How would you fix the NNPP

[Gamecock]

I completely agree with this.  In fact, the CO of my boat had an E-6 call yesterday and pretty much gave them a yfg speech on how they need to be positive leaders..lead the E-5's and below..be happy to be doing what we do, and that lasted an hour and a half. 

I know a bunch of us that would stay in, but I think we're all afraid because there are so many people getting out.  It's a shame the Hartford got stuck in the shipyard for 20 months.  That means needs of the navy take over and we all get extended if we reenlist.  They front loaded everyone at the beginning of the shipyard and haven't sent anyone since then hardly.  My division has gotten 1 new guy in the last 2 years...  After we get back from our deployment coming up here soon, there will be 2 ET's left and 4 EM's.  Everyone else is getting out within a few months of RTP. 

It seems almost unfair to the junior guys to leave the boat like that, even after being there for such a long time, except for the ELT's.  There are 7 of those guys on the boat.  Maybe what I'm trying to say is that they should work on more evenly distributing people through the boats.  That, and more propay would be pretty cool.  Can't complain for the 11.5 multiple on the SRB.

ELT's are MMs....M-Div should be using them accordingly...shame on your boat if they aren't.

[LaFeet]

Anyway, off topic, but yes..., there is a reason they are 16 year firsts and I'd wager it isn't the Navy's fault. He retired at 20 as a first class. 

Hey Higgs,  I was (and I guess still) one of those Golden E-6s.  I still enjoyed working with the guys under me as well as most of the officers.

I think if we could keep politicking out of the ranking system then the pay would be more then sufficient. 

As for how things are going today in the NNPP, I can only state that the guys I taught are having some fun, but are doing a great job with what they got.

BTW  THANK you for your service

[730SMAG]

ELT's are MMs....M-Div should be using them accordingly...shame on your boat if they aren't.

You know, when I was still in...  I would have been...irate...at that statement.  Now that I'm out, I kinda regret not getting more hands-on with M-div stuff outside of ERF, because that hands-on was 1.) Kinda fun, and 2.) A good 'another viewpoint' for things.

[Starkist]

You sub guys crack me up.

[BenAtkinson]

ELT's are MMs....M-Div should be using them accordingly...shame on your boat if they aren't.

Would be great if the boats actually did this.  Last boat I was on, the ELTs seldom did any M-Div stuff.  Not much can be done when the EDMC doesn't enforce it.  Only thing that changed when I was there was the fact that ELTs actually had to attend M-Div training.  Before I got there, they didn't.  Oh, and I was the E-Div chief, so I could have cared less what they did. 

Ben

[MMM]

Supervisory SDAP (pro-pay) is now $375, it went up a few years ago (Instructors still get $450).

Contrary to what was stated earlier, there may be several reasons you have a 16 year gold 1st class. It could be poor career decisions, a failed PFA, or something more serious (which in general removes the eligibility to wear gold). I know in my case it was a combination of the first two. I made the mistake of not finishing my PPWS qual before going to my first shore command (at my 9 year point), and then went to Repair Dept instead of instructor duty, so I couldn't qualify for the 3 years I was there. I also failed a PFA while there. Once I got back to a ship, I qualified PPWS (now 12 year point), it was still a couple years before the PFA failure came off my record, then another year before I was at instructor duty and qualified instructor. As soon as those things happened, I earned my anchors (at my 17 year point), along with a couple other guys who were in a similar situation.

[LaFeet]

Wow   I qualified all watch stations, including many the normal ROs would not consider (ERLL, ERML,ERUL, ERS, BCE, COW), had the instructor tour (made MTS in less than 6 months), just failed to play the political game out there.   I had hoped that my quality of work and high test scores would allow me to advance.  but when I was in you basically had to suck up and I am (still) not that type.  Got my gold early and kept it.

As for today's nukes, I wish them the best and thank you all for your service.

[MoreHooyah]

I know they old saying "A B#*%ing sailor is a happy sailor" but I just wanted to get some input from both new and old glow-worms on what you would do to "fix" what we perceive to be wrong with the Navy Nuke program, and not just the broad brush stroke of "raise the standards of recruitment" or "do away with NRRO", I mean real specific answers.  I am sure that there is a lot that we would agree on and even some that we wouldn't.  Who knows maybe someone with some power will read this and see what they can do to put it into play. 

Good thread idea. I wish I could go out and do some maintenance as a conventional and come back to finish nuke school/prototype/whatever else they want me to do. If I could learn how to fix stuff/make it run, I can really understand the more complicated stuff they share with us in class. If I never see that equipment except in an hour of lab or a study room, I don't really get to experience how it works.

Also, we wouldn't have that stigma I keep hearing about. Heard about a chief who got to his first boat as 1st class because he get E-5 at NNPTC and got to stay as a junior instructor. Then he got E-6. Then he got to his boat. Bunch of people at the mess told him he was out of uniform. He told him he was new. He didn't earn a lot of respect. As soon as a non-nuke saw his uniform, all they saw was a 1st class without service stripes, ribbons, warfare pin, etc. If we got some experience and then went back to school, we'd get some of that out of the way, and we'd probably be fresher on the material when it comes to study time. Keep in mind, they teach us simple stuff at first then a bunch of complicated "how stuff works" stuff later. Then, I hear they put us on boats and tell us to go back to doing simple stuff. People are on hold of power school for like 3 months and then on hold for like 9 months for prototype. That's a whole year of doing nothing to learn or qualify. You forget a lot in that time and you could've been on a conventional ship doing some of your job and helping the navy instead.

[DDMurray]

.......Also, we wouldn't have that stigma I keep hearing about. Heard about a chief who got to his first boat as 1st class because he get E-5 at NNPTC and got to stay as a junior instructor. Then he got E-6. Then he got to his boat.

"Stigma" means they're jealous.  Are you supposed to not take advantage of chances to improve your lot in life?  In 1991, I made Chief.  A friend of mine and I went to the CPO club in our dress blues with one red service stripe each.  A crusty old bastard walked up to us and said something to the effect of, "Darn push-button nukes.  It took me 18 years to make Chief."  To which my friend replied, "Glad to see you finally got your shyte together."  Then we drank a beer together.  Good times.

WRT to the hold business.  It blows.  Get over it.  Years ago nukes used to go to conventional ships between A school and Nuke Power School.  It cost lots of money and there was some unplanned for attrition and some other things I don't remember, but the risk and cost did not outweigh the benefit.

[HalfHazzard]

Also, we wouldn't have that stigma I keep hearing about. Heard about a chief who got to his first boat as 1st class because he get E-5 at NNPTC and got to stay as a junior instructor. Then he got E-6. Then he got to his boat. Bunch of people at the mess told him he was out of uniform. He told him he was new. He didn't earn a lot of respect. As soon as a non-nuke saw his uniform, all they saw was a 1st class without service stripes, ribbons, warfare pin, etc.

First, anytime someone starts a sentence with, "I heard...", you can be 99% sure you don't need to listen. 

From your recent posts, I don't think you'll have this E-6's problem.

The NNPP is set up to train Nukes.  After serving on a submarine and a conventional surface ship, the mentality of formality, procedural compliance, complete system understanding, whatever other training term we're currently promoting in Nuke-land, is like night and day between nuke and conventional surface.

One of the benefits (I will not say "THE REASON") of "the way it is" now is the the only exposure you'll ever have to operating a Navy engine room is the zero-defect, always perfect, no mistakes mindset.  NNPP will not have to train you to stop saying, "well on my gas turbine plant (or oil fired steam, or diesel), I used to [insert practice abhorrent to nukes]"

The Officer and Chief leadership of the Nuclear navy will change the program when they think it needs changing.

[Starkist]

Good thread idea. I wish I could go out and do some maintenance as a conventional and come back to finish nuke school/prototype/whatever else they want me to do. If I could learn how to fix stuff/make it run, I can really understand the more complicated stuff they share with us in class. If I never see that equipment except in an hour of lab or a study room, I don't really get to experience how it works.

Also, we wouldn't have that stigma I keep hearing about. Heard about a chief who got to his first boat as 1st class because he get E-5 at NNPTC and got to stay as a junior instructor. Then he got E-6. Then he got to his boat. Bunch of people at the mess told him he was out of uniform. He told him he was new. He didn't earn a lot of respect. As soon as a non-nuke saw his uniform, all they saw was a 1st class without service stripes, ribbons, warfare pin, etc. If we got some experience and then went back to school, we'd get some of that out of the way, and we'd probably be fresher on the material when it comes to study time. Keep in mind, they teach us simple stuff at first then a bunch of complicated "how stuff works" stuff later. Then, I hear they put us on boats and tell us to go back to doing simple stuff. People are on hold of power school for like 3 months and then on hold for like 9 months for prototype. That's a whole year of doing nothing to learn or qualify. You forget a lot in that time and you could've been on a conventional ship doing some of your job and helping the navy instead.

You don't need stripes/anchors/bars on your uniform to beget respect...

Your "hands-on" time will ultimately come, as far as "oh this makes sense because I did it in the fleet!".... not quite. DEFINITELY for A-school, but not so much for power school, and even less so for the wire rates.

Your job and "helping the navy" is to qualify your NEC. Too many young sailors seem to forget that here. You are absolutely useless anywhere else then where you are now. Keep that in your head, and focus on what you have to do.


We had a couple "super-spu's" show up to our ship. One in particular had a rather large ego, but he wound up backing that up, qualifying all the way through watch supervisor in just over a year (passing chiefs that showed up on the ship before him). He's now a chief as well...

[GLW]

....One of the benefits (I will not say "THE REASON") of "the way it is" now is the the only exposure you'll ever have to operating a Navy engine room is the zero-defect, always perfect, no mistakes mindset.  NNPP will not have to train you to stop saying, "well on my gas turbine plant (or oil fired steam, or diesel), I used to [insert practice abhorrent to nukes]"....

Good point, the "tricks" used to keep DD 827 topped off with both fresh and feed water would make a nuke cringe,....

a lot,....

I learned early the "ustafish" was better left the "unsaidfish",....

[MoreHooyah]

I didn't mean to get anyone defensive when I made any comments about nukes being promoted quickly. All I was saying was that nukes, like myself, earn a lot of rank for 0 fleet experience, 0 qualifications, and 0 leadership experience. Meanwhile, our shipmates are out there for years, frequently leaving the navy as PO3 or lower. My suggestion was that nukes get some fleet experience while on hold so the respect we're owed due to rank was also earned based on experience. That's all I was saying.

My suggestion to improve things would be to send nukes to the fleet as conventional rates for 1 deployment in order to get inexperienced nukes some experience with basic maintenance, navigating ships, and earning qualifications. With this experience, I bet the scores at NPS would increase due to more hands-on learning and familiarity with the basics.

[drayer54]

My suggestion to improve things would be to send nukes to the fleet as conventional rates for 1 deployment in order to get inexperienced nukes some experience with basic maintenance, navigating ships, and earning qualifications. With this experience, I bet the scores at NPS would increase due to more hands-on learning and familiarity with the basics.

That's alot less time of those 6 years spent standing the watch that they actually need filled. I'd rather safely pump them out fast to man the plants.

The passing rates are clearly high enough or we would have less deployments.

Nukes don't need to navigate above the waterline, nonetheless from the bridge.

No way this is a cost efficient idea or convenient logistically.

Warfare can be earned later. Any other qual would be expired before they could do it again.

Leadership, well, can't really teach that one. I've seen experienced people who weren't worth their digicam blousing strap. I've seen new people who caught up quickly.Why waste the time figuring out if some other ship is going to screwed or a good deal?

I was never a big fan of the SPU E-6 or the "Never qualified Ex-RMC human answering machine with a baby E-6".....but I can't imagine how they could fix that idea. That's the result of an advancement system designed to cover cooks and nukes.

[Preciousblue1965]

Wow, nice to see this thread is STILL going. 

Having done just over a year in the commercial fleet, I can tell you there are some things that make life in the civilian plants more pleasant than the Navy.  If there was some way to make changes that moved towards some of those differences, I think it might just be a little better.

Fatigue Rules:  You are required by LAW to have so many hours off between on hours.  I know you would have difficult times implementing this in the Navy, but it would help.  No more keeping guys up all hours of the night for no good reason, especially when they aren't getting paid any extra(more on that next).  It would also make the command become more efficient at managing their workers.  Why be efficient, when you can just have all your guys stay around "just in case" with no budget or fatigue rules to worry about.

Overtime:  Look Nukes are first ones on, last ones off.  Has been and always will be.  But as previous posters have commented, we get paid a little over those guys that are kicking sand after colors everyday sitting on 10 section duty.  I know there was talk at one point about paying guys 100 per day for every day over a certain number for days underway in a year.  After 9/11 it got nixed when they realized how much it would cost.  IF they can do that, they I am sure they can come up with a way to get nukes some sort of bonus similar to overtime.  It is amazing how the knowledge that you are getting paid X dollars for every hour you are working on top of your normal pay, how your out look changes on quality of life.

Work load:  We are operators, maintenance techs, QA/QC, procedure writers, painters, and janitors.  Civilian world, that is all different departments.  I know it is not really possible to have a division of painters and cleaners, but at least acknoledge that we are doing the work load of several different groups of people. 

I will say that a couple of things good about the navy is that they more or less trust their operators to do menial tasks from memory(at least when I was still in).  In the civilian plant, you can't touch a valve without having some piece of paper in your hand that tells you to do itand only as often as it tells you. 

Just my two cents again.

[DLGN25]

Back in the day, it was 15-30 days between boot camp, A-school, nuke school, prototype, and then to the fleet or instructor duty.  I went in in March of 66, and reported aboard Bainbridge in May of 1968 as an E-5 RO.  I find what is happening these days as a disgrace and waste of tax payer's money.  To me it is amazing that an organization like NUCPWR, prideing itself on professionalism, yet cannot manage to move people through training in a timely fashion.

Sea/shore rotation was 2-3 years.  Nukes could, and did go to a non-nuke billets, but for no more then 2 years (I did as an LPO in OE division on Decatur), after which they then had to return to a nuke assignment to re-qualify, or if away from a nuke billet, they had to be sent back to prototype as a student.

As a nuke, underway, I pulled the 4-8 watch rotation, not bad, up at 03:30, stand watch, do a normal day work assignment, catch a nooner, back on watch 15:45, off watch, catch the movie, hit the rack at 22:30 and start it all over again.  That was underway, as there was nothing else to do, no big deal.

I left the Navy not because of the at sea hours, but because of the never ending three section or less in port duty rotation. Perhaps if the money for a nuke was as it is now, it would have been more tolerable, but even with the re-enlistment bonus it was not.  One of the suggestions from that period was to assign/rotate additional nukes to assist in port operations and reduce the work load, especially for the RO's as only they then stood shutdown watches.  

On the notion of sending a nuke to the conventional fleet, it is not a good one.  Not only are the standards lower there, leading to the development of bad habits, but the experience of 5 or better in port duty is one not easily forgotten.  When my enlistment was up, I attempted to get my nuke designator dropped, but to no avail.  Not even COMCRUSDESPAC could do it, then I got orders to Enterprise, it was then that I left the service.

Lastly, the issue of retention is not a big one for the Navy.  By design, in a static size fleet, you need attrition.  The reason is simple, there can only be so many Chiefs and E-6's, unless of course you expect those people to clean mats and bilges and do PMS.  The days of the chambray blue chief is long past.  

Being a Navy nuke is what it is.  You either like it or you do not.  

[GLW]

.... I find what is happening these days as a disgrace and waste of tax payer's money.  To me it is amazing that an organization like NUCPWR, prideing itself on professionalism, yet cannot manage to move people through training in a timely fashion.....

I'm not sure but it seems the logistics and attention to detail on security clearances is exponentially greater than when we were in,...

The touchy feely Navy spends a lot more time being sure everybody is physically and mentally healthy, and without a tour in SE Asia on a river boat or something else in country to motivate them the pipeline moves no faster than the slowest water slug in that line,...

Of course, I could be wrong,...

Sea/shore rotation was 2-3 years.  Nukes could, and did go to a non-nuke billets, but for no more then 2 years (I did as an LPO in OE division on Decatur), after which they then had to return to a nuke assignment to re-qualify, or if away from a nuke billet, they had to be sent back to prototype as a student.

By the early 80's sea / shore was 5 and 2, it was uncommon to go to a non-nuke billet, and definitely not before 5 years at sea, things getting worse vis a vis 1968,...

As a nuke, underway, I pulled the 4-8 watch rotation, not bad, up at 03:30, stand watch, do a normal day work assignment, catch a nooner, back on watch 15:45, off watch, catch the movie, hit the rack at 22:30 and start it all over again.  That was underway, as there was nothing else to do, no big deal.

I left the Navy not because of the at sea hours, but because of the never ending three section or less in port duty rotation. Perhaps if the money for a nuke was as it is now, it would have been more tolerable, but even with the re-enlistment bonus it was not.  One of the suggestions from that period was to assign/rotate additional nukes to assist in port operations and reduce the work load, especially for the RO's as only they then stood shutdown watches.  

In port was nearly always 4 section duty (6 maybe 8 if you were a blueshirt EDPO) on the SSN, port and stbd for the forward deployed boomers, pretty much 8 section on the destroyer I was ordered to before nuke school,...

Something is getting better in the 80's vis a vis 1968,...

I left the Navy because I was married, end of story,...

For me (singular), the Navy was the easiest job I ever had, have ever had,....

Show up on time, do what you're told, don't leave without checking out first, keep your head down and keep moving,...

Everything you need to advance, make more money, etc. is all laid out for you, all you have to do is pick it up, complete the cards, read the books, put in your time, take the exams and move on to the next chevron,...

All that hurt pride BS about being a nuclear janitor diving a bilge?!?!?!?

Oh please, it all paid the same, and you couldn't screw up diving a bilge or loading stores, imagine getting pro-pay as a blueshirt EWS/EDPO to dive a bilge while some piss poor A-ganger with the same number of stripes does similar or worse for less,....

On the notion of sending a nuke to the conventional fleet, it is not a good one.  Not only are the standards lower there, leading to the development of bad habits, but the experience of 5 or better in port duty is one not easily forgotten.  When my enlistment was up, I attempted to get my nuke designator dropped, but to no avail.  Not even COMCRUSDESPAC could do it, then I got orders to Enterprise, it was then that I left the service.

I liked the conventional Navy,...

When it was time to go nuke, I adapted to the new rules,...

Lastly, the issue of retention is not a big one for the Navy.  By design, in a static size fleet, you need attrition.  The reason is simple, there can only be so many Chiefs and E-6's, unless of course you expect those people to clean mats and bilges and do PMS.  The days of the chambray blue chief is long past.  

Seems like a static paradigm between '68 and '88,...

I don't know what a chambray blue chief is,...

Being a Navy nuke is what it is.

Yup,...

You either like it or you do not.  

Had I stayed in, I would have changed my paradigm,...

20+ years as a sea-shore rotating enlisted nuke is a bit long,...

I just figured I'd answer as you put so much effort into a thread which has been sucking wind for the better part of the last two years,....

At one time though, this thread was hopping,....

[Gamecock]

At one time though, this thread was hopping,....

A very smart man once said, "You can't fix the NNPP.... it ain't broke."

[GLW]

A very smart man once said, "You can't fix the NNPP.... it ain't broke."

It's one of my favorite gleanings from this thread,...

You can't fix the Navy, it's not broke.

[joncashk]

I don't understand all the hatred for Gold E-6's.  I used to think the same thing when I was going through the pipeline.  I would see a gold first class and immediately think that guy was a dirtbag.  This was mainly because most instructors were the ones who made Chief rather quickly and that's all I had been exposed to at that point.  After going to the fleet I saw a few who lived up to that stereotype, but definitely not all of them.  Some people just honestly do not desire to make E-7.  I include myself in that list at this time.

I don't think being a Chief is a bad thing at all, it's just not for me at this point in my career and life.  I've personally gotten myself in a position after 9 years in the Navy where it's going to take me at best 3 more years to make Chief, mainly because I went to an NRMD billet vice an instructor one.  That choice was mainly made because I was going through a divorce at the time and wanted a job that had more normal hours than prototype.  I had already pre-screened for prototype, I just didn't want that schedule. And with the somewhat normal schedule I have here I managed to start a new social life and get remarried.  I've since taken orders to decom a ship, which more than likely means no PPWS for me.  Since I just started a new family I'm fine with sacrificing advancement for not being deployed the first few years of my marriage. 

Some people enjoy being middle-management and enjoy the pay-to-responsibility ratio.  I may be viewed as a "dirtbag" to some, probably people on this board included.  I consider myself knowledgeable and hard working, and I have the evals to prove it so I'm fine with that.  At the end of the day I have less responsibility and I will get to go home earlier and more frequently than a Chief and spend that time with my family. 

If at any time the Navy tells me I have to make E-7 to retire I will buckle down and do my best to accomplish that, since that will benefit my family.  But until then I'll be just fine retiring as a gold E-6.  And as long as the Navy continues to allow it, there are going to be people like me. 

[eaton1981]

I don't follow your reasoning/logic.

A) Why is it going to take 3 years for you to be up for chief? Are you referring to the myth that you need Ews/PPWS to get your anchors? As recently as 2011's chief results, we had two CPO-Selects without ever having qualed watch sup.

B) How does making more money as an E7 not benefit your family? I understand that a chief stays later at times, and is generally prone to be more stressed. But the retirement pay of an E7 compared to an E6 drawn out over the latter half of your life equates to tens of thousands of dollars. Imho, that's worth the extra headache.

Generally speaking, the gold crows are disrespected due to their unwillingness to give a damn about their job or do hard work. This has been my experience with ALL I have met met. If you're an exception to that generalization, then kudos, but that is basically the reasoning behind the "hatred" for gold E6's.

[HeavyD]

The general thinking of the selection board in the past, since at least 2000, is that as a Chief the watch you will be standing is EWS/PPWS.  Since the Master Chiefs sitting the board expect those sailors they select to already be doing the job of a Chief, the expectation exists.  Those selected in years past without having been qualified had something else in their record to demonstrate "Sustained Superior Performance", the super phrase for becoming a member of the Mess.

Now, having said all that, everyone's personal opinion is now a moot point.  The below quote is from NAVADMIN 349/11 - JANUARY 2012 E7 NAVY-WIDE EXAMINATION AND FY13 ACTIVE E7 SELECTION BOARD CYCLE 214

"I.  SPECIAL REQUIREMENTS FOR NUCLEAR TRAINED PERSONNEL.
TO BE SELECTION BOARD ELIGIBLE FOR E7, PERSONNEL IN NUCLEAR RATINGS MUST HAVE QUALIFIED AS ENGINEERING WATCH SUPERVISOR (EWS) OR PROPULSION PLANT WATCH SUPERVISOR (PPWS).  IF A MEMBER'S OFFICIAL RECORD DOES NOT ALREADY INCLUDE DOCUMENTATION OF EWS OR PPWS QUALIFICATION, THIS DOCUMENTATION MUST BE RECEIVED BY PERS-802 BY 4 JUNE 2012. ACCEPTABLE DOCUMENTATION OF EWS OR PPWS QUALIFICATION INCLUDES (1) AN EVALUATION WITH "EWS" OR "PPWS" IN BLOCK 29, OR
(2) A LETTER FROM THE MEMBER'S COMMAND FORWARDED TO THE BOARD VIA THE MEMBER WHICH CERTIFIES EWS OR PPWS QUALIFICATION."

So, according to that requirement, if a First Class isn't EWS/PPWS qualified by the given date, they won't make Chief because they won't be SEL (Selection Board Eligible).

As for the title of this post, the program isn't broken; it's different.

We experienced a stretch where boats/ships were almost always undermanned.  One of the reasons come up with was the program's high attrition rate.  ADM Bowman, DNR for most of the early 2000's, made a point that attrition needed to be lowered because we were not giving enough deserving sailors a chance to overcome some initial failures.  Again, whether we agree with his sentiment or not is irrelevant.  The NNPP is what it is.  Adapt and overcome, deal with it and move on, continuing to perform at our highest as individuals while pushing others to do the same.

[GLW]

....ADM Bowman, DNR for most of the early 2000's, made a point that attrition needed to be lowered because we were not giving enough deserving sailors a chance to overcome some initial failures.  Again, whether we agree with his sentiment or not is irrelevant.....

I could be wrong but, the NRC does not adhere to that sentiment when it comes to granting operating licenses,...

So, if you're a sailor in the NNPP, succeeding due to ADM Bowman's sentiment, you might want to consider staying in the USN, as the attrition rate for former sailors in license class is observably (if not empirically) higher than it used to be,...

of course, I could be wrong,...

if I am, some of the licensed posters here will be sure to correct me,...

I will respectfully suffer the blows of such correction,...

(well, 99 out of 100 of them anyways),...

in all cases, we thank you for your service,...

(sic)

[Higgs]

I could be wrong but, the NRC does not adhere to that sentiment when it comes to granting operating licenses,...

So, if you're a sailor in the NNPP, succeeding due to ADM Bowman's sentiment, you might want to consider staying in the USN, as the attrition rate for former sailors in license class is observably (if not empirically) higher than it used to be,...

of course, I could be wrong,...

if I am, some of the licensed posters here will be sure to correct me,...

I will respectfully suffer the blows of such correction,...

(well, 99 out of 100 of them anyways),...

in all cases, we thank you for your service,...

(sic)

You're correct. The success rate of Navy nukes was never that great to begin with, but has been worsening. In my 5 short years in the biz, I've seen officers, chiefs and first classes go down in flames. BZ might be have a better feel for the numbers, but I think the failure rate of Navy nukes hovers right around 55-60% right now, industry wide. You do have some places that have better success with them than others. I think that comes down to the quality of the training department AND the candidate.

Besides licensing, I've seen fewer Navy nukes being hired into the NLO ranks at my places of employment. The utility has been opting for people out of college with engineering degrees and other relevant experience instead of a 6 and out Navy nuke.

Skim these forums..., how many 6 and out Navy nukes post about struggling to find a job?

I'm not saying correlation equals causation..., but something has changed over the years.

And again, that is just from what I've experienced over my short 5 years.

Justin

[Gamecock]

You're correct. The success rate of Navy nukes was never that great to begin with, but has been worsening. In my 5 short years in the biz, I've seen officers, chiefs and first classes go down in flames. BZ might be have a better feel for the numbers, but I think the failure rate of Navy nukes hovers right around 55-60% right now, industry wide. You do have some places that have better success with them than others. I think that comes down to the quality of the training department AND the candidate.

Besides licensing, I've seen fewer Navy nukes being hired into the NLO ranks at my places of employment. The utility has been opting for people out of college with engineering degrees and other relevant experience instead of a 6 and out Navy nuke.

Skim these forums..., how many 6 and out Navy nukes post about struggling to find a job?

I'm not saying correlation equals causation..., but something has changed over the years.

And again, that is just from what I've experienced over my short 5 years.

Justin

I talked to a recruiter from Palo Verde just last month and he told me that his utility is no longer hiring instant SRO.