Navy Nuke Questions

[ashley027]

I am planning the join the Navy to go into the Nuclear Power Program. I am having my doubts with what the Navy recruiters are telling me, so I want to make everything clear before I sign anything.

First, I scored an 86 on the AFQT. The recruiters told me I had to take another exam. I believe it is the Napt if I'm not mistaken. But I find it highly suspicious that they would make me go to MEPS for the physical, and then enlist afterwards. AND THEN I get to take the Napt. Why can't I take the Napt before I enlist just to see if I qualify? Also, they mention it looks "bad" that I deny all of the jobs that are offered at MEPS if they don't have a nuke position available. 

Second, I have a Bachelor of Science Degree, so I heard of this loan repayment program that the Navy offers. Would I qualify for both the enlistment bonus and the loan repayment program?

[G-reg]

You are wise to question those Recruiters.  It seems that they are placing their interests ahead of yours.

If Nuke is what you truly want, then hold out for it - don't sign anything unless & until you receive a Nuke contract.

At some point in the enlistment process, you will be required to sign a piece of paper which includes a statement that verbal promises made by your Recruiter (or anybody else) mean zilch.  If they make a promise or a statement and they mean it, then they can put it in writing and get it reviewed/approved by their boss.

And if they think that something looks "bad", then they can damn well put that in writing too (unless of course it's a complete load of crap - which in the particular case you mentioned, it is).

Perhaps you should look for a Navy Recruiting office in another nearby town...

[HydroDave63]

Perhaps you should look for a Navy Recruiting office in another nearby town...

I second the motion!

[empills]

The second test they mentioned is for going into the nuke program. Mostly physics,algebra and trig. They should give it to you before your physical at least they did for me. If you fail it don't let them pressure you into another job. Tell them you want to retake it at a later date if nuke is what you want. If they won't let you then walk out. Remember your not in till you sign a contract.

[DDMurray]

I am planning the join the Navy to go into the Nuclear Power Program. I am having my doubts with what the Navy recruiters are telling me, so I want to make everything clear before I sign anything.

First, I scored an 86 on the AFQT. The recruiters told me I had to take another exam. I believe it is the Napt if I'm not mistaken. But I find it highly suspicious that they would make me go to MEPS for the physical, and then enlist afterwards. AND THEN I get to take the Napt. Why can't I take the Napt before I enlist just to see if I qualify? Also, they mention it looks "bad" that I deny all of the jobs that are offered at MEPS if they don't have a nuke position available. 

Second, I have a Bachelor of Science Degree, so I heard of this loan repayment program that the Navy offers. Would I qualify for both the enlistment bonus and the loan repayment program?

When I joined 25 years ago, The NFQT was only given at the MEPS station.  G-reg's advice is spot on.  Not sure about your bonus situation.

[NukeLDO]

With a BS degree why are you looking to enlist?  You should be talking to one of the officer recruiters.  Unless of course, you've done that research and just decided enlisted is what you want to do....

[Harley Rider]

These guys are clowns and are just trying to "insure" that their precious quota is met. They tried the same thing on me 25 years ago and I told them to pack sand. They quickly scurried into a huddle and lo and behold I was given a "special exemption" to take the NFQT prior to enlisting. Did they offer the NFQT practice test to you at the recruiting station? It will give you a feel on how you would do on the real one. If you have a 4 year degree you need to go Officer. If you ask your current enlisted recruiter about it he is bound to tell you: You have to apply after / during boot camp OR You do not qualify yet because (insert reason here) enlist and apply after Nuke School. Additionally, I bet they won't be too helpful in supplying you with the Nuclear Officer recruiter's information so here it is: http://www.navy.com/findarecruiter/   Go to that URL, type in your zip code, call the number for the Officer recruiter and tell these other guys to jump off a cliff. Hope this helps,,,Jeez recruiters like these piss me off.

[metoo]

Ditto what all above have said.  Although nothing stays the same, and it has been 25 years since I first became a Nuke, there are way too many things the recruiter is telling you that are just pure Bull!  The advice you're being given probably carries many times the experience of that one recruiter.

I took the NFQT at my high school.  There was one nerd who wanted to take it, but couldn't get a ride to the place where it was administered.  The recruiter said if there were 12 people who wanted to take it, they would administer it at the school.  My guidance counsellor snagged 11 other guys who had the grades and ASVAB scores and requested we take it so she could get it administered for that one nerd.  I'd never heard about being a nuke.  So, I took it, passed it by one point.  The recruiter couldn't walk by a phone for a year without calling me.   The rest is history.  The Nerd didn't pass. 

Run to another recruiter, and please, if there's a method, file a complaint against the guy who was BSing you.  Good honest recruiters have a tough enough job without these jerks making them look like bad used car salesman.

[HydroDave63]

I am planning the join the Navy to go into the Nuclear Power Program. I am having my doubts with what the Navy recruiters are telling me, so I want to make everything clear before I sign anything.

How did this turn out?

[itsaparent]

I'm seeing a really good marketing opportunity around here,....

Prior enlisteds who can "advise" potential recruits for a reasonable fee,...

we'll go to the recruiter with you, help you with your pre-enlistment paperwork and contracts. etc,...

Not as a detriment to recruitment, but as a fair, objective analysis of what you're getting yourself into from the folks who have been there and done that,.....

It's such a good idea it must be illegal,......

or there's just no money in it,.....

I would like a web site that all high schools and colleges can refer potential recruits to...and better yet, that by recruit command rules, all recruiters must refer their potential recruits to. 

[HydroDave63]

I would like a web site that all high schools and colleges can refer potential recruits to...and better yet, that by recruit command rules, all recruiters must refer their potential recruits to. 

Or something like Angie's List, where a potential recruit could leave feedback and comments on specific recruiters and recruiting stations/MEPS !

[Bullnuke]

I would like to introduce myself. I am the current Nuclear Enlisted Community Manager and Quality Control Adviser in Washington. I will answer any question involving Nuclear Enlistments of new recruits, Nuclear NECs, Current SRB changes, or any other related Navy Nuclear questions. I can also be reached at Bullnuke@navy.mil.

I screen about 2500 waivers a year for those applying/ screening for the Nuclear Power.
I also have tremendous influence over any recruiting process that involves nukes.

If Ashley027 needs to know anything about the recruiting process I have all the instructions available.

[HydroDave63]

Sounds like there is a pervasive integrity issue, Angie027's post isn't the first or second of these recruiter scams we've seen here!

http://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php?topic=7977.0

http://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php?topic=15908.0

[Bullnuke]

A salesman is a salesman reguardless. You should always research a deciion as big as this one.

An 86 AFQT with the proper line scores can exempt candidates from taking the NAPT completely. Without the line scores I cant speak to this case.

Usually the process works like this. You take the Asvab in the morning at MEPS (if you have not already taken it), then you go though the phyical (needs to know if the applicant has any disqualifyers for certain jobs, then the NAPT is given to those applicants who qualify in all other respects for Nuclear Power.

If Nuclear power is your first choice do not sign up for another program until you know if Nuke is available to you.

I have been seeing an increased number of applicants with 4 year degrees due to the economy and the same is true of officer recruiting as well. Because of the increased interest, the GPA for officer candidates has increased especially for Nuclear Power.

[G-reg]

A salesman is a salesman reguardless.

I find myself bristling at this statement.  These people (i.e. Recruiters) are in a position of TRUST, in addition to being members of our Armed Services.  If they are going to conduct themselves as "salesmen", then I would prefer that they didn't do it wearing the same uniform that I wore and that many, many good people who bled for this Country wore.

Recruiters should encourage young men and women to join the Service without becoming salesmen - and let's not be coy here, we both know "salesman" in this context is merely a euphemism for "liar".  The crock these professionals tried to feed this young person is simply beyond excuse or rationalization.  The behavior described above, while sadly not unprecedented, is worthy only of contempt.

[metoo]

Although most of my experiences with salesman do support the idea that salesman = Liar, that doesn't have to be the case.  When I started my business over a decade ago, I soon realized that although I make things, if I wanted to continue to eat, I was going to have to sell those things.  Having a general distaste for the "profession" of sales, I did some research to see if there was a way to do it that I could sleep with.  One of the best resources I found is a book called Non-Manipulative Selling, by Tony Alessandra and Phil Wexler & Rick Barrera. 

This book basically tries to teach a person to listen, educate customers, and sell what will serve the client best.  Sometimes that's the most expensive item, sometimes that's not to sell to them at all, but recommend something else from someone else, or nothing at all.  Basically, it's treating your customers with the same regard you would a friend.  By getting a reputation for looking out for the interest of the customer, and not your own short term self-interest, you build a reputation and customers over time, and profit.  There are a few times I can remember when a good sales person actually helped me make an informed purchase.  It's rare, but it happens! 

Our recruiters, especially those recruiting nukes who will have a tremendous amount of potential responsibility in their hands in just a year or two, need to be very forthright and above board.  Lying is no way to begin a relationship.  My recruiter, a PR1, didn't know his arse from a hole in the ground when it came to the nuke program, but that's OK.  He put me in touch with a couple active duty Nukes that had already gotten to their first boat, and a Nuke that was already out working at a plant making an unheard of (at that time) $40,000 per year.  The point is he didn't have to have intimate knowledge of Nuke life, he put me together with the real thing.  The basics of how much money, how much school, choices available, etc., I'm sure that's all written down, and the PR1 was able to read!

Bullnuke, I would recommend this book, or others like it.  Thank you for your service.  Screening waivers is a job with a tremendous amount of responsibility.  Some of the best Nukes I knew had a little rough housing in their background.  The worst Nukes I knew had a little rough housing in their background.  How do you make the call?  I'm sure there are plenty of fine lines you have to bisect. 

[HydroDave63]

A salesman is a salesman reguardless.

So you are saying it's perfectly okay for recruiters to make knowingly false statements to deceive, while in uniform? When were Art. 84 and 107 of the UCMJ rescinded?

Article 84—Effecting unlawful enlistment, appointment, or separation 

"Any person subject to this chapter who effects an enlistment or appointment in or a separation from the armed forces of any person who is known to him to be ineligible for that enlistment, appointment, or separation because it is prohibited by law, regulation, or order shall be punished as a court-martial may direct."

http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/mcm/bl84.htm

Article 107—False official statements

"Any person subject to this chapter who, with intent to deceive, signs any false record, return, regulation, order, or other official document, knowing it to be false, or makes any other false official statement knowing it to be false, shall be punished as a court-martial may direct."

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/punitivearticles/a/mcm107.htm

[orionhawk]

Did they offer the NFQT practice test to you at the recruiting station?

no such critter. (I JUST finished a tour of recruiting duty, btw.)

[orionhawk]

BullNuke,
If you "have Tremendous Influence over ANY recruiting process that involves nukes" then would you care to explain why any recruiter that is caught in a falsehood isn't keel-hauled on the spot?  And, is there a reporting for such problems?

Or is this question out-of-bounds?

if it's not out-of-bounds for someone else to reply, if there is any question on the enlistment process, it goes to RQAT (Recruiting Quality Assurance Team, iirc). there is no immediate action in most cases, but if a particular recruiter shows a pattern, or if it is a major issue (like a major legal issue, i.e. sexual assault), he is investigated. if the recruiter doesn't have documentation indicating what the recruit told him, he will likely be taken off-production, at the very least, and either returned to the fleet, busted, or discharged (or some combination thereof), as appropriate for the severity of the offense - as well as the level of "proof"; a recruiter is unlikely to be discharged if it is basically a matter of his word against the recruit's, EVERY SINGLE ---hole who lies TO us, tells RQAT he told us. (the one guy I had come home from Boot Camp told RQAT he told me he had asthma. he did not.)

[orionhawk]

for the sake of clarification: part of my point was that in many cases of apparent recruiter misconduct, it is in fact the recruit who is lying, or misunderstood what they were told (this is NOT directed at anyone in this thread!). this is a large part of why recruiters are not often hammered for lying to people.

the other issue is that most recruiters are not nukes. many seem to actively dislike nukes, or at least the fact that they are treated differently. they don't understand the differences in the recruiting process, they don't understand why (or how) they should actively prospect for nukes, and they don't particularly care. so they often give bum info to prospective nukes, simply because they don't know better (this doesn't really excuse it - if they don't know, it is their job as Petty Officers and Recruiters to learn, but it explains the bad info and the lack of consequences for it).

[Fermi2]

There are 7.34557765544 sides to every story. I know, I did research on it.

Mike

[SSBN640Blue]

Communication is the key to everything.

Hey Ashley027.  Yep your are correct to know what you are signing before you sign and get as much information as possible to make the best decision for you.

Alot of negatives on recruiters, that's a shame.  Have to remember, the Navy doesn't have a professional recruiters.  They all come from the fleet and are regular sailors.  They have some training before being assigned as a recruiter, but they are not experts in every rate the Navy has to offer.  My recruiter back on '69 was a Boatsian Mate from destroyers, what did he know about the nuke program or submarines. For many sailors, the only opportunity for shore duty is recruiting.  Most do it the best they can, but it isn't something they will make a career of.

So, with that in mind, you have several options:
Ask your recruiter if he can refer you to some another recruiter who is a Nuke.  If there isn't one local to you, maybe you can get a phone number.

Check with another recruiter in another town, but if that person isn't a nuke, your in the same boat you are now.

Personnally, I'd email BullNuke and chat with him.

If you have a BS then you should consider Officer program.  Pay is a lot better and lots more perks too.  But the enlisted guys have the fun of playing with the knobs and buttons on the panels and we only let the Officers watch us.

Best of luck

[juggalonic]

I am planning the join the Navy to go into the Nuclear Power Program. I am having my doubts with what the Navy recruiters are telling me, so I want to make everything clear before I sign anything.

First, I scored an 86 on the AFQT. The recruiters told me I had to take another exam. I believe it is the Napt if I'm not mistaken. But I find it highly suspicious that they would make me go to MEPS for the physical, and then enlist afterwards. AND THEN I get to take the Napt. Why can't I take the Napt before I enlist just to see if I qualify? Also, they mention it looks "bad" that I deny all of the jobs that are offered at MEPS if they don't have a nuke position available. 

Second, I have a Bachelor of Science Degree, so I heard of this loan repayment program that the Navy offers. Would I qualify for both the enlistment bonus and the loan repayment program?

1.  The NAPT is given at MEPS before your rating selection with one of the Classifiers (or whatever they are called).  If you do not screen for Nuke then you can just walk away.  You get your rating guarantee before you enlist and ship, which is a unique characteristic of the Navy versus the other branches, so if you are not offered a Nuke position you can just walk away from the MEPS Station then.
2.  With a BS you should definitely talk to the Officer Recruiter.  (Assuming you took Calc I and II, and two semesters of Calc-based Physics.)
3.  I have not heard of the loan repayment program, what program was it in reference to?

[orionhawk]

3.  I have not heard of the loan repayment program, what program was it in reference to?

LRP pays for up to $60k (or so, I brain-dumped most recruiter stuff when I left) of any federally-guaranteed loans, as long as they are not defaulted and all the paperwork gets done right (which is mostly on the Recruit, rather than the Recruiter), over the first three years of enlistment.

also, the Navy does indeed have professional recruiters, NC(CRF)'s, who are eminently capable of selling ice to Eskimos (although their techniques are less effective on the sort of person who makes a good potential nuke).

[IPREGEN]

Way back I was sent to Career Counseling and Information School in San Diego. I was the only Nuke in a class of mostly more seasoned (old) enlisted men who were recruiters. They were slow to warm up to a young nuke but they did tell me at that time a Nuke and Advanced Electronics people counted as 2 for their quota. Now if a potential recruit comes in and scores well enough to be accepted to the school, don't forget the recruiter does not set the entry minimums, a candidate that is 2 beans vs. 1 bean is a good thing for the recruiter. Is he/she deceiving someone? Well maybe the descriptions of what it is like will be embellished a little bit. Chances are that the recruiter is not a nuke and only knows what he was read/heard. But one thing my recruiter did was bring in a nuke that was getting out and had a start date with Con Edison with good pay. I did my six, got out went to and finished college, was a contractor, then a house tech, then a supervisor. And the company I work for now is the same one that the recruiters friend was heading to, Con Edison.