Standards of medical fitness

[the_R]

Hello all,

 I'm going to make this short and sweet, skipping all the introductions and BS that go along with them.  I recently received (today) results from the Cardiology appointments I've had, and have been diagnosed with Mitral Regurgitation and a "borderline left atrial enlargement."   Of the many questions that have flooded my mind, only one REALLY matters, am I in danger of being medically separated from this career that I have trained three years for?  Any POSITIVE input you have will be greatly appreciated gentlemen.


 V/R
  the_R

Modified for definition:  Mitral Regurgitation is a heart disease, which a portion of blood that the heart pumps flows backwards through the heart

[Starkist]

Not much positive to say in regards to the navy. They have a LOT of red tape, and its going to be difficult, if not impossible, to stay in.

Did they give you a diagnosis on why you're experiencing these symptoms? These are not diseases, these are symptoms of something else.  My advice to you is to GET HEALTHY. Milk the navy for everything you can medical wise. You need to focusing on your health and safety not your job right now. It sucks (I know!), but if you can get yourself healthy and "normalized" again, you may have a career as a civilian nuclear operator.

[the_R]

The original situation which was a precursor to the appointments was during a watch one day as a log recorder I had blacked out vision, couldn't take phone comm's, cold sweats, and numbness in my extremities.  The PPWO ordered me a watch relief, and forced me out of EOS.

[Starkist]

The original situation which was a precursor to the appointments was during a watch one day as a log recorder I had blacked out vision, couldn't take phone comm's, cold sweats, and numbness in my extremities.  The PPWO ordered me a watch relief, and forced me out of EOS.

Thats great, you blacked out on watch because your heart isnt pumping blood. You still need to find out the reason for that. Mitral Regurgitation is NOT something trivial. You DESPERATELY need to get it sorted. It can KILL YOU if you have endocarditis or something of that nature and you dont get it treated.

edit : Just thought about this during a PM with someone else. Special physicals at boot camp specifically looks for this kind of stuff. This means it's most likely not a congenital defect.  You should also start talking to your JAG please.

[IPREGEN]

From time to time Navy Chow did the same thing to me, cold sweats and so on.

One thing I am positive of is no matter what this forum tells you, the Navy will make whatever determination they want.

[the_R]

Thats great, you blacked out on watch because your heart isnt pumping blood. You still need to find out the reason for that. Mitral Regurgitation is NOT something trivial. You DESPERATELY need to get it sorted. It can KILL YOU if you have endocarditis or something of that nature and you dont get it treated.

edit : Just thought about this during a PM with someone else. Special physicals at boot camp specifically looks for this kind of stuff. This means it's most likely not a congenital defect.  You should also start talking to your JAG please.

I understand and appreciate information that your passing along to me, honestly its very helpful.  One portion of your statement doesn't really seem to fit my situation though, I don't understand why I would need to contact my JAG?  Also, I'm sure there are specific sections/chapters in the instructions but I cant find them in reference to my current situation, do you have any input on the location of an article stating that I cant be a nuke?

[Starkist]

I understand and appreciate information that your passing along to me, honestly its very helpful.  One portion of your statement doesn't really seem to fit my situation though, I don't understand why I would need to contact my JAG?  Also, I'm sure there are specific sections/chapters in the instructions but I cant find them in reference to my current situation, do you have any input on the location of an article stating that I cant be a nuke?

For starters, heart diseases are generally NAVY disqualifying, not just NUKE dq'ing.


"The causes for rejection for appointment, enlistment, and induction are:

a. All valvular heart diseases, congenital or acquired, including those improved by surgery except mitral valve prolapse and bicuspid aortic valve. These latter two conditions are not reasons for rejection unless there is associated tachyarrhythmia, mitral regurgitation, aortic stenosis, insufficiency, or cardiomegaly. "


You need to see your JAG because they may just try to "get you out". Since you aquired it in the navy, you need to be taken care of medically before you are discharged. Bear in mind, you WILL get disqualified for service. Its not your fault, but its better you face it now.  You should be getting disability based on your full medical board. Probably should be getting separation check as well.


some good resources to get brushed up on.

http://www.med.navy.mil/directives/Documents/NAVMED%20P-117%20%28MANMED%29/MMDChapter18.pdf

http://www.public.navy.mil/bupers-npc/reference/milpersman/6000/Documents/6110-020.pdf

http://thesith003.tripod.com/MILPERSMAN_1160-040.htm

http://www.public.navy.mil/bupers-npc/reference/milpersman/1000/1300Assignment/Documents/1306-1210.pdf

Lots of reading. Dont kid yourself about staying in the navy, and certainly not as a nuke. Its not gonna happen. I don't want to be a harbinger of bad news, but Im not going to feed you bull-#$%^ either.

[Starkist]

From time to time Navy Chow did the same thing to me, cold sweats and so on.

One thing I am positive of is no matter what this forum tells you, the Navy will make whatever determination they want.

Navy chow doesnt cause enlarged atriums and flow reversal of your blood in your heart. Dont down-play this.

[the_R]

From time to time Navy Chow did the same thing to me, cold sweats and so on.

One thing I am positive of is no matter what this forum tells you, the Navy will make whatever determination they want.

Unfortunately for me, and I apologize if I took this out of context, the command have the same outlook on this situation.  Things outside of my control are happening (and continue to happen once every two-ish weeks) and they view it as a situation of "someone trying to sad out."  If I could stop these things happening I would, but I cant; they've been so bad that cruising down the interstate I've had to pull over due to the fact it feels like I'm drunk, how do you feel knowing I'm controlling a Reactor in a 1,000,000+ populated area where your family could possibly live or driving down the road with your family?  Their not going to let this slide...

[Starkist]

Unfortunately for me, and I apologize if I took this out of context, the command have the same outlook on this situation.  Things outside of my control are happening (and continue to happen once every two-ish weeks) and they view it as a situation of "someone trying to sad out."  If I could stop these things happening I would, but I cant; they've been so bad that cruising down the interstate I've had to pull over due to the fact it feels like I'm drunk, how do you feel knowing I'm controlling a Reactor in a 1,000,000+ populated area where your family could possibly live or driving down the road with your family?  Their not going to let this slide...

And this is why I said to speak with your jag.  You're on your own here, I've been in your shoes somewhat, and you need to get help ASAP. 

I know how the "Game" works. Your chiefs and divo's are useless to you now. I don't often say this... but you need to go above them, get help from your SMO (senior medical officer), RHO (rad health officer), and CO IMMEDIATELY.  Send a VERY professional email to your captain, CC it to your SMO, and ask to be put on limdu. You have no business on a ship right now, and I don't mean that in any way negative towards you. Its not safe for yourself or anyone else you work with.

[Gamecock]

how do you feel knowing I'm controlling a Reactor in a 1,000,000+ populated area where your family could possibly live or driving down the road with your family?

Don't be so melodramatic....
You're the Log Recorder......

[Starkist]

Don't be so melodramatic....
You're the Log Recorder......

He's working on his RO/SRO qual right now. If they keep him in long enough, he will be at the controls sooner then later. Thats not the point though, figured an officer of your stature would be a little more then displeased at this situation, much less mock it.



Apparently you think this is some "simple cold". 

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000176.htm

Common causes of chronic mitral regurgitation include:

•Coronary artery disease and heart attacks
•Endocarditis
•Heart tumors
•High blood pressure
•Marfan syndrome
•Swelling of the left lower heart chamber
•Untreated syphilis (rare)



Possible Complications
•Arrhythmias (abnormal heart rhythms), including atrial fibrillation and lethal arrhythmias
•Clots to other areas
•Endocarditis (infection of the heart valve)
•Heart failure
•Pulmonary emboli (blood clots in the lungs)
•Stroke



Not to mention, this is a medically disqualifying disease gamecock, I fail to see how any of my advice isnt prudent and practical. Stick to your office job, and dont mind the other sailors right?

[IPREGEN]

He's working on his RO/SRO qual right now. If they keep him in long enough, he will be at the controls sooner then later. Thats not the point though, figured an officer of your stature would be a little more then displeased at this situation, much less mock it.



Apparently you think this is some "simple cold". 

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000176.htm

Common causes of chronic mitral regurgitation include:

•Coronary artery disease and heart attacks
•Endocarditis
•Heart tumors
•High blood pressure
•Marfan syndrome
•Swelling of the left lower heart chamber
•Untreated syphilis (rare)



Possible Complications
•Arrhythmias (abnormal heart rhythms), including atrial fibrillation and lethal arrhythmias
•Clots to other areas
•Endocarditis (infection of the heart valve)
•Heart failure
•Pulmonary emboli (blood clots in the lungs)
•Stroke



Not to mention, this is a medically disqualifying disease gamecock, I fail to see how any of my advice isnt prudent and practical. Stick to your office job, and dont mind the other sailors right?

Starkist, Thanks for the smite. I had no idea that you had access to all the information about the person that started this topic and you are medically qualified to boot! Another Wiki doctor no doubt. Anyway. I stand by my original post that the Navy will make the determination for this sailor, not Nukeworker. It is absolutely ridiculous to even entertain the idea that this forum can provide information based on what this sailor has provided. But your passion to try to help is admirable.

[GLW]

Unfortunately for me, and I apologize if I took this out of context, the command have the same outlook on this situation.  Things outside of my control are happening (and continue to happen once every two-ish weeks) and they view it as a situation of "someone trying to sad out."  If I could stop these things happening I would, but I cant; they've been so bad that cruising down the interstate I've had to pull over due to the fact it feels like I'm drunk, how do you feel knowing I'm controlling a Reactor in a 1,000,000+ populated area where your family could possibly live or driving down the road with your family?  Their not going to let this slide...

I have benign MVP/MR brought on by a bout with rheumatic fever some years back (painful stuff).

At my age (52YO) it all gets caught up in getting older, no big deal, age with grace you know.

You seem to be a little young to have this affecting you to the degree you describe, without insight into your medical history (which is no more our business than you care to make public) we can only opine from our own perspectives.

Mine ranges from you could have brought this on yourself with diet pills before you entered boot camp to you had an undiagnosed strep infection which morphed into a mild RF that you passed off as not feeling well and has now manifested itself as MVP/MR or even that the Navy just did not catch it during your physical evaluations when you enlisted which would mean the Navy medical types got it wrong,....perish the thought (hey, they told me I was colorblind and yet here I am today, all Navy nuked out yadda, yadda, yadda)!!!!!

As we are not medical doctors, we have no ability to assess service related or bad luck or bad genes or whatever,...

As to the statement about feeling like you're drunk on the interstate you do have a fundamental responsibility to everybody in the larger society to have a competent medical practitioner determine if you should still have an operators license.

As you have come here publicly and stated you may not be fit to drive or operate a reactor keep in mind the reactor operation issue is the Navy's purview, the safe operation of a motor vehicle is your responsibility.

And yes, I do live next door to an NPTU and you (collectively) are driving the same roads as my family.

I'll have to trust the Navy to keep my family safe from improper reactor operation, for three decades plus they have performed well.

Safe motor vehicle operation is your and the Department of Motor Vehicle's responsibility, for three decades plus they have been extricating sailors tangled up with civilians in dozens of severe and fatal motor vehicle accidents on the local roads.

Are you safe? Or do you want to hold on to the freedom of that drivers license regardless of the potential damage you have admitted here in this forum that you may wreak on other persons?

The Navy has little to do with your drivers license, that's all on you pal, show us your character,.....

OBTW, thank you for your service and here's hoping it's all a just a temporary holistic imbalance with a benign MVP/MR diagnosis,...

...Any POSITIVE input you have will be greatly appreciated gentlemen....

You're young, you're smart, you will have the opportunity to have most if not all of your higher education subsidized by a grateful public, you may be able to continue your enlistment, if you can make it through the enlisted NNPP you can probably make it through most higher education curriculum's, as long as you keep your attitude focused towards the positives you will separate with an honorable discharge which is a good thing, heart condition or no there is still a lot of opportunity for you in what is arguably one of the best countries to live in at anytime anywhere, and I could go on but you should be getting the picture,...

And you can't fix the Navy 'cause it ain't broke, it's just the Navy, it's not what you want it to be, it's what it is, so roll with it and do the best you can with it,....

Your Honorable Discharge at the end of the day tells everybody everything they need to know,...

Don't let attitude attacks screw up that little piece of paper,.....

[the_R]

I appreciate all of your inputs, even yours Gamecock.  My new question is do any of you have any experience with Propranolol?

[Starkist]

Starkist, Thanks for the smite. I had no idea that you had access to all the information about the person that started this topic and you are medically qualified to boot! Another Wiki doctor no doubt. Anyway. I stand by my original post that the Navy will make the determination for this sailor, not Nukeworker. It is absolutely ridiculous to even entertain the idea that this forum can provide information based on what this sailor has provided. But your passion to try to help is admirable.

So you know, EVERY male on my mother's side has died before the age of 59 because of heart related illnesses. My mother is also a doctor and has been a base of some of this conversation. Yes, I feel comfortable saying I probably know more then you about this subject. I have also had to jump through crazy hoops in the medical side of the navy, so I am more experienced then you in that regards as well.  Slam away, you're dead wrong here. If you bothered reading my statements, instead of baselessly judging me, you would see my concern is him getting the care he requires, not me "diagnosing" him.  I've also had some PM sessions with this guy about things going on, and its certainly more then you care to know.  

"The navy will do what they want"... no $#!T sherlock....  

That aside, YES I am passionate about this, because I've had to jump through the medical hoops in the navy MORE THEN ONCE. It's a struggle, both personally and professionally. It's a load of crap, and isn't helped by old "know-it-alls" who haven't had to experience these like myself and others like the_R.





In summary,

http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/corres/pdf/613003p.pdf

2. APPLICABILITY. This Instruction applies to:
a. OSD, the Military Departments

c. Ensure that individuals under consideration for appointment, enlistment, or induction into the Military Services are:....

(2) Free of medical conditions or physical defects that may require excessive time lost from duty for necessary treatment or hospitalization, or probably will result in separation from the Service for medical unfitness.

And page 18, the heart section.


Paper work and documentation. How's that for "wiki doctor"?

[Gamecock]

I appreciate all of your inputs, even yours Gamecock.  My new question is do any of you have any experience with Propranolol?

While I was in grad school, I took Propranolol for high blood pressure.  It is a beta blocker....

As an added benefit, it also kept me from getting headaches.

I took it for about 2 years.

[Gamecock]

My mother is also a doctor

Really?!?

[the_R]

While I was in grad school, I took Propranolol for high blood pressure.  It is a beta blocker....

As an added benefit, it also kept me from getting headaches.

I took it for about 2 years.

So what your telling me is that they gave me a high blood pressure medication for a heart condition?  Super...

[Starkist]

Really?!?

Nurse practitioner (Ph.D), specializes in geriatric medicine typically with oncology.  While I, specifically, may not know what I'm talking about, I can assure you very well, she does.

[the_R]

While I was in grad school, I took Propranolol for high blood pressure.  It is a beta blocker....

As an added benefit, it also kept me from getting headaches.

I took it for about 2 years.

Which means what in the end game?  From what I've been able to find on the internet Propranolol has many intended uses, migraine control, anxiety, high blood pressure, heart palpitation's, etc...  Is it something I need to focus on that my chain of command is going to deem a neurological medication (mind altering)?

[Starkist]

Which means what in the end game?  From what I've been able to find on the internet Propranolol has many intended uses, migraine control, anxiety, high blood pressure, heart palpitation's, etc...  Is it something I need to focus on that my chain of command is going to deem a neurological medication (mind altering)?

go ask your RHO....?

[IPREGEN]

Wow Starkist. Next you'll tell me you stayed at a Holiday Inn Express.

[Starkist]

Wow Starkist. Next you'll tell me you stayed at a Holiday Inn Express.

Lets settle on this. He needs assistance, I've dealt with similar situations as to this person, and am offering my perspective based on my quasi-recent experiences. If you have further concerns about my statements, or their credibility, please PM and ask me instead of this public debacle.

[Type_Z]

What has been happening with your situation?