How would you fix the NNPP

[drayer54]

Does a gas turbine tech do any type of "hands on training" at a land based mockup of a gas turbine before they are shipped out to the fleet? I doubt it.

In my opinion, the NPTUs can be done away with.

Does NR view the prototypes to have any purpose beyond training? Equipment testing? Procedure implementation? Research?

USC doesn't play ECU until Saturday, so perhaps a NR type who wanders one of these facilities would have some insight?

[eaton1981]

KAPL uses them for testing and research. I believe Bechtel or Lockheed or whatever corp. is in charge nowadays of the Kesselring Site actually OWNS the S8G and MARF plants.

Still though...I learned a lot more actually shifting the EP on my boat then I ever did as a student at NPTU. Maybe there's a TINY bit of merit of sending kids through to see how quals work. Still though...that's a lot of cash just to teach them how to ask "Do you have time for a checkout?"

[GLW]

KAPL uses them for testing and research......

And they don't need Navy enlisteds to perform that function,...

[NukeLDO]

KAPL uses them for testing and research. I believe Bechtel or Lockheed or whatever corp. is in charge nowadays of the Kesselring Site actually OWNS the S8G and MARF plants.

Nope.  DOE still owns the plants.  KAPL (now combined with Bechtel Propulsion Machinery Corporation) is contracted to run the facility and operations of the plants.  On the opposite end of the spectrum, at the MTS, the contractor runs student training, and the Navy is responsible for operation of the plants.

[GLW]

...The fleet doesn't remove people based on their learning or operating ability....

Based on numerous empirical observations I beg to differ,...

here's the latest;

Thanks. BNEQ is a whole different story and water under the bridge so to speak, it came to a bird, with all due respect to him, not trusting me with being an operator. To be more specific: I don't know why I can draw BFPL but not list every single exact coordinate the graph changes, but blow every thing else out the water.

Before the Navy I have a decent background in low voltage electronics, which helped me a lot going through the pipeline, when it came to BE, Digital, and... that last A-school class everyone hated: ICE. Yeah I remember feeling like I already knew it our grasped it fast. But to answer your question I'd rather fix broken electronics to actual operating. Being an ET I'm good with computers; building, operating, fixing, all that, whatever an ET would do in a civilian plant. I imagine there's several different jobs in a civilian plant that an ET would do on a boat.

Prototype should have weeded out book smart, hands stupid before the fleet wasted 18 months plus on this billet. If the fleet has to do this job, p-type is a redundant, paid vacation for staff and students alike (IMNSHO). As a taxpayer, my inclination is that perhaps it's time to staunch the fiscal bleeding.

....Nukes can go straight to sea from power school, but I think the qual process would need to be modified to merge the mechanical/electrical/reactor operator basics of power plant operation and the demands of a real warship. It could be done for sure. Why not?

agreed,...

(sic)

[drayer54]

Prototype should have weeded out book smart, hands stupid before the fleet wasted 18 months plus on this billet. If the fleet has to do this job, p-type is a redundant, paid vacation for staff and students alike (IMNSHO). As a taxpayer, my inclination is that perhaps it's time to staunch the fiscal bleeding.

1) p-type is never a vacation.

2) BNEQ!!!! No, no, no....... Ive seen people who can't operate a rack light or a commode without a babysitter pass BNEQ. Somebody had to have been super special to get weeded out here. Finding the 95k ton chunk of steel was harder than BNEQ.

[GLW]

1) p-type is never a vacation.

it was for me, right at the top of my favorite Navy duty stations,...

rotating shift,...one's and three's and five's off,...

paid twice a month,...

living 17 minutes from the front gate,...

allowed to live like an adult on the local economy, take care of your business and we will not mind it for you, show up on time, do what's expected on shift, go home on-time,..

four real seasons,...

great scenery and local stuff to do,...

easy, peasy, lemon squeezy good times,...

perhaps things have changed,...

[Gamecock]

Prototype should have weeded out book smart, hands stupid before the fleet wasted 18 months plus on this billet. If the fleet has to do this job, p-type is a redundant, paid vacation for staff and students alike

Its not a vacation for anyone to  keep an aging reactor plant operational.

This time, I have to disagree with you.

[GLW]

Its not a vacation for anyone to  keep an aging reactor plant operational.

This time, I have to disagree with you.

ah well, there is that,....

my doctor says something similar every time I walk through his door,...

[HydroDave63]

Its not a vacation for anyone to  keep an aging reactor plant operational.

This time, I have to disagree with you.

What say you to the notion of having the nubs feel the steam and smell the phosphates with the BTs in Great Mistakes for 8 weeks, then off to Simulators sans reactors at Goose Creek?

[GLW]

What say you to the notion of having the nubs feel the steam and smell the phosphates with the BTs in Great Mistakes for 8 weeks, then off to Simulators sans reactors at Goose Creek?

I say I don't believe they have BTs anymore,...

then again,...they don't have a lot of things anymore,...

[HydroDave63]

I say I don't believe they have BTs anymore,...

then again,...they don't have a lot of things anymore,...

Ok......

For the cost of a couple hundred washouts , we could set up some donkey boilers, a 600# steam plant, a small TG set and a main engine/water brake system.

[GLW]

Ok......

For the cost of a couple hundred washouts , we could set up some donkey boilers, a 600# steam plant, a small TG set and a main engine/water brake system.

that would be a MTS,...

[HydroDave63]

that would be a MTS,...

Indeed it would. And if I was ever SecNav, it would be the power source to a refurbished LORAN station, far from the temptations of drunk driving, chasing Skiddie Kiddies, DITY move scams etc.

[Gamecock]

http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=70471

I wonder if he'll fix it?

http://www.navy.mil/navydata/bios/navybio.asp?bioID=440

[drayer54]

http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=70471

I wonder if he'll fix it?

http://www.navy.mil/navydata/bios/navybio.asp?bioID=440

So you think it's broke?

[GLW]

So you think it's broke?

Aaaaaaaaaaand they're off!!!

[HydroDave63]

I wonder if he'll fix it?

http://www.navy.mil/navydata/bios/navybio.asp?bioID=440

Any skipper that could successfully drive and park the 683 with its......unique camber and....special handling during dives...has my vote!! 

[rlbinc]

So, if you're a sailor in the NNPP, succeeding due to ADM Bowman's sentiment, you might want to consider staying in the USN, as the attrition rate for former sailors in license class is observably (if not empirically) higher than it used to be,...

of course, I could be wrong,...

You're not wrong.
We have replaced a formerly high Navy Nuclear Power training attrition rate with low Initial License Training throughput.
That 30 to 50% filter will catch the SMAGs, since the Navy opened the filter bypass, we backflush them out here.

[Higgs]

You're not wrong.
We have replaced a formerly high Navy Nuclear Power training attrition rate with low Initial License Training throughput.
That 30 to 50% filter will catch the SMAGs, since the Navy opened the filter bypass, we backflush them out here.

I agree. 30% of my most recent class dropped, 75% of the drops were Navy nukes.

Justin

[dmcgn37]

Sorry I just found this funny as an old cruiser sailor....we were happy when we had five and dimes

"Also, if they don't have the man power, they will just shorten the watch rotation and duty sections. 5-10's and 3 section duty on a carrier... "

[HydroDave63]

Sorry I just found this funny as an old cruiser sailor....we were happy when we had five and dimes

Or when those POS distilling units would go OOS, then port-n-starboards! 

[spekkio]

Been away for a bit but I find it quite comical that after 26 pages the consensus reached one of two conclusions:

1) It's not broke OR
2) Raise the pay.

The Navy has done #2 many times. People are still leaving at a similar rate (lower now thanks to a poor economy). Any more bright ideas?

[dad]

Does a gas turbine tech do any type of "hands on training" at a land based mockup of a gas turbine before they are shipped out to the fleet? I doubt it.

In my opinion, the NPTUs can be done away with.

My son graduated from the GC  NPTU in the last few months.

There are certainly issues with keeping even one of the 60 50 year old MTS up and available for training.

He qaulified several weeks before graduation and volunteered each day to work with members on his crew who had not yet qualified ( on days when finding make work for him to do was a challenge - which was every day he did not have watch ).

Apparently the standards were relaxed in the last week or two so that virtually everyone who had not given up previously was able to qualify.

Failure and self removal were apparently the same thing.  Those who wanted out went to medical and reported depression or some other disqualifying condition.

However, IMHO, the above are all things that a competent organization can fix by policy changes, training  and/or training facility  investments.

I was able to observe my son first hand multiple times through out the Nuke pipeline.  He came home for emergency leave for a terminal illness in A school, T-Track Leave, Christmas holiday in Power School, Pre-Fill Leave, emergency leave for a funeral during the first few months of Prototype, and  a 30 day leave before reporting to his boat. ( The member of the Greatest Generation who was supposed to die a few weeks after A School  started,  instead lived a relatively healthy life for another year and half ).

The difference in this Sailor between the Pre-Fill leave, and the 30 day leave after prototype graduation was dramatic.  The self driven check out process without hand holding, the requirement for this unmarried sailor to live outside the barracks, take care of himself, and qualify with feedback which was often non-existent except when it was negative, and the ability to interact with veteran Nukes and pick and choose from conflicting career advice, made him decisive and unflappable.

In this one case at least, the Sailor who recently reported to his boat while underway,  somewhere in the Pacific,  was much different than he would have been had he gone straight from the Military Technical Training School environment of NNPTC to his boat.  

Just one father's opininion.     A father who went from his own technical training school directly to his first command thirty forty years ago without anywhere near that amount of seasoning or maturity.  Take it for what it is worth.

[Gamecock]

Apparently the standards were relaxed in the last week or two so that virtually everyone who had not given up previously was able to qualify.

Failure and self removal were apparently the same thing.  Those who wanted out went to medical and reported depression or some other disqualifying condition.

The quoted portion from your post is not factual.

Cheers,

GC