ET MM or EM?

[Trevar]

I recently signed my contract for nuke with the NAVY.  I'm 17 years old, just about to come out of high school, and see this as the best way to get my life started considering i messed around a little in school and can't get the scholarships i would like. I am personally kind of obsessed with having my future laid out before me as of lately, especially with this new path i have chosen for my life.

I've reviewed the forums enough to see all of the basic questions (although any and every bit of information i can receive would be appreciated) but one i cant really seem to find the answer to is which nuke spec would best serve me in the commercial world for a career post-navy. I'm fully aware that i have very little control over weather i get ET, MM or EM, but I'm just curious about which would look best entering the commercial world of nuclear power eventually when/if i end my NAVY career. I've read that ET gets highest reenlistment bonus and some other things, but I'm more interested in which would benefit me more in the outside world concerning my career.

I understand that my recruiters could probably help me a little with these questions, but their more focused on trying to convince me to make a career out of it which i don't really understand because weather i just do my 6 years or i make a career out of it doesn't effect them in the slightest.


I also have another small question, which i commonly asked on this site so i apologise for the repetition. I scored an 87 on my ASVAB with a 64 on NAPT. where will that put me in caparison with my fellow nukes during my schooling? I'm fully aware that it will put me nowhere near the top of my class, but how close is it to the bottom? i understand that the work that i put into my studies will be the deciding factor in how i do in school, not what knowledge i enlist with, but still I'm just curious if my current aptitude is going to make me the class "Anchor" right from the get go (remember i do acknowledge the fact that the amount of effort i put into my studies will be the deciding factor, i just want to know where I'll stand on day 1 in comparison)

P.S. Excuse any grammar/spelling errors, Ive never been an English buff.

[sovbob]

Trevar,

First of all, welcome to Nukeworker, glad to have you.  Thank you for your service.

Secondly, let me congratulate you (and toss a bit o' karma your way) for doing your homework and researching the forums before starting this thread.

...but I'm more interested in which would benefit me more in the outside world concerning my career.

The short answer is: It doesn't really matter.  A nuke is more valued in the civilian world because he/she has proven that they are 1) trainable and 2) a hard-worker.  These attributes will put you on the short list for any HR manager.

The longer answer is: Probably a mechanic (MM).  This is my own personal opinion and so take it for what it's worth.  But from what I observed, the mechanics who got out seemed to have the most variety of post-navy occupations.  There were guys on my boat who worked in nuclear power plants, aircraft maintenance shops, chemical plants, quality assurance, etc.  So if you want to cast a wide net (and thus, have the maximum number of opportunities available to you) I suggest you become a mechanic.

If you're looking for the highest paying jobs when you get out...well, you're probably going to need to qualify EWS (which is independent of your rating).  It is very difficult (although not impossible) for you to qualify EWS in six years.

I also have another small question, which i commonly asked on this site so i apologise for the repetition. I scored an 87 on my ASVAB with a 64 on NAPT. where will that put me in caparison with my fellow nukes during my schooling? I'm fully aware that it will put me nowhere near the top of my class, but how close is it to the bottom? i understand that the work that i put into my studies will be the deciding factor in how i do in school, not what knowledge i enlist with, but still I'm just curious if my current aptitude is going to make me the class "Anchor" right from the get go (remember i do acknowledge the fact that the amount of effort i put into my studies will be the deciding factor, i just want to know where I'll stand on day 1 in comparison)

You should be fine.  Don't sweat it, kid.

P.S. Excuse any grammar/spelling errors, Ive never been an English buff.

Fair enough.

[KUrunner]

I've read that ET gets highest reenlistment bonus.

Right now, the SRB cap is $75,000 for all Zone A nuke NECs.  The only difference is that ETs have a multiplier of 9.5 while MMs (for instance) have a multiplier of 9.0.  Assuming you reenlist as an E-4 at your two year point, ETs make $3500 more.  If you wait a month, both rates max out. 

Of course, SRBs are changing all the time.  In two years, it could be that EMs are capped at $90,000 and MMs and ETs are at $60,000.

[co60slr]

I am personally kind of obsessed with having my future laid out before me as of lately, especially with this new path i have chosen for my life.

I'm fully aware that i have very little control over weather i get ET, MM or EM, but I'm just curious about which would look best entering the commercial world of nuclear power eventually when/if i end my NAVY career. I've read that ET gets highest reenlistment bonus and some other things, but I'm more interested in which would benefit me more in the outside world concerning my career.

I also have another small question, which i commonly asked on this site so i apologise for the repetition. I scored an 87 on my ASVAB with a 64 on NAPT. where will that put me in caparison with my fellow nukes during my schooling? I'm fully aware that it will put me nowhere near the top of my class, but how close is it to the bottom? i understand that the work that i put into my studies will be the deciding factor in how i do in school, not what knowledge i enlist with, but still I'm just curious if my current aptitude is going to make me the class "Anchor" right from the get go (remember i do acknowledge the fact that the amount of effort i put into my studies will be the deciding factor, i just want to know where I'll stand on day 1 in comparison)

Don't expect to have much control starting with Boot Camp, through rate designation, prototype location, Sub/surf designation, through your first sea tour.   

MM/EM/ET in Commercial Nuclear is largely irrelevant.   Qualify EOOW/EWS and get a new designation:  Nuclear Supervisor.  No one cares about your RPPO, QAI, PMS Coordinator, [fill in the blank admin collateral duty].   Qualify EOOW if possible.   

Your ASVAB/Nuke scores are irrelevant now.  Your NPS/Prototype GPAs will "haunt" you (or reward you) for the duration of your career.  Put in the hours that YOU need to do to study and get good grades...and more importantly learn the plant that you're going to soon be operating.   You start out as 4.0...your study habits, not your ASVAB scores bring you down.

I couldn't find the latest enlisted advancement statistics, but some rates promote faster than others (i.e., more than SRB to consider).  However, see above...you don't have any control over your rating anyway.  The stats are buried in BUPERS somewhere.  Meanwhile, you can read more here:
http://www.persnet.navy.mil/NR/rdonlyres/E5D7B316-A39A-40D1-AD01-6F0DF0475F86/52026/090811NuclearEnlistedCareerBrief1.pdf

You guys waiting for Boot camp should spend some time getting to know (intimately) the BUPERS website.

[Trevar]

so i keep hearing talk about qualifying for these different things EOOW/EWS, im trying to research it but i cant really find exactly what these are? How hard is it to qualify for whatever they are in your first tour? Also would qualifying interfere with any classes i would take on the side to try and pick up a degree for potentialy becoming a comissioned officer(notreally something im sure about yet, but its a thought for if the opportunity comes my way)? If it would interfere and take up some time outside of my daily work to get such qualifications would it be more important to get these qualifications or a degree for me in the commercial world of nuclear power?

[Trevar]

I've seen straight answers for everything i've asked in other forums aside from the main question about which nuke rate would benifet me the best. i have seen plenty of answers for any other above questions...
Although im sure in one of the many links marssim just posted i have been proven wrong... shame on me i guess?

[HydroDave63]

Is that how you show respect for their time spent answering your many questions?

[Trevar]

possibly? Be more specific with your criticism and i could most likely give a viable answer

[co60slr]

Trevor you received some great advice from some very knowledgable individuals here.  However, I believe they are slightly off based.  If your sole goal is civilian nuclear power and to maximize your pay coming out of the navy, then be an ET.  That is the only rate which allows you to do 6 years, not qualify EWS, and still meet the minimum requirements for SRO on the commercial side.  I would also argue that having a strong electronics background will help you more if you do go the SRO route, as the most difficult things for guys to read are prints with all sorts of relays and logic.  That makes fluid systems look rather elementary in my opinion.  ET's also have the highest rate of advancement. 

I'm not off base at all.  And what YOU apparently don't know (or are strongly misrepresenting) is the fierce competition amoung the "6 and outers" now.  Furthermore, you're quoting minimum requirements, not the current hiring trends.   If the OP's goal is to go commercial without much work/effort in the Navy first, than the OP should fly resumes for AUO positions now.

Besides...YOU qualified EWS first...right?  Would Exelon have hired you without EWS on your resume? http://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/topic,24811.msg126669.html#msg126669

Send a resume out as an ET2 without EOOW/EWS for SRO Instant and I bet it goes in the trash. 

[co60slr]

so i keep hearing talk about qualifying for these different things EOOW/EWS, im trying to research it but i cant really find exactly what these are? How hard is it to qualify for whatever they are in your first tour? Also would qualifying interfere with any classes i would take on the side to try and pick up a degree for potentialy becoming a comissioned officer(notreally something im sure about yet, but its a thought for if the opportunity comes my way)? If it would interfere and take up some time outside of my daily work to get such qualifications would it be more important to get these qualifications or a degree for me in the commercial world of nuclear power?

Supervisory Quals.  (Why would the civilian sector hire you as a supervisor without Navy supervisory experience?)
Difficult, unless you're a "hot runner".  Nearly impossible until you make E-6.
Yes.  (Do the enlisted job your signed up for...and do it well, and then figure out the commissioning route).
Already answered in my first thread.

Separately, don't be a smart-ass to others (i.e., HydroDave63) in this Forum or you'll find the help that you need (mostly in getting you to ask the right questions, not getting answers to your current questions...which is where you'll benefit the most) will disappear.

Good Luck.

[Marlin]

I've seen straight answers for everything I've asked in other forums aside from the main question about which nuke rate would benefit me the best. I have seen plenty of answers for any other above questions...
Although I'm sure in one of the many links marssim just posted i have been proven wrong... shame on me I guess?

    Your question lacks depth (but that is to be expected), your stated goal is very broad. When you say you want nuclear power does that mean operations? If it is operations probably MM is the way to go as that rate tends qualify EWS much easier. If you want maintenance or power distribution perhaps electrician would be best. If you want calibration and instrumentation then Electronics would be best. But as stated before any of these with EWS would be your best bet. If you get MM one of the advanced NECs in welding or the elite of the Nuke Navy The ELT   would be advisable.

  Have you held out the possibility that you may hate nuclear power and decide to be a Chimney Sweep,   don't laugh one of my shipmates did just that.   Making it through the program should be your consuming focus at this time, when you get out more than nuclear power looks for ex Navy Nukes... more than half of my shipmates chose other fields and are doing well.

     Try not to piss off the curmudgeons on this forum as they also tend to be the most knowledgable. OK preaching over  


P.S. Check your post in quotes the spell check did wonders for it as did the shift button for caps.

[Trevar]

OK thanks for the help everyone =)
Apologies to anything that makes me look like i don't know what I'm talking about, because frankly i don't as of yet.
i look forward to what seems to be a challenging but rewarding career 

[co60slr]

I think that's a bit too late, IIRC the OP already signed his contract,...

I think so too.  However, there are threads here (I hate search/cut/paste) that discuss how one can simply NOT show up to boot camp with no recourse.

Meanwhile, as the OP seeks to lay out the next 6 years of his life, he'd better get hot and not leave the starting gate thinking only about the "minimum".   I'm sure in the threads you laid out as homework he'll find out how tough NPS is and how much free time he'll have left (i.e., none).   That is the price for being in a nuclear training pipeline, and it seems to be universal.

Finally, we have another poster that posts the "minimum requirement" without a reference, which is NOT the current hiring trend.   Unless A|P plans on collecting resumes from all the ET2, non-EOOW/EWS resumes and bringing them to his plant, I suggest we lay out career threads here that mirror past success and not a "sea-lawyering" of INPO/NRC "minimum requirements".   Ok, we have one at Exelon....I can find 10 that couldn't even get unlicensed jobs despite their "QAI, RPPO" quals.   (Ug...)

Co58

[Fermi2]

so i keep hearing talk about qualifying for these different things EOOW/EWS, im trying to research it but i cant really find exactly what these are? How hard is it to qualify for whatever they are in your first tour? Also would qualifying interfere with any classes i would take on the side to try and pick up a degree for potentialy becoming a comissioned officer(notreally something im sure about yet, but its a thought for if the opportunity comes my way)? If it would interfere and take up some time outside of my daily work to get such qualifications would it be more important to get these qualifications or a degree for me in the commercial world of nuclear power?

Stop making excuses for poor English and spelling. Make an attempt to do it right the first time. In the real world your boss won't accept weak excuses so start applying that rule of thumb now.

All your questions have been answered here many times over so stop being lazy.

Mike

[Marlin]

Stop making excuses for poor English and spelling. Make an attempt to do it right the first time. In the real world your boss won't accept weak excuses so start applying that rule of thumb now.

All your questions have been answered here many times over so stop being lazy.

Mike

   

[Creeker]

so i keep hearing talk about qualifying for these different things EOOW/EWS, im trying to research it but i cant really find exactly what these are? How hard is it to qualify for whatever they are in your first tour? Also would qualifying interfere with any classes i would take on the side to try and pick up a degree for potentialy becoming a comissioned officer(notreally something im sure about yet, but its a thought for if the opportunity comes my way)? If it would interfere and take up some time outside of my daily work to get such qualifications would it be more important to get these qualifications or a degree for me in the commercial world of nuclear power?

It can be a little hard when you don't know the context of the knowledge search..  You're doing fine, Trevar..  You're 17, about to head off on a great adventure, and probably most of us would happily trade places to be 17 and starting out again!

When you get to your first ship, they'll run you through an indoc period, where you get training on basic systems on board, then you'll start qualifying watches.  Let's assume you'll be an ET.  The first one will be something like Log recorder/Phone talker, which is where you'll take a bunch of logs, and handle the phone communications for the Watch Officer.  Every hour you'll take about 6 pages of logs, run get coffee or cokes, maybe do wake-ups in the early morning hours.. stuff like that.  It's a pretty easy watch, but one that will get you used to the goings on in EOS.  EOS is a small room in a reactor plant where the major control panels are located.  The reactor operator, throttlemen, maybe an electrical operator..  And an EOOW, who is generally an officer, and responsible overall for the operation of the plant, and communicating it's condition to Central, which coordinates the operation of all the plants with each other and the bridge of the ship.  After you've been phone talker a little, you'll be given a card for throttleman, where you control one of the ships main engines, and the speed of the shaft.  Control Equipment after that, where you're in charge of logs on a bank of electronic gear that keeps an eye on pressures, flows, levels, etc...  Finally, you'll qualify Reactor Operator and Shutdown Reactor Operator.. Which is Senior in Rate for an ET, meaning the top watch you'll qualify as an electronic technician.  Other rates have different top watches...  MMs have CMO (Chief machinery operator) or CRAO (Chief Reactor Auxiliaries Operator) and EMs have Load Dispatcher.  After you've been Senior in rate for awhile, if certain things line up, you may be allowed to qualify as PPWS, or Propulsion Plant Watch Supervisor.  On most ships, this is the same as EWS, or Engineering watch supervisor.  The PPWS walks around the whole propulsion plant, and keeps an eye on everyone, makes sure that folks are awake, being attentive to their jobs, not having a water fight in the lower level of the main machinery room.

What has to line up?
1)  If you're going to qualify and stand PPWS, you wont be available to stand reactor operator any more.  Can your division spare you?
2)  What's your reputation?  Are you mature and cool under pressure, as well as technically competent?  Can you be relied upon to make correct decisions?  Can you supervise guys 10 years older than you are?
3)  Are you a second class, or a first?  Some ships absolutely wont let a 2nd class qualify PPWS.  Some will.  Some skippers are hesitant to let 1st classes qualify.  Some might.. IF you agree to reenlist. Politics and career intentions can get involved.

Now, EOOWs, like I said, are typically officers.  But, if you have a senior enlisted, at least of CPO rank, then he can get a letter of approval from Naval Reactors (Our corporate masters of all nukes in the navy) and then you can qualify.  You won't be able to do this on your first tour at sea.  Maybe your second tour..  But, again, many things have to line up.  You better be considered an excellent watch stander, with a very good level of knowledge, and your chain of command has to recommend you.

The Degree?  Get one.  If you're on a surface ship, with the internet they have available, there's no reason you shouldn't pick up most of your TESC BS degree in Nuclear Engineering Technology before you get out.  Play your cards right, and at 24, you'll be degreed, have a wealth of experience under your belt, have a resume that'll knock their socks off, and be very eligible to enter the nuclear industry...  

Best of luck to you!

[MMM]

Creeker, it looks like you're getting subs and carriers mixed up.

On a carrier, the EOOW is ALWAYS an officer. The PPWO, who is the equivalent of a sub EOOW can be enlisted provided they qualified EOOW at prototype (NPTU) or have NR permission or have been selected for LDO/CWO. Only one of the two PPWOs can be enlisted at a time. I don't know the policy on subs. To qualify EOOW at NPTU you'll have to show a lot of leadership ability before they let you start, at least that's the policy where I am.

I don't think I've ever seen a 2nd class qualify PPWS, I've seen a couple start, but they made 1st shortly after that. I've also only seen the Dept. Head have issues with 1st classes qualifying. Usually it's the 1st class that doesn't want to qualify.

[Creeker]

You're right, Tripple-M...  I did prototype at S1W..  Sub-type, and called the PPWO an EOOW.  On surface, the EOOW is in Central and PPWO in EOS.  I concur with everythign you said, except the part of 1/2 being enlisted...  2?  Don't you mean 4?  As in 1, 4, 2, and 3 plant?  Or am I giving away where I spent most of my surface time.

Regardless, hope that answers your questions, Trev! 

[Jechtm]

As far as I know.. after qualifying EWS or EOOW on either sub or carrier, it is your job to know EVERYONES job. So i guess it all comes down to what you want on your patch, a propeller, a globe thingy or a Helium atom...


*yes thats a stretch*

[MMM]

True, but I don't know too many PPWS/EWS or EOOW/PPWO folks that actually "know" everybody's job. Typically the PPWO/EOOW knows their divisional stuff and pick up ET and ELT stuff, since that's the most political. The PPWS/EWS picks up all the mechanical and electrical stuff, since it's what they watch most of the time. But, yes, they should have some clue about everything.

[skin]

I also have another small question, which i commonly asked on this site so i apologise for the repetition. I scored an 87 on my ASVAB with a 64 on NAPT. where will that put me in caparison with my fellow nukes during my schooling?

Don't worry about that for a second.  The worst that a low score will do is you might have a Math IA the first week.  All that means is you're required to get some extra help outside of class.  And after that first week, IAs will be determined by test grades.  As long as you know you are capable of putting in the effort, you have nothing to stress about, they ease you into it.

[spekkio]

Enlisted can't stand EOOW on submarines. We have a PO2 qual'ed EWS, who stands the watch over an EWS qual'ed PO1 because we don't have enough RO's, so yes you can qualify EWS as a PO2. Whether you qualify EWS or not boils down to whether or not the EDMC will trust you in that kind of supervisory position...his recommendation is what really makes or breaks your chances at supervisory quals. Whether you actually stand the watch as a PO2 or junior PO1 depends on manning.

[MMM]

Enlisted can't stand EOOW on submarines. We have a PO2 qual'ed EWS, who stands the watch over an EWS qual'ed PO1 because we don't have enough RO's, so yes you can qualify EWS as a PO2. Whether you qualify EWS or not boils down to whether or not the EDMC will trust you in that kind of supervisory position...his recommendation is what really makes or breaks your chances at supervisory quals. Whether you actually stand the watch as a PO2 or junior PO1 depends on manning.

This applies to chiefs as well. Right before I left my last ship, two of my chiefs and I had to stand CMO instead of PPWS due to manning issues.

[Fluffy Bunny]

   

Seriously?  That is all you have to contribute??




Nukeworker rule # 1

http://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/topic,4700.0.html

1. Keep all replies to a message on topic; ANY off topic messages will be deleted. (This includes witticisms, and smart remarks.) Feel free to create witty topics in the correct area.


It seems to be a recurring issue with you.

[co60slr]

Seriously?  That is all you have to contribute??



Nukeworker rule # 1

http://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/topic,4700.0.html

1. Keep all replies to a message on topic; ANY off topic messages will be deleted. (This includes witticisms, and smart remarks.) Feel free to create witty topics in the correct area.

It seems to be a recurring issue with you.

Oh, someone's been spanked by a Fluffy Bunny.

Let's see...how many posts will it take for a Moderator to lock THIS thread now.   Hmm...they're only two left...get your posts in now.  My vote is 5 more after mine.

(On a serious note, you'd have to have been reading these Forums here for about 5 years to understand something that you're misquoting.  My vote is that you're a "deleted member returnee" with an ax to grind).

Go get 'em Fluffy!

Co58