Rejoing Navy Nuke

[tfryman]

A year ago on my 18th birthday I signed up for the Navy, went to MEPS and qualified for nuke. I selected my ship date and as that date neared I saw other options in life I had open to me. I explained this to my recruiter and ended up dropping out of DEP. Fast forward a year later, and those options that I saw didn't happen. I had thought I found a way to go to college without incurring massive debt, this was the reason I gave when i separated from DEP, but things didn't happen. While working at my dead end job, I saw a recruiter and it made me think of the Navy. I had searched this forum preparing the leave last year, so I know someone on here can give me an answer. Is it possible to get back into the Navy? Could I go Nuke again? If it is possible to go back, I'll swallow my pride and give my old recruiter a call Monday.

[Estis]

"A DEP discharge has one, and only one negative effect: If you are discharged from the DEP, and later want to enlist in that SAME service, you will require a waiver. While waivers are usually granted, you may lose certain benefits, such as the ability to chose what job you want, or what date you will ship out to basic training. "

The above is quoted from...
-http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/joiningup/a/dep_2.htm

Now, note that this information will likely be out of date and may not apply anymore. I'm just a pre-dep NUB myself, so take the following with a grain of salt. In general though, more waivers = lower chances.

[Yaeger]

What do you have to lose by trying?

[sovbob]

So, there I was, staring down this rabid giraffe on the plains of north Africa.  I looked at him, and glared.  He looked back at me with those beady red bloodshot eyes.  He looked stoned.  If there's one thing I knew how to recognize, it's a stoned giraffe.  And man...this one was high as a kite.

I slowly pulled out my giraffe gun (I thanked my lucky stars that today I had foregone the elephant gun) and loaded a tranquilizer dart.  I carefully raised it up to my shoulder, taking careful aim.  Breathe in.  Breathe out.  Squeeze the trigger.

The shot pierced the night like the crack of a whip.  The dart whistled through the air and struck the giraffe on his neck.  He wailed and screamed, whirling around like some crazed fiendish spotted demon.  As soon as he laid eyes on me, he lowered his head and charged at me, wailing like a sick banshee.

I fought the urge to panic.  Stay calm.  Stay calm.  As the animal came closer I

OW!!!!  What the hell?!  Somebody left a book lying around and didn't bother to put it away.

Oh look, it's a copy of the COMNAVCRUITCOM 1130.8H (Navy Recruiting Manual),  Volume V.  Let's just take a look.  Hey...this is interesting.  It says here in Chapter 4, Section 2:

"040201. REENLISTMENT OF FORMER DEP PERSONNEL
a. Criteria. A person who has been administratively separated from DEP (from any service) can be reenlisted in DEP or directly accessed, provided the applicant currently meets all enlistment eligibility criteria and provided the reason for separation from DEP is not a factor that will preclude reentry into the service."
http://www.cnrc.navy.mil/publications/Directives/1130_8H/VOL%20V_DEP-with%20CH4.pdf

Anyway, back to the story...

[Estis]

To expand on what sovbob said...

Page 42/61 - COMNAVCRUITCOM 1130.8H (Navy Recruiting Manual),  Volume V

"040107 - Procedures for Administrative Separation of DEP Personnel

   b. Service Record Remarks
          (2). That the individual is not recommended for reenlistment because of the reason for discharge
          (4). That the individual shall not reenlist without NAVCRUITDIST CO approval"

This is quoted directly from the manual...I'm not a recruiter, so I do not know the correct way to interpret these statements(i.e. whether the CO approval is in written/verbal/waiver form etc.). I think the situation is that reenlisting is possible, but may be a long, rocky road to follow. Good luck.

[Harley Rider]

If it is possible to go back, I'll swallow my pride and give my old recruiter a call Monday.

It probably is but I hope in your case they show you the door. You have proven yourself to be an individual that cannot honor a contract, a promise nor a commitment which you said you would. Bottom line,,,you have no INTEGRITY. The U.S. Navy Nuclear Power program is built on that premise and has no time for individuals such as yourself. Please choose door number two,,,,"would you like fries with that?"

[sovbob]

Harley Rider,

I'm going to respectfully disagree with you.  It seems to me that the OP made a non-binding agreement to enter the naval service.  When something better came up, he was forced to make a decision.  He chose to leave the DEP (possibly to attend college?)

When that "better thing" fell through, he's now facing the uncomfortable situation of trying to retrace his steps and hope the bridge isn't too badly burned.

People make decisions based on the best information they have at that time.  I don't think it's fair to say that he has no integrity based on this incident.  After all, he didn't just ditch the navy.  He discussed it with his recruiter and came to the conclusion that he should drop DEP.

I agree, though.  If you make an agreement, you should make a good-faith effort to honor it.  I'm not advocating irresponsible behavior (either in DEP or active duty).  I'm merely pointing out that DEP is a non-binding agreement and he had a (presumably) legitimate reason for dropping DEP.

But that's just me.  Some say I'm too soft...

[Harley Rider]

Some say I'm too soft...

Pick Me !!!! Pick Me!!!!,
Just kidding my friend. You have provided some incredibly insightful advice to many a young nub on these pages and I commend you for it however these types of individuals are a Navy leaders nightmare. In case things have changed drastically I do not believe a DEP contract is non-binding however I do believe you can always get out of it. Bottom line is the boy (won't call him a man) gave his word and in my world your word is your character be it a handshake or your signature.

[sovbob]

Ok, a few things:

- You're right, I was mistaken.  The DEP contract is in fact, legally binding.  And yes, it is very easy to get out of it.  You just have to write a request for separation and it's almost always granted.

- I agree, as a leader, if you can't depend on people to follow through with what they say they will do, it's a nightmare.

- Should he have followed through?  Absolutely.  The bottom line is that he said he would, and then later changed his mind.  This kind of behavior doesn't exactly engender good relationships with the Navy, his recruiters, or the Nukeworker.com forum members.

- Yes, he is a kid.  He's still got a lot of growing up to do.

So why am I still arguing on his behalf?  Because I'm too soft idealistic, I suppose.

The Navy (and indeed the military in general) has a way of giving you an inner strength.  Actually it's probably more accurate to say that it has a way of forcing you to discover an inner strength that you may not have otherwise known.  You are tested, again and again.  The stress, strain, and hardship you experience physically, mentally, and emotionally will strip away all pretenses.

Everybody (and I mean everybody) will come to that moment where they hit a brick wall.  For me, it happened during my first year onboard a fast-attack submarine while in the shipyards.  I was at probably the lowest point in my naval career.  For as long as I could remember, I was exhausted, depressed, and beaten down.  I wanted to give up.  The thought had crossed my mind.  But I didn't give up.  I persevered.  Instead of throwing in the towel, I kept trudging through.  Eventually, I emerged on the other side.  And in that moment, I discovered something about myself that I never imagined possible. 

I discovered my true character.  I can thank the Navy for giving me that valuable intangible benefit.

Now, whenever I see these bright-eyed recruits with their NUB questions and their enthusiastic posts, I see myself.  They haven't hit their brick walls yet, but they will.  There's no way to know what's lurking inside each of us until we are faced with that adversity.

So tfryman made a mistake.  Sh*t happens.  In my opinion (and remember I'm a softie) there are enough extenuating circumstances surrounding this incident to warrant a second chance.  Put him on probation, if you like.  But don't throw away an otherwise promising young sailor because of this.

It's not too late to make this boy a man.

[Yaeger]

He's got nothing to lose by trying. Everyone makes mistakes, but the more determined can still show the dedication, determination, and persistence to pursue his chosen goals.

Good luck on getting back in, let us know how it turns out.

[HydroDave63]

Point #2
Now, whenever I see these bright-eyed recruits with their NUB questions and their enthusiastic posts, I see myself.  They haven't hit their brick walls yet, but they will.  There's no way to know what's lurking inside each of us until we are faced with that adversity.

Point#1
So tfryman made a mistake.  Sh*t happens.  In my opinion (and remember I'm a softie) there are enough extenuating circumstances surrounding this incident to warrant a second chance.  Put him on probation, if you like.  But don't throw away an otherwise promising young sailor because of this.

Sovbob,
 Although I'm seeing both your points and Harley Rider's , Point#1 above reminds me of my own low point experience at Proto. And were it not for some EM1s and my seadad seeing what you describe, I'd not be here (in present form anyhow) responding.

 Where I dissent with ya and agree with Harley Rider is Point #2. When we all went through our individual recruit-to-nub-to-accomplished Nuke process, I think the majority went through it with the underlying assumptions that signing for Navy Nuke was an irreversible action much like the Mayan Ball Game. How we nukes handled (or didn't) that brick wall was more or less a predictor or success in the fleet, which needs to be kept as close to Zero Defect as possible.

 Even without as hard a line as HR's, the recruiter would still have to look at the OP's story with a LOT of skepticism, in that:

1. You really thought you could go to college in 2010 and NOT rack up huge debt ?!?!?(bad math skills)

2. The program looked hard and you bailed (lack of fortitude)

3. I'm not getting the full truthful story of why you bailed (weed,women,WorldOfWarcrack)

 How hard is the recruiter gonna work if the OP still appears washout-ready?

[crusemm]

Amen

[LaFeet]

I had thought I found a way to go to college without incurring massive debt, this was the reason I gave when i separated from DEP, but things didn't happen. While working at my dead end job, I saw a recruiter and it made me think of the Navy.

Tfryman,  I need to know what makes you think that the Navy's Nuclear Power Program is going to be easier than your previous attempt at college (without debt) or your dead end job.  I know that Nuke School is a cake walk when compared to us old schoolers, but it is still about 6 years of MIT in 6 months.

[JsonD13]

I know that Nuke School is a cake walk when compared to us old schoolers, but it is still about 6 years of MIT in 6 months.

WOW is that an overexaggeration!  I was in a similar situation as the OP (however I didn't bail on a DEP contract, I just failed out of college), the Navy gave me the ethic to make it through the program.  It probably would do the same for the OP.

Jason

[LaFeet]

So  were you in the same boat?  Did you back out of a contract only to realize that it was something you should have stayed in.  Sounds like all these sports professionals wanting more money after signing an origanl contract.   I don't know, maybe I'm just out to lunch.  I do know that Nuke school was tougher in the 60- 80s than it is now.  I also know that I would not rehire someone that backed out of a contract.  I uphold and HONOR my obligations.

[JsonD13]

LaFeet,
   Not quite sure if your comment was directed to me, but my comment about overeggateration was that the school is 6 years of MIT in 6 months, not that its easier now than it was.

The second part of my comment was directed more towards the OP's ability to make it through given his wishiwashiness.  I was trying to iterate that boot camp can instill a hell of a work ethic in a slacker.

Jason

[walstib]

I have to agree with LaFeet.  I don't know how hard the program is now but back in the early - mid 70's it was designed at such a pace that the Navy told us of everyone who qualified to attempt the program, 9 out of 10 would be the standard attrition rate.  Albeit, a good portion of that was the 3 week math course prior to the school and prototype, but it was 12 to 14 hour days with your nose in the books once you started at nuke school.  If you have trouble with the pace of a 4 year college course, nuke school is probably not for you.

So sovbob, what happened with the giraffe?  Film at 11

[Marlin]

I have to agree with LaFeet.  I don't know how hard the program is now but back in the early - mid 70's it was designed at such a pace that the Navy told us of everyone who qualified to attempt the program, 9 out of 10 would be the standard attrition rate.  Albeit, a good portion of that was the 3 week math course prior to the school and prototype, but it was 12 to 14 hour days with your nose in the books once you started at nuke school.  If you have trouble with the pace of a 4 year college course, nuke school is probably not for you.

So sovbob, what happened with the giraffe?  Film at 11

   The attrition rate was 9 out of ten, the bottom third of my A school class was dropped even with passing grades, however there was room to place everyone who washed out unlike today where the cost of losing someone in the pipeline is much more costly in expense and manning. Vietnam kept the front end full of capable candidates in the 70's. Only myself and two others in my class  of 32 did not have at least two years of college prior to enlisting. Comparing it with college may be a little off though, much of the failure rate was due to the stress and pace of the course as opposed to the academic content.

Class 71-2

[walstib]

That was what I was meaning about passing the college course.  Their pace.  They cover approximately the same material in 4 years as the Navy does in 6 months.  Granted the Navy doesn't require 36 credit hrs in humanities (English 101 and such), but they accelerate the pace to the extent that those who aren't willing to dedicate themselves and put in the hard work get weeded out.

Class 7401