Prototype Instructor

[watkinstam]

I am currently getting my Bachelor's Degree and am pretty far in the process of applying as a Power School Instructor with NUPOC. I have finished MEPS, academic screening and yesterday I did my technical phone interview. It was long and hard, but I passed. However, the interviewer informed me of a couple of changes happening in the NUPOC program.

He told me that it is now a five year commitment instead of four.

He also told me that I can now go directly to be a Prototype Instructor, instead of a Power School Instructor. I'll be going to DC mid-August for my interviews and I have to have it decided by then, but this is the first I've heard of it.

Has anyone else heard about these changes? What are your thoughts between being a Power School Instructor and a Prototype Instructor?

Just trying to get as much information as I can before I have to decide in a few weeks.

[Gamecock]

Prototype instructor is a new initiative by NR.  If you want to get experience as a nuclear operator then this is the route to go.  You'll qualify Engineering Officer of the Watch, and then you'll do the same job as the BMPC civilians.  You'll work shift work. 

If you just want to teach without shift work, then regular nuke school instructor is the way to go.

Cheers, GC

[watkinstam]

What does working shifts exactly entail?

I'm excited about this opportunity, as I do want more hands on experience with nuclear engineering. However, it's hard to make such a large decision with so little information.

Any advice about where I could go to find out more about Prototype?

[spekkio]

What does working shifts exactly entail?

I'm excited about this opportunity, as I do want more hands on experience with nuclear engineering. However, it's hard to make such a large decision with so little information.

Any advice about where I could go to find out more about Prototype?

You essentially have three 7-day shifts with 2 days off, followed by a four day shift with four days off. Only problem is that when you are on mids (12am-8am), they count the work day as the day before, so you have to be back at work at 8 am exactly 48 hours later. On the military end there are virtually no instructors that *only* work the 8 hour shift, a 10ish hour day is fairly standard.

Also, there's a big difference between nuclear engineering (which you won't do) and nuclear power plant operations (which you will do).

[Higgs]

What does working shifts exactly entail?

I'm excited about this opportunity, as I do want more hands on experience with nuclear engineering. However, it's hard to make such a large decision with so little information.

Any advice about where I could go to find out more about Prototype?

Although I was enlisted, I qualified engineering officer of the watch and was an officer student instructor while I was at prototype.

It was one of the best times I ever had in the Navy, and even my life. It was extremely rewarding and fun, and I made connections for life with many of my students. If the Navy would have let me do that for the rest of my career, I'd still be there.

You'll get to do something different everyday, vs reading off of a scripted lesson plan in a sterile environment. I was never a power school instructor, but while I'm sure it has its merits, there's just something special about taking a kid that knows nothing about running a power plant and turning them into a leader of a crew.

But that's just my experience. YMMV.

Justin

[Tylor]

I'm just starting off as a prototype instructor up in Ballston Spa, NY. I'd agree with Gamecock here, if you want to teach, go to power school, you'll teach students, have a few watches as OOD, but the work hours are great and Charleston is a pretty nice area. Also if you're interested in staying in the Navy, most of my DIO instructors were successful in applying to different officer fields. (I was an enlisted student there, so I don't know much about the officer side.)
To be a prototype instructor, I'm assuming they'll send you through the pipeline. (power school in charleston, then off to prototype at whichever prototype you're going to.) If they didn't, I'd imagine it'd be very difficult to qualify EOOW. The rotating shiftwork is pretty crappy, but I'd say the environment is much better. You'll be much closer with your students, as the majority of your teaching will be one-on-one, versus you teaching a classroom of students. You do get pretty close with the people on your shift, and especially if you're looking to stay in the navy, or to work in the nuclear field, I'd recommend prototype over power school.

[Gamecock]

You do get pretty close with the people on your shift, and especially if you're looking to stay in the navy, or to work in the nuclear field, I'd recommend prototype over power school.

DIO officially stands for Direct Input Officer.  The D should stand for Disposable.  DIOs serve five years with no guarantee of anything else.  There are a handful of opportunities to lateral transfer, but not many. 

Taking the prortype option would likely make you viable for a job as a civilian doing the same thing with BMPC if you desire to stay, but that remains to be seen. 

[spekkio]

DIO officially stands for Direct Input Officer.  The D should stand for Disposable.  DIOs serve five years with no guarantee of anything else.  There are a handful of opportunities to lateral transfer, but not many.  

Taking the prortype option would likely make you viable for a job as a civilian doing the same thing with BMPC if you desire to stay, but that remains to be seen.  

There's no guarantee either way. Most DIOs end up moving onto greener pastures because they want to. College was half paid for by the Navy, grad school will be subsidized by the GI bill...no real reason to stay. The ones who have wanted to stay Navy had no problem lateral transferring into an unrestricted line job - sub officer, SWO, pilot, NFO. Most people who want one of those jobs in the first place, though, would have opted for them instead of DIO at the onset. If they want to go for something more obscure like SEAL, intel, HR, or PAO, that's another story.

The only hitch with going DIO -> URL is that an officer's career timing is on rails. Your time spent as a power school instructor is likely going to count as at least part of your post-JO shore duty so you can serve as a DH to catch up to your year group for O-4 promotion boards. But this isn't something that's insurmountable, nor something I'd even recommend OP base his decision upon. He'll cross that bridge if and when he gets there.

Also, every single civilian I encountered serving in an instructor/EOOW capacity at MARF was miserable and hated their jobs. They also said their paycheck was similar to my O-1 pay w/ BAH factored in.

[GLW]

....Also, every single civilian I encountered serving in an instructor/EOOW capacity at MARF was miserable and hated their jobs. They also said their paycheck was similar to my O-1 pay w/ BAH factored in.

yeah, I would guess that 80% of that misery is because they live(d) in New York,...

I know their pain,...

Saratoga Flat Track season started this week!!!!!

Time to take the long way 'round to B'Spa,...

[Higgs]

Also, every single civilian I encountered serving in an instructor/EOOW capacity at MARF was miserable and hated their jobs. They also said their paycheck was similar to my O-1 pay w/ BAH factored in.

That's probably why I work with many of them in the commercial world.

Justin

[Gamecock]

That's probably why I work with many of them in the commercial world.

Justin

Honestly, the only thing I see as good for the Prototype DIO is you can get your operational expereince without having to go to sea.  Then, after your 5 years is up, you can go work for Higgs in commercial ops.

[spekkio]

yeah, I would guess that 80% of that misery is because they live(d) in New York,...

I know their pain,...

Saratoga Flat Track season started this week!!!!!

Time to take the long way 'round to B'Spa,...

I personally loved the Saratoga area. Plus there is a lot of nature type stuff to do not too far away...

Only problem is that the shift work kills you. You're so busy trying to adjust your sleep schedule that you only get to really enjoy things once every month or so.

[GLW]

I personally loved the Saratoga area. Plus there is a lot of nature type stuff to do not too far away...

the "area" is amongst the top two I have resided in (FLA, HA, OH, CT, NY),...

expensive to live though, the price of admission is steep, scant few can comfortably afford to live in Disneyworld year round,...

residing in a state (plus county & local) which is consistently in the top three for financial burden spanning all or part of the last four decades (early 80's to present),...

plus, you can freeze to death in wintertime, you cannot just let things slide until next year (FLA, HA, shaka, noho ʻoluʻolu),...

begins to wear on ya,...

Only problem is that the shift work kills you. You're so busy trying to adjust your sleep schedule that you only get to really enjoy things once every month or so.

I enjoy rotating shift work,...

The underway watch rotation on the boat was easy too,...

Being interminably stuck on any midshift, that's a whole different story,...

Dam Chiefs used to liked to pull that one on E-6s qualified EWS, hurrah! four section watchbill!, except your section sucks,...

I'll just stand ERS or Underway ELT thank you,...hell, since the coins the same just stick me in AMR2LL and leave me alone, I ain't proud,...

[BrianScott87]

This is a good discussion of some basics of the Prototype instructor position. 

A quick update for everyone: 


We are officially bringing NPTU (Nuclear Power Training Unit - aka Prototype) Instructors to interviews in DC now, and have filled all FY16 positions (though we can still bring recent graduates and count them towards next year -- so positions remain available).  All DIO NPTU Instructors (at least for the time being) will be working at the Charleston Prototypes.  In the future they may also go to MARF & S8G in New York, but no certainty or time frame.  The NPTU role is similar in some ways to that of a Shift Engineer, but is more EOOW-focused.  NPTU instructors will also have a division at the Prototype, much as would be the case on a Submarine/Carrier.  It is obviously too early to point to actual examples of this occurring, but a possibility of transitioning to civilian positions at Prototype (assuming your performance they've observed merits this) is expected to complement the lateral transfer options (as well as transitioning out altogether).  The expectation is that time as an NPTU DIO will be able to be counted towards Engineering experience for the PE license, though again this is in the early stages as the first DIO NPTU Instructors are just starting the pipeline.  On that note, all DIO NPTU Instructors will start at Power School as a student, just like Submarine and Surface Officers.  They then complete Prototype as a student and remain behind afterwards for additional training. 

In recent years this position has effectively been filled (in part) by Staff-Pick-Up Ensigns.  I don't have numbers on how many there are, but top-performing SUB/SWON officer students have been offered positions to stay at NPTU for a period after their graduation to teach and be training EOOWs, but they will still go out to the fleet after this period is done.  Whether this program will continue or will be completely supplanted by the DIO instructors, I honestly don't know. 

[Gamecock]

This is the dumbest program ever invented.  No one should do this.  If you want to be a training engineer at NPTU, then get hired as a civilian by BMPC. 
Why?
1.  As a civilian, you can quit if you don't like it.
2.  The navy will not guarantee you a job after your initial commitment.
3.  BMPC will pay you more, and you will have a viable career path.  Pay includes salary plus EOOW yearly bonuses, shift differential pay, and more.
4.  Your DIO counterparts who teach at the schoolhouse make the same money as you, work fewer hours, have less stress, and don't work rotating shift work.

Bottom line... If you want to be an instructor, teach at the schoolhouse.  If you want to be a crew training engineer, get hired by BMPC. 

Cheers,

GC

[spekkio]

I didn't want to come out and say it for those considering the program, but gamecock is spot on.

[BrianScott87]

I don't know the pay breakdown for BMPC (I will try to get this for my own situational awareness), but a few thoughts:

Firstly -- working for BMPC is absolutely an option to consider for someone looking to work at Prototype (I've also added a link to their website on the new NUPOC Blog/website).  I'll take on faith that the pay is a bit higher as a BMPC civilian since GC has a lot of knowledge on the NNPP.  Having said that there are a few other items worth considering.  First, the gross pay number you get at BMPC will all be taxed while a good chunk of your pay going the NUPOC route will be tax-exempt (Housing and Subsistence allowances nearly $2k/month untaxed) so that would mitigate whatever the difference was at least somewhat.  You will also earn GI Bill + Yellow Ribbon benefits which can be hugely significant if you decide to go back to school for an MBA/JD/MEM etc.  Of course you also will receive other VA-related benefits like VA Loans, though from my perspective the GI Bill is the biggest one.  If you're sure that you want to make a career of Nuclear Engineering then maybe this doesn't really mean much to you, but having the ability to transition via a free degree helps keep more doors open.    Additionally, your 5 years there would count towards retirement so you would only need 15 more years of service before you could obtain a pension (and up to another 30 months of that time could be knocked off for your time in NUPOC as a student.  You will also get some of the "Fleet" officer aspects at NPTU that BMPC instructors and Power School instructors do not -- most notably the fact that you will be a division officer who is responsible for either the Mechanics, Electricians, ELTs or ETs.  This is an oversimplification, but it is in many ways a convergence of the NPS Instructor position and a Submarine/SWO officer position.   

Some of the potential drawbacks that should be on your radar (alluded to above): 
- You will work longer hours that Power School Instructors (though typically 8.5-10 hour days -- not extreme, just not as lax in that respect as NPS)
- You will be in shift work for a good chunk of the time you're there.  The day is split into 3 eight hour shifts and you will alternate between them on a ~weekly basis.  This means that at times your schedule may not sync well with that of your wife/family/friends etc.  I actually liked this aspect when I was a student at Prototype, but it's definitely something worth noting. 
- GC is correct - You cannot stay an NPTU instructor in the Navy after the 5 years.  Having said that, the same is true at Power School and I have never heard of an instructor who tried to laterally transfer to another community being unable to do so.  Additionally the expectation is that a transition to BMPC will be available should you want to stay after 5 years (assuming that you performed well and they would want to hire you -- that part is on you!), but because the first batch of NPTU Instructors are just now getting ready to go to power school I can't point to any examples of this -- so a grain of salt is in order.

[spekkio]

Firstly -- working for BMPC is absolutely an option to consider for someone looking to work at Prototype (I've also added a link to their website on the new NUPOC Blog/website).  I'll take on faith that the pay is a bit higher as a BMPC civilian since GC has a lot of knowledge on the NNPP.  Having said that there are a few other items worth considering.  First, the gross pay number you get at BMPC will all be taxed while a good chunk of your pay going the NUPOC route will be tax-exempt (Housing and Subsistence allowances nearly $2k/month untaxed) so that would mitigate whatever the difference was at least somewhat.  You will also earn GI Bill + Yellow Ribbon benefits which can be hugely significant if you decide to go back to school for an MBA/JD/MEM etc.  Of course you also will receive other VA-related benefits like VA Loans, though from my perspective the GI Bill is the biggest one.  If you're sure that you want to make a career of Nuclear Engineering then maybe this doesn't really mean much to you, but having the ability to transition via a free degree helps keep more doors open.    Additionally, your 5 years there would count towards retirement so you would only need 15 more years of service before you could obtain a pension (and up to another 30 months of that time could be knocked off for your time in NUPOC as a student.  You will also get some of the "Fleet" officer aspects at NPTU that BMPC instructors and Power School instructors do not -- most notably the fact that you will be a division officer who is responsible for either the Mechanics, Electricians, ELTs or ETs.  This is an oversimplification, but it is in many ways a convergence of the NPS Instructor position and a Submarine/SWO officer position.   

1) As you somewhat conceded, the GI bill is not a big selling point to many college graduates.
2) Five years of AD toward retirement is true in both NNPTC instructor and NPTU instructor. I'm not sure why you think there's an advantage to NPTU here. Regardless, in both cases the person would have to lateral transfer in order to stay Navy at the conclusion of the instructor tour, and that incurs its own set of career hurdles. If the applicant is interested in a 20 year career path, neither NNPTC instructor nor NPTU instructor are the right fit.
3) No one I've spoken to who was an instructor at NPTU ever worked 8.5 hour days, except during T-week. Expect ten minimum, often more.

[BrianScott87]

1.  True -- depends on what your goals are.  It's certainly a good option to have available and the value can be as much as $200k depending on the school you choose and the size of their Yellow Ribbon contribution.  I'm using it at Georgetown now for a Masters and will have enough left over for an MBA after I get out. 
2.  Agreed that NNPTC and NPTU both count the same towards retirement - the disparity is with BMPC where obviously you don't get that credit.  Also no argument that you would need to lateral transfer to get to 20, but that is a well-trodden path and unless your fitness reports are despicable the likelihood of being successful is nearly 100%. 
3.  Depends on a few things, like if an ORSE is coming up, etc.  For perspective, we're bringing in about 14/year (so after the pipeline time is removed there will be ~40-50 DIO NPTU Instructors split between two prototypes) via NUPOC plus the BMPC staff and continued detailing of post-JO Shift Engs.  The point is to alleviate workload and keep a good work-life balance for all parties, and thereby to help JO retention and let Chiefs at prototype focus more on a traditional "chief" role and less on the instructor aspect in Maneuvering.  From the Staff-Pick-Up ensigns I've talked to the typical schedule does not involve much work beyond the required hours of the shift.

Having said that, I've not done this job personally and only have my experience as a student and conversations I've had with a few folks currently filling the role currently to go off of.   

[BrianScott87]

Another note:

For anyone who is interested in either instructor position, we continue to run trips to Charleston which include tours of NNPTC and partial (due to classification issues) tours of the NPTUs.  Among other things these visits include time to interact with current instructors at both facilities and hear some of the pros/cons as they see them now having already been there.

[HeavyD]

You will also get some of the "Fleet" officer aspects at NPTU that BMPC instructors and Power School instructors do not -- most notably the fact that you will be a division officer who is responsible for either the Mechanics, Electricians, ELTs or ETs.  This is an oversimplification, but it is in many ways a convergence of the NPS Instructor position and a Submarine/SWO officer position.

Maybe things are different now (my NPTU tour was 1996-2000) and different in Charleston, but there was almost ZERO DIVO work done by the our Shift Engineer.  Now, the only staff URLs we had were our Shift Eng and Assistant Shift Eng; all of the Crew Training Engineers were Bettis.  The LPO of each group was responsible for things on shift, with a Day staff position that managed all of the traditional division level items, i.e. PMS, maintenance planning, etc.

Just my 2 cents.

[Gamecock]

The prototype DIO positions will also phase out enlisted T-EOOWs.  So, once this gets up and going, no longer will hard-charging enlisted sailors get the opportunity to qualify EOOW at NPTU. 

That is a loss in my book.

Cheers,

GC

[GLW]

The prototype DIO positions will also phase out enlisted T-EOOWs.  So, once this gets up and going, no longer will hard-charging enlisted sailors get the opportunity to qualify EOOW at NPTU. 

That is a loss in my book.

Cheers,

GC

the vestiges of Rickover will be inexorably erased from the NNPP by Big Navy,....inexorably,...

[BrianScott87]

GC - I agree with you regarding the T-EOOWs.  I hope (no actual data) that they will continue to be able to go that path in NY and that an option will remain to qualify EOOW even if they're not standing it as a regular watch.  Time will tell. 

GLW - NR still has the ability to sidestep quite a bit of "big Navy" from what I've been able to see - and much for the better.  I have a hard time imagining that with Richardson at the helm the Navy will encroach too much, but this is just my general sense and nothing more. 

Best,
Brian

[spekkio]

NR is very much a 'big Navy' organization. Believe it.