Noob Nuke Navy questions

[m75]

Hey all, my first post here on nukeworker, i've been spending the last week going through the archives to answer some of my questions. First a little on my background. I'm a 26yr old 2005 College graduate 3.6 GPA, Computer Science (BS). I'm currently working a civilian computer programmer job, but I've always wanted to join the military a serve my country. Most would call me crazy for wanting leaving to my current job as I have an excellent salary (over 75k) and work environment, but at the end of the day I'm just a desk jockey, not a shred of excitement/adventure in my day other than more and more lines of computer code (but I digress). I like my job, just don't want to grow old and regret never serving.

I looked into the Army and Marines, but I've been looking more into the navy nuclear program cause I believe I have what it takes to make it through the program. I know how to study, I'm mature, a fitness freak, and 12 hour days don't scare me. I was looking into the NUPOC OCS program, but I don't qualify. I have 2 years of calculus but not a single semester of calc based physics. So to even qualify for NUPOC I'd have to go back to school and take those 2 classes which would take at least a full year, and ace the DC interview. So I am now looking at the enlisted program, which would consist of going to a recruiter and scoring high on ASVAB (which I can do in my sleep), and getting an age waiver (which for nukes they give out like candy). I  mean the enlisted route isn't bad, sure life will suck when your unqual'ed, your sometimes surrounded by immature high school kids and you will have to do annoying things like TAD but once you make CPO you can really lead and make a difference. I like Chiefs role, they are experienced, respected, lead by knowledge, and have the ability to mentor younger crew. I don't care what school you went to a JO isn't sh!t without a Chief. Also enlisted crews need smart driven individuals like myself.

So after the intro, I've got a few questions:

1. (Yes I know this has been asked a billion times but need an opinion from priors here) I keep reading around here and other forums that if you have a degree you should go officer cause its undermanned and life is much better (not sure if that's true). Given my situation, should I try for officer? I really don't care about the $$$, either way (officer or enlisted) I'm going to be making far less than what I'm currently making and could potentially make.

2. LDO's (mustangs) can not be in command of a division on subs. Is it true that LDO/CWO's can become in charge of a division on a CVN? If not, where do nuke LDO's/CWO's serve?

3. Can a bull nuke eventually become COB or is bull nuke the highest a nuke can go (which is virtually the same as a COB). The reason why I ask is because COB is chief of the entire ship whereas bull nuke is chief of the reactor.

4. Can someone list all the quals for MM. I know for ET its SEO, SRO, and RO. What are the quals for MM?

5. Is it true that the top graduates of NPTU can get an option of skipping sea duty and go back to NNPS or NPTU as an instructor without underway time?

6. Is nuke A school (EM, MM, ET) run as a self taught course? Basically very few instructor run classes?

thanks

[JustinHEMI05]

I have to make some popcorn, then I will get back to ya.

Justin

[Smooth Operator]

Hey all, my first post here on nukeworker, i've been spending the last week going through the archives to answer some of my questions. First a little on my background. I'm a 26yr old 2005 College graduate 3.6 GPA, Computer Science (BS). I'm currently working a civilian computer programmer job, but I've always wanted to join the military a serve my country. Most would call me crazy for wanting leaving to my current job as I have an excellent salary (over 75k) and work environment, but at the end of the day I'm just a desk jockey, not a shred of excitement/adventure in my day other than more and more lines of computer code (but I digress). I like my job, just don't want to grow old and regret never serving.

I looked into the Army and Marines, but I've been looking more into the navy nuclear program cause I believe I have what it takes to make it through the program. I know how to study, I'm mature, a fitness freak, and 12 hour days don't scare me. I was looking into the NUPOC OCS program, but I don't qualify. I have 2 years of calculus but not a single semester of calc based physics. So to even qualify for NUPOC I'd have to go back to school and take those 2 classes which would take at least a full year, and ace the DC interview. So I am now looking at the enlisted program, which would consist of going to a recruiter and scoring high on ASVAB (which I can do in my sleep), and getting an age waiver (which for nukes they give out like candy). I  mean the enlisted route isn't bad, sure life will suck when your unqual'ed, your sometimes surrounded by immature high school kids and you will have to do annoying things like TAD but once you make CPO you can really lead and make a difference. I like Chiefs role, they are experienced, respected, lead by knowledge, and have the ability to mentor younger crew. I don't care what school you went to a JO isn't sh!t without a Chief. Also enlisted crews need smart driven individuals like myself.

So after the intro, I've got a few questions:

1. (Yes I know this has been asked a billion times but need an opinion from priors here) I keep reading around here and other forums that if you have a degree you should go officer cause its undermanned and life is much better (not sure if that's true). Given my situation, should I try for officer? I really don't care about the $$$, either way (officer or enlisted) I'm going to be making far less than what I'm currently making and could potentially make.

2. LDO's (mustangs) can not be in command of a division on subs. Is it true that LDO/CWO's can become in charge of a division on a CVN? If not, where do nuke LDO's/CWO's serve?

3. Can a bull nuke eventually become COB or is bull nuke the highest a nuke can go (which is virtually the same as a COB). The reason why I ask is because COB is chief of the entire ship whereas bull nuke is chief of the reactor.

4. Can someone list all the quals for MM. I know for ET its SEO, SRO, and RO. What are the quals for MM?

5. Is it true that the top graduates of NPTU can get an option of skipping sea duty and go back to NNPS or NPTU as an instructor without underway time?

6. Is nuke A school (EM, MM, ET) run as a self taught course? Basically very few instructor run classes?

thanks

1. Go officer
2. Only enlisted personnel can become LDO or CWO after many years (at least 8 and only Chiefs can become CWOs) so don't worry about it.
3. A nuke can become a COB or a CMC of a surface vessel but its after said nuke has done his EDMC tour and probably a few other wickets.
4.MM: ERLL, ERUL, ERF, ERML(SSBN), ERS, EWS and possibly TH, RT, EO, SEO and maybe ELT if he has the NEC.
5. No, but they can put it off for a couple of years and stay at Proto after grad, but alas, the sea awaits.
6. No, it is most definitely not self taught.

[Gamecock]

Just to answer one question for you.....

99% of all nuke LDO's do their sea tours on CVN's.
There are exceptions.....If a submarine is going into an extended shipyard availability, they may be billeted an assistant engineer that will be an LDO job.

Junior LDO's don't usually lead a division.  They are usually technical assistants to one of the principal assistants in Reactor Department. 

[HydroDave63]

I like Chiefs role, they are experienced, respected, lead by knowledge, and have the ability to mentor younger crew. I don't care what school you went to a JO isn't sh!t without a Chief.

And you would know any of this how ?!? Watched a movie or two?

Also enlisted crews need smart driven individuals like myself.

Unencumbered by humility, at that

So after the intro, I've got a few questions:

1. Yes I know this has been asked a billion times

exactly

Given my situation, should I try for officer?

If one operates under the raft of preconceptions listed above, won't use already posted information (training info by any other name) and wishes to avoid sea time (Q.#5 ), then it begs the logical question: What makes you think you can lead other sailors

[Fermi2]

WOW we have a "winner" !!

[m75]

I phrased #5 wrong, I asked because I heard about a female nuke who graduated top of the her class at NPTU and then ended up as an instructor. Wanted to see if that was even possible or a BS story. I want to go to sea (of course some one will post be careful what you wish for etc...), and have no problem going to sea. HydroDave63, I stated that about Chiefs from reading a few books, granted its not the best source of info, but one of the few I can gather. The reason why I ask about officer/enlisted is because with the military once you sign on the dotted line you are locked in for a number of years depending on what you choose. Its not something should choose lightly. I believe I can lead and also follow, and I'm trying to see which role the Navy would want me to be in.

I asked about the LDO/CWO because I ran across this (yes its a bit dated) but it lists billets open for LDOs and I see a number of sub and surface, although I have no clue what they mean
http://www.npc.navy.mil/NR/rdonlyres/9E17DA38-AA50-418E-81B5-916850D84798/0/LATESTLDOManning1APR08.xls

keep the responses coming

[withroaj]

Yes, you have the option to stay on at NPTU as an instructor.  It's a great way to learn more about your job before going to the fleet, but it's also a great way to develop an out-of-control ego before going to the fleet.  If you have a degree but aren't elegible to go nuke, take another officer program.  I'm having a good time as enlisted scum, but I don't have a degree.  You have a degree.  Take the job that requires a degree.  Going enlisted at this point for you would be like getting your degree so you could work as a janitor for a living (though the Navy will also give you some experience as a waiter and dishwasher, as well).  You might not get the Nuke "Prestige," but you'll still have the opportunity to serve in the Navy.

[HydroDave63]

I asked about the LDO/CWO because I ran across this (yes its a bit dated) but it lists billets open for LDOs and I see a number of sub and surface, although I have no clue what they mean
http://www.npc.navy.mil/NR/rdonlyres/9E17DA38-AA50-418E-81B5-916850D84798/0/LATESTLDOManning1APR08.xls

honestly, www.military.com might be a better place for broad-spectrum questions such as those. We here at nukeworker like to focus on the Care and Feeding of nuclear power plants. Since your background is pretty IT-intensive, you may find that Strategic Systems interest you, or maybe the Navy's SPAWAR mission. Both are really cool and important to the nation, but aren't really what we do here. Ditto for Army's Future Combat Systems, or AF's SPACECOM world. All of them are important, but not what we do here.

[braveliltoast3r]

If you have an excellent, well-paying, low stress job, but are looking for a way to serve, maybe you should consider the Reserves. Just putting all the options on the table...

[Gamecock]

You have a degree.  Take the job that requires a degree.  Going enlisted at this point for you would be like getting your degree so you could work as a janitor for a living (though the Navy will also give you some experience as a waiter and dishwasher, as well). 

I disagree with you here............
There are plenty of enlisted folks with college degrees.

[kp88]

I  mean the enlisted route isn't bad, sure life will suck when your unqual'ed, your sometimes surrounded by immature high school kids and you will have to do annoying things like TAD but once you make CPO you can really lead and make a difference. I like Chiefs role, they are experienced, respected, lead by knowledge, and have the ability to mentor younger crew.

5. Is it true that the top graduates of NPTU can get an option of skipping sea duty and go back to NNPS or NPTU as an instructor without underway time?

thanks

You do know that it might take a few years to make Chief, don't you?    You're not going to enlist as an instructor.  You will be one once you qualify your watchstation, but the Navy fully intends for you to do that out in the middle of the ocean somewhere.  They certainly didn't waste any time sending me out to sea.

[kp88]

If you have an excellent, well-paying, low stress job, but are looking for a way to serve, maybe you should consider the Reserves. Just putting all the options on the table...

No pay, high stress, and rewarding jobs are available through the Red Cross, USO, Volunteer Fire Departments, and many other fine organizations throughout the country.

[withroaj]

I disagree with you here............
There are plenty of enlisted folks with college degrees.

That's true, and many of the enlisted people who had degrees when they joined still find enlisted nuke life challenging and rewarding.  The NNPP is also a great path to a military career or a job in a commercial nuke facility, which should be a growing industry if energy companies can get permission/capital to build new plants.

m75 - If you feel like you're spinning your wheels in the IT field, saddle up pardner.  You might take a pay cut coming in, but you will be able to learn some things you never even knew could be so cool; and you will be able to work on an aircraft carrier or a submarine, both of which are very cool (and if you do decide to join, be sure to remember how cool the stuff is when hard times hit).

[Preciousblue1965]

As far as CVN watchstations for a MM

MMR watches
Chief Machinery Operator, Engine Room Upper Level, ERLL, Ships Generator Watch, Reboiler Watch, Shaft Alley Patrol, and on some there are Auxillary operator, 4th Deck watch, and sometimes SGW are split into two watches.

Reactor Aux. Room
Chief Reactor Watch, Reactor Aux Watch, Coolant Generator Watch, Charging Station, Feed Pumps(really really hot in the gulf, about 150F or so), Feed Control. THere might be a few others on some ships but not others.  Depends on the RX dept.

Non-Traditional MM watches
Throttleman, Load Dispatcher, Water control Watch, and just about any other watch except RO. I have seen an EM qual all the way through CRW so he could go into EWS quals

Of course after some time on the pond, there is always PPWS and if you are really good PPWO for an enlisted chief is not unheard of.

[Gamecock]

Non-Traditional MM watches
Throttleman, Load Dispatcher, Water control Watch, and just about any other watch except RO. I have seen an EM qual all the way through CRW so he could go into EWS quals

Never heard of a MM qualifying Load Dispatcher.  Even though PE is considered SIR for a surface EM, LD is the Holy Grail of watchstations for them.

[DSO]

but once you make CPO you can really lead and make a difference. I like Chiefs role, they are experienced, respected, lead by knowledge, and have the ability to mentor younger crew. I don't care what school you went to a JO isn't sh!t without a Chief

Wrong there Junior--do some time on the pond--All Chiefs are not respected and do not necessarily have leadership ability--just as all managers or supervisors in the civilian world are not necessarily good leaders or respected either--Have you ever heard of being a "yes man" and playing politics well?? Additionally--if you are a fitness buff--you better learn how to improvise when working out in engine room aft btween the r-114's on a 688 class sub when doing angles and dangles--ie rubber pads on the deck and falling on the weights to prevent rolling

[Preciousblue1965]

Never heard of a MM qualifying Load Dispatcher.  Even though PE is considered SIR for a surface EM, LD is the Holy Grail of watchstations for them.

I dont have first hand knowledge of it, but an old buddy of mine knew an MM that did it.  Take it for what you will, but I took him for his word on it. 

I did qualify THW on a carrier as an M Div Mechanic just for the heck of it.  Made the THW LOK interview with MTT really easy when they kept asking questions about how bearings work and Main Engine construction.

[Mnemorath]

If you want to go the LDO route, you have to be enilsted as stated. However I do know of a few LDO O-4/5's that were in charge of divisions on carriers. PA's really. As far as I knew the RO was a line officer, however I did personally know of one a-hole of an RMA who was a LDO.


No, I am not naming names.

[Gamecock]

If you want to go the LDO route, you have to be enilsted as stated. However I do know of a few LDO O-4/5's that were in charge of divisions on carriers. PA's really. As far as I knew the RO was a line officer, however I did personally know of one a-hole of an RMA who was a LDO.

RMA is a LCDR LDO billet on all CVNs. 

[m75]

If you have an excellent, well-paying, low stress job, but are looking for a way to serve, maybe you should consider the Reserves. Just putting all the options on the table...

Trust me, I thought of that already but lets just say my company is not very military friendly. If you don't have your blackberry attached to your hip you catch hell for it, just one example.

When I first posted I lost sight of the original intent of the post which was to gain info on the nuclear navy program. This is going off on a bit of a tangent let me try to give a little background on wanting to join the nuclear program. I want to serve in the military. Initially, I looked to the reserves but realistically it won't workout as I have plenty of 12 hr days currently and a guardsmen I spoke to a few weeks ago said his job is more than just 1 weekend a month now. So then I looked to the active force. Since I'm in decent shape (I can run 5 miles in about 45 mins etc..), I thought of Army/Marines. But given my technical background I felt I would be wasting my knowledge (which I spent 4yrs getting) had I gone that route. So then I looked at the Navy.

I read OCS was a crap shoot so I eliminated that option (why spend 5-8 months applying, and potenitally not getting the rating you want). The I came across the nuclear program, it has "made for nerds" all over it. Everyone says its hard and difficult academically and thats why I'm interested in it. I heard from an nuke OCS candidate that the nuclear officer is pretty undermanned and they would take anyone who is qualified at the minimum level. But given my circumstance if I were to take the 2 physics classes need now, that would put me at a Fall 09 timeframe when I can apply then tack on a few months for applications  and boards to clear, I realistically wont be getting a slot til 2010. Who knows what the nuclear navy would look like by then.

I don't qualify for any other commisioning programs like NROTC, STA-21 since I already have a degree. Thats why I initially asked about LDO/CWO just incase I enlisted and wanted to go officer at some point.

So enlisting is my only viable nuke navy option. But everywhere I read there was someone similar to my situation (some even posted here), asking the same question whether to enlist or go officer, and everyone (prior servicemen) says if you have a degree go officer, with no explanation. The only difference I know between the two is that officers make the decisions and set out the objectives, its up to the enlisted crew to carry it out. I'm comfortable with either role.

Wrong there Junior--do some time on the pond--All Chiefs are not respected and do not necessarily have leadership ability--just as all managers or supervisors in the civilian world are not necessarily good leaders or respected either--Have you ever heard of being a "yes man" and playing politics well??

Sure the Navy doesn't have its bright spots but that happens everywhere, including my current job. I know a bunch of "yes men", purely stupid managers who have no business managing, and I have experienced having people steal my ideas for their own personal gain. That happens every day in the civilian world and I'm pretty sure it happens in the Navy. But atleast my civilian years prior to me joining have exposed me to this so in a sense I am a bit more prepared than say your average 18yr old high school recruit who thinks the Navy is exactly what the recruiter told them. I know, rather I have read that life at sea will suck and the Navy is not really "fair", but its not that different to the civilian world.

trust me I have done tons of research in the previous days and I think the nuclear program would be a great place to serve. I don't know everything a potential recruit should know but I think I have a good grasp of it (see below)

Boot camp -> "A" school -> NNPS -> NPTU -> sent to boat, males only /carrier aka target for both  -> NUB until you qualify, life will suck, you will regret joining -> qualify in your watchstations -> qualify on the boat (dolphins) -> work up to deployment -> work 12-16hr days -> sacrafice sleep to keep working 6 months out at sea -> repeat repeat repeat

Additionally--if you are a fitness buff--you better learn how to improvise when working out in engine room aft btween the r-114's on a 688 class sub when doing angles and dangles--ie rubber pads on the deck and falling on the weights to prevent rolling

true, but all you really need is a spot and you can get a great workout. I don't use weights, just do calisthenics. But this is getting off topic.


hope this explains my inital post a bit more, and clarify things. It seems I posted too many questions that have no association with each other and its giving the wrong impression.

keep the posts coming

[Preciousblue1965]

Boot camp -> "A" school -> NNPS -> NPTU -> sent to boat, males only /carrier aka target for both  -> NUB until you qualify, life will suck, you will regret joining -> qualify in your watchstations -> qualify on the boat (dolphins) -> work up to deployment -> work 12-16hr days -> sacrafice sleep to keep working 6 months out at sea -> repeat repeat repeat

I would say that he has DEFINITELY done his research on here.  Although you forgot the portion about selling your soul for the big bonus money and going back to Prototype becuase "at least it is shore duty and it can't be worse than being on the ship".

[JustinHEMI05]

Trust me, I thought of that already but lets just say my company is not very military friendly. If you don't have your blackberry attached to your hip you catch hell for it, just one example.

Good thing there are laws for that.


Good thing I made popcorn. 

I knew this was going to be a good thread.

Justin

[JustinHEMI05]

"at least it is shore duty and it can't be worse than being on the ship".

I am going to crack open a beer.

Back on topic.

Good luck in whatever decision you come to. You are obviously doing your homework and that will serve you well down the road. Lots of good advice here, along with tough love. I am impressed by your eagerness to serve. Not many would give up what you say you have in order to join the military.

Again though, I must agree with those that you should try the ogang route first. If you are dead set on nuke, then enlisting is the guaranteed route.

Justin

[Wareal]

My son is currently a SPU (staff pick up) at Ballston Spa.  He was picked up fresh out of prototype.  So it is surely possible.  Star reenlisting comes with the territory if you get picked up, meaning you have an eight year commitment instead of six.       

This is the only website I frequent where the free advice is actually worth something.  The current and former Navy nukes here are a great asset for seekers like you (and me) who want information.  They will give you the good, the bad, and the ugly. 

The military performs a vital service to the nation.  Not everyone can be a Navy Nuke.  I'm convinced, at some point, the vast majority of Navy nukes take great pride and solace knowing they are doing something very unique and meaningful with their lives. 

I know the motivators are certainly not the pay, the hours, or the working conditions.