,but if u were visibly negative and didnt try very hard then ur in luck to be chippin paint.  The navy is ur choice, whether u make it or fail out get jumpin over every hurdle and life isnt bad. ppl u have talked to that have t bad attitude did it to themselves.

IPREGEN

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Re: If I Fail Nuke School
« Reply #22 on: Dec 24, 2009, 09:26 »
Honest effort is all it takes, thousands have been through it. You can do it too. Merry Christmas.

Zunyr

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Re: If I Fail Nuke School
« Reply #23 on: Mar 31, 2010, 08:27 »
Current numbers are 1% loss due to academics.  As stated, the people who fail out are those who don't take it seriously.  Class 703 followed by staff pickup, I've had more of my friends fail out due to alcohol and drugs then not smart enough or too lazy (myself being on the lazier side, and they kept me as staff).  We currently have a student who is 2 weeks past his classes graduation from prototype, and he's going to stay at prototype until he qualifies by order of the OIC and CO.  Suck it up, take the first month of each phase, figure it out, then figure out what works for you.

Prototype is a pseudo self paced learning environment.  You get a qual card and told make x point today.  Start with the basics, learning the systems, then go on from there to the more advanced stuff(and by advanced, it's not anywhere near as challenging or complex as you'd even begin to imagine.)  Remember, you going to learn about stuff that was built in the 60's, not modern day technology.  Many people work through the program on straight memorization, and for a lot, it works.  The people who do well focus on understanding and interconnecting everything.  Ultimately, the choice is yours.  I spent every weekend partying and weeknights playing World of Warcraft...  well, i still do that.

Bawb

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Re: If I Fail Nuke School
« Reply #24 on: Apr 11, 2010, 07:35 »
My son starts MM "A" school at Charleston tomorrow and the last school day is July 9th.
He has confirmed that his nuke power school has been shortened to 5 months. Same curriculum, but 5 months, not 6. Needs of the fleet. It's gunna be tough. I don't have the dates for that yet.
« Last Edit: Apr 11, 2010, 07:38 by Bawb »

Offline Gamecock

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Re: If I Fail Nuke School
« Reply #25 on: Apr 11, 2010, 08:07 »
My son starts MM "A" school at Charleston tomorrow and the last school day is July 9th.
He has confirmed that his nuke power school has been shortened to 5 months. Same curriculum, but 5 months, not 6. Needs of the fleet. It's gunna be tough. I don't have the dates for that yet.

Nuke school has not been shortened to 5 months.

Cheers,
GC
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Bawb

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Re: If I Fail Nuke School
« Reply #26 on: Apr 12, 2010, 01:12 »
Thank you for your reply Gamecock. I am learning how rumors a a part of  military life. If I post them I am part of the problem. I apologize.

Offline crusemm

Re: If I Fail Nuke School
« Reply #27 on: Apr 13, 2010, 03:24 »
Bawb, the passing of scuttlebutt is a tried and true Naval tradition.  Just like swearing, tattoos, and drinking, it will continue as long as there are Sailors and vessels for them to sail on.  For a humorouis look at one aspect of Navy life, check out Hey Shipwreck.  One of the episodes, I thing Season 1 episode 2 or 3, has a "conversation" with a Nuke.  Hilarious.
Have a day  :)
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Bawb

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Re: If I Fail Nuke School
« Reply #28 on: Apr 14, 2010, 01:47 »
Thanks for the positive strokes guys. My son started MM "a" school yesterday. PT at 0530 and study ends at 1730. He is tired but he loves it. As an E-3 I figure he is making about $3.75 an hour plus benefits. What he is getting in real life experience serving our country is invaluable. To him and to me.
Prior to joining he was working for me , an electrical contractor (work's been slow lately) , making $15 an hour cash. He didn't have  care in the world. Or so I thought.

Offline Jechtm

Re: If I Fail Nuke School
« Reply #29 on: Apr 14, 2010, 09:59 »
A school isn't really all that bad for us Fireman. I am in a few classes ahead of him, 3.79 Avg 7 weeks in. I says its not bad because we really only have one subject at a time, easy to manage. Not to say we don't learn a lot in just 5 days, but none the less A school should not be a problem for him.

My brother is T Track now (waiting for Power school to start up May 25th, Hes an ET3).
Power school will be much more challenging though for sure, can't wait for the advancement and crow :).

~Jecht

PS. For you 'older' nukes, do they really gauge how much you study as the amount of effort you put in towards being a nuke student? They say they'd rather have a 2.5 student who try's his hardest than a 3.8 student who puts in minimal hours. I put in 12-15 hrs a week of ACTUAL studying, while people with high tack hours (i.e. 20 -3, 25-4) usually goof off or zone out from boredom. I want to help them but group study has been secured at the moment...

I am not particularly worried about the amount of effort I'm putting forward,
just don't want to look like I am coasting through.
"Truth is the Daughter of Inspiration;... It is like a finger pointing a way to the moon. Don't concentrate on the finger or you will miss all that heavenly glory."

~Bruce Lee

Offline crusemm

Re: If I Fail Nuke School
« Reply #30 on: Apr 14, 2010, 10:59 »
It's not so much about the hours you put in, but the amount of effort.  By nature or previous exposure to the material, some people just get it easier than others, and really have to put in no effort.  That does not demonstrate anything other than your ability to absorb/regurgitate or that you did something at college other than drink and get laid, but not enough to keep from failing out anyway.  But some people have to work at it.  This demonstrates several things: resilience in the face of adversity, an ability to set goals and priorities, maturity, perseverance, strength of character, time management.  All of these are much much more desirable traits in the fleet than the ability to calculate the rate of acceleration of a baseball, or the MREM/HR off of a spilled bottle of 1 L with 200 Ci Co60 in it, or the Heat Transfer Coefficient of Zircalloy.  Because, if the have the first set of things (the desired traits), and they are not congenital idiots, then the second set of things (the knowledge) will come, eventually.  If those people with high study hours are not actively working to reduce those hours, then they deserve what they get.  See above about setting priorities. 

Have a Day :D
-Matt
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co60slr

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Re: If I Fail Nuke School
« Reply #31 on: Apr 15, 2010, 05:19 »
They say they'd rather have a 2.5 student who tries his hardest than a 3.8 student who puts in minimal hours. I put in 12-15 hrs a week of ACTUAL studying, while people with high tack hours (i.e. 20 -3, 25-4) usually goof off or zone out from boredom. I want to help them but group study has been secured at the moment...

I am not particularly worried about the amount of effort I'm putting forward,
just don't want to look like I am coasting through.
I posted something along those lines in the past, so I'll clarify.   I would rather not have a 3.80 nuke that has a perfect SAT score who is bored with the Program, puts in little effort and is constantly distracted by his/her daydreams of moving on to higher ground.   (Why didn't that person just go to college/ROTC, etc in the first place?).   Meanwhile, I've had 2.80 sailors that are happy, give 110% and make darn good watchstanders.   

Each case warrants some leadership attention.  The first, I helped into his dream college program and the second was mentored to go on and make Chief early.

Don't just "appear" to not coast.    Don't coast for yourself.  Give 110% of NOW and shoot for that next demanding duty assignment.  You will forever be assessed/evaluated on two traits:  1) Energy level, and 2) technical competence.   Do your job, do it well, care about your ship's mission, the rest is easy.

Now, for those people getting 2.80, partying on the weekends, pays more attention to his/her video games than the 6-factor formula, grumbling about your extra hours, have already made "FTN" a regular phrase (without having seen the real Navy yet)...don't worry, Darwin will win eventually.  However, even as a Chief, I would have tried to mentor this case along from being a "high school kid" to being a Professional Nuclear Operator.  Let's face it...some people choose the Navy for the wrong reasons and end up hating it for 6 years (see Navy: Getting Out threads).   I have to respect someone that wants to move on and find his/her niche in life.

For what it's worth, I enjoy reading the enthusiasm in your posts Jecht.  Keep the updates coming.

Co60

Offline Jechtm

Re: If I Fail Nuke School
« Reply #32 on: Apr 15, 2010, 07:42 »
This week has been pretty interesting, learning about stuff that makes water go sizzle and swish.

Not really gonna go ahead and say much about school. Most of y'all know anyway...

I guess I can say its pretty cool  ;D


Cant wait till ME next month!
"Truth is the Daughter of Inspiration;... It is like a finger pointing a way to the moon. Don't concentrate on the finger or you will miss all that heavenly glory."

~Bruce Lee

Offline DDMurray

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Re: If I Fail Nuke School
« Reply #33 on: Apr 15, 2010, 09:22 »


PS. For you 'older' nukes, do they really gauge how much you study as the amount of effort you put in towards being a nuke student? They say they'd rather have a 2.5 student who try's his hardest than a 3.8 student who puts in minimal hours. I put in 12-15 hrs a week of ACTUAL studying, while people with high tack hours (i.e. 20 -3, 25-4) usually goof off or zone out from boredom. I want to help them but group study has been secured at the moment...

I am not particularly worried about the amount of effort I'm putting forward,
just don't want to look like I am coasting through.

First of all, who is they?  When you get to your boat, you'll learn to hate "they".  Your hours are one of many factors that demonstrate effort.  Nuke school is the beginning of an axiom I learned over the years, "The task will take the time allotted."  If you spend 5 hours in the building to get 3 hours worth of work/studying accomplished, then you're developing bad habits that will carry over to prototype.  Getting used to pissing away time is a recipe for disaster when you reach NPTU. 

If “they” is the fleet, they will only care that you graduated.  They will base their opinions of you on your performance – quals and becoming a technical expert in your field.  Putting in hours for hours sake is motion.  Getting your work done so you can move on to bigger and better things is action.  They are not the same thing.
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
T. Roosevelt

Offline Zog

Re: If I Fail Nuke School
« Reply #34 on: Apr 16, 2010, 01:54 »
Current numbers are 1% loss due to academics. 

1%???? How things have changed in 20 years.

Offline Marlin

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Re: If I Fail Nuke School
« Reply #35 on: Apr 16, 2010, 03:07 »
PS. For you 'older' nukes, do they really gauge how much you study as the amount of effort you put in towards being a nuke student? They say they'd rather have a 2.5 student who try's his hardest than a 3.8 student who puts in minimal hours. I put in 12-15 hrs a week of ACTUAL studying, while people with high tack hours (i.e. 20 -3, 25-4) usually goof off or zone out from boredom. I want to help them but group study has been secured at the moment...

I am not particularly worried about the amount of effort I'm putting forward,
just don't want to look like I am coasting through.


   Mare Island had a sign over the door that said "the smartest must try as hard", our classes were segregated by background and test scores. Section one primarily high school grads, with just got in scores, got what they needed to pass the tests (still not easy) and the top section most had 3 or 4 years of college were fed as much as they could give them. Mare Island and Bainbridge alternated who developed the final comprehensive exam for NPS so each had to teach the full load. As far as academic failure the bottom third of our "A" school class was dropped even if they passed the course.
   At Prototype they were more concerned with the rate at which we qualified than the grade score, that came back to bite those who did not score in the upper half who wanted to be instructors. If you fell behind the curve at S1W you lived on site with 16 instead if 12 hour days and only went home on weekends because of the length of the bus ride.
   In five or ten years when you look back and compare to the current state of the program I am sure it will have changed just as much (may be fusion by then  ;) ).
« Last Edit: Apr 16, 2010, 06:18 by Marlin »

Offline Jechtm

Re: If I Fail Nuke School
« Reply #36 on: Apr 16, 2010, 05:00 »
If you spend 5 hours in the building to get 3 hours worth of work/studying accomplished, then you're developing bad habits that will carry over to prototype.  Getting used to pissing away time is a recipe for disaster when you reach NPTU. 


That is exactly what I do not like about some of my shipmates.. they are given x amount of tack hours yet half the time they complain and slack. Like mentioned above by other posters, they'll get whats coming to them, I just hate the fact they are taking up spots for other people who want to be here.


I like this environment, and I take pride in what I am doing.
"Truth is the Daughter of Inspiration;... It is like a finger pointing a way to the moon. Don't concentrate on the finger or you will miss all that heavenly glory."

~Bruce Lee

The Inquirer

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Re: If I Fail Nuke School
« Reply #37 on: May 04, 2010, 08:12 »
Gotta love the ongoing conversations of might happen when the only thing you really have to do is shut up and study. Lots of people fail out of my prototype class because they get all emotional and cry because they miss their mommy. If they would have got their stuff taken care of they wouldnt be on extra hours. Now they are gone its easier for me to get checkouts! :)

Offline shehane

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Re: If I Fail Nuke School
« Reply #38 on: May 05, 2010, 01:50 »
I think the smartest guys I met in Nuke school were the ones that bombed out.  Some due to lack of ability and some on purpose!!  Most of them were treated better than the ones that made it and got any other school or assignment they wanted.  One guy pursued ac and refrigeration and got out after 4 or 5 years and started with Trane for a butt load of money with none of the nuke industry's bulls***.  Makes me think sometimes.
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be! Dirk Gently

Offline Marlin

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Re: If I Fail Nuke School
« Reply #39 on: May 05, 2010, 10:37 »
I think the smartest guys I met in Nuke school were the ones that bombed out.  Some due to lack of ability and some on purpose!!  Most of them were treated better than the ones that made it and got any other school or assignment they wanted.  One guy pursued ac and refrigeration and got out after 4 or 5 years and started with Trane for a butt load of money with none of the nuke industry's bulls***.  Makes me think sometimes.

   Anheuser Busch was hiring steam plant operators when I got out. My Ex nixed it for me, I should have nixed her sooner. The pay scales and benefits there were much better than any of the Nukes at the time. Most of my shipmates did not end up in Nuke plants and most are doing very well.

 If you made the cut to even start the program you have to have something going for you, you just have to find it and don't listen to the "Nay Sayers".
« Last Edit: May 05, 2010, 03:13 by Marlin »

ravenuke

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Re: If I Fail Nuke School
« Reply #40 on: May 06, 2010, 09:47 »
Quote
PS. For you 'older' nukes, do they really gauge how much you study as the amount of effort you put in towards being a nuke student? They say they'd rather have a 2.5 student who try's his hardest than a 3.8 student who puts in minimal hours. I put in 12-15 hrs a week of ACTUAL studying, while people with high tack hours (i.e. 20 -3, 25-4) usually goof off or zone out from boredom. I want to help them but group study has been secured at the moment...

I am not particularly worried about the amount of effort I'm putting forward,
just don't want to look like I am coasting through.

I put in no more than 5-7 hours per week.  They aren't going to penalize you for not needing to study as much as others.  I graduated honoman and was the class leader with a great eval from my SLPO.  You don't have to put in 15-20 hours just so that it looks like you are putting in effort.  The grade will prove that.  That would be a show of trying to be "that guy" that the Navy is so keen on us no being.  Do your best and stand out with military bearing and good grades.  On the other hand, I had one shipmate that was doing well, 3.2 student, was put on volenteer hours for it and only put in 2 hours one week and bombed the test.  For this he was put on 25-4's and had to make the hours up in just 3 days.  Just do what you need to do to be the best you can, or the Navy will do it for you.  Good luck and keep up the work.

Offline shehane

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Re: If I Fail Nuke School
« Reply #41 on: Jun 03, 2010, 03:34 »
The study hours depended on the section Chief.  I maintained between 3.5 and 3.6 the whole time in Nuke school and my Chief pitched a fit if my hours didn't increase each week.  I was never threatened with mandnatory or ordered hours but I knew he would chew on me every week for not putting in enough study time.
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be! Dirk Gently

Offline BK3

Re: If I Fail Nuke School
« Reply #42 on: Jul 16, 2010, 02:42 »
I don't think that 1% number is accurate at all to be honest. I've seen 4 kicked out of two classes. I suppose it could be do to the small sample size, but it seems to be the standard. In my opinion they just do not want people to be discouraged heading in.

Offline gim73

Re: If I Fail Nuke School
« Reply #43 on: Jul 16, 2010, 09:01 »
Yes, nukes wind up chipping and painting.  We make coffee and definately wax floors (every patrol stripping and waxing our area!).  We generally don't clean toilets unless we are talking about our own in the barracks, or if the engine room has one.  All of us clean equipment for PMS and dive into a bilge on field days (or when LL pukes the purifiers).

There are gonna be what you consider to be 'crap jobs' to do.  Eventually you might get to start like being put on paint team rather than being in 3 section duty.  Suck it up.  Even with crap duty, most nukes have a lot less of it to deal with than our non-nuclear brethren, even though there are other balances in that equation.

Think you might fail out?  Every morning when I was in 'A' school some damn senior chief would chant the same words at me.  Attitude is life.  He then went on to describe how if you have a good attitude you'd be able to succeed in life, but if you have a piss poor attitude then you are destined to fail at everything you do.  And he would say this while he was running circles around us in florida morning weather. 

Getting on level 1 PT is perhaps the worst thing that ever happened to my attitude, and it almost cost me nuke school.  It all started when I passed the PRT, but only with a Sat.  Shortly after I was waking up with the early birds and running that path with stops for various exercises.  Every day I was losing more and more sleep and standing up in the back for all my classes.  Test scores went from great to average to wtf am I doing?  Suddenly stress is at an all time high and something needs to be done.  Some smoked, others walked down Orange Blossom Trail, and I found comfort in food.  All of these activities will have adverse effects on your PRT score.  I passed my dash for cash, and barely passed A school. 

Power school was in the summer.  Black flag days gave me enough sleep that I could actually do well in class.  I completed power school with a 3.5 and felt a lot better about myself.  Unfortunately I never got rid of those eating habits and have always had a loathing for running and squats. 

What can I really say to somebody who needs advice?  Learn to manage your time.  Sleep is not a bank, you can't just make a big deposit one day and ignore the rest.  Attitude IS life, but don't let those bastards give you a bad attitude and ruin your life.  Fight tooth and nail every step and NEVER EVER let them put you on remedial PT, IT RUINS LIVES!!!!  Relieve stress by going to the beach or something constructive, not hookers/booze/food/smokes. 

Oh yeah, I knew quite a few guys who got kicked out of the nuke pipeline and found it to be the best thing that ever happened to them.  I loved being a nuke (hated what they did to me in the pipeline, but the fleet was great) but some people are better off out in the conventional navy.  Don't worry too much about it and just give it your all.  The pipeline will be over before you know it and you will be learning how you REALLY do your job.

Offline jshinevar

Re: If I Fail Nuke School
« Reply #44 on: Jul 17, 2010, 12:14 »
Let's just put it this way.  I barely passed A school with a 2.54.  I was on 40-5's in Power School.  I didn't do that bad in Prototype and on the boat I qualified EWS/EDPO as a second class.  Even if you barely make it through the pipeline no one cares afterward.  I went through school with one of these guys who could memorize like it was no one's business and he rocked all the tests in A school and Power School but when it came to hands on in Prototype the guy failed his AEA UI's.  Grades don't mean anything if you have drive and determination.  To be honest the study hours don't mean anything either, I didn't study much during my hours because there were so many of them that I was going nuts in that building, but I stuck it out and look at me now.

co60slr

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Re: If I Fail Nuke School
« Reply #45 on: Jul 17, 2010, 08:04 »
Let's just put it this way.  I barely passed A school with a 2.54.  I was on 40-5's in Power School.  I didn't do that bad in Prototype and on the boat I qualified EWS/EDPO as a second class.  Even if you barely make it through the pipeline no one cares afterward.  I went through school with one of these guys who could memorize like it was no one's business and he rocked all the tests in A school and Power School but when it came to hands on in Prototype the guy failed his AEA UI's.  Grades don't mean anything if you have drive and determination.  To be honest the study hours don't mean anything either, I didn't study much during my hours because there were so many of them that I was going nuts in that building, but I stuck it out and look at me now.
Everyone gets through the "training maze" in his/her own way.  I don't know anyone that enjoyed that time in their life.   However, you qualifying EWS/EDPO as a PO2 is a very true testament of what you learned along the way.   I've said this before in these threads...sometimes the 2.50 guy turns out to be the better plant operator in the end while the 3.95 guy thinks he's too good to turn a valve.

I will debate the merits of your Nuclear GPA though.  While you're doing great things in the Fleet, you do have opportunity doors that will likely remain closed for you (or will be extremely hard to open)...which, granted you may not care about.  A low GPA will haunt opportunities for future assignments like NPS Instructor, Prototype Instructor, Officer Commissions, etc.  Your GPA does matter in those instances, BUT...it just depends on what you want to get out of the Navy. 

For those that work hard and still barely pass though, your story is a perfect example that in the end your job is to operate a nuclear power plant and that is what the Navy is training you to do.

Co60


Offline Jechtm

Re: If I Fail Nuke School
« Reply #46 on: Aug 15, 2010, 01:00 »
Just a quick opinion. From what Ive seen almost everyone here has the ability to pass.
How bad do you want it? Thats all you have to answer.
"Truth is the Daughter of Inspiration;... It is like a finger pointing a way to the moon. Don't concentrate on the finger or you will miss all that heavenly glory."

~Bruce Lee

Offline rjc13

Re: If I Fail Nuke School
« Reply #47 on: Aug 16, 2010, 03:27 »

I will debate the merits of your Nuclear GPA though.  While you're doing great things in the Fleet, you do have opportunity doors that will likely remain closed for you (or will be extremely hard to open)...which, granted you may not care about.  A low GPA will haunt opportunities for future assignments like NPS Instructor, Prototype Instructor, Officer Commissions, etc.  Your GPA does matter in those instances, BUT...it just depends on what you want to get out of the Navy. 


I also barely scraped through power school, 2nd from the bottom of my class. I qualified EWS/EDPO as a second class, did an NPTU tour, qualified EOOW and have been a Nuke LDO for 8 yrs. Anything is waiverable. All it takes is the right amount of effort and drive.

co60slr

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Re: If I Fail Nuke School
« Reply #48 on: Aug 16, 2010, 10:14 »
I also barely scraped through power school, 2nd from the bottom of my class. I qualified EWS/EDPO as a second class, did an NPTU tour, qualified EOOW and have been a Nuke LDO for 8 yrs. Anything is waiverable. All it takes is the right amount of effort and drive.
Why didn't you apply that "effort and drive" to your NPS academics then?   Is your LDO message here for the young DEPers and A-Schoolers to simply blow off their GPA and ask for a waiver later?

Just read the Navy: Getting Out section.   Most people aren't as fortunate.   

Co60

Offline crusemm

Re: If I Fail Nuke School
« Reply #49 on: Aug 16, 2010, 11:00 »
Why didn't you apply that "effort and drive" to your NPS academics then?   Is your LDO message here for the young DEPers and A-Schoolers to simply blow off their GPA and ask for a waiver later?

Just read the Navy: Getting Out section.   Most people aren't as fortunate.   

Co60
Maybe it just took him a little while to correct the youthful case of "Cranial Rectus Inversionatas" that he had?  I know my own personal case lasted well into my 20's.  Anyone who knew me circa 1992 would have been amazed if I made it through my first six with my Crow intact.  However, with the firm and frequent application of  [RTFM], some, much needed  [spank] and  [censored] by those who cared enough to take the time, and a lot of  [salute] [salute] [salute] [salute] on my part, I eventually grew out of what was nearly a terminal case to have a pretty successful career as a [coffee]
-Have a Day
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Authentic truth is never simple and that any version of truth handed down from on high---whether by presidents, prime ministers, or archbishops---is inherently suspect.-Andrew Bacevich

co60slr

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Re: If I Fail Nuke School
« Reply #50 on: Aug 17, 2010, 05:10 »
... I eventually grew out of what was nearly a terminal case to have a pretty successful career as a [coffee]
-Matt [chill]
In fact..my Chief at NPS used to say he'd prefer to take the "bottom guy" for his division.  Although I didn't understand it much to begin with, I sure did over the next 20+ years.   NPS grades do NOT indicate how well you will be at your rate when you show up to your first ship and have to start fixing equipment.

However, we all have seen the guys/gals get the last choice of duty stations because of grades (and perhaps more that still wasn't fixed years after NPS).

I agree...everything is waivable.   My point:  try not to start your Navy Career needing waivers.   Otherwise, we have a few stories in this thread that definitely have proven success...although "the hard way".  ;-)


Offline DDMurray

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Re: If I Fail Nuke School
« Reply #51 on: Aug 17, 2010, 07:10 »
More important than looking at success by GPA is looking at striving to reach your potential.  If you have to work hard to make it, it will likely mean more to you than somebody who skated by.  I think everybody "pays" at some point.   Sometime during your time in the service, you will reach a point that challenges you beyond your expectations.  Meeting these challenges is what separates the men from the boys.  To say you'd rather have a bottom guy over a top-performer in the pipeline is nice, but I think we'd all like the guy who can handle stress and complete his initial quals without any drama.   Like Co60 said, being a top half guy opens more doors faster.  If you're capable of being top half and you're not, ask yourself why not? 

 
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
T. Roosevelt

Offline rjc13

Re: If I Fail Nuke School
« Reply #52 on: Aug 17, 2010, 10:55 »
Why didn't you apply that "effort and drive" to your NPS academics then?   Is your LDO message here for the young DEPers and A-Schoolers to simply blow off their GPA and ask for a waiver later?

Just read the Navy: Getting Out section.   Most people aren't as fortunate.   

Co60

Wow.  The "LDO message" is not to blow off academics. In my case, I was young and didn't fully understand the weight of what I had undertaken. I did have a severe case of "cranial rectus inversion". The get well program for that started at prototype and finished quickly on my first boat.

Good on the kids that come in and excel. They DO HAVE A MUCH EASIER TIME. Maybe other people aren't as fortunate as me. I never really thought fortune had much to do with it.  I consider myself fortunate to have learned the lessons I did early in my career and 20 yrs later, I am pretty happy about.

My LDO message for the DEPers, and A school guys: STUDY, DO WELL IN SCHOOL, WORK HARD ( in no particular order of importance) When you get to p-type and out in the fleet: LEARN THE PLANT, SPEND TIME IN IT, WORK HARD and GET QUALIFIED! Once qualified NEVER STOP WORKING HARD and NEVER STOP LEARNING!

Offline Jechtm

Re: If I Fail Nuke School
« Reply #53 on: Aug 19, 2010, 08:43 »

My LDO message for the DEPers, and A school guys: STUDY, DO WELL IN SCHOOL, WORK HARD ( in no particular order of importance) When you get to p-type and out in the fleet: LEARN THE PLANT, SPEND TIME IN IT, WORK HARD and GET QUALIFIED! Once qualified NEVER STOP WORKING HARD and NEVER STOP LEARNING!

hooyah?
"Truth is the Daughter of Inspiration;... It is like a finger pointing a way to the moon. Don't concentrate on the finger or you will miss all that heavenly glory."

~Bruce Lee

Offline justfoundfreedom

Re: If I Fail Nuke School
« Reply #54 on: Oct 27, 2010, 10:57 »
Just graduated NPS and graduated top half, but many of those who graduated top half of the class still don't know what it's like to try. I would be surprised if half of them even put in a 20 study hour week. Gauging their success in the fleet is impossible for me, but gauging their effort levels and degrees of devotion to their craft, that I saw. There were a good 50 people sub 3.0 that; tried harder, learned more and grew more as sailors than most of the top half.

Grades aren't an indication of a quality individual or sailor, only that they were capable of memorizing words on a page.

co60slr

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Re: If I Fail Nuke School
« Reply #55 on: Oct 28, 2010, 12:26 »
Just graduated NPS and graduated top half, but many of those who graduated top half of the class still don't know what it's like to try. I would be surprised if half of them even put in a 20 study hour week. Gauging their success in the fleet is impossible for me, but gauging their effort levels and degrees of devotion to their craft, that I saw. There were a good 50 people sub 3.0 that; tried harder, learned more and grew more as sailors than most of the top half.

Grades aren't an indication of a quality individual or sailor, only that they were capable of memorizing words on a page.
That's one reason why Rickover created "Prototype".   Stand by....for those that can't apply what they've learned (or memorized, as you say).

The process works.  Although, it's very rare to hear a unqualified nuke talk about other unqualified nukes in a manner of "quality of sailor".  What's your real story?

MoreHooyah

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Re: If I Fail Nuke School
« Reply #56 on: Apr 21, 2012, 08:29 »
I think the threat today should be a ticket to the front line in either Afghanistan or Iraq if you fail.....

That would provide sufficient motivation!

I'd volunteer for that duty if it reduced my future hold time. Chief keeps telling me I'll be on hold for a long time.

Offline Starkist

Re: If I Fail Nuke School
« Reply #57 on: Apr 21, 2012, 10:15 »
I'd volunteer for that duty if it reduced my future hold time. Chief keeps telling me I'll be on hold for a long time.

Wow. for starters, the actual "war" part is over.

2nd.

Quote from: LT Dan on Apr 06, 2009, 09:25



Welcome to hold life. It's the easiest, mindless, and the most relaxing time you will have in the navy. Instead of "Boo-hoo"ing it, go take some college classes, or get a hobby.




shocker

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Re: If I Fail Nuke School
« Reply #58 on: Apr 23, 2012, 08:42 »
According to the higher ups, the wars were over weeks after they started. But for all the American soldiers who have been wounded since the "actual war" was over I can't agree that they are over yet.

It's killing me to be stuck in training as long as I am and not being able to contribute to bringing our soldiers - on the front lines - home safely, even if I am only staring at a panel making sure the ship gets there on time to support them. That being said, grad hold spoiled the s**t out of me.
« Last Edit: Apr 23, 2012, 09:48 by Nuclear NASCAR »

Offline Starkist

Re: If I Fail Nuke School
« Reply #59 on: Apr 23, 2012, 09:22 »
According to the higher ups, the wars were over weeks after they started. But for all the American soldiers who have been wounded since the "actual war" was over I can't agree that they are over yet.

It's killing me to be stuck in training as long as I am and not being able to contribute to bringing our soldiers - on the front lines - home safely, even if I am only staring at a panel making sure the ship gets there on time to support them. That being said, grad hold spoiled the s**t out of me.


Give me a break....


go on a few deployments before saying what you'd rather be doing. Panel's or otherwise.  If you wanted to be ground pounding, you'd have joined the army or marines. Stick to what you're doing and focus on that.



« Last Edit: Apr 23, 2012, 09:48 by Nuclear NASCAR »

Fermi2

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Re: If I Fail Nuke School
« Reply #60 on: Apr 24, 2012, 09:50 »
According to the higher ups, the wars were over weeks after they started. But for all the American soldiers who have been wounded since the "actual war" was over I can't agree that they are over yet.

It's killing me to be stuck in training as long as I am and not being able to contribute to bringing our soldiers - on the front lines - home safely, even if I am only staring at a panel making sure the ship gets there on time to support them. That being said, grad hold spoiled the s**t out of me.

Uh yeah, right.

shocker

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Re: If I Fail Nuke School
« Reply #61 on: Apr 25, 2012, 10:30 »

Give me a break....

go on a few deployments before saying what you'd rather be doing. Panel's or otherwise.  If you wanted to be ground pounding, you'd have joined the army or marines. Stick to what you're doing and focus on that.

Believe what you want. Sitting cleaning barracks for months while on hold was not the job I chose. As it stands, the DEP time, and the hold time in the current pipeline have prevented me from supporting our troops on the front line.

You are absolutely right, I believe I have talents that are better suited for jobs besides holding a rifle on the front lines. It is for that reason I joined in a highly needed, supportive role for the armed forces. But it was my sister and brother-in-law being sent into harms way that made me want to help bring them home. It is for all the others, currently in harms way, I felt it important not to negate their sacrifice. For that reason I decided to contradict your statement.

The negative, judgmental attitude of this forum is disgusting.

Offline Starkist

Re: If I Fail Nuke School
« Reply #62 on: Apr 26, 2012, 12:34 »
Believe what you want. Sitting cleaning barracks for months while on hold was not the job I chose. As it stands, the DEP time, and the hold time in the current pipeline have prevented me from supporting our troops on the front line.

You are absolutely right, I believe I have talents that are better suited for jobs besides holding a rifle on the front lines. It is for that reason I joined in a highly needed, supportive role for the armed forces. But it was my sister and brother-in-law being sent into harms way that made me want to help bring them home. It is for all the others, currently in harms way, I felt it important not to negate their sacrifice. For that reason I decided to contradict your statement.

The negative, judgmental attitude of this forum is disgusting.

Man its like I've never been on hold, and I went straight through the program with no problems... Guess Im just talkin out my butt!  ... oh wait this ain't poly sci....  :P




 ROFL ROFL ROFL

« Last Edit: Apr 26, 2012, 12:34 by Starkist »

withroaj

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Re: If I Fail Nuke School
« Reply #63 on: Apr 26, 2012, 07:24 »
Believe what you want. Sitting cleaning barracks for months while on hold was not the job I chose. As it stands, the DEP time, and the hold time in the current pipeline have prevented me from supporting our troops on the front line.

You are absolutely right, I believe I have talents that are better suited for jobs besides holding a rifle on the front lines. It is for that reason I joined in a highly needed, supportive role for the armed forces. But it was my sister and brother-in-law being sent into harms way that made me want to help bring them home. It is for all the others, currently in harms way, I felt it important not to negate their sacrifice. For that reason I decided to contradict your statement.

The negative, judgmental attitude of this forum is disgusting.

I don't want to come across as too negative, but I hope you understand that the bulk of your time on sea duty will be spent within a few hundred miles of your homeport.  You'll experience a lot of time in which it feels like the purpose of naval nuclear propulsion is to push ships from inspection to inspection, to punch holes in the water for crew proficiency or to act as a training platform catching student pilots.  You'll deploy, though, and you'll find that you spend more time on the diplomatic mission of the Navy, hosting dignitaries in foreign ports with parties that make GSA Vegas trips look like elementary school pizza parties (PolySci?), than you spend actually in theater puttin' warheads on foreheads.

You'll do some cool things in time, though.  My last ship had the opportunity to save lives a few times while on local ops, including making a U-turn when coming home (you could have spit off the ship and it would have landed on the pier) just before Christmas standdown to head out and help a ship in distress.  Clean barracks for now (consider it "paying your dues" before going out and cleaning ships), and you'll get to go play Navy soon enough.  Make sure you have fun with it, and thank you for your service.

 


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