NukeWorker Forum

Facility & Company Information => Region IV (Western) => San Onofre (SONGS) => Topic started by: Rennhack on Jul 22, 2001, 07:33

Title: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Rennhack on Jul 22, 2001, 07:33
San Onofre! San Diego is a sometimes a tough animal to deal with. Expensive at times. The Internet has eased the process yet it's sometimes nice to have a general idea of the area.

Like many locations nationwide, there are many private homeowners who may rent a portion of there abode. This may suit some, at the same time, one may desire greater privacy.

Rental property in Oceanside, Vista and Carlsbad (North San Diego County) are generally priced lower than the San Clemente and Laguna Nigel area locations North of the San Onofre Generating Station.

There are nice apartment units throughout the area and there are some nice units at the Oceanside Harbor, Dana Point and Carsbad Ocean Front areas.

Plan well in advance to secure a reasonable rate. There are some decent trailer parks in Oceanside on the main drag of Hill Street.
Try Meadowlark Apartments West, 949-492-1831. They rent one bedroom apartments by the month that are furnished.
Title: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Rennhack on Nov 30, 2002, 08:05
Don't forget to vote.  Keep your comments civil.
Title: San Onofre
Post by: Rennhack on Nov 30, 2002, 08:40
Talk About: San Onofre
Title: Re: Rate San Onofre
Post by: mahalo50 on Dec 22, 2002, 01:31
Quote
Don't forget to vote.  Keep your comments civil.

Haven't been there in years but loved it,  
Title: Re: Talk About: San Onofre
Post by: Lamont on Apr 02, 2003, 01:52
Got a job there when I was 18 out of High School. Worked there 7 years. Got married and divorced and now live in Texas. Working for the V.P.'s old company.

Loved it there, learned alot there. Everyone I worked with there was GREAT...Contract and House. Ex-wife may still work there. hmmm

Missed the beach, mountains and weather. It is hard to surf in Texas.

Title: Re: Talk About: San Onofre
Post by: ex-turbine_cowboy on Nov 21, 2003, 04:02
With all the wonderful positions being posted by SCE, Has anybody ever gotten a reply or Thank You for you interest note from the HR Dept. out there?  Just my pet Peeve.
Title: Re: Talk About: San Onofre
Post by: HydroDave63 on Nov 21, 2003, 07:27
Quote
With all the wonderful positions being posted by SCE, Has anybody ever gotten a reply or Thank You for you interest note from the HR Dept. out there?  Just my pet Peeve.


that is a sore subject...basically, HR only notices you if your resume made it through the all-knowing Resumix software screening, even if the hiring manager has read your resume and wants to interview you. Also, the bias is towards degree-and light experience vs. lots of experience-no degree.

One should also consider that the cost of living has gone up considerably in southern Calif over the past decade, and the commutes havent gotten any shorter. Still, the plant is in great shape, and good people to work with. Keep trying!  :D
Title: Re: Talk About: San Onofre
Post by: vikingfan on Nov 22, 2003, 07:59
Worked out ar SONGS from about 1990- 1992. met a lot of great people out there, Moke,mark star,to name a few. worked as a decon tech working on the spent fuel rerack job. enjoyed the evenings bay the ocean. all in all the plant was agreat place to start and a great learning experience.

         James Jablonski " JJ "
Title: Re: San Onofre
Post by: felchie on Mar 12, 2004, 06:09
Just finished working an outage there and I must say it is really going downhill.  The coord (*****)
is worthless! Only got paid 11.5 hours for 12
(unpaid lunch) but if you figure the 15 minute walk in each day then traffic you are really away from home 13-14 hrs a day.  Cost of living is way high,pay is now 21 and 90 (working 5 days a week)
it is hard to bank any money there.  Oh yeah, had
a few of us get the old today notice, try to get
a refund on rent in Cal sometime!
Good luck trying to staff this Fall
Title: Re: San Onofre
Post by: duke99301 on Mar 12, 2004, 09:04
I worked there in 88 for PSESI was a great place and had lots of fun. I miss thoses days and the people there. it was the last time I seen George winery what ever happend to him??
Title: Re: San Onofre
Post by: UncaBuffalo on Mar 13, 2004, 02:01
SONGS is almost D.O.E.-like in its propensity for saying "That's just the way we do it here" when you point out potential improvements in their programs...AND there is plenty of room for improvements!

Aside from that, it's fairly nice people & decent weather, so if you can afford to just go down to get out of the snow (don't plan on saving any money!), there are worse places to spend a winter.
Title: Re: San Onofre
Post by: bikerdad on Mar 13, 2004, 05:59
Besides the beautiful view of the ocean the remainder leaves a lot to ponder. The hours the cafeteria runs are humorus at best, the prices and food are utterly terrible, the walk from the parking area to the plant is beyond belief and unreasonable. The shuttle is ok...if the lady doesn't want her break at 5:45am when everyone is coming in. Going through security there is at a snails pace with most setting off something or stepping to close to the person in front of you. Prices in the area are laughable for a road tech. And those people can't even drive when it rains.
Title: Re: San Onofre
Post by: Roll Tide on Mar 15, 2004, 05:48
Keep it clean! No personal attacks on open areas. THANKS :-[
Title: Re: San Onofre
Post by: randyman56 on Mar 18, 2004, 07:48
San Onofre, WOW I really do miss that place.  I was there for 2 years working the Decommission of unit one and working the outages.  House people treated me with great respect.  So did the site coordinator.  when I was there we contractors still treated each other like family. (i know that's hard to believe) but we did.  Remember this my friends "don't sh_t in my kitchen".  When you go to a site you are in there kitchen.  if you help them keep a clean kitchen they won't feed you sh_t.

randyman56
Title: Model Plane
Post by: Brigrat on Mar 30, 2004, 04:29
Has anybody heard any information about a model aircraft equiped with a camera crashing near San Onofre?  If this is true, let me know!
Title: Re: San Onofre
Post by: Lamont on Apr 06, 2004, 06:19
Who was the Site coordinator?
I worked there from 89 to 96 and I thought they always had their puppet type coordinator there.

Sorry to hear it was bad for you. I started there and it holds alot of wonderful memories for me.

Title: Re: San Onofre
Post by: harleygirl on Apr 08, 2004, 12:04
Hey randyman I miss it there with you also....

Yes it was 11.5 for 12 but then you also got to play cards at lunch unlike places that pay you 12 for 12 and do not allow any stress relieving downtime.

If you are a loner the rent will kill you financially IT IS CALIFORNIA....try sharing a place.

I still have plenty of friends working back there and most of the house techs are great people and treat you right if you do your work!!!

Really miss the volleyball on the beach after a days work...
Title: Re: San Onofre
Post by: UncaBuffalo on Apr 08, 2004, 03:50
Yes it was 11.5 for 12 but then you also got to play cards at lunch unlike places that pay you 12 for 12 and do not allow any stress relieving downtime.

Of course, just up the coast, you get to play cards any time you aren't in Containment AND they pay you 12.5 for 12 (plus a meal!), but...  ;)
Title: San Onofre
Post by: Camella Black on Apr 08, 2004, 05:32
If anyone has a favorite hang out, place to shop, or local information for this area please post it here.
Title: Re: San Onofre
Post by: harleygirl on Apr 09, 2004, 12:17
Of course, just up the coast, you get to play cards any time you aren't in Containment AND they pay you 12.5 for 12 (plus a meal!), but...  ;)

But not all plants are Diablo either.... or VC summer for that matter where the techs hang out in the bull pen playing cards or reading until the phone rang or your in time came up...at least that is how it used to be.....
Title: Re: San Onofre
Post by: HydroDave63 on Apr 09, 2004, 12:21
plus San Onofre is a much shorter drive to good sushi!  ;D
Title: Re: San Onofre
Post by: harleygirl on Apr 09, 2004, 12:25
The food on the pier in San Clemente was really good too....
Title: Re: San Onofre
Post by: moke on Apr 09, 2004, 09:51
San Onofre to me means two things; Dolly Parton and Great Surf.

San Onofre Beach (Old Mans) is a very special place to me since I was born to be a surfer. We shared a lot of great memories at such a great Beach and many of the staff from the Radiation Protection division participated in a Thursday Pot Luck that was awesome. This was a platform for many to socialize and where many of us excel.

Some of the names I remember are: Rick Shoenig, Glenn Henderson, Judie Posik, Robert and Micky Goodrich, Al Gray and his Family (Ryan?), Mike Hoy, Dan Gallion, Todd and Kyle Adler, Motaz Amin, Bob Corbett, Dave Corbett, Kathy Corbett, Pat Liddy, Steve Eichenberger, Rob Snyder, Dan Pritchett, Jim Hallgren, Bob Wood, Joe Christowski, Mack Grove, Bob DeGlopper, Dave Gill, (someone help me out here).  8)

At the plant, life was great. Much of what we did was done professionally yet we always found time to amuze one another. A Trojan Hard Hat to the infamous Hard Hat sinage and decor the Unit control points saw many an interesting conversation and laughs! At Unit 1, the intensity level would elevate regularly.

Southern California Edison did much to pioneer the Hot Particle subject matter and they along with Battelle PNNL staff helped solved many of the identification and detection techniques that allowed us to get a good handle on the jobs we would supervise. I my case, I spent lots of time with Zone III Hot Particle work & around 20,000 R/hr ICI s or Resin Transfers with Rob from PAC NUC! T

The planning office and such did a great job too, and San Onofre was the first to computerize their access control, planning and work request systems.

We were a pioneer at Spent Fuel Transshipment and wrote the book regarding hot particle detection and associated control measures that many use today. Dr. Eric Golden, Richard Warnock, Terry Cooper, Tosh and other staff were ICRP 106! Fegetaboutit!

I miss Pedros Tacos in San Clemente and Juanita's in Leucadia. The Swamis Surf Spot is one of the best in the world and North San Diego county was great. I don't miss the I-5 traffic yet the Southern California weather is hard to beat!

Spent many great moments with many folks there and some of the finest in our business have walked through those turnstyles!

Have an Awesome Week!

Moke

Title: Re: San Onofre
Post by: felchie on Apr 26, 2004, 10:43
The bottom line is still net income after the outage (to me anyway) perhaps I was out of line with the coord comment, I just don't like to sugar-coat things.
The work wasn't that bad, typical outage stuff and they have their way of doing things......
However, unless the pay/diem goes up, hours go to 6-12's (not 11.5 for 12) it just doesn't make good
fiscal sense to go there vs better paying/higher net
takehome after all expenses are paid.
I will miss the area, a lot of fun....beach, TJ, perfect 10 women in Ralph's grocery wearing very little :P
Title: Re: San Onofre
Post by: HydroDave63 on Dec 26, 2004, 06:16
ok.....who left the elephant trunk in the S/G before startup?!!?
Title: Re: San Onofre
Post by: Already Gone on Dec 27, 2004, 12:12
I see that Unit 3 was still down yesterday.  Is that what happened?  You gotta love a nuke plant that schedules 20 days worth of work for 45 days, tries to impress themselves by getting it done in 35, and usually takes 50.

I really missed the place this time around.  Even though the money sucked big time, it was still better than unemployment, which is usually the only other option during a SONGS outage.  The weather is okay considering the season, the scenery (including at Ralphs) is prime, and there are a lot of things to do with all that time off you get.

I would never have gone there if there had been a paying job happening at the same time, but It was still worth the trip.
Title: Re: San Onofre
Post by: sparkler on Jul 20, 2005, 10:52
Guicho's Eatery Is a great little italian resturaunt. Its mostly take out, but its VERY good. Its a great place to get food on your way to work. I'd suggest calling ahead though, that way your order is ready when you get there. Its only open for lunch and dinner though.

1110 S El Camino Real # B
(949) 481-1070 


Fat Burger is another good one if your on your way to work. I'm not sure what time they open in the morning, but depending on what time you have to work you might be able to pick up breakfast. Its a great stop for a quick dinner on your way to work. Again though i'd suggest calling ahead if your in a hurry.

1017 S El Camino Real
(949) 492-9182 
Title: Re: San Onofre
Post by: usetobe on Jul 22, 2005, 10:01
Is "Surfin' Chcken" still around?  It used to be in the Ralph's shopping center back in the 80's.  Good Stuff.
Title: Re: San Onofre
Post by: sparkler on Aug 03, 2005, 06:50
There isn't a ralphs there anymore, that closed quite a few years back. In fact the whole shopping center has changed, but the surfin chicken is still there. They've expanded there menu too. There is ALOT of different types of food there, but they still have the same chicken.
Title: San Onofre
Post by: raymcginnis on Aug 05, 2005, 07:45
I have not been there for a long time.  Wow, Ralphs is gone?  That is odd!  They are still huge in LA and Ventura counties.  The first time that I came to California, I was driving into San Clemente, it was night-time and there was this huge sign in the air for a grocery store called Alpha Beta.  I thought to myself "Now this is indeed a nuclear town!"  Alpha Beta got bought by Vons, so that experience is gone for 1st time NukeWorkers.  Too bad.

I can't remember the name of the restaraunt, but is was on the South side of El Camino Real, on the right.  It was a Japanese restaraunt.  They had this killer seafood soup, served in an iron bowl.  It was quite delicious!  Their other dishes were also quite excellent.  We used to eat there all of the time.

Near Surfin Chicken was a place called Stuft Crust Pizza that was great and also the best camera store that I have ever walked into.  I can't remember it's name though.  If you are into photography and that store is still there, check it out.
Title: Re: San Onofre
Post by: Aitch-Pee on Aug 06, 2005, 12:25
I seem to remember a little Italian joint called Sonny's.  Many late night heartburn attacks but super marinari sauce - lots of garlic.  Was located west on El Camino Real on the right (north) side a few blocks from the freeway - course that was almost 20 years ago.  Probably still there.
Title: Re: San Onofre
Post by: raymcginnis on Aug 07, 2005, 12:25
Oh darn, I got my left coast and right coast mixed up again.  The Japanese restararaunt is on the north part of El Camino Real.  Sorry.  It is on the right if you are driving North on the main drag.  I just found it on the web.  It is called Taka-O.  It is at 425 N. El Camino Real.  Great people own it and the food is unbelievable.
Title: Re: San Onofre
Post by: Lagb4 on Feb 09, 2006, 12:09
Hello All,
This is my first post, like to say thanks to those who run this site.
I need some info from anyone willing to give it.  I am a Nuke EM1 in the NAVY with just over 12 months left.  My intentions are to live in Orange County area when I get out.  I will have 8 years of experience under the belt as well as EWS/EDPO/TEOOW but no degree.  If anyone has any good info, telephone numbers, names or questions I would appreciate it.  Thanks for the help.
Title: Re: San Onofre
Post by: HydroDave63 on Feb 10, 2006, 03:17
Ah but Beer Court maybe he's staying with his folks? or friends? in a studio apt?

Plus he can always look for the foreclosures nowadays. 

I knew operators at SONGS who had to do foreclosures and bankruptcies...the pay relative to cost of living is probably only worse at Diablo. Far better off finding a plant where you can afford to live on the pay being offered. Does a gorgeous view of other people playing on the beach help you when you're mucking out the kelp from Unit 3 screens and rakes on night shift?  The fresh salt spray as you wait an hour at the Border Patrol checkpoint (with live entertainment of the illegal aliens running across I-5), knowing you will be late for shift changeover AGAIN ?

Then again, once they get the coming INPO *3* rating, there will probably be lots of overtime.
Title: Re: San Onofre
Post by: graydragon67 on Feb 10, 2006, 02:42
I'm too familiar with all of the 'beautiful' people down there HydroDave.  Not only am I a born and raised So Cal boy but, worse yet I was stationed down in S.D. for my 2nd boat.  I remember very well the Horrific traffic of the I15 to I8 interchange.  The traffic jams during ball games at then Jack Murphy stadium.  Having to drive thru the very very expensive neighborhood on Rosecrans to get to the Sub base.  I saw my first real live Ferrari there being driven by someone much younger than I was...sigh.  Oh and let's not forget the heat in the summer and lack of rain during the year.  It is Winter now, right?  And they are having fires there, still??  When those fires are gone, it gives over to mudslides and half of those 'nice' homes on the hill or cliffs go a tumbling away.

If it wasn't for the fact that my family still resides there, I wouldn't even consider going back.  I wish they'd move....sigh.
Title: Re: San Onofre
Post by: Lagb4 on Feb 11, 2006, 12:06
I have family that live in Lake Elsinore so the concern is not really about the area but more about the transitioning from the Navy to a civilian plant.  I appreciate the info.  Getting back to my origanal question about the field,  does anyone have any good info that they may have run across for guys like me? Thanks
Title: Re: San Onofre
Post by: Already Gone on Feb 11, 2006, 09:00
Try looking in the Navy Nuke Getting Out Forum.  I think just about every possible question has been asked and answered there a dozen times or so.
Title: Re: San Onofre
Post by: HydroDave63 on Feb 11, 2006, 10:54
Try looking in the Navy Nuke Getting Out Forum.  I think just about every possible question has been asked and answered there a dozen times or so.

Exactly.

And Highway 74 is a deadly stretch of road on which to commute.
Title: Re: San Onofre
Post by: BuddyThePug on Jul 28, 2006, 03:00
Did somebody mention an INPO 3?  ;)

took years of dedication and hard work....but there it is!
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: arizonie on Aug 22, 2006, 04:49
i am a multiple hp returnee including dayshift last outage.

uncabuffalo and bikerdad are right.

great weather and mostly decent house techs.(less production at all cost push than elsewhere)

lodging costs very high,heavy traffic and high fuel costs may outweigh other positives for some.

and yes its a 20+ minute walk in from parking lot 4 and approx 15 min walk out.

songs is close to az for me though.

ps .  the racoons are gone thx to pest control vendor.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Evilpixie on Aug 22, 2006, 01:41

I had a great time when I worked there, though that was a long time ago.  Still love the area, though it is expensive.  I've been told things have changed alot at the plant... I've heard some peops call it "The Bad Place", not sure why, though. 

Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Chimera on Aug 23, 2006, 10:38
I've done several outages at San Onofre over the last 20+ years.  I like the plant although some of the rooms are terribly cramped when surveying.  I like the people there.  I don't find them any more open- or closed-minded than at other plants.  I understand that when I'm there, my job is to do what they want me to do their way.  I've had some success getting ideas accepted, but they didn't hire me to change their program to suit me.  While I may not always agree with their approach to things, it's what works for them.

I've always stayed in San Clemente and I've had no problems saving money while I'm there.  If I couldn't save any money while I'm there, I probably wouldn't return . . . but it is a great place to spend the winter.  That long walk to and from the parking lot has always been that way.  Think of it as cardio-vascular exercise.  I somehow manage to get my old, fat butt up and down that hill every day in under 15 minutes (unless some idiot in the Security line has to empty each pocket individually).

All in all, I rate San Onofre above average for the plant, the people, and the area (including lodging).
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: vikingfan on Aug 23, 2006, 11:02
I started at SONGS in 1990 as a decon tech and also worked as part of the spent fuel rerack team for unit 2&3. I spent almost 2 yers ther and it was a great place to start and had really good people back then. I can't vouch for it now but overall i would rate it above average.

JJ
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Mike_Koehler on Aug 23, 2006, 03:36
I haven't worked SONGS since about 95, but I do have fond memories of the Plant, House people, and area...... I usually managed to save some $$$$$ while there and the beaches and recreation are excellent. They did things their way which is why they still have some of the longest scheduled outages out there, and I was OK with that. It was my favorite place to work when I was on the road......
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: incrediblehulk on Aug 23, 2006, 05:01
Worked SONGS a number of times, from the "Daddy Frank" era onward. Worked for the best superviser I ever had (Ruth Lubeski) and the very worst (never-you-mind). The place has a dynamic that's like no other in the business. It has some of the finest people I ever met, and some of the most exasperating. I kept going back because no matter how frustrated I got, the people there and the area made it all worthwhile. I never made a lot of dough there, but I never expected to. The cameraderie, the incredible area and volleyball after nightshift was worth the hit to my pocketbook. I still miss the folks there.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: RRhoads on Aug 23, 2006, 06:29
All the years on the road, i've only heard GREAT things about the site coordinator! ;D
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: vikingfan on Aug 24, 2006, 10:42
are you refering to jim moore or frank hamamker?
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: incrediblehulk on Aug 24, 2006, 06:08
Ahhh Frank...
We could fill up an entire topic just with Frank stories.

If he liked you, he could (and would) do more for you than any site coordinator in the business. If he didn't like you, you could do no right...ever...never. I was one of the lucky ones - he liked me and liked my wife. Good thing, 'cause I certainly had my share of "disagreements" with some of the SCE folks. I always thought Jim did a good job after Frank left, but you just can't replace a legend.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Gonzo on Aug 24, 2006, 07:22
Actually, if you haven't seen the SONGS site Coordinator in awhile you might not recognize him...   must be at least 80lbs lighter than he used to be.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: oldodge52 on Aug 24, 2006, 08:22
I started the business there, when Frank was the site coordinator in 1993. All I remember is people saying, "GSF" (Go See Frank) in the same breath as "DFR"
haha
:D
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: vikingfan on Aug 25, 2006, 08:21
I remember one of franks most famous comments was " if you dont do your job there's 200 mexicans on the hill waiting to take your job" or something to that effect. may  not be the most politically sensitive but he could always get your attention. or standing out on his balcony yelling and demeaning someone in front of a few hundred people at shift change.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: incrediblehulk on Aug 25, 2006, 11:05
"Son, there's 200 Marines out there outside the fence who would shoot you  to get your job if I asked them, so why should I listen to this conversation?"

                        - Frank circa 1992
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: lauriema19 on Apr 06, 2007, 10:57
I too was there during Frank H. era 1990-1994.  That is where I got started in this business.  He hired me as a Dosimetry clerk.  Those were the good old days at Songs.  Had the great time out there and met a great bunch of people.   
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: justme on Apr 06, 2007, 01:46
Heard the pay is down there, 19 per hour and 80 a day.  Any truth to that?
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Already Gone on Apr 06, 2007, 05:50
There are different rates for outages and for the Unit 1 Long-termers.  If the U1 gang is getting 18/hr it is actually UP.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Evilpixie on Apr 06, 2007, 06:21
I too was there during Frank H. era 1990-1994.  That is where I got started in this business.  He hired me as a Dosimetry clerk.  Those were the good old days at Songs.  Had the great time out there and met a great bunch of people.   

I got my start as a dosimetry clerk down there, too.  1989.  That was such a fun outage!  Parties out at Bedrock or on the pier in San Clemente... and there are so many great peops working there!  I really loved it down there.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Brett LaVigne on Apr 06, 2007, 06:34
Heard the pay is down there, 19 per hour and 80 a day.  Any truth to that?

I was there for the last outage (Dec. 06).  $23/hr and $100/day with a $1/hr bonus (Yipeeeee!!)

I think that was my...5th...maybe 6th outage there.  I too was there when Frank H. was there, just a sweetheart of a guy! ;)

Love the plant and the people, I'll be back when the pay goes up.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: lauriema19 on Apr 06, 2007, 08:48
Hey Evilpixie, were you there when I started?
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Lamont on Apr 27, 2007, 05:19
I started there in 89 left there in 95...I am sure I have met all of the people who have posted here if they were there during that time.

Loved the place...Just a wee 18 year old tot when they threw me in. Frank H. was a scary dude to me back then.

From the descriptions in these replies, I think I could guess some of you by your user names.

Everyone there was great!! Even my Ex-wife...(that took alot hehehe)
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: vikingfan on Apr 28, 2007, 10:07
Spent almost 2 years there, was part of the unit 2&3 rerack team. was a great palnt to get my start at ! now 17 years later i'm still playing in reactor water !!..lol gotta love it.

JJ
Title: Re: San Onofre
Post by: Lorrie Henson on Apr 29, 2007, 08:48
Thank you SloGlo!! 

If we end up going there, that's the route I'll take.   I am a bit confused as to when the outage is to start, as two different sites have the start date a month apart.  I would guess that Bartlett's is correct, since they have the HP contract, but not sure...I'll have to call to find out and to see if the pay has gone up since Jim was there last.   I'm not too sure I want to be away from home at Christmas, know what I mean?

Thanks again!!
Lorrie
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Evilpixie on Apr 30, 2007, 08:16
Hey Evilpixie, were you there when I started?

I was there from August 1989 to November 1989.  I was on nights, also.  Most of the time, at least.  Some of the time over at Unit 1, then also in the cage at Unit 2&3.  What about you?  If you really started in 1990, we may have missed each other... bummer!
Title: Re: San Onofre
Post by: Brett LaVigne on May 03, 2007, 02:19
They are having a forced outage before the refuel outage.  I believe that they are trying to do the forced one with the house and limited carnie techs that are already there.  The Bartlett date should be the one to go on for the refuel outage.

Expensive to live and low pay but I have heard rumors of a slight increase for this fall, would have to confirm that with the office or Jim.
Title: Finding out about SONGS
Post by: jblunt92482 on Aug 08, 2007, 12:30
Hello to all.  I'm currently in the process of getting hired at SONGS as an operator.  I'm at the interview stage of the application process.  If there are any SONGS operators who see this thread, I'm trying to find out what the morale is on the plant site.  Does the plant run well?  What's it like on a typical day or night of standing watch?  Do people like what they do?  What is working in the union like?

Thanks for your help and honesty!!

Title: Re: Finding out about SONGS
Post by: tr on Aug 08, 2007, 01:41
While not an operator, I do work at SONGS.  Since I'm not in Ops, I can't really give you any info as to how they feel or are treated.  Currently, the plant is struggling (INPO 3 rating, long outages, etc.).   This means that there are management, process, and culture changes underway.  While the preceding looks bad, most of the people I encounter seem to enjoy working here (as much as any job can be enjoyed), and you can't beat the weather. 
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Marvin on Aug 10, 2007, 01:04
I was there from January 87 through January 89, first with Rad Services, then with SCE during the flea years.  I learned a lot at San Onofre and have fond memories (funny how we seem to forget the tough things over the years).

Great place to work, great people and the California weather is great; however, the 20 million plus people in southern California can be a bit much.   ;D

Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: SloGlo on Aug 10, 2007, 03:06
i owuz at song from '80- 81 with combustion engineering during there s/g u-tube outage.  got their befour boone barret did.  left not too long after.  plant wuzant too bad, dooley mccluskeys place was ok, but dat whether................. so fricken boring!
Title: Re: Finding out about SONGS
Post by: Brett LaVigne on Aug 13, 2007, 12:23
Hello to all.  I'm currently in the process of getting hired at SONGS as an operator.  I'm at the interview stage of the application process.  If there are any SONGS operators who see this thread, I'm trying to find out what the morale is on the plant site.  Does the plant run well?  What's it like on a typical day or night of standing watch?  Do people like what they do?  What is working in the union like?

Thanks for your help and honesty!!



While I enjoy working at SONGS I have to admit that there has always been a tradition of distrust and always having to look over your shoulder. This is a general statement based on my experiences there in HP from around 94 off and on until the last outage. There are some wonderful people that work there but they have some real work to do to build the team. I can not speak for Ops as I am not a part of that department but I always got the impression that it was a problem with the site and not just HP.

These things are very hard to get over once they have set roots. In my opinion (and this is all just one persons opinion) there are some very good management folks there that seem to be commited to facilitating the change. I am optimistic that it will get better with time and hard work and would not discourage anyone from taking on the challenge, it won't always be this way.

As a contractor you have to take my opinions for what they are, I don't work there year round, I only observe in snap shots. For all the bad that people in my field say about the site (poor morale, low pay etc.) I find myself enjoying the plant and am only hesitent about going back because of the money and only the money.  The area is not as great as people say due to the immense volumes of people that live in the area, I personally don't care much for that part of California compared to the mid-coast but again, that is an opinion.

Good luck, sounds like you have a good opportunity.
Title: Re: Finding out about SONGS
Post by: Arkane on Aug 13, 2007, 05:48
Hello to all.  I'm currently in the process of getting hired at SONGS as an operator.  I'm at the interview stage of the application process.  If there are any SONGS operators who see this thread, I'm trying to find out what the morale is on the plant site.  Does the plant run well?  What's it like on a typical day or night of standing watch?  Do people like what they do?  What is working in the union like?

Thanks for your help and honesty!!
Hi.  Are you applying for the ANPEO position?  I just took the MASS/POSS test this past weekend.  I'm anxiously awaiting the results.  If I pass then the knowledge test is in 2 weeks.  Any pointers on the interview? ;) Feel free to PM if you want.
Title: Re: Finding out about SONGS
Post by: jb807 on Aug 23, 2007, 03:44
Hello to all.  I'm currently in the process of getting hired at SONGS as an operator.  I'm at the interview stage of the application process.  If there are any SONGS operators who see this thread, I'm trying to find out what the morale is on the plant site.  Does the plant run well?  What's it like on a typical day or night of standing watch?  Do people like what they do?  What is working in the union like?

Thanks for your help and honesty!!

any news yet about the job?  I took the MASS/POSS exam back in May when they first posted the job opening but I didn't do quite as good on the knowledge exam.  Just figured they would have hired someone by now.  Curious to hear how the interview/hiring process works after passing the exams.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Arkane on Aug 28, 2007, 08:11
You should call to schedule a re-test.  I took the knowledge exam this past Saturday.  They were also doing another round of MASS/POSS testing.  I'm guessing in two weeks there should be another knowledge exam scheduled.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: jb807 on Aug 28, 2007, 10:32
You should call to schedule a re-test.  I took the knowledge exam this past Saturday.  They were also doing another round of MASS/POSS testing.  I'm guessing in two weeks there should be another knowledge exam scheduled.

haha.  yeah, I actually retook the knowledge exam this past Saturday also.  I was the first one done if you happen to remember.  I got a phone call sunday night saying i passed and now have an interview tomorrow (Wednesday).  talking to other people at the test they said they heard that SCE does a mass hiring of ANPEO's like twice a year. 
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: weirjf on Aug 30, 2007, 02:30
jb807 : What did you use to study for the knowledge Exam? I have the links for their booklets on thermodynamics, fluid mechanics, physics, basic math: did you use anything else? I just Failed the knowledge exam and am trying to re-take it and was wondering what I could use to study.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: jb807 on Aug 30, 2007, 02:55
I only used the study guide that was given at the westrain.org site.  I didn't really study the material at all the first time i took the test which is why i failed.  I skimmed through the study guides for about an hour before taking the test the 2nd time and I guess that helped since I passed.  both tests I took were very similar so now that you've taken it once you should know what kind of stuff you need to look at in the study guides. 
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Arkane on Aug 30, 2007, 05:33
Yeah, same thing here. I got the call Sunday night and had my interview on Tuesday. I can't believe we have to wait a month before we hear anything. It's killing me. Do you know approximately how many ANPEOs they're looking to hire this time around? 

weirjf: The westrain study material is all you need.. it's actually very comprehensive.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: weirjf on Aug 30, 2007, 07:02
Yeah, same thing here. I got the call Sunday night and had my interview on Tuesday. I can't believe we have to wait a month before we hear anything. It's killing me. Do you know approximately how many ANPEOs they're looking to hire this time around? 

weirjf: The westrain study material is all you need.. it's actually very comprehensive.
I've studied fuid mechanics ch.1-2, but I still need to study ch.3 as well as thermodynamics: another reason why I probably failed. I really want to pass the test! Even if I don't get hired it will just make me feel so much better knowing that I can pass it: hearing that jb807 passed after having failed it once makes me feel better. I know someone who works there and I think It would just be such a step-up from my current job.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: nuelemma on Sep 25, 2007, 08:36
Have anyone received any news from Edison for the ANPEO position ??? I also had the interview a month ago and the waiting is killing me.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: jb807 on Sep 26, 2007, 01:02
nothing yet.  expecting the letter in the mail this week with the yay or nay  :D
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: jb807 on Sep 29, 2007, 05:39
well, nothing in the mail today so I guess they were a little off when they said we'd get something by the end of September.   :(
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: flamatrix99 on Sep 29, 2007, 08:08
When I got hired at River Bend, I interviewed in June didnt hear anything til August and finally got an offer letter in Sept and started in Jan. I know it is a pain but patience....

Doug
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Arkane on Oct 02, 2007, 01:40
<sigh> this is the third test.. to see how much waiting one can endure. :D
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: xobxdoc on Oct 09, 2007, 09:30
I really miss Songs. It was my 1st job off the boat. Worked for Rad Services when Zdrakas was coordinator. I got to do the beach survey. I hear it has changed. Too bad. Spent many Thurdays after work playing volleyball until the sunset and then on to Sonny's for dinner. I hear the Fishtail doesn't exist anymore. A lot of great memories there. Operating at CCNPP now.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: montanamike on Mar 19, 2008, 11:57
I currently work at SONGS and worked there for 31 years. I have been management 3 times and been a UWUA local 246 member for last 28 years. this plant is in serious trouble at this time being inpo 3 and heading to inpo 4(my opinion)  the new VP wants to keep his Operators and dump the company's union members in favour of temp contactors. They seem unable to change the way they do business. It will be a sad day to see them go to inpo 4 and perhaps have turn the plant over to some else to run. There is a total lack of respect for the employee's now not like the old days when there was a feeling of team spirit. Now I just look forward to retiring,
truely a sad way to finish a career.  :(
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: deanferraro82 on Apr 15, 2008, 01:36
I just started as an AHPT at SONGS and really enjoy it. My class of AHPTs is a great group of people. ;D
There seems to be a lot of negativity towards SONGS on this forum.
I understand some may not have a great opinion of SONGS, but I feel those people are just biased towards California to begin with. Being a native Californian, I left and went to college back east. Some people there (Pittsburgh-area) seemed to be either jealous or outright disrespectful when they found out where I grew up. It's kinda weird.
Whatever though... I'd rather be part of the solution, by working hard, and getting SONGS's INPO rating back to where it belongs(#1).
Honestly, a nuke plant on the beach, with great waves, perfect weather, and low carbon emissions... sounds solid to me. See you during the next refueling outage... :P
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: xobxdoc on Apr 15, 2008, 04:48
Just wait until you try to buy a house within reasonable commuting distance on an HPs salary.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on Apr 15, 2008, 06:54
and getting SONGS's INPO rating back to where it belongs(#1).

Nothing short of a large alien mothership using a tractor beam to abduct the K-50 and OCC buildings while occupied would reverse the current 10 degree down bubble on SONGS INPO rating.

Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Brett LaVigne on Apr 16, 2008, 10:08
I just started as an AHPT at SONGS and really enjoy it. My class of AHPTs is a great group of people. ;D
There seems to be a lot of negativity towards SONGS on this forum.
I understand some may not have a great opinion of SONGS, but I feel those people are just biased towards California to begin with. Being a native Californian, I left and went to college back east. Some people there (Pittsburgh-area) seemed to be either jealous or outright disrespectful when they found out where I grew up. It's kinda weird.
Whatever though... I'd rather be part of the solution, by working hard, and getting SONGS's INPO rating back to where it belongs(#1).
Honestly, a nuke plant on the beach, with great waves, perfect weather, and low carbon emissions... sounds solid to me. See you during the next refueling outage... :P

One of the biggest drivers for the negative feelings toward SONGS where road techs are concerned is the fact that you just can't make any money at this plant. I have been there many times and even the last two outages. The last one I worked in the fall of 2007 I actually left site with less money than when I showed up. I would have been better off to stay home and collect unemployment.
While I agree that the weather is nice, the waves are great and the view from the turb-deck is nice...NONE of that pays my bills and that is why we are there.

Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Already Gone on Apr 16, 2008, 10:23
Nobody works at SONGS to make money.  They work there because they want to live there (or within an hour or two).  The long-tern contractors forsake even the meager pay that the outage contractors get.  And the outage crowd only comes because there is nothing else happening and the place rocks.  It is like a paid vacation for the roadies.

Look forward to this fall, when they will be having their outage during the actual outage season.  They are either going to come up with some $$$$$ or be really hard up for people.

Still, I miss that place a lot.  It was such a great place to be.  The memory of those two outages I worked there holds a special place in my heart.  I really wish I could go back.  The people, the weather, the atmosphere, the view, the attitude, the food... Too bad about the money.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: deanferraro82 on May 07, 2008, 09:00
Yeah money is definitely an issue, but it is California. Honestly though what job pays you exactly what you want? Jobs usually pay just enough to keep you around. As a full-time employee Edison, has a sweet benefits package, that helps alot... do contractors at SONGS get anything close to what Edison employees get?
I also heard welders are in short supply too...
Title: BEST FOOD Near SONGS???
Post by: deanferraro82 on May 07, 2008, 09:06
Where are the best places to go eat near SONGS? Any discounts? Best Mexican? Best pizza? Best burger joint? Cheapest?

We like our cafeteria BUT... the selection gets old. It's nice to get out to town to grab a bite to eat. Where do you go?

I like Pedro's Tacos, S.ECR (the one on N.ECR has markedly crappier quality, like using old oil, etc.). The rolled tacos, bean and cheese burrito, and carne asada burrito are tasty :P. Moderate prices.
Title: Re: BEST FOOD Near SONGS???
Post by: tr on May 07, 2008, 09:38
El Mariachi for Mexican, Mr. Pete for burgers and chicken tenders, Fatburger for burgers, Mandarin Garden for Chinese, and Sonny's for Italian are all good.

PS If you like the cafeteria, you must not be on the Mesa!
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Already Gone on May 08, 2008, 10:07
Molly Blooms
The Rib Trader
The two places on the pier are good too.  Try the local lobster - it is really different from what we get out this way.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Brett LaVigne on Jul 10, 2008, 09:26
Yeah money is definitely an issue, but it is California. Honestly though what job pays you exactly what you want? Jobs usually pay just enough to keep you around. As a full-time employee Edison, has a sweet benefits package, that helps alot... do contractors at SONGS get anything close to what Edison employees get?
I also heard welders are in short supply too...



Plants that pay me what I want...Diablo Canyon

Plants that pay me a satisfactory wage for the area...DC Cook, Cooper, Palo Verde (now that they have upped the wage and hours).

HP Contractors at SONGS are financally abused compared to other plants. I was there last fall and the compensation difference between contractors and Edison was in the neighborhood of 50% more for Edison if you consider the benefits. Or $12/hour more for Edison RP's compared to Contract RP's. But the good news is that for your $12/hour less, you get to be the one in the cavity, or covering what ever hot job is going on.

It is very unfortunate for me since I like to work there. I will be skipping it this fall and in the future unless something changes.

I will say that I like the house RP's there and some of the best house assistant RP's I have worked with. If the assistants are a glimpse of the future RP department, it looks pretty good.

You would think paying such a small group (RP) a reasonable wage would be a good investment to attract a consistantly good group of contractors. Works for other plants.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: workinman on Jul 11, 2008, 04:22
Brett, I can remember when the Union laborers were making more than we were as Senior Techs!  I too miss the good times had at SONGS but it never was a big money maker!

PK
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: spciesla on Jul 12, 2008, 10:33
My opinion on food choices:

Mexican - La Siesta (Carnitas by the pound), Surfin' Chicken, Pedros, Wahoos
Chinese - Mandarin Garden
Burgers - Fatburger, Mr Petes
Seafood - The Fisherman (Pier)

I almost always choose the lunch truck (Gaby's) over the cafeteria.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Already Gone on Jul 12, 2008, 11:44
Brett, I can remember when the Union laborers were making more than we were as Senior Techs!  I too miss the good times had at SONGS but it never was a big money maker!

PK

You don't have to think back too far.  They still do in the Exelon plants and many others.  I'm not sure, but I'm thinking they still are at SONGS too.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Brett LaVigne on Jul 12, 2008, 03:05
Brett, I can remember when the Union laborers were making more than we were as Senior Techs!  I too miss the good times had at SONGS but it never was a big money maker!

PK

Hey PK! We were laughing and talking about you at Diablo. Something about a picture that was taken at a party in San Diego? Those were the days for sure. Hope all is well brother!
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: workinman on Jul 14, 2008, 09:06
Hey PK! We were laughing and talking about you at Diablo. Something about a picture that was taken at a party in San Diego? Those were the days for sure. Hope all is well brother!

Ah yes! The infamaous "Tea Bag"

Things are good here at Calhoun but it's still not the Beach bro!
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: rekrowekun on Aug 10, 2008, 09:54
After I badged in, the supervisor sent me to the intake to change out the seals, I looked over into the intake and there were real live seals swimming around down there!
Title: applicant asks: hours, overtime, days off, what's it like??
Post by: Droshen on Sep 17, 2008, 08:51
I'm scheduled for POSS test soon for San Onofre (SONGS) location as ANPEO.  Other than stating wages are $27/hr and 12hr rotating shift, very little info available.  Sounds like a good job, but wanted more info.  Days off?  Hours per week?  overtime?  Exactly what is the schedule?  Average hours per week?  vacations?  inside concrete structure 12 hours tough? What are wages when you become NPEO?    Much thanks in advance, Droshen.......... 
Title: Re: applicant asks: hours, overtime, days off, what's it like??
Post by: dinutt on Sep 17, 2008, 09:18
Droshen   It sounds like you may need to call them back to ask all these questions .they are all important for you to know up front on  this job.it sounds like it may be a job in Operations as an NLO ?.they work alot of shift work,lots of overtime etc and the money sounds like it could be right and the POSS test is usually the test of choice for that position. do you have the material to look at for the POSS test.there is some info on the site here to reference to.  Best of luck to you    Anyone else got some helpful suggestion out  there??

Di
Title: Re: applicant asks: hours, overtime, days off, what's it like??
Post by: HydroDave63 on Sep 17, 2008, 10:24
I'm scheduled for POSS test soon for San Onofre (SONGS) location as ANPEO.  Other than stating wages are $27/hr and 12hr rotating shift, very little info available.  Sounds like a good job, but wanted more info.  Days off?  Hours per week?  overtime?  Exactly what is the schedule?  Average hours per week?  vacations?  inside concrete structure 12 hours tough? What are wages when you become NPEO?    Much thanks in advance, Droshen.......... 

Last I heard, it was

7-330 M-F during ANPEO quals, no OT while training

Once on shift, 5 crew rotation, with a training week every 6 weeks and a 7 off somewhere in there. Count on some OT.

not sure what you are asking re: concrete structure. NPEO is moving around a lot, steam side has several levels, lots of stairs and 40 acres of valves, only half of which are rusted stuck due to salt air.

wages are in the UWUA contract book. No need worrying about what you COULD make in the future, if you dont pass the interview.

Fundamentally, you need to look at the cost of living in that area vs ANPEO wage. If you can make it on that, then your raises will be gravy and you will be content. If you already have your toys and coastal condo and hot wheels already picked out ... you can join the other folks that went BK, but with an awesome beach view...
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Droshen on Sep 18, 2008, 12:04
Thanks Dinutt and HydroDave:

Dave: could you be more specific ("Once on shift, 5 crew rotation, with a training week every 6 weeks and a 7 off somewhere in there. Count on some OT.")?  I don't know what a "rotating crew" is.  As I look at the (I'm afraid to count the pages) stack of Westrain material I printed out for review, I am curious to know what approximately the NPEO pay is and how long it takes the typical employee to reach that level before I make the jump from my current job if accepted.  This info may be available from SCE if I advance thru the process, but at this point I haven't found any info from their site.   

I already have a good rental setup in Costa Mesa, so I would commute (I already drive that far to my current job).  The question I asked about "concrete structure" is basically this: in my imagination, I see the job as being inside a concrete structure for 12 hours with no exposure to fresh air and sunlight- this could have subtle side effects to health- my imagination running wild?

Thanks much, Droshen........... 
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: randyman56 on Sep 18, 2008, 08:51
first, you don't go to SONGS for the money. this is southern cal. enough said. 

the best burgers in the country are found a little shack called "NESSY'S" located in fall brook area.

if i hadn't fallen in love and got married and started having babies and stuff i would be in san clemente RIGHT NOW.
so here i sit with no life in hanford, this is your fault tommy buchel.

randyman
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: tr on Sep 18, 2008, 04:55
Rotating shifts means that you working something like 3 (or 4) 12 hour days in a row, followed by 3 or so days off, followed by 3 (or 4) 12 hour nights.  There is also a week of days for training/relief shift and a period of 7 days off in a row somewhere in there.

Note that if you're current commute is not in southern California, the 35 miles between Costa Mesa and SONGS could take a LOT longer (the 6 am to 6 pm shift basically means you're dealing with rush hour when you drive home at 6:00 am, or drive in at 6:00 pm).

If you're working in the nuclear side of the plant (reactor support systems), you will spend most of your time inside concrete buildings.  The turbine side of the plant is a mixed bag, with some areas inside buildings, and some literally outside (which can be a bad deal when it rains or seagulls fly over!).
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: dinutt on Sep 18, 2008, 05:05
 :D well said tr + K 2U  this is pretty much what it is!!!

Di
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Droshen on Sep 19, 2008, 07:11
That's good info.  Do the approx 3 days off also rotate?  I personally prefer days off during the week.  It sounds like to time off moves around and gradually shifts from week days to weekends.  Three off in a row is great.  Actually the schedule sounds great (graveyard shift sounds tough though- done it before).  Commute situation sounds grim.  Still not clear how this would translate paycheck wise in terms of regular hours and OT hours per week or per month.  Sounds like roughly 40 hrs reg and 8hrs OT/week.

POSS test next week- doesn't sound  too tough: I'm worried about the knowledge test (studying a little already).  Difficult material but interesting- I've always been curious about this type of equipment.

Other question: is there any knowledge or hunches about the future of SONGS?  I saw some of the mixed posts about the morale and rating woes, but I have no idea if there is any plan to shut this facility down at some point.  It seems to me that all things considered, as oil peaks and people are waking up and starting to think seriously about energy, nuclear generating will be viewed more favorably and may get increased support from the public and politicians.  There are very diverse opinions about nuclear power and I have a lot to learn about it.

Again, much thanks to you and I appreciate the help- Droshen.................
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: tr on Sep 19, 2008, 11:12
The current licenses expire in 2023, and will probably be renewed for another 20 years (as pretty much all plants are doing this now).  The steam generators will be replaced in the next two years, which is a huge capital investment in the plant.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Droshen on Sep 19, 2008, 12:18
That's good news- possibly more job security than many other professions.  Thanks.......
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: yeehaw on Sep 20, 2008, 06:48
Links below are publicly accessible.

UWUA Local 246
http://www.uwua246.org

Latest negotiations
http://www.uwua246.org/HOMEPAGE/Documents/2008Negotiations/2008ContractNegotiations1h.pdf

UWUA Local 246 Blog
http://blog.uwua246.org/?p=2

union/company contract (aka 'Working Agreement')
http://www.uwua246.org/SONGS/index.asp

first 7-8 months classroom training, 7am-330pm.
last ANPEO class had to take the NRC GFES Exam after first 10 weeks.
http://www.nrc.gov/reactors/operator-licensing/generic-fundamentals-examinations/pwr.html
2 out of 15 failed. ---> 13 left in class.

current and soon to be defunct "experimental" 12-hr rotation:
[ref. page 11 of latest contract negotiations]
4 nights
3 off
4 days
7 off
3 nights
4 off
3 days
'relief shift' week (32 hours classroom or on-shift)
repeat
[ref. pages 56-60 in 'Working Agreement Vol 2' see above]

back to 8-hr rotating shifts... yeehaw

feel free to verify with your hiring manager and ask about new 8-hr rotating schedule
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Droshen on Sep 22, 2008, 02:02
Thanks yeehaw

That shift is all over the place but I like it (I think). 

I was told to respond to edisonsctesting.com by Sept 18 (which I did); but I've had no response from them (testing supposedly this Weds, Sept. 24).  Only get answering machine when I call contact phone provided in email.

I've discovered EEI POSS practice test guides on line- hard to imagine stretching that type of test 4 hours.

thanks, Droshen............... 
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Droshen on Sep 23, 2008, 01:46
Dear group:

I responded by email and by phone well within deadline when I was notified by email of scheduled EEI POSS testing on Sept 24 (tomorrow) for SONGS, and have received no confirmation.  Apparently for some reason I will not be taking the EEI POSS test, and I receive no responses by email or phone.  I guess it's possible I will receive a message later today.  Is this normal procedure?  I'm not familiar with SCE and wondered if anyone might have an idea what's going on.  Thanks, Droshen........
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Droshen on Sep 24, 2008, 09:12
Just been notified that I will test Monday the 29th, and apparently will be given both tests at same time!  Is this normal?  Thought POSS test, then knowledge test about 2 weeks later.  I'm working full time- will be hard to make much progress studying the Westrain materials.  Are re-tests allowed/common for SONGS ANPEO applicants?  Thanks, Droshen..........
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on Sep 24, 2008, 10:41
Just been notified that I will test Monday the 29th, and apparently will be given both tests at same time!  Is this normal? 
Yes. DMV expects you to have all the knowledge to drive when you take their exam, Ops wants to see if you retain a critical mass of knowledge sufficient to qualify as a competent NPEO.

Are re-tests allowed/common for SONGS ANPEO applicants? 
If you dont pass.....there will likely be another hiring class in a year or so
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: dinutt on Sep 25, 2008, 12:32
Droshen glad you get to test now.Best of  luck on taking both the same time frame .at least it will be over with and don't go into  it thinking you wont be successful....positive thoughts.. Is it  the Norm not sure  ,I always thought they waited and each was taken on separate dates but not sure how they do business(SONGS)

Di
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Droshen on Sep 25, 2008, 04:22
Di, HydroDave

My original test notification post basically said tests at separate times- people out of town flying in for test were asked to notify test department so it could be arranged for both tests on the same day in their case.  Also, many posts in these forums seemed to refer to 10 day or more time space between tests.  Makes me wonder what the background of the average ANPEO applicant is: do they have prior knowledge/experience with info like that in the Westrain lessons, or are they mostly studying at the last minute?  I've familiarized myself with the calculator used for the test and made it thru 1 and 1/2 chapters.  Also saw some programmable logic controller style schematics in sample tests- have to brush up on that.

"Where never is heard a discouraging word, and the skies are not cloudy all day...."  Thanks for info and support, Droshen..........
 
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: yeehaw on Sep 25, 2008, 10:34
For people who don't have to fly in, there's usually a 1 week study period between the MASS/POSS and knowledge exam. 

Droshen, what's your background in?
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Droshen on Sep 25, 2008, 11:41
Owned my own auto repair business for 20 years, now a mechanic for fleet of 70 petroleum tanker trucks.  Vertical and overhead stick welding certifications, industrial refrigeration certification, 2 year industrial electricity certificate in 2005 with Programmable logic controller (PLC) training.  Math, chemistry, and physics in high school.  Most of the Westrain info sofar makes sense to me but the lessons towards the end at this point look ominous.  I find alot of this stuff interesting, but I like to understand concepts thoroughly.  HR said some management personal change has made things a little disorganized.  I have emailed HR for confirmation of double testing. 

Droshen
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Droshen on Sep 27, 2008, 01:03
Just for the hell of it, I called my HR contact phone Friday before work and a person answered (the only time).  The HR person who sent me the original email test notice is no longer working there and the other main HR person was off.  The fill-in person was able to tell me that only the POSS test is being given to us on Monday.  Hectic. 
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Paulers on Oct 05, 2008, 10:06
Droshen

Good luck With the Poss - Things are a little strange here with the transition to 8 hour days.  Working 7 days in a row with none of them counting as O.T. seems wrong - but it is legal.  Dealing with HR can be frustrating - be patient.  Keep trying to get in - you can always take the Year of paid OPS training, work for a while and then go to another plant.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on Oct 06, 2008, 06:37
Droshen

Good luck With the Poss - Things are a little strange here with the transition to 8 hour days.  Working 7 days in a row with none of them counting as O.T. seems wrong - but it is legal.  Dealing with HR can be frustrating - be patient.  Keep trying to get in - you can always take the Year of paid OPS training, work for a while and then go to another plant.

Is it 7 on 7 off, or what kind of 8 hr schedule? With only 8 hours on shift, I doubt I'd get enough time in Full Flow to cool off ;)
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Paulers on Oct 06, 2008, 08:10
7 Days (Thusday thru Wed) 2 Days off (Thurs & Fri) Come in Friday Night for 7 Graves (Sat thru Fri) 2 Days off (Sat & Sun)

The a mix of whatever "relief shift" 5 out of the next 7 Days (Mon - Sun) or a Training week M-F days The following Mon & Tue are off so you could have 4 days off - our long change?

Back to work 6 Days in a row (Wed - Mon) Days - then two days off and start the cycle again!

Since the schedule bridges work-weeks there is no built-in overtime with the exception of daily 15 min turnovers.  What a deal 7 in a row and work Sat and Sun for straight time!
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Laundry Man on Oct 07, 2008, 08:43

Since the schedule bridges work-weeks there is no built-in overtime with the exception of daily 15 min turnovers.  What a deal 7 in a row and work Sat and Sun for straight time!
[/quote]

And we all thought being in Management stunk!
LM
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on Oct 07, 2008, 09:55

The a mix of whatever "relief shift" 5 out of the next 7 Days (Mon - Sun) or a Training week M-F days The following Mon & Tue are off so you could have 4 days off - our long change?

NO more Crew A sushi-fest at start of 7 offs? :( 

What will they think of next!
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Droshen on Oct 08, 2008, 03:19
Didn't think I did too good on POSS but I did get a note saying I had passed.  Thanks for the help.  From what I understand, this means that I will be scheduled for knowledge test soon.  Been studying Westrain- enthalpy kicking my butt. 

Can't say that I like the sound of the new schedule.  As I think of the possibility of working there, naturally, I need to know not only what the hourly wage is (27.50), but what it adds up to per month or year based on combination of straight and overtime so I know what the bottom like is before I make my jump from my current job.  Thanks to some info I've received in this thread and talking to someone at the POSS test, sounds like the current/old 12hr shift setup amounts to around 16hrs OT per month.  I liked that schedule and the time off- intense work period; then significant time off.  Did not know it was legal to work over 40 hrs in a week and not get OT- thought anything over 8 or 40 was OT in California.  Does the new schedule amount to a reduction of annual or monthly income? 
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: vikingfan on Oct 08, 2008, 01:29
you might check the ca labor laws also, not sure but i believe if you work 7 consecutive days, the 7th day is a double time day. it was 2 years ago anyhow.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Droshen on Oct 08, 2008, 01:48
Is this schedule actually being used at this time for (A)NPEO's?  Are there contract negotiations?  Is this possibly an attempt by the company to gain leverage in contract negotiations?
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Droshen on Oct 08, 2008, 02:13
From gov site.  "Exemptions" did not seem to apply.  Not sure about "exceptions".

"In California, the general overtime provisions are that a nonexempt employee 18 years of age or older, or any minor employee 16 or 17 years of age who is not required by law to attend school and is not otherwise prohibited by law from engaging in the subject work, shall not be employed more than eight hours in any workday or more than 40 hours in any workweek unless he or she receives one and one-half times his or her regular rate of pay for all hours worked over eight hours in any workday and over 40 hours in the workweek. Eight hours of labor constitutes a day's work, and employment beyond eight hours in any workday or more than six days in any workweek is permissible provided the employee is compensated for the overtime at not less than:

         1. One and one-half times the employee's regular rate or pay for all hours worked in excess of eight hours up to and including 12 hours in any workday, and for the first eight hours worked on the seventh consecutive day of work in a workweek; and
         2. Double the employee's regular rate or pay for all hours worked in excess of 12 hours in any workday and for all hours worked in excess of eight on the seventh consecutive day of work in a workweek.

There are, however, a number of exemptions from the overtime law.  An "exemption" means that the overtime law does not apply to a particular classification of employees.  There are also a number of exceptions to the general overtime law stated above. An "exception" means that overtime is paid to a certain classification of employees on a basis that differs from that stated above."
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on Oct 08, 2008, 05:17
From gov site.  "Exemptions" did not seem to apply.  Not sure about "exceptions".

"In California, the general overtime provisions are that a nonexempt employee 18 years of age or older, or any minor employee 16 or 17 years of age who is not required by law to attend school and is not otherwise prohibited by law from engaging in the subject work, shall not be employed more than eight hours in any workday or more than 40 hours in any workweek unless he or she receives one and one-half times his or her regular rate of pay for all hours worked over eight hours in any workday and over 40 hours in the workweek. Eight hours of labor constitutes a day's work, and employment beyond eight hours in any workday or more than six days in any workweek is permissible provided the employee is compensated for the overtime at not less than:

         1. One and one-half times the employee's regular rate or pay for all hours worked in excess of eight hours up to and including 12 hours in any workday, and for the first eight hours worked on the seventh consecutive day of work in a workweek; and
         2. Double the employee's regular rate or pay for all hours worked in excess of 12 hours in any workday and for all hours worked in excess of eight on the seventh consecutive day of work in a workweek.

There are, however, a number of exemptions from the overtime law.  An "exemption" means that the overtime law does not apply to a particular classification of employees.  There are also a number of exceptions to the general overtime law stated above. An "exception" means that overtime is paid to a certain classification of employees on a basis that differs from that stated above."

Your questions on ANPEO schedules were answered previously, did you not read them? Had you researched one of the "exemptions" above, you would find that a Collective Bargaining Agreement is one of the exemptions. Either take the job (if offered) or don't, but don't ask questions if you aren't going to read the answers that people take time to provide.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: dinutt on Oct 08, 2008, 05:39
Droshen   Congrats on passing the POSS test!!! :D now, you really need to talk with the bargaining unit (agreement) folks there and find out what all this pay scale and hours worked etc are all about.if you take this job and get there and then find out the answers to all your questions  is not what you are expecting ( everyone here on the site has been very good in providing you with some here),but exhausting yourself and trying to find out all this money issues is something you should find out prior to taking this job.It has to be important enough for you ask here but  the company who hired you for this  position and the bargaining agreement is what you need to check on from here whether you take or not this job offer. whatever you decide to do make sure you understand what you are getting yourself into.if not you could get there and be mad at yourself for taking this job and it could make it a miserable place to have to work at..just some thoughts for you. Best of luck .........

Di
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: tr on Oct 08, 2008, 07:30
The 12 hour day work schedule was an "experimental" work schedule, which had been in place at SONGS for years.  In August, the union decide to cancel the experiment.  See page 10 at:

http://www.uwua246.org/HOMEPAGE/Documents/2008Negotiations/2008ContractNegotiations1h.pdf

Other than the general issue of contract negotiations, I do not know why the union made this decision.

Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Droshen on Oct 09, 2008, 05:14
Thanks for the interesting responses.  Paulers: based on your layout of the schedule and HydroDave's claim that apparently the normal California "OT over 40" rule has been waived thru "Collective Bargaining Agreement", I came up with figure of average weekly pay of 43.3 X straight time pay.  I think this is almost the same bottom line as the previous "experimental" setup which I think is 43.8 X straight time.  I thought this was management's idea- seems odd that the union, which usually represents the will of the workers, would implement this schedule since your consensus in these forums so far seems to indicate that you prefer the previous setup.  Di: obviously I agree with you- get all details before switching jobs.  I will try to get info from "bargaining unit", by which I believe you mean the union.  Thanks again, Droshen...........
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Laundry Man on Oct 09, 2008, 08:32
Which planet did you grow up on?

"which usually represents the will of the workers"
LM
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: SloGlo on Oct 09, 2008, 12:26
you might check the ca labor laws also, not sure but i believe if you work 7 consecutive days, the 7th day is a double time day. it was 2 years ago anyhow.

7th day wuz o.t. day 25yeers ago, much to c-e inc.s dismay, 'n still iz two day.....

   Q.   If an employee works unauthorized overtime is the employer obligated to pay for it?

   A.   

Yes, California law requires that employers pay overtime, whether authorized or not, at the rate of one and one-half times the employee's regular rate of pay for all hours worked in excess of eight up to an including 12 hours in any workday, and for the first eight hours of work on the seventh consecutive day of work in a workweek, and double the employee's regular rate of pay for all hours worked in excess of 12 in any workday and for all hours worked in excess of eight on the seventh consecutive day of work in a workweek.[/font]

http://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/FAQ_Overtime.htm
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Droshen on Oct 09, 2008, 01:13
LM:

I have not been involved with a union in in a really long time, so if you are insinuating that I am not knowledgeable when it comes to unions, you're right.  As I think about my union experience (Teamsters), not sure that I benefited much from being a member.  However, I know people that are longshore mechanics, and that's a different matter.  I think each union is different and should be judged on its own merit- apparently you give your union a very low score.  I am impressed with the hourly wage, but with the info I have so far on the schedule, I think to say it's bizarre is putting it charitably. 

SloGlo:

From what I see in the posts of Paulers and HydroDave, I get the impression the California "OT over six days" as well as the "OT over fourty hours" rules have been waived.   
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: SloGlo on Oct 09, 2008, 01:51


SloGlo:

From what I see in the posts of Paulers and HydroDave, I get the impression the California "OT over six days" as well as the "OT over fourty hours" rules have been waived.   

when i did songs weigh back when, we where tolled it was waived too, but da reason given for da waiver wuz dat we (my group of techs with combustion-engineering, inc) was from out of state (conneticut).  we didn't get all the o.t. deserved.  about a year later, a check came in the mail as the result of the law suit regarding dis stuff.  c-e had two pay.  unless ya kin show da legal basis for a waiver, complete wit url to a california government branch, eye wood knot believe it to be in existence. 
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Arkane on Oct 09, 2008, 03:47
the 'work week' begins/ends Sunday night at midnight. so they can schedule 7 consecutive days and still pay for a 40-hour work week, every week. days off are in the middle of the week. the only built-in OT is the 1.25 hrs/wk for the daily 15min turnover.

we are losing 100 hrs/yr built-in OT by switching to 8's..

g'luck w/ the knowledge exam!
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: SloGlo on Oct 09, 2008, 03:49
check yer state laws, aye yam pretty sure dat califurnia counts a 7 days inna row as 7 days inna row, regardless of watt day they start. 
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: dinutt on Oct 09, 2008, 06:11
 :D Slogo once again I believe your math is correct and it is 7 for 7 no matter which day of week off so with that Droshen thanks for admitting your not being familiar with the  union at this time and they are all different  try to get these answers so you can have some peace of mind and can accept this job (ifn tis is watt you want slo doe sit so much batter) .I hope they tell you everything you need to know and you can then share your info with others here on this thread.it has been enlightening.......I am familiar with this type of schedule and the roller coaster it has been........Best to you!! ;D
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Paulers on Oct 11, 2008, 05:14
Arkane is correct.  We do not recieve OT for working 7 days in a row.  Even though we work 7 in a row the "work week" Sunday thru Sunday contains only 5 working days.  There are weeks that have more days off so it works out to approx 40 hours a week plus 15 min a day OT for turnover.

Yes UWUA 246 used the Operators schedule as a bargining chip.  The union is attempting to negotiate a contract for all its members at SONGS.  That includes clerical, I&C, Test Techs, B&C etc...  Under our old agreement between the company and the union we were able to work 12 hr shifts with no O.T. for anything over 8.  CA law requires the labor group and company to agree to this.  Since contract negotiations were going nowhere the agreement was pulled by the union.  This has affected the work flow and hopefully will encourage the company to be generous with the new contract.  Meanwhile most of us would like our old schedule back - we miss our 7 offs - and we are encouraging the union to negotiate a contract so we can get back to that schedule or something like it.

I would encourage you to study all 800 pages of the Westrain material and take the knowledge test.  NLO rate is approx $34 an hour right now.  With a new contract it could be better.  Lots of new people in Ops so it is an interesting time.   Right now many SONGs operators have gone to/ or are seeking opportunities at other plants in areas with a lower cost of living.  At least working here will look good on a resume if you decide to go somewhere else.

When is your knowledge test?

Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Droshen on Oct 11, 2008, 02:25
Paulers:

I should have been given date for knowledge exam by now; things must not be normal in HR now.  I have had to slow down my study process because of things I had to take care of and hectic job.  I will admit that though I find the Westrain material interesting, it's tough going.   The induction process I'm in is for ANPEO: $27.50, if you advance it goes to $31.53, then Primary NPEO is $35.53 at current rates.  I'm not sure what you mean by NLO or OPs positions- I'll research that.  After looking at some the links in the excellent earlier posts of yeehaw, I can see that the different job classifications, the different levels that exist in each, and the upward or lateral movement options and rules are over the top compared to any job situation I've been in or seen.

Happy to hear that the new schedule may only be temporary.  That was my hunch.  I hope for your sake (and me if I'm fortunate enough to make it in) that the old one comes back.  For me personally, the "experimental" schedule was one of my motives for wanting the job. Thanks much for your input, Droshen.......
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Nuclear NASCAR on Oct 11, 2008, 05:11
Paulers:
....  I'm not sure what you mean by NLO or OPs positions- I'll research that.  A

NLO= Non-licensed operator
OPS= Operations department

What they're called varies by location but basically a NLO is the job you're hoping to be hired into.  The RO (Reactor Operator) operates the unit from the control room and the NLO is the RO's eyes & ears out in the plant.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on Oct 11, 2008, 08:29
Paulers:

 things must not be normal in HR now. 

  For me personally, the "experimental" schedule was one of my motives for wanting the job. Thanks much for your input, Droshen.......

And this should cause you some concern. Being a new hire with low seniority in an organization in disarray leaves one vulnerable. It isn't a leap of logic to see how going from 8s to 12s covers the same 24/7/365 schedule with fewer bodies, albeit the remaining bodies make more money. There was an Ops RIF about 2 years after the switch in the 90s. Your Mileage May Vary.

There are times where a bird in the hand really is worth 2 in the bush.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Paulers on Oct 12, 2008, 03:11

For me personally, the "experimental" schedule was one of my motives for wanting the job.

That schedule is how HR recruiters used to sell the job.  On nights like tonight I think I should become a plumber or something.  The obstacle that new hires have is the GFES training and exam that you must pass before any other training.  However you will spend a good 8-9 months with a M-F dayshift schedule during GFES and Secondary Systems.  By the time you come on shift things could be worked out.

Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Droshen on Oct 12, 2008, 11:04
Nuclear NASCAR:

Thanks.  OPS is combination of NLO's and RO's?

HydroDave:
The info I see at Working Aggreement Volume II  (http://www.uwua246.org/SONGS/index.asp) page 60, shows average work week consists of 41.4 hours/week actual hours worked.  I think the new schedule has about 42.5 hours/week (based on Pauler's outline in this thread).  It seems both schedules have about same average amount of time on the clock per week- just spread around differently.

Paulers:

Not sure I understand your post- ANPEO's do no "work" for a long time at first?  That's would be amazing to me and nice to see a company that invests so much in training its workers.

Thanks for info......

Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Droshen on Oct 12, 2008, 12:16
Paulers:

I see also in earlier post by yeehaw mention of 8 month training (and a test after 10 weeks)- apparently, this time is spent entirely in training.  I didn't quite grasp what he was saying.  You guys have been there for a while- to an outsider like me this much training is a new concept.

HydroDave:

Bird in hand concept relevant- 40% of workforce where I am now is below me in seniority.  Other side of coin: SONGS would be a better job.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Arkane on Oct 13, 2008, 03:49
I see also in earlier post by yeehaw mention of 8 month training (and a test after 10 weeks)- apparently, this time is spent entirely in training.  I didn't quite grasp what he was saying.

"7-8 months of classroom training" = 7-8 months of sitting in class Mon-Fri, 7-3:30pm, lecture after lecture, taking tests.  I know it sounds really abstract but don't get your head too wrapped up over it. ;) You won't actually be "working" in the plant until you get past all the classroom stuff.  And even then you will still be a 'trainee' for another 5-6 months (OT not available to trainees).  This is called On-The-Job Training (OJT) and you will be on rotating shifts.  So it will take at least 1 year until you are a fully trained and responsible operator.  Hopefully by that time operations should be back on 12s!  :-\

The hours worked per week on the new 8 hour schedule is exactly 41.25 hours (w/ no extra OT).  Which is slightly less "on the clock" hours than the old 12 hour schedule (avg 41.4 hrs/wk).  So both schedules have approx the same amount of "on the clock" hours but 100.1 hours of pay per year are lost due to the decreased amount of built-in overtime in the 8-hr schedule. >:(
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on Oct 13, 2008, 04:24
HydroDave:
 Other side of coin: SONGS would be a better job.

Get back to me after having to manually muck out Unit 2 screens and rakes, or some valve lineups on the BPS acidic wasteland ;) And yes, the raccoons on the switchyard tour DO bite!
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Paulers on Oct 13, 2008, 06:15
Droshen,

Yes it seems like they would value you after training you for a year.  Don't count on it.  It is just part of the Nuke Circus.  Only Qualified Operators can operate a nuke plant, I think all plants have similar training.  It takes months before you can touch anything in the plant.


 
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: guspi76 on Oct 16, 2008, 11:54
MM E-6 getting out after 12yrs. EAOS in Feb 22, '09 and stationed in San Diego. Looking to get into SONGS but haven't heard from them after posting my resume. Been talking with Orion international and they've been telling me that they can get me an interview stating in November. They recomend starting interviews within 90 days of EAOS. Just thought I'd put myself out there to see if somebody had some info on how to get into SONGS. Thanks, Gus
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: tr on Oct 16, 2008, 04:35
Try going to https://www2.sce.com/pljb/edison/careers/applicant/index.jsp and searching for jobs in San Clemente.  I'd reapply for any jobs you are interested in, even if you've already sent in a resume.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Paulers on Oct 29, 2008, 01:00
Didn't think I did too good on POSS but I did get a note saying I had passed.  Thanks for the help.  From what I understand, this means that I will be scheduled for knowledge test soon.   



When is your test?
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Droshen on Nov 05, 2008, 12:29
Paulers:

I recently was able to get thru to HR: they confirmed that I will be testing, but have not given date yet.  I will post when I find out.  As noted earlier, HR seems in chaos.  How is the implementation of the new schedule going?
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Paulers on Nov 06, 2008, 11:11
It is Rough - especially for license guys.  Lots of 4 hour holdovers and in earlys - well over one hundred forces in the past month but that should taper off after the outage is over.  Negotiations are at a crawl - who knows what is next?  Many are talking of a strike!
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Paulers on Nov 30, 2008, 04:56
 :-X still in an outage - still on 8s - still no contract ???
Title: Jobs at San Clemente
Post by: GSS on Feb 18, 2009, 07:52
Are there full time long term jobs at San Clemente other than what is listed on the Southern California Edison website?



Title: Re: Jobs at San Clemente
Post by: HydroDave63 on Feb 18, 2009, 08:14
You mean as far as in-house Edison employment, or long-term supplemental staffing?

p.s. it is a HIGH cost of living area if you aren't already there
Title: Re: Jobs at San Clemente
Post by: GSS on Feb 18, 2009, 08:28
You mean as far as in-house Edison employment, or long-term supplemental staffing?

p.s. it is a HIGH cost of living area if you aren't already there

Both, any long term work with benefits.  I own a home and currently work in the area.

I took testing for an apprentice position about 4yrs ago but did not get a response after taking the test.  I might not have done as well as I could have if I'd have studied more, or had some tutoring.  I'm older and my college education was many years ago.
Title: Re: Jobs at San Clemente
Post by: HydroDave63 on Feb 18, 2009, 08:36
Both, any long term work with benefits.  I own a home and currently work in the area.

I took testing for an apprentice position about 4yrs ago but did not get a response after taking the test.  I might not have done as well as I could have if I'd have studied more, or had some tutoring.  I'm older, 51, and my college education was many years ago.

If you are satisifed in your current work and it seems stable, I'd stay put for the time being. There are some things ongoing that might affect future staffing.
Title: Re: Jobs at San Clemente
Post by: GSS on Feb 18, 2009, 09:42
If you are satisifed in your current work and it seems stable, I'd stay put for the time being. There are some things ongoing that might affect future staffing.

Work is stable and I am in good standing there.   

But in regards to my original question.  Are there other jobs that are not so technical that are listed elsewhere?  Or is the Edison International site the only place to find jobs? 

And when you say "things ongoing", would that be to my benefit for waiting?

I would also be willing to take a less technical job as to get a foot into Edison at SONGS.  Are the only long term jobs with benifits availiable at the site I post below?:
http://www.edison.com/careers/default.asp
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS) Electrical Maintenance Coordinator
Post by: DSO on Feb 23, 2009, 08:51
Anyone have any experience seeing/experiencing/etc what the Senior Electrical Maintenance Coordinator's job is like at SONGS? I have been contacted as to my resume being routed up the chain.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS) Electrical Maintenance Coordinator
Post by: dirac on Feb 23, 2009, 11:47
Anyone have any experience seeing/experiencing/etc what the Senior Electrical Maintenance Coordinator's job is like at SONGS? I have been contacted as to my resume being routed up the chain.

SONGS is going through major management changes in an effort to get back to INPO 1. They are looking for people that can institute change and change the organizations mindset. There has been a lot of hiring from outside plants with proven track records as INPO 1. One of the areas that needs the most work is work control groups and work coordination. I imagine the job would have a lot of pressure to whip the organization into shape quickly but probably with high rewards also.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS) Electrical Maintenance Coordinator
Post by: DSO on Feb 24, 2009, 07:36
SONGS is going through major management changes in an effort to get back to INPO 1. They are looking for people that can institute change and change the organizations mindset. There has been a lot of hiring from outside plants with proven track records as INPO 1. One of the areas that needs the most work is work control groups and work coordination. I imagine the job would have a lot of pressure to whip the organization into shape quickly but probably with high rewards also.
Gotcha--thanks buddy.
Title: Bonuses and Relos packages for Maintenance Supervisors/Coordinators at SONGS?
Post by: DSO on Feb 24, 2009, 02:30
Anyone know if the Maintenance Supervisors/Coordinators at SONGS have bonus targets as a percentage of their salary? Also, what is the relo package like for these personnel-if applicable.  Thanx ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: tr on Feb 25, 2009, 04:34
Exempt and non-exempt non-union personnel have a results sharing program.  I'm not sure what the situation is for union personnel.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: DSO on Apr 07, 2009, 10:31
I see AO's in training start at $27.50hr and once fully qualified (12-18 mos) make about $35/hr, but cannot ascertain the changes in pay from when hired until your fully qualified from the contract. Anyone know the step increases between when hired and fully qualified--or do you just shoot up 7.50 hr all at once?
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Droshen on Apr 08, 2009, 05:04
Dear Paulers, yeehaw, arkane, and all:

After passing POSS test way back in Sept 2008, I never was scheduled for knowledge test.  I called HR several times to inquire about my status and was told that I would be testing at some point.   It appears there have been changes in induction process: just recently, I was asked to re-apply thru the new on-line application process so that I could test.  I was scheduled, took test, and was interviewed yesterday- all in short order.  In order to try to better understand steam concepts, I got steam table programs for my PC as well as my Palm OS PDA.  I wonder if others use such programs, and if so: is there a favorite program/device (Palm, calculator, or "pocket PC") combination?

Glad to see that contract is settled and you are back to "experimental" schedule or similar.  Now, I'll have a chance to study the details.  Much thanks for input, Droshen............... 

 
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Paulers on Apr 12, 2009, 12:09
Anyone know the step increases between when hired and fully qualified--or do you just shoot up 7.50 hr all at once?

I remember getting an increase on the first of the year (3 months after hiring in) because it was the beginning of the year.  Then there was a step increase at 6 months.  Now that ANPEOs go thru Generic Fundamentals first (as a condition of employment they must pass) they receive a 9% NRC bonus - I believe upon Completion.  The big step is upon qualification - about $5 an hour.  Look up the UWUA 246 website - I think the info is on there somewhere.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Fermi2 on Apr 12, 2009, 01:01
Dear Paulers, yeehaw, arkane, and all:

After passing POSS test way back in Sept 2008, I never was scheduled for knowledge test.  I called HR several times to inquire about my status and was told that I would be testing at some point.   It appears there have been changes in induction process: just recently, I was asked to re-apply thru the new on-line application process so that I could test.  I was scheduled, took test, and was interviewed yesterday- all in short order.  In order to try to better understand steam concepts, I got steam table programs for my PC as well as my Palm OS PDA.  I wonder if others use such programs, and if so: is there a favorite program/device (Palm, calculator, or "pocket PC") combination?

Glad to see that contract is settled and you are back to "experimental" schedule or similar.  Now, I'll have a chance to study the details.  Much thanks for input, Droshen............... 

 


Yeah I call it a Mollier Diagram.

Mike
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: jams723 on Apr 12, 2009, 09:43

Yeah I call it a Mollier Diagram.

Mike

Mollier Diagram... eeeyyyyeewww.. like with paper and no calculator/personal computer?   :D

Next you will be recomending doing math in your head or longhand!  What radical thoughts!
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Duke Nuker on Apr 12, 2009, 12:26
I learned with the Mollier 28 years ago and can still draw it (half a**ed) from memory.  I doubt I could do that if I just downloaded a program to my PDA.  Oh wait, my PDA back then was a 3x5 notebook.  Still fits in my pocket, too.  Amazingly the battery has never died just when I need the data the most.  ;-)
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: retired nuke on Apr 12, 2009, 01:29
  Oh wait, my PDA back then was a 3x5 notebook.  Still fits in my pocket, too.  Amazingly the battery has never died just when I need the data the most.  ;-)

My company just hands them out for free, my favorite is the blue one... ;)
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Fermi2 on Apr 12, 2009, 03:57
Mollier Diagram... eeeyyyyeewww.. like with paper and no calculator/personal computer?   :D

Next you will be recomending doing math in your head or longhand!  What radical thoughts!


LOL jams, I still do math longhand and in my head, and as you probably guessed as you know me quite well, I use a Mollier!

Mike
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: jams723 on Apr 13, 2009, 10:48

LOL jams, I still do math longhand and in my head, and as you probably guessed as you know me quite well, I use a Mollier!

Mike

Mike, I know where you are comming from. Of course now that I am no longer a demigod SRO I cannot even spell mollier.  Still trying to decide if my next career move is double knot spy or brain surgeon!

(How is that for getting totally off topic)
Title: San Onofre (SONGS) INPO rating
Post by: DSO on Apr 25, 2009, 09:09
Anyone know what SONGS' current INPO rating is and if there are any major problems at the plant??  INPO rated them a "3" in 2006.

Thanx
Title: Re: Bonuses and Relos packages for Maintenance Supervisors/Coordinators at SONGS?
Post by: HydroDave63 on Apr 25, 2009, 10:15
Anyone know if the Maintenance Supervisors/Coordinators at SONGS have bonus targets as a percentage of their salary? Also, what is the relo package like for these personnel-if applicable.  Thanx ;D ;D ;D

Speaking of wanting to be a maintenance coordinator, you might want to read through the NRC site on recent findings:

http://www.nrc.gov/NRR/OVERSIGHT/ASSESS/SANO3/sano3_pim.html#BI1st (http://www.nrc.gov/NRR/OVERSIGHT/ASSESS/SANO3/sano3_pim.html#BI1st)

and a White finding in

http://www.nrc.gov/NRR/OVERSIGHT/ASSESS/SANO2/sano2_pim.html#MS4th (http://www.nrc.gov/NRR/OVERSIGHT/ASSESS/SANO2/sano2_pim.html#MS4th)
Title: Re: Bonuses and Relos packages for Maintenance Supervisors/Coordinators at SONGS?
Post by: DSO on Apr 26, 2009, 07:08
Speaking of wanting to be a maintenance coordinator, you might want to read through the NRC site on recent findings:

http://www.nrc.gov/NRR/OVERSIGHT/ASSESS/SANO3/sano3_pim.html#BI1st (http://www.nrc.gov/NRR/OVERSIGHT/ASSESS/SANO3/sano3_pim.html#BI1st)

and a White finding in

http://www.nrc.gov/NRR/OVERSIGHT/ASSESS/SANO2/sano2_pim.html#MS4th (http://www.nrc.gov/NRR/OVERSIGHT/ASSESS/SANO2/sano2_pim.html#MS4th)
Whats a "white" finding??  Obviously it isnt good--Are you at SONGS??
Title: Re: Bonuses and Relos packages for Maintenance Supervisors/Coordinators at SONGS?
Post by: Nuclear NASCAR on Apr 26, 2009, 12:52
Whats a "white" finding??  Obviously it isnt good--Are you at SONGS??

Shamelessly copied from here: http://www.nrc.gov/reactors/operating/oversight/rop-description.html

A "green" coding indicates performance within an expected performance level in which the related cornerstone objectives are met; "white" indicates performance outside an expected range of nominal utility performance but related cornerstone objectives are still being met; "yellow" indicates related cornerstone objectives are being met, but with a minimal reduction in safety margin; and "red" indicates a significant reduction in safety margin in the area measured by that performance indicator. The performance indicators will be reported to the NRC on a quarterly basis by each utility. Following compilation and review by the NRC staff, the performance indicators will be posted on the NRC's web site.
Title: Re: Bonuses and Relos packages for Maintenance Supervisors/Coordinators at SONGS?
Post by: DSO on Apr 26, 2009, 08:26
Shamelessly copied from here: http://www.nrc.gov/reactors/operating/oversight/rop-description.html

A "green" coding indicates performance within an expected performance level in which the related cornerstone objectives are met; "white" indicates performance outside an expected range of nominal utility performance but related cornerstone objectives are still being met; "yellow" indicates related cornerstone objectives are being met, but with a minimal reduction in safety margin; and "red" indicates a significant reduction in safety margin in the area measured by that performance indicator. The performance indicators will be reported to the NRC on a quarterly basis by each utility. Following compilation and review by the NRC staff, the performance indicators will be posted on the NRC's web site.
Ahh OK NASCAR--A "WHITE " is kind of like a "C-" grade in school--thanx
Title: Re: San Onofre
Post by: jimdog99 on Apr 28, 2009, 11:44
ok.....who left the elephant trunk in the S/G before startup?!!?

I know who but will never tell...
Title: Re: San Onofre
Post by: HydroDave63 on Apr 29, 2009, 12:25
I know who but will never tell...

Heck, I'll even buy ya a pop if you know who ordered the wrong flex gaskets for the manway  :P
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on Apr 30, 2009, 01:12
Anyone goin to this?


NRC Still Concerned About San Onofre Nuclear Plant's Operations; Meeting Set
April 29, 2009 
 
The Nuclear Regulatory Commission staff will hold two meetings in Dana Point on May 7, to discuss the agency’s 2008 assessment of safety performance for the San Onofre Nuclear Generating Station (SONGS). The plant, operated by the Southern California Edison Co., is south of San Clemente.
The NRC staff will hold an informal open house between 4 and 6 p.m. during which they will be available to answer questions from the public on the safety performance of San Onofre, as well as the NRC’s role in ensuring safe plant operation

http://thecapistranodispatch.com/index.php?mact=News,cntnt01,detail,0&cntnt01articleid=973&cntnt01dateformat=%25B%20%25d%2C%20%25Y&cntnt01returnid=15 (http://thecapistranodispatch.com/index.php?mact=News,cntnt01,detail,0&cntnt01articleid=973&cntnt01dateformat=%25B%20%25d%2C%20%25Y&cntnt01returnid=15)
Title: Anyone Work at SONGS?
Post by: Benefit187 on May 05, 2009, 09:56
Hi, I was just wondering if anyone possibly knows any contact information for the hiring managers of operations at Southern California Edison. I applied for the Operator Apprentice position and I really want the job.

Also any advice for a newbie would be greatly appreciated. I've almost graduated with a Physics B.S. with no previous nuke experience. I've been pouring over all the advice in these forums for a while and it's been incredibly informative - you guys are great!

Thanks in advance
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: desertdog on May 06, 2009, 01:19
Anyone goin to this?


NRC Still Concerned About San Onofre Nuclear Plant's Operations; Meeting Set
April 29, 2009 
 
The Nuclear Regulatory Commission staff will hold two meetings in Dana Point on May 7, to discuss the agency’s 2008 assessment of safety performance for the San Onofre Nuclear Generating Station (SONGS). The plant, operated by the Southern California Edison Co., is south of San Clemente.
The NRC staff will hold an informal open house between 4 and 6 p.m. during which they will be available to answer questions from the public on the safety performance of San Onofre, as well as the NRC’s role in ensuring safe plant operation

http://thecapistranodispatch.com/index.php?mact=News,cntnt01,detail,0&cntnt01articleid=973&cntnt01dateformat=%25B%20%25d%2C%20%25Y&cntnt01returnid=15 (http://thecapistranodispatch.com/index.php?mact=News,cntnt01,detail,0&cntnt01articleid=973&cntnt01dateformat=%25B%20%25d%2C%20%25Y&cntnt01returnid=15)

I'm thinking about. Got some spair time here waiting for my next job and thinking about working the SGRs so I'd supposed it would be a good use of time.
Title: Re: Anyone Work at SONGS?
Post by: HydroDave63 on May 08, 2009, 05:16
Hi, I was just wondering if anyone possibly knows any contact information for the hiring managers of operations at Southern California Edison.

I'm quite sure, knowing them, that they would prefer you went through HR.
Title: San Onofre Hiring: Insight
Post by: jdpierce on May 13, 2009, 02:27
Hello all,

I would first like to thank the memebers and this website for giving me the help I needed to get through the interview at San Onofre confidently. 

I am wondering if anyone might have any insight whether they have filled the positions of aux operator or if they are still choosing.  I am excited for the opportunity to work at San Onofre and to help change its unfortunate reputation but classes start the beginning of June and have not been able to contact HR.

I appreciate any help, as I know you are all aware, waiting is the worst.

Thank you.

jdpierce
Title: San Onofre SGR looks great
Post by: Longtime Nuke on May 22, 2009, 10:53
Have you heard that the San Onofre SGR starts 9/27, goes 92+ days, and is paying $27/140?  Word is a 5x12 schedule in RP, lots of experienced SGR RPs been pumping out clean plans.  Even going to cut up and ship SGs after the outage meaning extended employment for many.  Bringing in well-known, respected road leads and supvs.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Already Gone on May 23, 2009, 02:31
Nice try.
$27/hr at SONGS, where you work 5x12 ( 5x11.5 after they deduct the half hour for lunch every day) comes out to $1788.75 per week.

A tech making $20.33 at any other outage will gross the same.

Long term work?  Are you really promising people the opportunity to stay at SONGS for even longer than the 92 day outage?  Are you suggesting that this work is somehow reserved for those who sign on for the outage, and that all the long-term techs leftover from the Unit 1 decommisioning aren't going to do it?  Are you intimating that the $140 per diem is going to stay at that rate during all those 40 hour weeks after the outage?

Or, is it more likely that the pay rate, and per diem, will return to the normal meager rate after the outage is over?
Is it also not more likely that this outage will have the customary HUGE layoff as soon as the S/G's are cut out?
What well-known, respected lead RP techs and supervisors are going to be there that will make it worth committing for 13 weeks of underemployment while there is more money to be made in fewer weeks elsewhere?

By the way, the GSA per diem rate for SONGS (which is just inside San Diego County) is $201.  That $140 still look as tasty?

Nothing has changed.  SONGS has not been, and is till not, a place where techs go to make money during outage season.  It was always a nice little "vacation" outage that just beat out unemployment during the off-season.  Considering that you hardly had to do any work, and there were no other outages happening, and SoCal weather is better than much of the country in January, the lack of monetary gain was never a hindrance to going there.
Hell, I'd go back there any January for $1 more than unemployment and just enough diem to cover my costs.  But give up a whole outage season on speculation that I'll get to stay longer than the people who have been there for decades?  Sorry, not a gamble worth taking.
Title: Re: San Onofre SGR looks great
Post by: HydroDave63 on May 23, 2009, 11:04
Have you heard that the San Onofre SGR starts 9/27, goes 92+ days, and is paying $27/140?  Word is a 5x12 schedule in RP, lots of experienced SGR RPs been pumping out clean plans.  Even going to cut up and ship SGs after the outage meaning extended employment for many.  Bringing in well-known, respected road leads and supvs.

That's a rhetorical question, right?  :P
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Longtime Nuke on May 24, 2009, 03:02
I am new here.  Not used to all that negativity, Beercourt.  Take it easy, friend.

San Onofre tells me there is no unpaid lunch.  And under the new NRC Work Rule 5x12 will be much more the norm in the future.  Check out the rule and how it applies to outages greater than 60 days.  RP "covered worker" hours are limited by law.

And the Unit 1 Decommisioning is done.  There are no long-termers left there.  Several gone to Humbolt Bay and back to Laguna Verde.

I like working SGRs.  There won't be many left.  This should be a good one.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on May 24, 2009, 06:36
  And under the new NRC Work Rule 5x12 will be much more the norm in the future.  Check out the rule and how it applies to outages greater than 60 days.  RP "covered worker" hours are limited by law.

Perhaps YOU should check out he rule...

http://www.nrc.gov/reactors/operator-licensing/op-licensing-files/fatigue-rule-update.pdf (http://www.nrc.gov/reactors/operator-licensing/op-licensing-files/fatigue-rule-update.pdf)

SGR outage RPs don't have ERO duties, so the Rule doesn't apply to them.

p.s. If you think BeerCourt presenting facts (based on experience) is somehow negative (which it ain't)... you may have a hard time adjusting to SONGS or NukeWorker. Then again, you might be refreshed by the cool ocean breezes and view of the plant, while waiting 45 mins at the ICE vehicle checkpoint!   :o
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Fermi2 on May 24, 2009, 06:54
Normally I'm not into the Quatlooing but I'm betting ALL my quatloos on BeerCourt!

Mike
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on May 24, 2009, 08:41
And just who, pray tell, would take the other side of the bet? Maybe Longtime will have some quatloos saved up after the SGR at Humboldt  :P
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Already Gone on May 26, 2009, 01:44
I'm not being negative so much as being skeptical.
Your "question" comes off as being very salesmanlike.  You are selling something.  I, in response to your sales pitch, am introducing a little caveat emptor into the discussion.

You might think 5-12's is the coming norm, but you haven't considered that a HUUUUUGE number of contract RP's are going to get sucked into DOE projects that are being funded by all that new stimulus money.  It is impractical to believe that the depleted number of techs will be able to cover the outage schedule on reduced hours.

You are also neglecting that only ONE RP tech per site is required to have ERO duties.  Since this ONE tech can change every week, day or shift, there is no need to limit the hours of the rest. This is, was, and will be no more than an excuse to limit overtime costs, but when it starts to affect outage lengths, it will be whisked away.  Yeah, I know SONGS does not care a whit about outage length, but the other sites do, and they will be offering maximum overtime to get their outages over quickly.  You think you can compete with that by offering somebody 40 hours a week on a project that will spillover into the next outage season?  No way.

Yes, there are long-termers at SONGS.  They use them to augment the house staff.

The cutting up of the old S/G's will either be done very quickly with a bunch of people or it will be done very slowly with very few people.  My guess is the latter with no overtime, non-outage per diem rates, and non-outage pay rates.  I'll bet those slots have already been promised to all those "super-techs" who are there "pumping out clean plans".  If they turn them down, what does that say?

No SGR ever finishes with the same number of RP's that are there at the beginning.  At least half will commit their entire outage season to this one job only to be laid off as quickly as they would at any normal outage - but with nothing lined up and no notice, leaving them to scramble to another outage where the local hotels and campgrounds were all taken by those folks who knew in advance where they would be going.
Nice that they won't be deducting the half hour for lunch, but that still makes the weekly gross pay $1890 - still far less than you could be making elsewhere at a lower pay rate.  You also make no mention of the campground on the Mesa.  Will this be available to the techs, or will they get kicked out again to make room for all the Bechtel employees?  Any local hotels offering outage deals?  If so, let's hear about them.

Look, I don't have any problem with the idea of people going to SONGS for an SGR.  Just don't bait the hook with a bunch of promises that will not be kept.  Only a few of the people who are going will be there beyond the first half of the project.  Those people are already going there without any coaxing from you.  The rest - the ones you are trying to recruit - will get laid-off and have to secure work elsewhere.  So, instead of promising them the things that you are not going to give them, why don't you be upfront and tell them the truth.

It goes something like this:
Hey, SONGS is having an SGR outage this fall.  Many of the techs will be there for the entire outage season, but we need many more to support the S/G removal.  This will be a short-term assignment, but there will be many follow-up outages in need of your help - especially considering that quite a few of your colleagues will be tied up for the remainder of the SONGS SGR.  Why don't you call today and secure your spot, and we can discuss where you will go from there.  Thanks, Your Friendly Bartlett Recruiter.

You see how that works?  You are not making any promises you can't keep.  You are not asking anyone to gamble.  Nobody will get disappointed by such an offer.  Who knows, some folks who take you up on it just might not even want to go there if they think they are going to have to stay for the whole thing, but will go for a short while.

The RP techs are not stupid.  They know the truth from a lie, and you can tell if you read this site at any length that a lie is about the worst offense you can commit in this business.  Lots of people will go to SONGS for the short-term and leave early quite happily for another outage.  But they will MF you until the end of time if you promise them long-term when you don't mean it.  By implying long-term work you are promising it to EVERYONE who responds.  Unless you intend to keep everyone to the bitter end, you are being dishonest when you dangle this carrot.  You are, in fact, making the biggest mistake you can make.  Just be honest.  Ask for what you need, and give some real consideration in return.  You will be a superstar.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on May 26, 2009, 01:51
Awesome!
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: LOKI RAD on May 26, 2009, 04:56
Tell the "Truth", deal with it and move on.

I agree! 8)
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Longtime Nuke on Jun 01, 2009, 12:26
I hope you turn out be right, but I think you will find the Work Rule impact much broader than described.  For RP, minimum ERO staff are "covered workers" and must adhere to work hour limitations.  Minimum ERO staff used to be as low as 1 tech per reactor, but that has changed at most plants.  Plants (many) that have gone to 90 minute recall staff, for instance, have far larger ERO minimums.  Paol Verde, for instance, has ERO min RP of 9.

Consider the impact.  In order to have 9 RP techs on site at all times that are work-hour limited in a long outage, you may need to put 20 techs per shift on limited hours.  With days off and potential call-ins, that is needed to ensure 9 elegible show up.  Some plants will have to put everybody on limited hours to avaoid disparate treatment complaints.  PV is considering drastic outage staffing and scheduling changes to comply....as are many other plants.  Have you seen Jerry Hiat's presentation on this subject? 

My San Onofre contact tells me Camp Mesa has been expanded for the SGR to almost 400 sites and will be open all outage workers...including RPs, especially those with SGR experience.

best,

J

Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: MeterSwangin on Jun 01, 2009, 01:17
I know of two other plants treating this thing that way.  All RPs will work fewer outage hours to keep everybody away from the reg. limits and not create union complaints.  Therefore need more RPs...talking to USA plants about more loanees.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: RDTroja on Jun 02, 2009, 12:10
I know of two other plants treating this thing that way.  All RPs will work fewer outage hours to keep everybody away from the reg. limits and not create union complaints.  Therefore need more RPs...talking to USA plants about more loanees.

I think this is going to be the big kicker for any effect the rule has on contract HPs... if the union techs can't work the hours, neither can the contractors. And if one union tech can't work the hours, neither can the others. It will cause some problems for awhile, but then I think things will get ironed out. It will be interesting to watch the dance as each utility watches what the others are doing to see what they are trying to get away with.

The bottom line is... well, the bottom line. Once it starts to affect outage duration, the utilities will find a way to get around the limits.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: DSO on Jul 27, 2009, 01:58
Anyone have the scoop on the open Nuclear Electrician job at San Onofre--ie --starting pay for 20 yr Nuke EM?? Ending pay==scheduled hrs, Overtime? Iknow its local 246

Thanx
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: MeterSwangin on Jul 27, 2009, 10:01
Minimum wage...?  Over $30/hr, full bennies, beaucoup OT.  Duuuuuuude.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on Jul 29, 2009, 12:03
$30/hour is minimum wage in SD and Orange counties.

Will $30/hour get me a 650 sq.ft. place just a short walk to either a pawn shop, tattoo parlor, payday loan shack AND the beach, all within a short commute to SONGS?!¿ (http://homes.nctimes.com/RealEstate/Rentals/Listing.asp?lid=2130-936%20S.%20Pacific%20St.&em=leslie@carlsbadproperties.com) I can live a reality-show lifestyle AND get a license...where do I sign up?  :P
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: MeterSwangin on Jul 29, 2009, 12:23
Good news, Amigo:  Republinomics has so depressed the economy that $30/hr can feed and house the average Nuke.  Thank you George W.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Brett LaVigne on Jul 29, 2009, 05:02
$30/hr x 40hr/wk = $1200

Less taxes, union dues, 401K contributions, etc. that leaves you with about $780.  Subtract housing and fuel costs so you can commute from Temecula where you may be able to rent an apartment in a gang banger neighborhood for $1200/month and you are left with about $380/wk.  Now pay for food, car insurance etc, and you are in the hole.



This sounds like my last outage at SONGS. 7 weeks and left in the red, thank goodness the next stop was halfway up the coast where I made the same amount in 3 weeks.

$1200/month is a jammin deal if you can take the commute turning it into a 15 hour day. I chose to stay in a 550 sq ft apartment in San Clemente for a smokin' good deal of $2000/month.

Living in SO CAL and working at SONGS is literally a difference of less than $300/week from staying home and collecting unemployment for me. Wish I had done the math on that before I did the outage.

Considering the math and the knowledge of how poorly they run their outages (at least from my experience on the RP side of things), I don't know why anyone would pick 10 weeks at this plant if a 6 week outage is available anywhere else for even somewhat less pay. Management at this plant still believes that we can pay our bills with sunshine. The statement "but we have the sun and the beach" is an old one and some used to be ok with a little less $ to be at SONGS, but that was a time when it was still profitable to work there even with the higher cost of living. Now it's all different. The cost of living in that area has outrun any wage/perdiem increases by a larger margin than me trying to race Lance Armstrong, and I'm riding a tricycle (like the type of bike would make any difference).

While at Diablo I talked to a couple of SONGS folks that were there benchmarking (like anyone is going to listen to suggestions that come from another plant). We talked about the SONGS sgr staffing and I explained that I would not be there (as many others did as well). When we talked about the pay, they actually said it..."but we have the sunshine". I like both of these guys, and like them no less for saying that because they have been stuck in the ignorant thinking bubble for a long time, it wasn't their fault. But on the other hand, I found it to be an incredibly offensive statement. It demonstrated how far removed the staff there is from the rest of the world. They still think that they are at the top of the game in spite of the INPO decline over the past years and building one of the worst reputations in the industry amongst the RP types. It's weired how arguably the best shares the same water and coast with arguably the worst. You'd think that one might take lessons from the other, at least I wish they would.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: xobxdoc on Jul 29, 2009, 06:05
I bet you had a good time though. My best memories as an HP were at SONGS in the 80's. I left with enough money to get to my next job each time I worked there. Looking back it probably wasn't the smartest thing financially, but I had a pretty good time.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: go.nukes on Jul 30, 2009, 01:11
I worked there a couple of years ago and barely broke even. It was fun seeing the area on my time off but not enough so that I'd go back unless the rates increase. I was treated well by the house techs which is more than I can say for our Assistant Site Coordinator. Same goes for the Site Coordinator. Does that loser even come inside the gate.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Brett LaVigne on Jul 30, 2009, 07:34
I bet you had a good time though. My best memories as an HP were at SONGS in the 80's. I left with enough money to get to my next job each time I worked there. Looking back it probably wasn't the smartest thing financially, but I had a pretty good time.

I had a pretty good time from 94 - 97, and could actually pay the rent. I was young, single, no kids, no mortgage in Michigan (just a little rent). It was much much cheaper to rent a place in San Clemente.

2006 and 2007 were not such a good time. For the first time in my RP career, I left a site after working a full outage with less money than I had when I got there. No one at work was having any fun due to being streched too thin and having a total lack of 1st line leadership (with the occasional exception of Mack filling in for a day off).

I went back after 10 years thinking I was going to re-kindle my love for the plant and area. It was no fun to work and there were so many people in the area that sometimes I had to park 3 blocks from where I lived (that's what $2000/month will get you). I learned that the SONGS party has been over for quite some time IMO. I get along fine with the management there, including the Bartlett management. I actually like many of them on a personal level, but they are living in the past.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: MeterSwangin on Jul 30, 2009, 10:10
The usual road ho anthem:  the low payer sucks, high payer rocks, and nobody at the House knows or does doodah.

Come on.  Get real.

SONGS is paying 27/140....you bust $32 on night with NRRPT.  Free trailer park with hookups, laundry, gym.  5x12, paid lunch.  Bartlett supes....heard maybe marty, gooch, wood, mason, hatch.

Diablo was obscene bux, although I got sick, too much dose, crappy radworker practices, SGT amok.  Some turds in charge.

Be fair...
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: MeterSwangin on Aug 02, 2009, 07:07
I got bros trying to get it to SONGS for the SGR...can't.  Fully staffed.

Road hos love to beat down the plants, but in the end vote with their feet. 
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Brett LaVigne on Aug 04, 2009, 12:35
The usual road ho anthem:  the low payer sucks, high payer rocks, and nobody at the House knows or does doodah.

Come on.  Get real.

SONGS is paying 27/140....you bust $32 on night with NRRPT.  Free trailer park with hookups, laundry, gym.  5x12, paid lunch.  Bartlett supes....heard maybe marty, gooch, wood, mason, hatch.

Diablo was obscene bux, although I got sick, too much dose, crappy radworker practices, SGT amok.  Some turds in charge.

Be fair...

Here is fair. $35/hour, Fed. Per-diem and getting paid 12 for 12. Nothing less would be fair for southern California. SONGS still pays less than several plants and when you consider the cost of living there, $27/$140 is the equivalent of minimum wage for a road tech. Why are you trying to continue to sell us a lemon if the outage is all staffed up? Just kick back, enjoy your outage and come back to rub our noses in it when you pull off the best SGR in industry history. In the meantime, I'll be working waaaaay up north of you at entry level house RP wages and fed. per-diem bringing home more than $500/week more on 40's than the techs working SONGS on 60's, or I mean 57.5's.

Diablo doesn't rock just because of the pay, they rock because they get the pick of the litter due to paying a top road wage. Your co-workers can be counted on to be knowledgeable and willing to do that little extra that ensures success. The leadership in the field is better than most but more importantly, they trust us to take care of business and stay out of our way for the most part. The plant is low dose and very clean. Add all that up with the fact that they pay nearly double what SONGS does...what is there to argue about? And the little PG&E plant even more north, even more better.

"Diablo was obscene bux, although I got sick, too much dose, crappy radworker practices, SGT amok.  Some turds in charge."

Wow! Too much dose? The last time I was at SONGS, on my last day I worked in the pump bays and did the underwater AMP100/200 survey of the lower cavity. I picked up over 50 millirem and was pushed through the bodycounter by noon. At least I got like 1 hour of pay to bodycount, which was good since it took longer than that to get out of the plant. Dose, crappy radworker practices and some turds in charge!? Sounds like SONGS for twice the money and better treatment, count me in! Every plant I have worked has challenges, including Diablo. Facing these challenges when you are treated properly by the house makes it far less frustrating! It also makes people want to face and resolve these challenges to make it an even better place to work. At a plant where they just abuse you, who really cares if it gets better for the future? Even if it turns into a great place to work, you'll still starve to be there.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Brett LaVigne on Aug 04, 2009, 07:02
Brett - you nailed it!  MS does not get it or is simply being argumentative.  The time has come for sensible folks to stop taking the bait.

MS is a SONGS guy trying to sell the idea that it is still sunny in San Clemente and SONGS is THE place to work. MS has been there a long time and isn't in touch with the rest of the industry. I am pretty sure that I know who MS is, at least I'm down to 2 or 3 choices. If he is who I am thinking, I happen to like this guy. He's just a bit uninformed.

On the other hand. I think it's great that MS is promoting his plant, that's what he should be doing. He just needs to be better informed about the rest of the industry and realize that the deal he is promoting is not a good deal. He should promote it as a work in progress.

It should go something like this...

Hey guys, we are having a SGR at SONGS this fall. I know we have had a long history of low pay for travel techs but there is good news. We have upped the pay and perdiem to better align ourselves with the rest of the industry and make it a bit easier to afford a decent place to stay. I know that the money is still not exactally where it should be, but it's a good first step and I am sure that the future looks bright. We have also made some changes to our management structure and that will help our outages going forward. Take this opportunity to work our SGR and become a frequent returnee for our ride back up to the top of the industry.

I don't know if all of that is true, but at least it seems honest. You know right from the start that I am trying to sell the idea of working at SONGS and I freely admit that it ain't perfect yet. The way MS promotes the plant feels insulting, like we are not smart enough to know better. I am sure it is unintentional, but knock it off just the same.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: fueldryer on Aug 04, 2009, 07:59
MS is a SONGS guy trying to sell the idea that it is still sunny in San Clemente and SONGS is THE place to work. MS has been there a long time and isn't in touch with the rest of the industry. I am pretty sure that I know who MS is, at least I'm down to 2 or 3 choices. If he is who I am thinking, I happen to like this guy. He's just a bit uninformed.

On the other hand. I think it's great that MS is promoting his plant, that's what he should be doing. He just needs to be better informed about the rest of the industry and realize that the deal he is promoting is not a good deal. He should promote it as a work in progress.

It should go something like this...

Hey guys, we are having a SGR at SONGS this fall. I know we have had a long history of low pay for travel techs but there is good news. We have upped the pay and perdiem to better align ourselves with the rest of the industry and make it a bit easier to afford a decent place to stay. I know that the money is still not exactally where it should be, but it's a good first step and I am sure that the future looks bright. We have also made some changes to our management structure and that will help our outages going forward. Take this opportunity to work our SGR and become a frequent returnee for our ride back up to the top of the industry.

I don't know if all of that is true, but at least it seems honest. You know right from the start that I am trying to sell the idea of working at SONGS and I freely admit that it ain't perfect yet. The way MS promotes the plant feels insulting, like we are not smart enough to know better. I am sure it is unintentional, but knock it off just the same.
You guys are boring at best.If you don't like SONGS, DON't GO! Geez quit your belly aching and go somewhere else.I move fuel there and like the people, the area and the money I make is great.I'd rather work with a tech that doesn't whine...
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Longtime Nuke on Aug 04, 2009, 09:38
Gets a little old reading about a plant from guys who haven't been there in years.

Diablo is NOT a low source-term plant, Brett.  Their SGRs both ran well over 200 Person-REM.  PVNGS is low source term...all three SGRs ran well under 100 PR each.

You obviously have not been to SONGS in many years, and should chill accordingly.  Good people, nice area, rapidly improving plant.  Their SGR, although much longer than any of Diablo's, is bid at nearly half the dose. 

I agree with the last posters.  Have fun on this list debating places and issues.  But ldump the nasty personal attacks and digs at plants you don't know.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: fueldryer on Aug 05, 2009, 11:36
I think Brett has been at SONGS fairly recently, I know I have.  It is by raising the issues of substandard PD & wages (along with many other issues) that you and others may reap the benefits of a "rapidly improving plant" although INPO, road and house employees, the public, and the NRC may disagree with that.


If you don't like the plant,pay scale,P.D.,the people or the area,by all means do go there.Why be miserable and piss and moan thus making the other people that have to work with you miserable too.I know that I don't want to work with people like that.I enjoy going to SONGs and enjoy working with the tech's that cover me.I never heard any of them bitching about the money they make.And I don't think by you or any other tech complaining is gonna change anything......except maybe the crew list's of who's going there.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Brett LaVigne on Aug 05, 2009, 12:06
Gets a little old reading about a plant from guys who haven't been there in years.

Diablo is NOT a low source-term plant, Brett.  Their SGRs both ran well over 200 Person-REM.  PVNGS is low source term...all three SGRs ran well under 100 PR each.

You obviously have not been to SONGS in many years, and should chill accordingly.  Good people, nice area, rapidly improving plant.  Their SGR, although much longer than any of Diablo's, is bid at nearly half the dose. 

I agree with the last posters.  Have fun on this list debating places and issues.  But ldump the nasty personal attacks and digs at plants you don't know.

Been to SONGS twice in the last couple of years FYI and many times through the 90's. Diablo for both SGR's and a refuel in the past couple of years. Still getting a little old? I don't argue about things I know nothing of.

I argue against SONGS because someone is on here trying to sell it as a good deal for RP types and it is not. As far as Diablo goes, the average dose rates I/S bio on 91' (loops) is like 8 - 10 mr/hr and you could wear street clothes almost anywhere and not get contaminated. You can compare it to Palo Verde and call it hot if you like, but many plants would look hot compared to Palo (been there recently as well by the way) If you think Diablo is not a low source term plant then I am thinking that you haven't been there in a while. It is one of the cleanest plants I have worked in a while. The SGR's are not a good outage to look at for comparison, we (RP) were basically uninvolved with SGT during the SGR part of the outage. They took over and we stayed out of the way. So what you end up with is dozens of SGT workers standing around all shift soaking up dose and no way to curtail it by sending uninvolved people out. I could also compare it to a plant like Cooper where we did a 3 week refuel outage and spent nearly 50 man-rem more than Diablo's SGR outage that took 4 times as long. It's all in your comparisons, I can paint what ever picture you like if I pick the right plant to make the comparison. SONGS by the way, is near the bottom of the list where dose v.s. outage scope is concerned. Far worse than Diablo and the management talked about this frequently last time I was there (sign of a plant that wants to improve by the way).

If you would have paid attention to my last post I offered a different approach to selling the idea that SONGS was improving, and it is improving. If you have followed Meterswangins posts on this thread and the NPUA thread, you would realize that he is trying to say that we get what we deserve and shouldn't complain. He is a management type at SONGS trying to get his outage staffed by painting a fairytail that does not exist. I feel that it is my fellow nukeworker DUTY to let my fellow techs know that what he is selling is a misrepresentation of the facts.

You move fuel...most of what has been talked about here is related to RP's, at least the most recent activity. If you make a good living there and like it, good for you. Don't assume that because you have it good there, everyone must have it good there. It is time to call these utilities out for what they really are. SONGS has a long tradtion of underpaying and mistreating travel RP techs and I will talk about it as much as I can when someone gets on a public forum like this one and trys to sell something different. I owe it to my co-workers.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Brett LaVigne on Aug 05, 2009, 12:15
If you don't like the plant,pay scale,P.D.,the people or the area,by all means do go there.Why be miserable and piss and moan thus making the other people that have to work with you miserable too.I know that I don't want to work with people like that.I enjoy going to SONGs and enjoy working with the tech's that cover me.I never heard any of them bitching about the money they make.And I don't think by you or any other tech complaining is gonna change anything......except maybe the crew list's of who's going there.

By the way, once I accept a job, most all the bitching stops. If you have ever worked with me at SONGS or other, you would know that I don't mope around work bitching about the pay and treatment. Even at the plants that I don't like to work, I have a very good time at work. I love what I do and you would find me to be a positive person.

I have decided not to work at SONGS anymore until they get us taken care of. If we never say anything, this plant would be happy to pay 1992 wages. Talking about it with co-workers does have an impact. Ask any RP on the road what they think of SONGS even if they haven't been there and you will probably hear alot of the same as on here. That reputation keeps good workers from going there and that has a huge impact on the staffing. It also encourages (or forces) a positive change. Think what you like, but I believe that we must be relentless to force change. Otherwise, it all stays the same or gets worse. For those of us who liked working SONGS in the past, this is unacceptable.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Chimera on Aug 06, 2009, 12:13
I have enjoyed every outage I've done at SONGS from 1982 to 2006.  The pay and perdiem have been acceptable (or I wouldn't have gone in the first place) and the house people are great to work with.  That area of California is one of my favorites - perhaps because I used to live there.  My only complaint is that it is in California.  Unitl California straightens out their political and taxation situation, I have no desire to go back there.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Longtime Nuke on Aug 06, 2009, 12:24
Apparently opinions are unwelcome here, judging from Hostile Brett's posts.

But screw that, I have several:

SONGS and Diablo both rock.  I prefer PVNGS for many reasons, but enjoy the people and work at all three.  I was at SONGS last year, and agree that anybody who has not been there recently knows nada.

Diablo is clean, but toasty.  Hostile Dude no habla radiation vs. contamination.  SONGS is now low dose, low contam.  PVNGS is like an oil burner...

Finally, why would anybody try to sell SONGS to get an outage staffed on this little forum?  Call Bartlett Dr. Nasty....SONGS IS staffed.  Crystal River too....go bash them for a while.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Brett LaVigne on Aug 06, 2009, 12:34


SONGS and Diablo both rock.  I prefer PVNGS for many reasons, but enjoy the people and work at all three. 

Prefer Palo to Diablo...ok if half paychecks are acceptable, personal choice.


Diablo is clean, but toasty.  Hostile Dude no habla radiation vs. contamination.  SONGS is now low dose, low contam.  PVNGS is like an oil burner...

You mean there's a difference?! And to think that all this time...
Diablo has the hottest heads in the industry but below the hard deck it is every bit as cool as Palo. But again, plant source term at Diablo and the fact that after 20 years I still don't know the difference between contam. and rad. has nothing to do with SONGS. Kind of a cheap shot dude, but hey, I can take it. I mean, you prefer half paychecks and surface of the sun temperatures out in the dusty desert at a INPO 4 plant. How credible can you be? Come on, I had to jab ya a little, my eye is still bruised! ;D

Finally, why would anybody try to sell SONGS to get an outage staffed on this little forum?  Call Bartlett Dr. Nasty....SONGS IS staffed.  Crystal River too....go bash them for a while.

I have no beef with Crystal River. You are missing the point of my rant. I don't bash for the sake of bashing. I have worked many many plants over the years and 99% of the time I have had a good experience. Also know that there are a lot of people at SONGS that I like and get along with very well. But when I was approached at Diablo by SONGS management trying to recruit for their SGR outage a couple months ago, I explained that the money needed to be better to get people to go. The response was "But we have the sun" and "we have the beach". That is no joke! I heard that statement come out of the RPM at SONGS 14 years ago and they are still using it today. I find that insulting and you should too.

So call me Bitter, table for one. Or hostile, or take shots at my RP abilities, what ever. If that makes you feel like you are making a point or discrediting me in front of my peers, knock yourself out, I don't care. Even a guy who doesn't know a smear from a dose rate can probably do the math on this plant and figure out that it isn't a great deal and you'll make more at almost any other plant.

The SGR's happening during a busy fall was a golden opportunity to apply pressure and maybe close the HUGE gap between contractor and house wages. But as long as techs are ok with low wages and staffing with large amounts of non-American workers because compared to Mexico, they are all ok with the money, it will never change.
Title: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Longtime Nuke on Aug 08, 2009, 07:52
  She simply is filling a slot mandated by the op license.  The real work is done by travelers just like the real work on the wrench side of the house is done by Bechtel craft.


Ahhh...there it is.  Now you are back on-topic.

The ever-familiar "house mice don't know/do doodah."  Brave, handsome road warriors singlehandedly powering the planet while utility losers flick boogers around the break room.  Nuclear Saviors deserving of truckloads of tax free cash, while actually underpaid, unappreciated, abused and neglected.

Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Longtime Nuke on Aug 20, 2009, 09:19
Makes me glad I never worked in the shipyards...

IMHO, what desertdog described is a case of underqualified and unconfident house RP supervisors making decisions out of fear of being wrong or second guessed by totalitarian management.  Experienced travelers at SONGS have two choices - mindlessly obey, or as you put it, "get used to it."  It is their show afterall.


The only situations that I recall ever coming close to what is happening at SONGS now was Lucie in the mid-80's, CCNPP in the late 80's, and HB in the early 80's.

Don't criticize RP supervisors for the jihad on PCEs.  That has been driven VERY HARD from Atlanta.  Thank Davis Besse.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on Aug 20, 2009, 10:33
To protect against an imaginary hazard?  I do not think they can apply enough pressure to justify that!

SONGS also has some unique history that might be adding to the tail-chasing...  http://www.howarth-smith.com/News/news-68.htm (http://www.howarth-smith.com/News/news-68.htm)
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Longtime Nuke on Aug 21, 2009, 09:28
SONGS also has some unique history that might be adding to the tail-chasing...  http://www.howarth-smith.com/News/news-68.htm (http://www.howarth-smith.com/News/news-68.htm)

These lawsuits were abandoned in 1997....over 12 years ago.  The "victims" never won.  SONGS RP long ago moved on.

I was at Comanche where we had a GREAT SGR.  Super results.  Wore scrubs almost everywhere in the can, so had numerous meaningless PCEs...over 100, I think.  Next thing you know...INPO AFI for failure to control contamination.  Major repercussions.

It is not RP supes who deserve the disdain here...at SONGS or anywhere else.  A bad call here or there is not unusual, but look to the regulator/INPO for the reasons for why plants over post-label-dress-lock-shield (pick any.).
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Longtime Nuke on Aug 22, 2009, 08:18
You have any mode other than derisive argumentativeness?  Must be a hoot to work with.  Best of luck with the union steward gig.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on Aug 22, 2009, 09:15
You have any mode other than derisive argumentativeness?  Must be a hoot to work with.  Best of luck with the union steward gig.

Fall below that 7 mg/cm2 skin threshold much?

On-topic: One of the first of those suits settled out of court with a check. http://www.howarth-smith.com/News/news-19.htm (http://www.howarth-smith.com/News/news-19.htm)
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: MeterSwangin on Aug 23, 2009, 07:28
I am very familiar with this.  Some of my surveys were subpoenaed as evidence.  Sorry, even this baseless suit can not justify the directives issued as described.

SONGS has a solid RP program now which contains virtually no residue from the hot particle problems of the 1980s or the B.S. lawsuits of the 1990s.

And I don't know what you are talking about with this PerCon nonsense.  SONGS went from 250-some PerCons a few outages ago to 43 last outage.  Standard good-program stuff...worker behavior improvements, decon, new clean PCs, etc.  No rocket science, no nutty plastics and respirators overreaction.  No silly "directives."  stop making stuff up.

Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: MeterSwangin on Aug 25, 2009, 12:29
It is very clear MS that you do not take knocks against the home plant well.  That is understandable. Heck, I still defended the Giants against slams from Dodger fans when the Giants were on their way to a 100-loss season.

I will try not to antagonize you again by pointing out shortcomings at SONGS.  But, I do not make this stuff up as you implied.  I have worked many outages at SONGS, although I admit the last one was back in '07.  I have seen the RP program in action first hand, up close, and very personal.

I am not alone either.  I do not believe desertdog was making stuff up when on 03/17/08 he wrote in reference to SONGS (by the way, there is no mention of a respirator):

“Secondly and just as importantly, how much money and DOSE are we spending to limit these PCE's?  At a plant last fall (that myself and some others affectionately refer to as "The Bad Place") supervisors were having us send crews into RCP shrouds that were <10 K dpm/100cm2  wearing PC's, plastics, and faceshields to do routine fit up work.  Another supervisor in the Rad Waste Bldg was sending crews into areas with no smears > 1K dpm/100cm2 in double PC's to prevent any possible chance of the big bad PCE.
While I agree we don't want unnecessary contams and we definitely need to make a fuss about uptakes,  making a big deal about minor ones that come about due to doing real work in a nuclear plant does more harm than any perceived good.”

I understand SONGS is improving, and that is a good thing.  This industry needs all sites to operate at their full potential.  But it is not healthy to live in denial.





It was good of you clarify that the bad stuff you cited did not happen at SONGS.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: desertdog on Aug 25, 2009, 11:32

It was good of you clarify that the bad stuff you cited did not happen at SONGS.

I'm not sure how you gleaned that from Mutant's response. I suppose it goes with strong tendencies of denial when faced with a situation of which you are uncomfortable with confronting honestly. I would think this tendency would need to be turned around so that the plant could improve in performance to deserve a higher rating.  I wish you good luck in this endeavor.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: RDTroja on Aug 26, 2009, 09:22
IMO, there may be a few explanations for the string of responses by MS when faced with the truth about SONGS:
MS would make a great Cub fan.

Now that's funny. (Sorry, Marlin.)
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Brett LaVigne on Aug 26, 2009, 04:24
I'm not sure how you gleaned that from Mutant's response. I suppose it goes with strong tendencies of denial when faced with a situation of which you are uncomfortable with confronting honestly. I would think this tendency would need to be turned around so that the plant could improve in performance to deserve a higher rating.  I wish you good luck in this endeavor.

Exactally! Your a wordsmith dd ;D

One of the biggest challenges SONGS has had is that they believe THEY are the ones with it all figured out. Their arrogance has always been amazing! Yet they slip farther and farter down. Step one: Admit you have a problem and need help.

I have been to little ole boilers down south and in the mid-west basically run by local farmers converted to nuke workers or doing each part time. Their RP programs would make SONGS green with envy if they had any sense about them. Nope, were doing it right and everyone else is wrong.

I hear they are getting better and that is great, I look forward to opinions about how the SGR went.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: MeterSwangin on Aug 26, 2009, 09:28
One of the biggest challenges SONGS has had is that they believe THEY are the ones with it all figured out. Their arrogance has always been amazing!

That opinion is badly out of date.

Four years ago the site was subjected to 16 hour sessions with the Site VP.  Took him all summer to do.  We got buttons that simply said "I am convinced."

Convinced that the industry bar had moved, but SONGS had not.  Metrics mostly low, standards no longer best-of, performance below average.  Convinced things needed to change.  Convinced into humility.

A sad part of moving from humility to change to renewed pride is all the uninformed, ignorant opinions flung about by knuckleheaded travelers who 1) haven't been there in years, and 2) are self-appointed experts on how to do what they have sworn to never do....lead.

Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Longtime Nuke on Aug 26, 2009, 09:42
I have also worked at San Onofre recently and agree that the site very openly recognizes the need to change and shook the "arrogance" thing several years ago. 

Been there lately?  Really sweeping change...getting good everywhere.  Especially chemistry, RP, security and (lately) training.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: RDTroja on Aug 27, 2009, 07:43
That opinion is badly out of date.

Four years ago the site was subjected to 16 hour sessions with the Site VP.  Took him all summer to do.  We got buttons that simply said "I am convinced."

Convinced that the industry bar had moved, but SONGS had not.  Metrics mostly low, standards no longer best-of, performance below average.  Convinced things needed to change.  Convinced into humility.

A sad part of moving from humility to change to renewed pride is all the uninformed, ignorant opinions flung about by knuckleheaded travelers who 1) haven't been there in years, and 2) are self-appointed experts on how to do what they have sworn to never do....lead.

Quite a bit of arrogance and ignorance to be flung around by such a humble individual.

You just proved it didn't work even a little bit. Talking the talk is pure BS. Walk the walk and get back to us later when you really have it figured out.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: retired nuke on Aug 27, 2009, 06:54
Fall below that 7 mg/cm2 skin threshold much?

I gotta remember that one - I can just see the blank looks it will cause.... ;)
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: MeterSwangin on Aug 31, 2009, 11:20
Very recently, SONGS has made a huge overt step towards improving overall performance.  Edison has broken the strangle hold that Bechtel has had on the site over the past 35 or so years.  There is a new body broker, Shaw/S&W.  Let the scrambling begin!

You have to wonder if SONGS is headed the way of Comanche Peak. 

Today the Bechtel craft traded in their yellow hardhats for the new Shaw hats....light powder blue.  Too relieved to still have jobs to bitch much about the seriously gay looking PPE....yet.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: perdeim on Sep 06, 2009, 05:24
Can  anyone please tell me if Bartlett is still at SONGS ? they do not list it on there website .

 Thanks
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: perdeim on Sep 06, 2009, 06:10
Does anyone have info on phone number for NSS ?

   Thanks For the info
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: perdeim on Sep 06, 2009, 07:27
 Thanks Mutant you really had me , NSS was a good company just hoping they would come back just a dreamer i guess .
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: MeterSwangin on Sep 06, 2009, 11:47
Thanks Mutant you really had me , NSS was a good company just hoping they would come back just a dreamer i guess .

If you have any questions about working at San Onofre just ask here.

There are several pundits lurking who have not been there in years (or have worked anywhere, one wonders?)  They have lots of strong opinions and advise.

But if you have an opinion, duck!
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Laundry Man on Sep 08, 2009, 10:41
Thanks Mutant you really had me , NSS was a good company just hoping they would come back just a dreamer i guess .

Not sure which NSS you worked for?  They did a hack of a job on Numanco.
LM
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: radbitch on Sep 15, 2009, 07:03
Does bechtel still have people onsite for the SGR project or did they all switch hats? Is the entire site Bechtel free?
TIA
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: radbitch on Sep 15, 2009, 09:05
Rechtel is still driving the SGRO bus.

Thanks for the info..
I'm currently @ CR-3 working with (not 4) Bechtel and inquiring minds wanted to know!
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Domegren on Sep 21, 2009, 11:09
I'm a nuke mechanic just past my five year point without plans of reenlisting. I've been spending a lot of time researching to find out how to prepare for getting out. I always hoped that I'd end up working at a power plant like SONGS primarily for its location since I grew up in Orange County. From what I'm hearing it seems like people are generally happy with the work environment but they aren't able to save much money. I have plans on finishing my degree in nuclear engineering technology through Excelsior College before I get out. Does anybody know if there are frequent job openings for somebody with my qualifications? If so, about what kind of hours and pay would I be looking at?
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: MeterSwangin on Sep 21, 2009, 10:34
I'm a nuke mechanic just past my five year point without plans of reenlisting. I've been spending a lot of time researching to find out how to prepare for getting out. I always hoped that I'd end up working at a power plant like SONGS primarily for its location since I grew up in Orange County. From what I'm hearing it seems like people are generally happy with the work environment but they aren't able to save much money. I have plans on finishing my degree in nuclear engineering technology through Excelsior College before I get out. Does anybody know if there are frequent job openings for somebody with my qualifications? If so, about what kind of hours and pay would I be looking at?

San Onofre is and will be hiring maintenance folks of all kinds.  HVAC, welding, I&C, rad monitoring, machinists...you name it.  Move quickly into management position (supervision, planner, quality, etc.)  Basic 1st line supv. pay starts around $8K/mo with all the OT you can eat.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on Sep 22, 2009, 05:26
Once again the NRC is not too pleased with the SONGS team (95-002, column 3).  The SONGS team is not living up to the bill of goods they sold to the NRC to keep the keys. Be careful placing your career eggs in the SONGS basket.  Do a lot of research before you accept an offer for what you think may be your last job and plunk down $750,000.00 for a 1-br condo overlooking I5.

Such as this lil ol memo found here :  http://www.nrc.gov/NRR/OVERSIGHT/ASSESS/LETTERS/sano_2009q2.pdf (http://www.nrc.gov/NRR/OVERSIGHT/ASSESS/LETTERS/sano_2009q2.pdf)

It's often a bad thing when the letter has the phrase "This is the fourth consecutive assessment cycle where substantive crosscutting issues were identified in human performance and problem identification and resolution."
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: MeterSwangin on Sep 22, 2009, 11:39
Once again the NRC is not too pleased with the SONGS team (95-002, column 3).  The SONGS team is not living up to the bill of goods they sold to the NRC to keep the keys. Be careful placing your career eggs in the SONGS basket.  Do a lot of research before you accept an offer for what you think may be your last job and plunk down $750,000.00 for a 1-br condo overlooking I5.

It has been tough.  Column 2, by-the-way, not 3 (yet.)

Ask any of the dozens of very high dollar consultants onsite...this kind of trouble is an opportunity.   New groups, promotions, new initiatives springing up everywhere.  Yeehaw!

Making electricity is boring.  Ever spend an entire summer doing routine surveys and sampling clean air?  Making excellence is much cooler.  Not easy or fast, but cool.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Longtime Nuke on Sep 22, 2009, 11:46
Once again the NRC is not too pleased with the SONGS team (95-002, column 3).  The SONGS team is not living up to the bill of goods they sold to the NRC to keep the keys. Be careful placing your career eggs in the SONGS basket.  Do a lot of research before you accept an offer for what you think may be your last job and plunk down $750,000.00 for a 1-br condo overlooking I5.

Recent years at Column-4 Palo Verde have proved the most opportune, lucrative of my career.  Plants in recovery are where the smart money runs.....
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on Sep 23, 2009, 09:12
It has been tough.  Column 2, by-the-way, not 3 (yet.)

Ask any of the dozens of very high dollar consultants onsite...this kind of trouble is an opportunity.  

And it has been since the early 90s, opportunity for consultants, with lovely views of the beach from the 'Queen Mary", or the box of donuts known as K-50. Yet complacency marches on, whether 120 day outages or misaligned diesels for a few years. But hey, making electricity (while being compliant) sounds boring...  >:(

Think back, why was it that when H.B. Ray was Nuclear VP, things ran well, what has changed??
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: MeterSwangin on Sep 23, 2009, 10:56
Think back, why was it that when H.B. Ray was Nuclear VP, things ran well, what has changed??
THAT is the greatest question.  Really.

Consensus from the new leadership, INPO, and consultants is that the plant didn't change at all.  Kept doing things just like when SALP 1 for years in the 1990s.  No decline, just kept doing what worked.

What changed was the status quo.  The bar changed.  What used to be handled with a find/fix now gets a CR, prompt investigation, review board, effectiveness review, and OE writeup.  SONGS kept doing the find/fix, and is now in the ditch.

Consider RP for a minute.  In the 1990s it was SALP 1 / INPO 1 behavior to put it back if you found a magenta tool outside the RCA.  Now it is a mid-level human performance error demanding investigation, corrective action, trending, prompt mgt action, etc.  No activity on the tool.  Would you really call a plant that just put it back today "broke?"

Yes.
Title: San Onofre Temp Positions/Employers ????
Post by: gbrownell on Oct 05, 2009, 03:51
I spent 6 years working contract security at San Onofre in the 80's. I'm now trying to find employment there during the current outage. Does anybody know who the "Temp" employers are for the more entry level positions? (firewatch/janitorial/transportation) Very much appriciate some direction. Volt, Manpower, and a few others were there during the Unit 1 retro fit and construction of 2 & 3. I loved working there. At one time there were close to 6,0000 workers on site during construction.

Greg
Title: Re: San Onofre Temp Positions/Employers ????
Post by: MeterSwangin on Oct 05, 2009, 11:00
I spent 6 years working contract security at San Onofre in the 80's. I'm now trying to find employment there during the current outage. Does anybody know who the "Temp" employers are for the more entry level positions? (firewatch/janitorial/transportation) Very much appriciate some direction. Volt, Manpower, and a few others were there during the Unit 1 retro fit and construction of 2 & 3. I loved working there. At one time there were close to 6,0000 workers on site during construction.

Greg

Too late, Greg.  On outage day 9 of The Big One.  Hiring done.  Sorry.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on Oct 06, 2009, 01:32
Or fresh lettuce at the cafeteria?  >:(
Title: Re: San Onofre general questions about things
Post by: hdpaul1 on Oct 15, 2009, 07:47
Can anyone point me to info on a few things at SONGS? I am having an interview for an in-house position next week. I would like to explore some things like, what unions are there, who is union and who is mgt. (which inhouse jobs). I know the cost of living is high but have not determined how different from the North East. It looks like housing is the big difference. I would try renting and sharing with someone first.

are electricians union? What about maintenance coordinators? any other info or opinions are appreciated.

Title: Re: San Onofre general questions about things
Post by: HydroDave63 on Oct 15, 2009, 12:31
Can anyone point me to info on a few things at SONGS? I am having an interview for an in-house position next week. I would like to explore some things like, what unions are there, who is union and who is mgt. (which inhouse jobs). I know the cost of living is high but have not determined how different from the North East. It looks like housing is the big difference. I would try renting and sharing with someone first.

are electricians union? What about maintenance coordinators? any other info or opinions are appreciated.

I'll give you a hint....the answers are in THIS VERY THREAD!!
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: hdpaul1 on Oct 15, 2009, 01:25
so your gonna make me actually work for my answer, huh?
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Brett LaVigne on Oct 16, 2009, 07:46
You will fit right in at SONGS.

HA! Thats funny.
Title: Re: San Onofre general questions about things
Post by: MeterSwangin on Oct 17, 2009, 10:36
Can anyone point me to info on a few things at SONGS? I am having an interview for an in-house position next week. I would like to explore some things like, what unions are there, who is union and who is mgt. (which inhouse jobs). I know the cost of living is high but have not determined how different from the North East. It looks like housing is the big difference. I would try renting and sharing with someone first.

are electricians union? What about maintenance coordinators? any other info or opinions are appreciated.



Ignore the turds.  They are swirling in some bowl far from California and no longer work for a living.

SONGS craft are UWUA.  Cost of living is comparable with northeast...pay is high.  No snow.  Great folks.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on Oct 18, 2009, 04:03
  SONGs employees live pretty close to the plant - whether it be O'Side

and here is where they are at shift turnover time...

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3100/2646822453_0dcea4ff9a.jpg)
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: dirac on Oct 18, 2009, 04:12
and here is where they are at shift turnover time...

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3100/2646822453_0dcea4ff9a.jpg)

Funny I commute 5 days a week there and have to go thru that checkpoint maybe once a month at most causing me a five minute delay. WOW, point really made. No different then having to go through any kind of toll booth on the way to work - except its closed 95% of the time.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: dirac on Oct 18, 2009, 06:38
Point well made T. Its just people have made attempts to say good things (mainly meter swangin) and they get countered with nonesense posts that attack not only the plant but so cal in general and I'm gettin tired of reading these silly claims people are making.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Brett LaVigne on Oct 18, 2009, 07:10

Many of the people I know at SONGS that are house or long term contract commute stupid distances because of the high price of coast living. I know more than one person that works there and travels over 70 miles to work. When I worked SONGS a lot through the 90's, I liked to stay in San Clemente. It had a reputation for being a nice place to live with safe streets compared to Oceanside and some other reasonable comutes. Last time I was there (2007 - 2008) there were several robberies in San Clemente. One was a deconner trying to get cash out of an ATM in San Clemente, he got beat up and robbed. When I was in San Clemente in 1996, the population of the town was around 45,000. In 2006 when I returned, I believe it had grown by over 20,000. That may not seem significant over that time frame, but for a town the size of San Clemente, it's way too much. When my wife and I were there in 2007, it was a rare day to be able to park my car within' 2 blocks of where I lived. From LA south, California is like a clown car!

I no longer see my self ever wanting to visit southern California again. A place I used to love has been taken over by illegal Mexicans, is over priced in every respect, and really offers nothing other than nice sunshine and crowded beaches. But this is my opinion based on watching the area and living there on and off (not just for outages by the way) for a period of more than 15 years.

Oh, by the way. I just wanted to add at this point that the Mid-coast and North coast of California really suck too...really...you don't want to come here and you need to pass that along to your 20 million southern Californian neigbors...please... ;D

For what it's worth, that is my opinion. And this is from someone that has stayed in the area in the last couple of years and has a 15 year history with the area as well. My taste is not yours, so you might be ok with what I mentioned. So, if you like thousands and thousands and thousands of neigbors, want to pay way too much for a small house, like the idea that english is a 2nd language, like a very poor public school system, huge fires on a yearly basis, plenty of crime...then this might be for you. I will say that San Clemente has Fat Burger...and that is a good thing!
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Brett LaVigne on Oct 18, 2009, 08:46
Perhaps I need to attend Broadzilla's charm school.


HA! Thats funny! I actually kinda like the brutal honesty. If people aren't smart enough to check things out for them selves and not just take the word of people here, they will get what they deserve. I believe most on here would be smart enough to do both, and realize that what is good for one is not neccessarily good for another. There will always be those for and those against what ever the topic is. Take the perspective, negative or positive, consider it all and consider the sources. Then go look your self and make you decision.

You don't need charm school for these threads, others just need to thicken up a bit and not take it so personally when someone has a different point of view.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: dirac on Oct 18, 2009, 10:38
When I was in San Clemente in 1996, the population of the town was around 45,000. In 2006 when I returned, I believe it had grown by over 20,000.

My taste is not yours, so you might be ok with what I mentioned. So, if you like thousands and thousands and thousands of neigbors, want to pay way too much for a small house, like the idea that english is a 2nd language, like a very poor public school system, huge fires on a yearly basis, plenty of crime...then this might be for you. I will say that San Clemente has Fat Burger...and that is a good thing!

If the cost of living is so much how did 20,000 people end up moving there? Last time I checked people move to places they want to live.

Poor California School System:
1. Stanford
2. UC Berkeley
3. UCLA
4. Boalt School of Law
5. UCSF
6. Harvey Mudd
7. USC
8. UC San Diego
9. Cal Tech
 Just to name a few. Yeah really bad schools (majority of whos students are California residents educated in California Schools).



Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on Oct 18, 2009, 11:23
Quote
Ill keep it professional from here on.

still waiting on that, I reckon

If the cost of living is so much how did 20,000 people end up moving there? Last time I checked people move to places they want to live.

Poor California School System:
1. Stanford
2. UC Berkeley
3. UCLA
4. Boalt School of Law
5. UCSF
6. Harvey Mudd
7. USC
8. UC San Diego
9. Cal Tech
 Just to name a few. Yeah really bad schools (majority of whos students are California residents educated in California Schools).

As evidenced by California placing #34 in the US for 2009 SAT scores, lagging behind #8 Nebraska (where it is still legal for 14 year olds to detassle corn on schoolnights) and #18 Louisiana (where Hurricane Katrina washed the books away but they still whomped #34 ranked Commiefornia)
http://blog.bestandworststates.com/2009/08/25/state-sat-scores-2009.aspx (http://blog.bestandworststates.com/2009/08/25/state-sat-scores-2009.aspx)

Now, if you choose to be proud of a plant that declares an Alert for a foot long piece of scrap pipe and has 4 quarters running of Problem Identification and Resoulution http://www.nrc.gov/NRR/OVERSIGHT/ASSESS/LETTERS/sano_2009q2.pdf (http://www.nrc.gov/NRR/OVERSIGHT/ASSESS/LETTERS/sano_2009q2.pdf) it's entirely up to you. Having the extra NRC people on site is a GREAT way to "network" with industry professionals!  ;) Heck, they might even put in a good word for ya. I'm sure you'll let the folks over at K-50 and the Queen Mary (http://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/topic,9430.msg113908/topicseen.html#new) know how you told off those unbelievers online....
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: desertdog on Oct 18, 2009, 11:37
I dont need to know him. He has said everything he needs to about himself through his comments - which is the point I'm trying to make. If you read through the SONGs posts no other plant receives quite as much ridicule about its community and those who work there as SONGs does. And its mainly due to folks like Mutant who take it upon themselves to fabricate stories and spew bile with nonsense statements and untrue facts. I have no problem calling a spade a spade when I see one. Mutant is a dolt and know nothing about working SONGs or Southern California.

I just wonder how many plants you have been to work. These stories aren't fabricated. They are written by those of us that have worked there plus many other plants around the country. We have seen good stuff and bad stuff from all of them. SONGS has allowed bad stuff to go uncorrected. There has been very little accountability from management down through the workforce so it is very frustrating to do your job to the utmost. Instead of fixing the problems, the preferred response is to argue that there is no problem.

Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Chimera on Oct 20, 2009, 01:08
I have to agree with Brett.  I used to live in San Diego in the 60's and 70's.  I've worked at San Onofre off and on for over 20 years since the early 80's.  I like the plant and I like the people that I've worked with there - both contractor and house.  I don't necessarily agree with everything I've seen and done at SONGS but I can say that about most all of the other 20+ plants I've worked at over the years - also both as a contractor and as house.

My primary turn-off where San Clemente and SONGS is concerned is the political environment I've seen grow and change over the years in California.  Quite honestly, that's what keeps me out of California these days.  I miss the plant, my friends there and the San Clemente area in general, but . . .
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on Oct 20, 2009, 02:39
Ever hear of the SGR that had only 3 PCEs by day 24?   Didn't think so.  SONGS. 

Ever hear of the plant where Maintenance couldn't even pull fuses correctly during Aux Feedwater testing? Yep. SONGS.  http://www.nrc.gov/NRR/OVERSIGHT/ASSESS/SANO3/sano3_pim.html (http://www.nrc.gov/NRR/OVERSIGHT/ASSESS/SANO3/sano3_pim.html)
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Brett LaVigne on Oct 20, 2009, 03:01
Works for me.  Live where you like and prosper. 

Park in the living room in your underwear between shifts at the carwash.  Go online and piss on places you got kicked out of.  Make stuff up.  Find petty crimes in distant neighborhoods on the internet.  Eat cheetos and drool on the keyboard.

Ever hear of the SGR that had only 3 PCEs by day 24?   Didn't think so.  SONGS. 

Never been kicked out of anywhere that I can remember, never made stuff up either. In fact I was encouraged to apply for a house position not only at SONGS, but also Cook, Palasaids and a core group for Southern Company in the last 3 years. In fact, the second to last outage I did at SONGS in 2007, I needed to ask for a layoff date so I could make it home for Christmas, this was after 8 weeks and most of the RIF had already taken place.

Sometimes the truth sounds mean, doesn't mean it isn't true. I think people pretty much get who you are and what you are all about. If you like it, fine. Say you like it. Your taste is different than others. But it is not very adult like to think your opinion is the only valid opinion. If you were to read my post all the way through, you would see that this is where I stand. I think people need to go and form their own opinions and not just listen to me or you. I can't imagine how difficult you must be to deal with on the job, believeing that you have all the answers and the only point of view that matters. Sounds dangerous for our environment, I wish your peers luck and hope they are out of the way when it goes wrong.

The best memories I have of being on the road as a rent a tech were right there at SONGS in the early to mid 90's. If you actually knew me, you would know that I do not have any other motive than to give someone an honest opinion. You are offended and personally hurt by my opinion. It is starting to sound like you are trying to convince yourself that SoCal is a great place and doesn't have any of the problems that many here agree to be the truth.

Are PCE's your benchmark for a successfull outage? You probably need to expand your vision a bit. There is a lot more to a successfull outage than the number of PCE's.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: dirac on Oct 21, 2009, 08:33
Which plant(s) do you work at Mutant and Hydro that have 0 inpo OE's?
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Brett LaVigne on Oct 21, 2009, 11:36
Which plant(s) do you work at Mutant and Hydro that have 0 inpo OE's?

We all got em', it's just that some plants make it an art form and some plants learn and get better. Nobody is perfect, I think even Diablo Canyon has slipped to INPO 2 for a short time. ;D
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: FatMalky on Oct 25, 2009, 05:55
yawn.....

You tired?  Sorry, I thought it was along the same lines as YOUR argument.

SONGS is BY FAR the most disorganized plant I've ever worked at.  Nice people and nice weather - but the plant as a whole is just CLUELESS as to how the rest of the World operates!  There's not much wrong with being "different" from everyone else but when there's no rhyme or reason for the things you do, it just causes chaos and confusion... you may have noticed!
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: BuddyThePug on Oct 29, 2009, 11:05
Someone left the popcorn in the microwave too long?

Power Reactor Event Number: 45462
Facility: SAN ONOFRE
Region: 4 State: CA
Unit: [ ] [2] [3]
RX Type: [1] W-3-LP,[2] CE,[3] CE
NRC Notified By: M. W. MCBREARTY
HQ OPS Officer: VINCE KLCO  Notification Date: 10/23/2009
Notification Time: 17:46 [ET]
Event Date: 10/23/2009
Event Time: 12:05 [PDT]
Last Update Date: 10/23/2009 
Emergency Class: NON EMERGENCY
10 CFR Section:
50.72(b)(3)(xiii) - LOSS COMM/ASMT/RESPONSE
 Person (Organization):
NEIL OKEEFE (R4DO)
 

Unit SCRAM Code RX CRIT Initial PWR Initial RX Mode Current PWR Current RX Mode
2 N N 0 Refueling 0 Refueling
3 N Y 100 Power Operation 100 Power Operation

Event Text

LOSS OF EMERGENCY PREPAREDNESS CAPABILITIES

"On Friday October 23, 2009, at approximately 1205 PDT, Southern California Edison (SCE) evacuated Building E-50, which includes the SONGS [San Onofre Nuclear Generating Station] Emergency Operations Facility (EOF). This Building is located outside of both the Protected Area and the Owner Controlled Area. The evacuation was initiated due to personnel reports of a smoky odor in Building E-50. SONGS Fire Department responded to the incident and, at approximately 1222 PDT, the majority of Building E 50, including the EOF, was cleared for personnel to re-enter the building. SCE is continuing to investigate the source of the smoky odor.

The EOF was considered unavailable (but fully functional) for approximately 17 minutes.

The licensee notified the NRC Resident Inspector.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Brett LaVigne on Oct 30, 2009, 07:35
Here is a little evidence that Brett was there and his opinion of the site and surrounding communities should not be casually dismissed.





Man, I shoulda never posted that photo! LOL! That was a while ago.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: MeterSwangin on Nov 02, 2009, 11:00
On top of violating forum rules, you're subtle skills of identification need some honing. Don't see any xxxxx's there.

I did not write xxxxx, friend.  Those letters were apparently inserted by the censors.

Did not realize it was uncool to use names.  I know Mutant....so do many of you.  But I guess there is an incognito thing here to be respected.  However nonsensical...

My bad.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Nuclear NASCAR on Nov 02, 2009, 11:15
Rule #7. Peoples name's: It's a bad idea to use them, they lead to law suits. Some names are already censored because of this. Don't use names in stories or messages that could in any way be taken wrong.

It's just one of the forum rules you agreed to when you signed up.  As is the nuclear way, we err on the side of caution.

Thanks for understanding.



Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: navsteve on Nov 26, 2009, 11:56
Does anyone know when they will be hiring for the next NLO class?
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: dirac on Nov 27, 2009, 03:32
I think they interview March/April to start work in June
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: jimdog99 on Dec 04, 2009, 02:09
If the cost of living is so much how did 20,000 people end up moving there? Last time I checked people move to places they want to live.

Poor California School System:
1. Stanford
2. UC Berkeley
3. UCLA
4. Boalt School of Law
5. UCSF
6. Harvey Mudd
7. USC
8. UC San Diego
9. Cal Tech
 Just to name a few. Yeah really bad schools (majority of whos students are California residents educated in California Schools).

What do you have against living with Mexicans? Are you able to pick out an illegal alien from a resident just by looking at them? Or you just don't like living with people that look different from you? I'm not sure if you are aware of this but California actually used to belong to Mexico, so yes there is a large population of people of Mexican heritage that live in Southern California.

The illegal workforce problem is a national one, not just California's. States from Montana to South Carolina are struggling with this.


Lest you forget...  Camp Pendleton and the influx of troops coming and going.  I used to work there too.  The traffic at 0630 on the 5 @ mission was horrible.  I hoped I wasn't late. Better leave early.  BTW, the cost of living is bad.  I can't afford to live in SC and I live in Carlsbad.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: jimdog99 on Dec 04, 2009, 02:11
Works for me.  Live where you like and prosper. 

Park in the living room in your underwear between shifts at the carwash.  Go online and piss on places you got kicked out of.  Make stuff up.  Find petty crimes in distant neighborhoods on the internet.  Eat cheetos and drool on the keyboard.

Ever hear of the SGR that had only 3 PCEs by day 24?   Didn't think so.  SONGS. 

That and the ALARA program.  They have been off the charts good.  Much props to them.  For all of the problems that they have had this is such a good thing.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on Jan 19, 2010, 10:54
Looks like another rain-moisture short of some wiring  :P


Siren malfunctions at San Onofre power plant
Tuesday, January 19, 2010

SAN CLEMENTE, Calif. (KABC) -- Officials say a siren that went off early Tuesday morning at the San Onofre Nuclear Generating Station was a malfunction.

Residents should not be alarmed as there are no problems at the power plant.

Officials were able to reset the alarm, but the cause of the malfunction has not yet been determined.


http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local/orange_county&id=7226480 (http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local/orange_county&id=7226480)
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on Jan 19, 2010, 10:58
I think they interview March/April to start work in June

Hopefully the roads will be drained by then. All those 'civil engineers' on the Mesa, yet no one can keep a road open ...

Power Reactor     Event Number: 45634
Facility: SAN ONOFRE
Region: 4 State: CA
Unit: [ ] [2] [3]
RX Type: [1] W-3-LP,[2] CE,[3] CE
NRC Notified By: GEOFF COOK
HQ OPS Officer: MARK ABRAMOVITZ    Notification Date: 01/18/2010
Notification Time: 23:43 [ET]
Event Date: 01/18/2010
Event Time: 19:50 [PST]
Last Update Date: 01/19/2010
Emergency Class: NON EMERGENCY
10 CFR Section:
50.72(b)(3)(xiii) - LOSS COMM/ASMT/RESPONSE
   Person (Organization):
LINDA HOWELL (R4DO)
ROBERT KAHLER (NSIR)

Unit    SCRAM Code    RX CRIT    Initial PWR    Initial RX Mode    Current PWR    Current RX Mode
2    N    N    0    Refueling    0    Refueling
3    N    Y    100    Power Operation    100    Power Operation

Event Text
EMERGENCY OPERATIONS FACILITY INACCESSIBLE DUE TO ROAD FLOODING

"On January 18, 2010, at about 1950 PST, the access road to the SONGS MESA facilities became flooded after a day of rain. The San Onofre Emergency Operations Facility (EOF) is located at the MESA and because of the flooding, is inaccessible to passenger vehicles. While the EOF itself is operable, in the event of an emergency at San Onofre, SCE [Southern California Edison] would direct EOF emergency responders to the alternate EOF located in Irvine, California. SCE is reporting this occurrence to the NRC in accordance with 10CFR50.72(b)(3)(xiii).

"At the time of this occurrence, Unit 2 was shutdown for a Steam Generator Replacement outage and Unit 3 was operating at about 100% power. SCE will notify the NRC Resident Inspectors about this occurrence and will provide them with a copy of this report."

http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/event-status/event/en.html#en45634 (http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/event-status/event/en.html#en45634)
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on Jan 30, 2010, 12:31
Ever hear of the SGR that had only 3 PCEs by day 24?   Didn't think so.  SONGS. 

Power Reactor Status Report for September 27, 2009
        
San Onofre 2    0    09/26/2009    REFUELING OUTAGE    *    


Power Reactor Status Report for January 29, 2010

San Onofre 2    0

Good thing about taking it slow and easy is that ya save a lot of fuel that way (except for spontaneous fission)             
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: dirac on Jan 30, 2010, 05:30
Piping inspections during the outage revealed degraded piping in all the ECCS suction lines from stress cracking corosion. So more inspections were required and piping had to be replaced. This all pushed the outage out for 40 days. I guess they could have ignored it like Davis Besse but that wouldn't look too good.

No budget issues yet I beleive becasue there was mid cycle down power scheduled for later next year so they're just taking care of it now and will stay online for the duration.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: dirac on Jan 31, 2010, 12:17
They were self identified but the feds have taken an intrest to say the least.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: MeterSwangin on Feb 01, 2010, 08:22
Holy guacamole!  That is a long time to be shut down!  At least CR has an obvious excuse to still be off-line.  Can anybody working the SONGS outage chime in and tell us what is taking so long? We realize it is SONGS but 125 days and counting is a long haul even for that place.  Does it have anything to do with the flooded access road to Jap Mesa?  What about the dose budget, PCEs and injuries?  What do the numbers look like?



Dose and PCEs very good.  Just over 150 rem original goal, and 60 PCEs or so going on day 120-whatever.  Injuries not good...Bechtel had over 100 during SGR.

U2 won't start up until everything is 100% squared away....110%.  Life of the road to recovery.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: crusemm on Feb 04, 2010, 03:30
Anyone currently working at SONGS, please PM me, I have some questions Off Line.  Maybe Pm me your phone # so we can talk.  Thanks
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: miajr84 on Feb 13, 2010, 05:22
Anyone taken the anpeo knowledge test recently ? Know what is primarily on the test ? I read a 700 page study guide. Would like to narrow down what to really concentrate on the test. Thanks for alll the help in advance. Pming me will be the best way. Thanks.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on Feb 13, 2010, 01:46
Anyone taken the anpeo knowledge test recently ? Know what is primarily on the test ? I read a 700 page study guide. Would like to narrow down what to really concentrate on the test. Thanks for alll the help in advance. Pming me will be the best way. Thanks.

Hate to sound corny but...

If you are coming from the Navy nuclear program, bring your A game and you should do fine

If you worked at a power plant other than nuke, it's much the same but a far smaller coal pile

If you haven't worked at a power plant before, count yourself lucky to be invited to test and read the guide. All of it. What concepts would you want a nuclear plant operator to NOT know??
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: miajr84 on Feb 13, 2010, 01:56
yeah ive read the entire guide edison provided me. Read everything. Tooks notes (filled two notebooks) and did all the practice questions. Practice quizes i didnt do to well on im rereading and practicing again and again. Only problem ive had are centrifugal pump flow rate/pump head charts.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on Feb 14, 2010, 12:50
pm me if you have more ?s
Title: SONGS 2nd SGRO
Post by: hrdwrkndgs on Feb 19, 2010, 09:35
I've heard several different things.  Does anyone know who has the next SGRO at songs Bechtel or SGT?
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: dirac on Feb 20, 2010, 12:36
tell me about it. good grief :'(
Title: Re: SONGS 2nd SGRO
Post by: HydroDave63 on Feb 20, 2010, 02:08
The next one?  Hell, they aren't even done with the first one.

Look at all the savings though...lose a little fuel from spontaneous fission, but a LOT less H-3 and Co-60 to deal with  ;)
Title: Re: SONGS 2nd SGRO
Post by: MeterSwangin on Feb 20, 2010, 11:54
I've heard several different things.  Does anyone know who has the next SGRO at songs Bechtel or SGT?

Bechtel has the U3 SGRO.  Starts 9/27/10.
Title: Re: SONGS 2nd SGRO
Post by: MeterSwangin on Feb 20, 2010, 08:49
Unless the cracks in the RSGs (still in Japan) delay the process a cycle or two...

Not an issue.  Repairs completing on schedule, SGs shipping in August.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: NuclearPrincess on Mar 30, 2010, 11:25
I'm new and not entirely certain where this question belongs, but I've been invited to take the ANPEO test at SONGS.  I'm trying to determine two things:

                      1.  Are all the travel expenses even worth taking the test? (I live in Kansas, and will have to personally pay for 2 trips
                           to San Clemente providing I pass the tests.)
                      2.  Can I afford to live in southern California if I'm making $27.50/hr?  Or is that the equivalent to living a tent on the
                           beach?  (Which doesn't necessarily sound bad, I just don't think it's legal)

I've heard lots of great things about the area, but I haven't heard much about the company.  Is it a good company to work for?  I've read through the old posts here, and there aren't too many recent posts with that sort of info.  Any advice or suggestions would be a tremendous help. Thanks!   
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: radbitch on Mar 30, 2010, 08:32
I'll be heading to SONGS in a few weeks. I start the 19th. San Onofre was my 1st nuke back in 83-85, I was 18... (Yea, showing my age!   :o...)  Moneys alot better this time, my 1st job back then was working for Allied washing PC's for $5 bucks an hour.

Can't wait to see what the area looks like 25 years later!  8)
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: MeterSwangin on Mar 30, 2010, 08:48
I'm new and not entirely certain where this question belongs, but I've been invited to take the ANPEO test at SONGS.  I'm trying to determine two things:

                      1.  Are all the travel expenses even worth taking the test? (I live in Kansas, and will have to personally pay for 2 trips
                           to San Clemente providing I pass the tests.)
                      2.  Can I afford to live in southern California if I'm making $27.50/hr?  Or is that the equivalent to living a tent on the
                           beach?  (Which doesn't necessarily sound bad, I just don't think it's legal)

I've heard lots of great things about the area, but I haven't heard much about the company.  Is it a good company to work for?  I've read through the old posts here, and there aren't too many recent posts with that sort of info.  Any advice or suggestions would be a tremendous help. Thanks!   

Princess,  There are people here who don't work anywhere any more and have nothing to say about any place.  Beware the free advice.

SONGS is a great place to live and work, one of the best in the industry.  And getting much better very fast.  Make the trip...you won't be sorry.  Ignore the losers
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on Mar 30, 2010, 09:23
SONGS is a great place to live and work, one of the best in the industry.  And getting much better very fast.  Make the trip...you won't be sorry.  Ignore the losers

Power Reactor Status Report for September 27, 2009
        
San Onofre 2    0    09/26/2009    REFUELING OUTAGE    *    

Power Reactor Status Report for March 30, 2010

San Onofre 2    0

Good thing about taking it slow and easy is that ya save a lot of fuel that way (except for spontaneous fission)             

http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/event-status/reactor-status/2010/20100330ps.html (http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/event-status/reactor-status/2010/20100330ps.html)

Why heck, if Princess hurries, might just get hired, Red Badged and qualified on shift to catch the tail-end of that there refueling outage ! By then the Co60 ought to be <MDA, right?  :P
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: MeterSwangin on Mar 30, 2010, 11:20
http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/event-status/reactor-status/2010/20100330ps.html (http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/event-status/reactor-status/2010/20100330ps.html)

Why heck, if Princess hurries, might just get hired, Red Badged and qualified on shift to catch the tail-end of that there refueling outage ! By then the Co60 ought to be <MDA, right?  :P

Long outage indeed, Dave.  Getting it right, no hurry.

Full pockets.  Fixed plant.  Good thing.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: UncaBuffalo on Mar 31, 2010, 08:29
I'm new and not entirely certain where this question belongs, but I've been invited to take the ANPEO test at SONGS.  I'm trying to determine two things:

                      1.  Are all the travel expenses even worth taking the test? (I live in Kansas, and will have to personally pay for 2 trips
                           to San Clemente providing I pass the tests.)
                      2.  Can I afford to live in southern California if I'm making $27.50/hr?  Or is that the equivalent to living a tent on the
                           beach?  (Which doesn't necessarily sound bad, I just don't think it's legal)

I've heard lots of great things about the area, but I haven't heard much about the company.  Is it a good company to work for?  I've read through the old posts here, and there aren't too many recent posts with that sort of info.  Any advice or suggestions would be a tremendous help. Thanks!  


A couple of years ago, I was testing/interviewing around the country.  SONGS was on my short-list, but I chose not to test there when I found out they wouldn't pay travel.  

I recommend avoiding SCE & their lowball attitude...but you need to weigh how this job opportunity fits into your career plan.  You may find it's worth taking the financial hit now, if you will end up where you want to be in a few years...




(When I was interviewing, it was easy to be picky...most of the utilities were hiring.  I'm sure it's a harder decision in the current economy.  GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR JOB SEARCH!)  :)
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: milo124 on Mar 31, 2010, 01:21
  2.  Can I afford to live in southern California if I'm making $27.50/hr?  Or is that the equivalent to living a tent on the
                           beach?  (Which doesn't necessarily sound bad, I just don't think it's legal)


This is funny since the site has actually opened up one of the parking lots (near the beach) during outages for campers (no charge).
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Brett LaVigne on Mar 31, 2010, 06:44
A couple of years ago, I was testing/interviewing around the country.  SONGS was on my short-list, but I chose not to test there when I found out they wouldn't pay travel.  

I recommend avoiding SCE & their lowball attitude...but you need to weigh how this job opportunity fits into your career plan.  You may find it's worth taking the financial hit now, if you will end up where you want to be in a few years...




(When I was interviewing, it was easy to be picky...most of the utilities were hiring.  I'm sure it's a harder decision in the current economy.  GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR JOB SEARCH!)  :)

Also, take a look at the NRC findings lately. I think they called it a "Chilled" work environment. Low pay and they tend to not care about worker concerns. Check it all out before deciding to go.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: NuclearPrincess on Apr 01, 2010, 10:52
 
$27.50/hour on a 40-hour week grosses $1100.  After deductions it will net less than $700/week.  Good luck enjoying a high quality of life living near SONGS on $700/week.  Then again, with 180+ day outages there is plenty of opportunity for OT.

I doubt I could survive in Southern California and pay off my $50k worth of student loans with that salary.  Also, I really can't afford the expense of both trips right now.  So, from an economic standpoint, I think I'll have to wait until they're hiring at a later date :(
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Brett LaVigne on Apr 01, 2010, 08:11

 "Chilled" was from the report, very ugly! I hope this will be the bottom for them and they can begin the road to recovery. Otherwise, there might not be any new postitions for anyone at that plant. Not good for SONGS...Not good for the industry.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on Apr 01, 2010, 09:05
Full pockets.  Fixed plant.  Good thing.

One group of people who might be dismayed by that level of non-performance will be the shareholders when the 1Q10 earnings reports come out. If EIX doesn't beat the 71 cents/share forecast, coupled with the recent downgrade on Mission Energy bonds, I wouldn't be too surprised to see EIX get a bond downgrade below the current BBB-. Should that downgrade transpire with Shutdown Often Non-Generating Station not in Mode 1, I wouldn't be surprised to see either a new Site VP or a new logo on the hardhats in 2011 >:(
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: MeterSwangin on Apr 01, 2010, 10:56
One group of people who might be dismayed by that level of non-performance will be the shareholders when the 1Q10 earnings reports come out. If EIX doesn't beat the 71 cents/share forecast, coupled with the recent downgrade on Mission Energy bonds, I wouldn't be too surprised to see EIX get a bond downgrade below the current BBB-. Should that downgrade transpire with Shutdown Often Non-Generating Station not in Mode 1, I wouldn't be surprised to see either a new Site VP or a new logo on the hardhats in 2011 >:(

Not sure what all that means.  Must be why I work for money rather than have money work for me.

Making electricity is not important when facing Column 3.  Ask Davis Besse or Palo Verde. 

All focus on getting good again.  And it is working.

New RPM just announced.  TMI guy.


Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: desertdog on Apr 02, 2010, 07:52
Not sure what all that means.  Must be why I work for money rather than have money work for me.

Making electricity is not important when facing Column 3.  Ask Davis Besse or Palo Verde. 

All focus on getting good again.  And it is working.

New RPM just announced.  TMI guy.




Hope he isn't the one that gave us our welcome to TMI speach in '97.  "We have seen the worst here and are nowhere near that with this unit. This outage will end and you will be down the road so just do things our way"
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on Apr 02, 2010, 08:17
All focus on getting good again.  And it is working.

Umm...that whole WANO/SALP/INPO rating thing only goes up after a plant comes back online and has improved sustained operations. Unless you consider your competition to be Hallam, Pathfinder, Rancho Seco and Zion ??!?
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: N.Bohr on Apr 04, 2010, 05:58
Has anyone heard about the upcoming anpeo class that they are currently hiring for?  Start date, etc...
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: boomshakalaka on Apr 07, 2010, 07:58

I doubt I could survive in Southern California and pay off my $50k worth of student loans with that salary.  Also, I really can't afford the expense of both trips right now.  So, from an economic standpoint, I think I'll have to wait until they're hiring at a later date :(



but does the 'outage' apply to the wages of apprentice operators as well? I heard the new apprentice operators sit in classrooms for 7-8 months anyway, and can look forward to a raise to $35 in 12-18 months..Plus i'm sure on a 12 hour shift, you can work over 40/week. I saw somehwere on this thread that avg pay for week was around $1780..

boom
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on May 28, 2010, 11:51
All focus on getting good again.  And it is working.

New RPM just announced.  TMI guy.

Looks like a rad survey of the switchyard next outage...lol  

 Fiestaware  bushings to save money???

OFFSITE NOTIFICATION TO CALIFORNIA DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC HEALTH

"On May 19, 2010, at approximately 1730 PDT, San Onofre Nuclear Generating Station (SONGS) was notified that scrap bushings from breakers in the Unit 2 switchyard had alarmed a radiation monitor at a metal recycling facility in Los Angeles County. The metal recycling vendor (Alpert and Alpert) shipped the bushings back to a Southern California Edison (SCE) facility in Orange County. On May 21, 2010, SONGS completed isotopic analysis of a sample of ceramic shards from six randomly selected bushings. The analysis confirms the presence of naturally occurring radionuclides (uranium and thorium series), but does not indicate the presence of licensed radioactive material.

http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/event-status/event/2010/20100524en.html#en45943 (http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/event-status/event/2010/20100524en.html#en45943)
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Already Gone on May 29, 2010, 03:42
The metal recycling vendor (Alpert and Alpert) shipped the bushings back to a Southern California Edison (SCE) facility in Orange County.


Hmmmmm.  SONGS is in San Diego County.  Only by a few yards, but definitely in SD County.  Why would someone send them to a site in Orange County instead of sending them back to SONGS?  It makes me wonder.  Would it be a problem to release NORM from the nuke site if it had been returned there?  Or, is it an appearance thing?  Naturally, if I were an interested (but untrained) bystander, I would probably be alarmed to see a bunch of technicians with radiation detection gear in my neighborhood.  Anybody got any insight on the reason for sending the stuff there?
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: MeterSwangin on May 29, 2010, 04:13
The metal recycling vendor (Alpert and Alpert) shipped the bushings back to a Southern California Edison (SCE) facility in Orange County.


Hmmmmm.  SONGS is in San Diego County.  Only by a few yards, but definitely in SD County.  Why would someone send them to a site in Orange County instead of sending them back to SONGS?  It makes me wonder.  Would it be a problem to release NORM from the nuke site if it had been returned there?  Or, is it an appearance thing?  Naturally, if I were an interested (but untrained) bystander, I would probably be alarmed to see a bunch of technicians with radiation detection gear in my neighborhood.  Anybody got any insight on the reason for sending the stuff there?

Breakers don't belong to nuke plant, belong to Edision Transmission Dept. headquartered in Orange County (near Long Beach scrap yard that rejected them.)  Just sent them short trip to sit in Transmission yard while Co. pumped out memo confirming NORM....


Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: tr on May 29, 2010, 10:21
Also, my understanding is that the facility they are at has the capabilities, and license, to possess and work on radioactive material.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: UncaBuffalo on Jun 28, 2010, 06:33
During the ISFSI project (projects?), the equipment was sprayed with some chemical before it went in the pool (...to keep the contamination from sticking).  What brand of chemical was it?

Thanks!
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on Jun 28, 2010, 06:36
During the ISFSI project (projects?), the equipment was sprayed with some chemical before it went in the pool (...to keep the contamination from sticking).  What brand of chemical was it?

Thanks!

Considering some of the adventures provided by Procurement and Maintenance in the past, I wouldn't be surprised if that chemical was known as "ScotchgardTM"
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: MeterSwangin on Jun 28, 2010, 11:53
During the ISFSI project (projects?), the equipment was sprayed with some chemical before it went in the pool (...to keep the contamination from sticking).  What brand of chemical was it?

Thanks!

alconox
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: UncaBuffalo on Jun 29, 2010, 05:48
alconox

Excellent!  Thanks!  :)

Any opinion on whether it worked well enough to recommend?
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Brett LaVigne on Jun 29, 2010, 11:13
Excellent!  Thanks!  :)

Any opinion on whether it worked well enough to recommend?

I'm stalking you!!! ;D

That stuff works pretty well, but if you use it in your cavity after drain down it is a serious safety issue. It is as if you are walking on vasiline coated stainless. I remember it being difficult to climb the rungs to exit without losing footing. Keeps the contamination from floating away though.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Rennhack on Jun 29, 2010, 11:44
alconox

I don't see "Keeping things from sticking" in the product discription:

Quote
ALCONOX - Powdered Precision Cleaner: Concentrated, anionic detergent for manual and ultrasonic cleaning. Free rinsing to give you reliable results without interfering residues. Ideal for cleaning contaminants from glassware, metals, plastic, ceramic, porcelain, rubber and fiberglass. Excellent replacement for corrosive acids and hazardous solvents. USDA authorized. Dilute 1:100. pH 9.5
Source: http://www.alconox.com/static/section_top/gen_catalog.asp

It's my experience with it that there is no residue.  It neither interfeers with footing, nor causes contamination to not stick to it.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Brett LaVigne on Jun 29, 2010, 05:24

It's my experience with it that there is no residue.  It neither interfeers with footing, nor causes contamination to not stick to it.

Yes, once rinsed. What I was referring to is the way we used it at SONGS with the cavity. Gotta go down there to rinse, and until it is rinsed it was very slippery. I don't remember using it as a preventative measure to keep things from becoming contaminated prior to being submerged in contaminated water, but it works well to prevent airborn on large, highly contaminated areas. We have also had tremendous success with a 20% glycerol/water mixture here at Humboldt. We used it in bug sprayers while removing and packaging our fuel racks. Wrap it or paint it are the most effective ways to prevent something getting contaminated. Alconox would simply wash away once dunked I think.

Our water is somewhere around -4 Uci/ML (Cs-137, Am-241, Pu-239, Sr-90...sounds like fun huh?!), we can use as much water as we like. We don't use anything other than water on the way in, and water on the way out. Many many times our cords and fuel tools come out of the water <1K/<20 from just using water and a sprayer. That might not be an option at a running plant, just wanted to share the experience.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: MeterSwangin on Aug 13, 2010, 08:54
What is the recovery plan from the recent INPO 4 rating?

Familiar formula:  new leaders, tons of $$, time.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on Aug 13, 2010, 09:14
Familiar formula:  new leaders, tons of $$, time.

Almost sounds like what another Region IV ( Region V back in the day ) site had planned for its 1989 restart... (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:sGFvMCHVsnUJ:www.jbsenergy.com/Energy/Papers/Rancho_Seco/rancho_seco.html+rancho+seco+million+vote&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a)
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on Aug 14, 2010, 09:16
One group of people who might be dismayed by that level of non-performance will be the shareholders when the 1Q10 earnings reports come out. If EIX doesn't beat the 71 cents/share forecast, coupled with the recent downgrade on Mission Energy bonds, I wouldn't be too surprised to see EIX get a bond downgrade below the current BBB-. Should that downgrade transpire with Shutdown Often Non-Generating Station not in Mode 1, I wouldn't be surprised to see either a new Site VP or a new logo on the hardhats in 2011 >:(

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bs?s=EIX (http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bs?s=EIX)

Segment Results

Southern California Edison's (SCE) GAAP EPS in the reported quarter was 92 cents, compared to $1.53 in the year-ago quarter. Adjusted earnings were 75 cents, compared to 61 cents. The increase in adjusted earnings was due to lower income tax expense and higher authorized revenue to support rate base growth. This was partially offset by a higher operating expense.



Put yourself in the Board of Director's shoes. Were it not for a one-time income tax switcheroo, the "adjusted" 2Q10 earnings would have been around 25-30 cents a share. Scarcely enough to cover dividends and bond payments, neither of which can you fool with if you want to keep your Moody's ratings. Every other part of the EIX corporation is earning good money, except for your INPO 4 ship-in-a-bottle on the beach. Reading the accounting (http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bs?s=EIX) shows that the "Retained Earnings" line swells every quarter to cover money sunk into operating it.

You call the play:

1. Call in NMC to make you part of the pool and save ya (no longer an option)

2. Decommission (awful thought but bean counters can prove it makes sense on paper now)

3. Bring in smart people from another CE System 80 owner that either purchases or manages for others. Entergy or FPL ?

4. Bite the bullet and hope the current crew self-heals in a timely manner.

5. Immediate Stalinist purge of some slugs and some good folks, and roll the dice on their replacements.

Perhaps a topic for a poll?
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: MeterSwangin on Aug 14, 2010, 10:31
It's California,.....#2,...

Sorry, but you guys dont get it at all.  Units run great...U3 on day 610 this weekend.  Position on grid absolutely vital.  Burn no coal in Ca., so nukes are key zero carbon baseload.  And juice is pricey per kwh, but who cares?  Climate is mild, pay is high.  My juice rate is 3x Oregon, but monthly power bill is $80.  Yawn.

So INPO 4 drill is just dancing without the music.  Learn the new lingo, hire the expensive consultants, change the procedures, starch shirts in the control room, buy new gear, paint the rocks.  In a couple years be declared fixed, and the dance starts somewhere else.  Yawn.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: tr on Aug 15, 2010, 08:09
That has to be the longest refueling outage ever!
Um, no.  Unit 3 has been on a 610 day continuous run since startup.  This is the longest continuous run for any of the 3 SONGS units.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Nuke of the North on Aug 17, 2010, 05:33
Hello All,

Figured I would register and say howdy. I just learned from an old friend at SONGS today that they had finally achieved their long coveted goal of an INPO 4 a while back. Oh how the once mighty have fallen! Hard to believe that they were once an INPO 1 when I first started working their in the 90's. Oh well, I guess it just goes to show you that hard work can indeed pay off!

I wonder how many of my old pals are still there and have survived the corporate blood-letting.

See you all around the forum.

carry on...
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: MeterSwangin on Aug 17, 2010, 06:57
Hello All,

Figured I would register and say howdy. I just learned from an old friend at SONGS today that they had finally achieved their long coveted goal of an INPO 4 a while back. Oh how the once mighty have fallen! Hard to believe that they were once an INPO 1 when I first started working their in the 90's. Oh well, I guess it just goes to show you that hard work can indeed pay off!

I wonder how many of my old pals are still there and have survived the corporate blood-letting.

See you all around the forum.

carry on...

Place looks the same, North Nuke.  Plants run well, staff is sharp, plant looks good.  What changed, of course, was the height of the bar.  Now a person tardy from a training break results in a red window, poor line ownership, ya-da, ya-da....
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Nuke of the North on Aug 17, 2010, 07:32
Place looks the same...plant looks good.

What about all of the bird poop on top of the domes?  ;)

Oh, and what about U1? Completely gone yet?
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on Aug 17, 2010, 09:33
Place looks the same, North Nuke.  Plants run well, staff is sharp, plant looks good.  What changed, of course, was the height of the bar.  Now a person tardy from a training break results in a red window, poor line ownership, ya-da, ya-da....

With 2800 people on site, that must happen often  ::)
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Nuke of the North on Aug 18, 2010, 02:55
With 2800 people on site, that must happen often  ::)

Does Gaby still feed half of them?
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on Aug 18, 2010, 03:36
Does Gaby still feed half of them?

Well, yeah!....it's not like they are handing out Chart House Bucks anymore!

Besides, who can resist cracking open that heated PVC wrap thick enough for a RAM shipment, and lapping up the hot melted gooey Monterey Jack cheese on that 4-8 hour old Malibu sandwich, I ask you ?!?  :P  If you can't finish it all, just toss it to the carnivorous squirrels or the family of raccoons chasing the 43 watch out of the switchyard on night log checks.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on Aug 18, 2010, 05:24
Sorry, but you guys dont get it at all.  Units run great...U3 on day 610 this weekend.  Position on grid absolutely vital.  Burn no coal in Ca., so nukes are key zero carbon baseload.  And juice is pricey per kwh, but who cares?  Climate is mild, pay is high.  My juice rate is 3x Oregon, but monthly power bill is $80.  Yawn.

So INPO 4 drill is just dancing without the music.  Learn the new lingo, hire the expensive consultants, change the procedures, starch shirts in the control room, buy new gear, paint the rocks.  In a couple years be declared fixed, and the dance starts somewhere else.  Yawn.

1. SONGS position on the grid isn't absolutely vital. The CAISO G-2 study for both units at SONGS offline is a VAR constraint, not MW. In other words, marginal prices might rise a little, but those megawatts would come from Escondido or Four Corners or *gasp* Arizona, just as they do now 24/7 depending on prices. That VAR support could easily come from a couple large SVC's installed in the yard, or convert the TG's to synchronous condensers. That's what one utility did to its dual unit site with performance and people issues located near a large urban area. (http://www.pjmenergy.com/committees/working-groups/rswg/downloads/20050826-item-3b-pjm-presentation.pdf) (pages 23-30)

2. California hypocritically uses plenty of coal power every day, simply choosing to move the exhaust to the Navajos and Utes. Ask any grid operator or marketer in the Southwest, those deals go from Four Corners, Intermountain, San Juan, Cholla and Navajo units to the mallrats of SoCal daily. Calif's moral high ground is built on a pile of clinker.

2.1  The Day Ahead cost of power right now is around $41/MWh , or 4 cents/kWh for the wholesale power part of the residential rate. In a world without SONGS, that might go to 6 or 7 cents for the wholesale part. The Lakers wouldn't be playing by candlelight. You could still get a hot #6 combo at Alberto's drive-thru. Or, if things don't change right quick there on site, you might be handing it to me out of the folding window. I'll take Mild sauce, por favor.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: MeterSwangin on Aug 18, 2010, 07:51
What about all of the bird poop on top of the domes?  ;)

Oh, and what about U1? Completely gone yet?

Unit 1, like the bashers who have not been here for years and dunno diddly, long gone.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Nuke of the North on Aug 19, 2010, 03:19
Unit 1, like the bashers who have not been here for years and dunno diddly, long gone.

Yea right...bashers...like those of us who spent hundreds of hours writing corrective actions trying to keep the ship upright. Unlike internet chatterboxes who were content to ride the ship all the way to the bottom.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: CPTech on Aug 19, 2010, 04:11
I am a house tech at Comanche Peak and need information about the upcoming outage.  We were confirmed to provide support (Nov-Dec) but were just told the time frame actually may be more January/February.  What is the current staffing date? Also, I have relatives that live in the San Diego area about 40-45 miles from the plant.  How is the traffic flow and approximate driving time if going on Interstate 5 (mostly straight shot).  Any information will be greatly appreciated.   
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: MeterSwangin on Aug 19, 2010, 07:39
I am a house tech at Comanche Peak and need information about the upcoming outage.  We were confirmed to provide support (Nov-Dec) but were just told the time frame actually may be more January/February.  What is the current staffing date? Also, I have relatives that live in the San Diego area about 40-45 miles from the plant.  How is the traffic flow and approximate driving time if going on Interstate 5 (mostly straight shot).  Any information will be greatly appreciated.   

Outage is 10/10/10 through mid-January.

San Diego is a bit of a drive.  Traffic often nasty on I-5.  But they are very good here about accomodations, especially for loanee techs.  Can probably customize hours to avoid traffic.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on Aug 23, 2010, 09:26
Plants run well, staff is sharp

How about that fuse wiring....?

Power Reactor     Event Number: 46182
Facility: SAN ONOFRE
Region: 4 State: CA
Unit: [ ] [2] [ ]
RX Type: [1] W-3-LP,[2] CE,[3] CE
NRC Notified By: LEON RAFNER
HQ OPS Officer: JOE O'HARA    Notification Date: 08/17/2010
Notification Time: 13:56 [ET]
Event Date: 08/17/2010
Event Time: 03:00 [PDT]
Last Update Date: 08/17/2010
Emergency Class: NON EMERGENCY
10 CFR Section:
50.72(b)(3)(ii)(B) - UNANALYZED CONDITION
   Person (Organization):
GEOFFREY MILLER (R4DO)

Unit    SCRAM Code    RX CRIT    Initial PWR    Initial RX Mode    Current PWR    Current RX Mode
2    N    Y    100    Power Operation    100    Power Operation

Event Text
UNANALYZED CONDITION DUE TO POTENTIAL WIRING DISCREPANCY

"On August 16, 2010, at about 0100 PDT, SONGS Unit 2 Train 'A' Emergency Diesel Generator (EDG) 2G002 was removed from service for planned maintenance. Train 'A' EDG is the Appendix R protected Train.

"At about 1545 the same day, Southern California Edison (SCE) discovered a potential wiring discrepancy in the electronic governor. At 0300 on August 17, 2010, SCE determined two wires on a fire isolation fuse were confirmed to be terminated differently than specified in plant drawings and that the discrepancy would prevent the fuse and associated fire isolation switch from performing its Appendix R fire isolation function for the Train 'A' EDG. In accordance with NUREG-1022, Rev. 2, SCE is reporting this occurrence in accordance 10CFR50.72(b)(3)(ii)(B).

"While the incorrect wiring impacted the Appendix R qualifications of the Train 'A' EDG, it did not impact its other design functions and the EDG was capable to fulfill its safety function for all other Design Basis Events. Therefore, SCE considers the safety significance of the condition to be minimal.

"In accordance with LCS specification 3.7.113.1 Condition A, SCE will implement hourly Fire Watches for the impacted plant areas until such time that the wiring on the Unit 3 Train 'A' Emergency Diesel Generator 3G002 is conformed to be correct or has taken actions to correct any wiring discrepancy. An evaluation will be conducted to determine the cause of this condition.

"At the time of this occurrence, Unit 2 and Unit 3 were both at 100% power."

"The NRC Resident Inspector will be notified of this occurrence and will be provided with a copy of this report."
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Nuke of the North on Aug 23, 2010, 09:36
How about that fuse wiring....?

Power Reactor     Event Number: 46182
Facility: SAN ONOFRE
Region: 4 State: CA
Unit: [ ] [2] [ ]
RX Type: [1] W-3-LP,[2] CE,[3] CE
NRC Notified By: LEON RAFNER
HQ OPS Officer: JOE O'HARA    Notification Date: 08/17/2010
Notification Time: 13:56 [ET]
Event Date: 08/17/2010
Event Time: 03:00 [PDT]
Last Update Date: 08/17/2010
Emergency Class: NON EMERGENCY
10 CFR Section:
50.72(b)(3)(ii)(B) - UNANALYZED CONDITION
   Person (Organization):
GEOFFREY MILLER (R4DO)

Unit    SCRAM Code    RX CRIT    Initial PWR    Initial RX Mode    Current PWR    Current RX Mode
2    N    Y    100    Power Operation    100    Power Operation

Event Text
UNANALYZED CONDITION DUE TO POTENTIAL WIRING DISCREPANCY

"On August 16, 2010, at about 0100 PDT, SONGS Unit 2 Train 'A' Emergency Diesel Generator (EDG) 2G002 was removed from service for planned maintenance. Train 'A' EDG is the Appendix R protected Train.

"At about 1545 the same day, Southern California Edison (SCE) discovered a potential wiring discrepancy in the electronic governor. At 0300 on August 17, 2010, SCE determined two wires on a fire isolation fuse were confirmed to be terminated differently than specified in plant drawings and that the discrepancy would prevent the fuse and associated fire isolation switch from performing its Appendix R fire isolation function for the Train 'A' EDG. In accordance with NUREG-1022, Rev. 2, SCE is reporting this occurrence in accordance 10CFR50.72(b)(3)(ii)(B).

"While the incorrect wiring impacted the Appendix R qualifications of the Train 'A' EDG, it did not impact its other design functions and the EDG was capable to fulfill its safety function for all other Design Basis Events. Therefore, SCE considers the safety significance of the condition to be minimal.

"In accordance with LCS specification 3.7.113.1 Condition A, SCE will implement hourly Fire Watches for the impacted plant areas until such time that the wiring on the Unit 3 Train 'A' Emergency Diesel Generator 3G002 is conformed to be correct or has taken actions to correct any wiring discrepancy. An evaluation will be conducted to determine the cause of this condition.

"At the time of this occurrence, Unit 2 and Unit 3 were both at 100% power."

"The NRC Resident Inspector will be notified of this occurrence and will be provided with a copy of this report."

What, again? Are you kidding? How many freaking RCE's have they done on EDG wiring by now? Who is the Electrical SPM these days?
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: montanamike on Sep 24, 2010, 12:46
Well they made to INPO 4! :( thank god I can retire before the NRC shuts this place down! ;(


I currently work at SONGS and worked there for 31 years. I have been management 3 times and been a UWUA local 246 member for last 28 years. this plant is in serious trouble at this time being inpo 3 and heading to inpo 4(my opinion)  the new VP wants to keep his Operators and dump the company's union members in favour of temp contactors. They seem unable to change the way they do business. It will be a sad day to see them go to inpo 4 and perhaps have turn the plant over to some else to run. There is a total lack of respect for the employee's now not like the old days when there was a feeling of team spirit. Now I just look forward to retiring,
truely a sad way to finish a career.  :(
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Incline on Sep 24, 2010, 01:47
I heard Joe Sheppard is the new CNO. If it's true, then hopefully he can turn it around. He is a good person and a strong leader.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: MeterSwangin on Sep 27, 2010, 09:34
I heard Joe Sheppard is the new CNO. If it's true, then hopefully he can turn it around. He is a good person and a strong leader.

Turnaround is well underway.  Joe is here until long-term CNO is hired.  He's a Texan...not here for long.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on Sep 27, 2010, 09:40
That's just how I'd do a major turnaround of a troubled plant...bring in talent that isn't going to stay, so that any valid programs and ideas will be just another "Flavor of the Month" to those that need to get out of the complacency mode.  :-\

Then again, these postings do serve as a 'dipstick' reading of plant recovery thus far...
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Incline on Sep 27, 2010, 11:17
Maybe he will chop some complacent heads at all levels of management and supervision to wake up the ones not with the program. I heard SONGS is top heavy anyway.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: MeterSwangin on Sep 28, 2010, 08:44
That's just how I'd do a major turnaround of a troubled plant...bring in talent that isn't going to stay, so that any valid programs and ideas will be just another "Flavor of the Month" to those that need to get out of the complacency mode.  :-\

Then again, these postings do serve as a 'dipstick' reading of plant recovery thus far...

Can't help but agree that some posters are indeed dipsticks, Dave.  We finally agree.

On topic:  12 days to SGR start.  Unit online for over 640 days without a hiccup.  Old Bartlett friends all arriving and happy to be here.  Good stuff.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Nuke of the North on Sep 29, 2010, 04:18
SONGS has had many leaders that were considered to be a 'good person' and 'strong'.  The status quo machine ate them up and spit them out.
Maybe because they didn't drive snappy red BMW's.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on Sep 29, 2010, 04:21
Or wash those red BMW's ultra-clean up at the HFMUD? ;)
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Nuke of the North on Sep 29, 2010, 05:11
Or wash those red BMW's ultra-clean up at the HFMUD? ;)

You'd have to wait in line behind the guys cleaning their guns!  :o
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: dgcaste on Oct 14, 2010, 03:45
This place is mired with people that work extremely hard with absolutely zero direction. Show up to work, look at SAP, finish what's due, put out the latest "fire", go home, repeat.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: MeterSwangin on Nov 01, 2010, 10:41
Any insiders have an update on the SGRO?  Stories floating around do not paint a pretty picture at day #21.


All true, yet not.  No near-fatalities, PCEs over now that rx is disassembled.  Bechtel will make up lost time.  NRC gave good report on major inspection exit.  RP squared away.  Sun is warm, diem $140.  All good.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on Nov 02, 2010, 05:53
All true, yet not.  No near-fatalities, PCEs over now that rx is disassembled.  Bechtel will make up lost time.  NRC gave good report on major inspection exit.  RP squared away.  Sun is warm, diem $140.  All good.


Oh, you are right.  That shovel that dropped 75-feet, landing a mere 5-feet from a group of workers wasn't even close to being a fatality.  It isn't like they actually got hit with anything.

Sun Dog, duuuude, get with the program! Between playing Hearts before/during/after breakfast in the 70' cafeteria, and an extended lunch period, who has TIME to go outside to dodge shovels or clevis pins or loaded forklifts that fall off of the turbine deck to the ground level below? Vacancy through complacency! ;)
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: MeterSwangin on Nov 02, 2010, 09:50

Sun Dog, duuuude, get with the program! Between playing Hearts before/during/after breakfast in the 70' cafeteria, and an extended lunch period, who has TIME to go outside to dodge shovels or clevis pins or loaded forklifts that fall off of the turbine deck to the ground level below? Vacancy through complacency! ;)

No cards, no extended lunch, no falling clevis pins or forklifts.  You EVER been there, HydroTroll?  Geeze.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: MeterSwangin on Nov 06, 2010, 04:12
How does this outage differ from the past SGRO?  Is the large increase in the number of PCEs during head disassembly the result of higher than anticipated contamination levels? poor rad work practices?  inadequate RP coverage?  increased scope?  all of the above?


Particles.  2000 people go in, one comes out with 200 cpm particle on scrubs.  Repeat next day.  Yawn.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on Nov 06, 2010, 06:30
No cards, no extended lunch, no falling clevis pins or forklifts.  You EVER been there, HydroTroll?  Geeze.

Let's see....finish fries after card game, a right to the elevators, out the door , about 100 feet to the end of the turbine deck and look down....yeah, I have no idea why that big shiny grey thing would be called a Holdup tank, and probably never hung tags on it either. All is well with the world while you are reppin' da 2-4-6!
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on Nov 06, 2010, 06:35
It's odd...93 other plants DON'T have breaker components going back as RAM, maybe some thoriated arcing contacts for that extra ooomph? Someone might want to check the pedigree on those components via Procurement?

http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/event-status/event/2010/20101105en.html#en46395 (http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/event-status/event/2010/20101105en.html#en46395)

Power Reactor    Event Number: 46395
Facility: SAN ONOFRE
Region: 4 State: CA
Unit: [ ] [2] [3]
RX Type: [1] W-3-LP,[2] CE,[3] CE
NRC Notified By: JOHN CUSTER
HQ OPS Officer: PETE SNYDER    Notification Date: 11/04/2010
Notification Time: 22:22 [ET]
Event Date: 11/04/2010
Event Time: 15:04 [PDT]
Last Update Date: 11/04/2010
Emergency Class: NON EMERGENCY
10 CFR Section:
50.72(b)(2)(xi) - OFFSITE NOTIFICATION
   Person (Organization):
BLAIR SPITZBERG (R4DO)

Unit    SCRAM Code    RX CRIT    Initial PWR    Initial RX Mode    Current PWR    Current RX Mode
2    N    Y    99    Power Operation    99    Power Operation
3    N    N    0    Refueling    0    Refueling

Event Text
PORTAL RADIATION MONITOR ALARM ON A SCRAP SHIPMENT

"On November 4, 2010, at approximately 15:04 PDT, San Onofre Nuclear Generating Station (SONGS) was notified that scrap circuit breakers salvaged from the SONGS warehouse had alarmed a portal radiation monitor at a metal recycling facility in Los Angeles County. The monitor indicated a reading approximately 40% above background levels. Naturally occurring isotopes in the circuit breakers are suspected to have alarmed the portal monitor. The metal recycling vendor (Alpert and Alpert) called the Los Angeles branch of the California Department of Environmental Health, Radiological Management (Jeff Day) to obtain a special permit authorizing the return shipment to SCE.

"SCE is reporting this event in accordance with 10CFR50.72(b)(2)(xi).

"At the time of this report, Unit 2 was operating at 100% power and Unit 3 is defueled."

The licensee notified the NRC Resident Inspector.


Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: MeterSwangin on Nov 07, 2010, 12:42
"At the time of this report, Unit 2 was operating at 100% power and Unit 3 is defueled."

The licensee notified the NRC Resident Inspector.[/i]


[/quote]

NORM in a breaker.  HydroTroll sez shut it down and burn coal.  Get a life.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: MacGyver on Nov 08, 2010, 01:36

NORM in a breaker.  HydroTroll sez shut it down and burn coal.  Get a life.

So this breaker event is "normal" {aka "norm", sic}?  Are you serious or are you just "trolling"?
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: roadhp on Nov 08, 2010, 02:14
NORM = Normally Occurring Radioactive Material
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: MeterSwangin on Nov 08, 2010, 06:35
So this breaker event is "normal" {aka "norm", sic}?  Are you serious or are you just "trolling"?

NORM is very normal.  Especially for utilities.  Ceramic insulators go with high voltage......
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Marlin on Nov 08, 2010, 07:23
NORM is very normal.  Especially for utilities.  Ceramic insulators go with high voltage......

   I have had to do some dumpster diving to retrieve some of those insulators from a non radioactive load to a landfill with an incoming radiation monitor. Pea gravel, vitrified clay brick and number of other building materials have NORM in them. At Clinton Power Station during baseline surveys the highest background was from the red brick guardhouse, Guess where the portal monitors for SNM were placed.

Am I on topic or do I have to moderate myself.   [whistle]
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Rennhack on Nov 09, 2010, 10:47
NORM = Normally Occurring Radioactive Material

Naturally Occurring Radioactive Materials (NORM)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturally_occurring_radioactive_material


NORM is not federally regulated in the United States. The Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) has jurisdiction over a relatively narrow spectrum of radiation, and the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has jurisdiction over NORM and has never developed NORM regulations. Therefore, this responsibility befalls the states. Since no government entity has implemented regulations, then states may choose the stringency or lax of the regulations. There are currently 50 states where NORM is known to exist.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Rennhack on Nov 09, 2010, 03:06
Sorry for not understanding you correctly.  You are absolutely correct, Marlin (and others) do seem to stray from time to time.  I on the other hand, never do! 
Sorry!  I deserve a serious  I promise to do better.

We call that posting for points.  You have nothing valuable to add to the topic, and you know you are off topic, yet you post anyways, just to see your post count go up.

Read the Rules thread http://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/topic,4700.msg122119.html#msg122119 and look at #5 in the 'extended' rules, i.e. the "How To Behave On An Internet Forum" section.

Quote
      Step 5: Post Count

      Every time you post, your post count goes up by one. Some people seem to think that the higher the post count, the more worthy and valuable they are to society at large. Frankly, the exact opposite seems to be the case; posting just to up your count is insanely annoying, so make sure all your messages add to a discussion in some way. If you're replying in a thread, make sure what you're writing is funny, interesting or funny and interesting. “yeh i agree LOL” is not, in any way, shape or form, a valid reply, ever.

Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: MacGyver on Nov 10, 2010, 01:27
Naturally Occurring Radioactive Materials (NORM)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturally_occurring_radioactive_material


NORM is not federally regulated in the United States. The Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) has jurisdiction over a relatively narrow spectrum of radiation, and the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has jurisdiction over NORM and has never developed NORM regulations. Therefore, this responsibility befalls the states. Since no government entity has implemented regulations, then states may choose the stringency or lax of the regulations. There are currently 50 states where NORM is known to exist.

Thank you Mike (and the rest).



But this is funny:
Are you freaking serious?!  WTF?  I'm not allowed to play?  Again, WTF?! >:( >:( >:( >:(
Did you not read my post saying I NEVER did that?  WTF?!?!?!

Do you remember our mom's saying if you make that face it would stick?
Quote

Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: The People on Nov 19, 2010, 04:42
EASILY the worst plant I have been to.

EASILY the worst HP Department I have seen.

EASILY the worst Procedures I have tried to follow.

SONGS really is in trouble and you know what?... I don't even feel sorry for them!  I maybe would if they were willing to accept just how screwed up they are, but the level of both ignorance AND arrogance around the plant is astounding.

So they just dumped literally THOUSANDS of gallons of contaminated water from the RWST into their Aux Feed Water Tunnel.  About 2 to 3 feet deep in there!  Not to mention the fact there were people in there when the water started coming in who had a "limited means of egress".  Now, if that was the only incident (or maybe even just one of two or three) you could say, "Well, stuff happens"... but it's not!

Almost daily, the Security Dept has failing equipment, resulting in long lines of people trying to get in to the plant.  If it's not the hand-geometry readers it's the X-Ray machines.  If it's not those it's the turnstiles at the parking lot.  If it's not those, it's the vehicle bollards.  If it's not those it's the "Heavy Blocking Vehicles" that they put in place of the broken bollards not being able to move, as the batteries are dead... I could go on.  We're not talking lines that take 30 mins to get into work, oh no... we're talking lines of people that take THREE HOURS to get into the PA!!

The Ops Dept has had their wrists slapped by INPO... as has Training.

The HP Dept is the weakest I've seen, with absolutely no balls whatsoever!  "Service Organization" is what they say.  No plans for work to be carried out, no briefs for big evolutions, absolutely NO communication, people in positions who have no right being there... I could go on and on and on and on.

Procedures are open to interpretation.  How can you follow a document VERBATIM that is "open to interpretation"?

Injuries are a daily occurrence at SONGS.  It was the same last year.

Dropped items are also a daily occurrence - it's genuinely amazing and downright LUCKY that they have not killed anyone with a falling object YET!  Again, it was the same last year.

Their "Nuclear Notification" program is an absolute joke.  It is impossible to weed out the important notifications that may have issues that need addressed, due to the literally HUNDREDS of DAILY notifications written about people being late to a training class, or not holding the handrail while ascending the stairs, or someone picking their nose while walking, or not wiping their butt after going to the bathroom etc etc.  On that same subject, there is little to NO feedback on notifications submitted.

Management is obviously failing.  They have no idea what they're doing but the good ol' boy/surfer dude routine is alive and well at SONGS.

In my opinion (using my right to free speech) the best thing that could happen to this place is to remove everyone from General Foreman positions and up (and a large amount of Supervisor positions) and bring in a new owner.  Closing the plant down is an option, but I'd love to see the smug looks wiped off the faces of the Edison management when they see another Utility Company SUCCESSFULLY running their plant!

Avoid!
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: MeterSwangin on Nov 19, 2010, 11:17
Avoid!
[/quote]

My 14th plant.  Good RP team.  Sharp people, treat us right, good equipment and facilities.  Fairly low dose rates, nobody needs a respirator, excellent rad work plan task guides borrowed from Diablo SGR.  BK, Gooch, Eli, Kato all here.

I guess you see what you want to.................
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: The People on Nov 20, 2010, 03:25
I guess you see what you want to.................

Yes, YOU do seem to only see what YOU want to.

Take a poll of the Bartlett Techs that are here this outage and see how many DON'T repeat the words, "This place is f---ed up!"

We all have different opinions on all sorts of things, but if you genuinely believe this is a top place to work then so be it - you can have it! 

I don't know which part of your post was the funniest.  I can't decide between "Good RP team"; "Sharp people" or "excellent rad work plan task guides".  If you think the task guides are excellent then you may want to ask why SONGS doesn't actually FOLLOW these "excellent" plans.  Having them printed out on paper is not good enough - you actually have to follow them for them to work!

How many items have been sent outside with smearable contamination on them?  I've heard of 3 so far.

How many dropped items have almost killed someone?  I believe the last one (a day after the site-wide stand down) was a 3 foot pry bar from the top of Rigging International's Lift System... I guess it's only about 100+ feet. 

How many PCEs so far?

How many First Aid Events?

How many Lost Time Accidents?

How many OSHA Recordables?

How many near misses?

This plant is a time-bomb and sadly, it's only a matter of time before they kill someone with their ineptitude!  I just hope you see the light and move on before it happens to you.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on Nov 20, 2010, 07:09
I guess you see what you want to.................

And that list would include 38% of the votes on this thread, the hundreds of former employees that have left, and the NRC...

Nice.  Consistent! 

OPPD's CNO liked SONGS so much he now runs the place.  Been there 2 years, got the big ship turning.

well, at least Centimeter2Swangin can spot talent. Yes, your hero got the ship turning all right, I believe that's called a 15 degree down bubble, watch out for the continental shelf only a couple miles to the west!  After some previous years of the wreck-it-and-run management style, is it wonder that the previous plant you mention is now in Column III (http://www.nrc.gov/NRR/OVERSIGHT/ASSESS/FCS/fcs_chart.html) ?!?

...treat us right...

Some might disagree...

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/mar/03/feds-want-safety-gains-at-power-plant/ (http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/mar/03/feds-want-safety-gains-at-power-plant/)

Chillin' like a villain, all righty :(


If you enjoy reading dockets to US Dept. of Labor (http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/nctimes.com/content/tncms/assets/editorial/a/5d/5fa/a5d5fa0c-d3fb-11de-b02d-001cc4c03286.pdf.pdf)

For any readers who are not Centimeter2Swangin, please understand that posters aren't motivated by seeing anyone fail. We want SONGS to succeed. We want the owners to succeed. Heck, we even want to see the mascot succeed! Just tired of seeing people in denial at troubled plants that don't understand that complacency has consequences. How many people thought that a couple dozen people not wearing shirts on shift would unemploy a couple thousand? Or got a giggle when that control room rewiring project had control elements moving the wrong way? Wouldn't we rather be celebrating 40 years of nuclear steam at Humboldt, rather than D&D?



Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: The People on Nov 20, 2010, 08:07
Wow.  The performance you have described in your last two posts is exactly why the list of folks who would starve before returning to SONGS is longer than the list of those willing to endure.  Most importantly, these behaviors eventually will spill over into other areas and threaten nuclear safety, and that trumps all.

Good luck Mr. Dietrich, you will need it.



They say, "Never say never" so I won't go as far as to say I will "never" return to SONGS, but I sure as hell will try to avoid it!
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: MeterSwangin on Nov 20, 2010, 08:20
They say, "Never say never" so I won't go as far as to say I will "never" return to SONGS, but I sure as hell will try to avoid it!

So unhappy.  Need any help finding the door? 

Knew lots of guys like this in the Navy.  "Navy sucks, I hate this, everybody is stupid..."  They they reupped, got fat, resumed complaining.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Rennhack on Nov 20, 2010, 09:48
Topic is SONGS.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Ikesss on Nov 23, 2010, 11:56

I agree...on the way out. There are a lot more screwed up plants out there...

quote author=MeterSwangin link=topic=862.msg133801#msg133801 date=1290302423]
So unhappy.  Need any help finding the door? 

Knew lots of guys like this in the Navy.  "Navy sucks, I hate this, everybody is stupid..."  They they reupped, got fat, resumed complaining.
[/quote]
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Brett LaVigne on Nov 26, 2010, 02:37
Avoid!


My 14th plant.  Good RP team.  Sharp people, treat us right, good equipment and facilities.  Fairly low dose rates, nobody needs a respirator, excellent rad work plan task guides borrowed from Diablo SGR.  BK, Gooch, Eli, Kato all here.

I guess you see what you want to.................

You really need to be in Washington! It is amazing how you have defended this plant tooth and nail for so long. After so many first hand accounts of how broken this plant is, you never admit it and in fact defend it as being a model plant. You, and your fantasy about how great SONGS is...is the exact thing everyone is talking about. It is the exact thing that prevents SONGS from being better. Through story after story of a horribly managed facility, and NRC smack down after NRC smack down you continue to argue how great you are...it is amazing!!!

I guess nobody could accuse you of being a fair-weather fan!
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: nuclearnavajo on Nov 26, 2010, 08:44
I have enjoyed the outage so far. Its been SNAFU, but its an SGRP. They remind me of a kid that tries so hard to make things right, but only digs themselves deeper in. Just because they are INPO 4, doesn't mean I am! ;D
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Longtime Nuke on Nov 28, 2010, 12:38
Through story after story of a horribly managed facility, and NRC smack down after NRC smack down

I really can't agree.  This is not a horribly managed facility, and the NRC has not used anything approaching those terms. 

My wife and I have been very well treated here and will come back next outage.

It seems unfair to make sport of bashing a place with uninformed generalities.

Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Sun Dog on Nov 28, 2010, 07:45

It seems unfair to make sport of bashing a place with uninformed generalities.


Uninformed?  These are just a few of the 1000's of examples of the SONGS culture/performance.  If you are there for the outage perhaps you can update us on some common performance indicators (Near Misses, Human Performance Events, Injuries, Dropped Objects, PCEs, Exposure, Schedule Adherance, etc) to show how well things are going.  

11/01/10: A mandatory site-wide stand down will be conducted Monday, Nov. 1, 2010 for all SONGS employees and contractors. All work will be stopped from 0600 to 0730 and from 1800 to 1930 to review recent events, discuss adverse trends, and actions
necessary to improve performance. Managers will ensure all employees participate in the stand down. If employee work schedules fall in between the mandatory stand down windows, managers will ensure those employees participate in a stand down during
their shift. Recent Events and Current Trends

Less than 20 days into the outage we've had 28 injuries, 22 personal contamination events (PCEs), 19 foreign material exclusion (FME) events, 7 dropped objects, and several other human performance events. Although prompt investigations have been conducted for these events, corrective actions have not been effective in improving station performance. We must work together as a team to stop this adverse trend.

09/03/10: Government regulators say San Onofre Nuclear Generation Station has fallen further behind in identifying and solving problems involving the safety culture at the plant, despite previous assurances from top managers.

http://www.nctimes.com/news/local/sdcounty/article_934c6caa-bf61-5e12-a744-48b303b48710.html

03/02/10: Fear of management retaliation is so widespread among employees at the San Onofre nuclear plant that some are reluctant to report safety concerns, even though plant workers as a whole made nearly 10 times more safety complaints than the mid-range for the industry in 2009.

http://greenoc.freedomblogging.com/2010/03/02/nrc-san-onofre-workers-fear-retaliation/20649/

03/02/10: Southern California Edison's SCE restart of the 1,070-megawatt Unit 2 at the San Onofre nuclear power plant in California has been delayed by problems with a pressure test in the containment building that occurred last week, a spokesman for the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission said on Monday.
The unit, which shut Sept. 27 to refuel and to replace the unit's steam generators, is entering the sixth month of an outage that had been expected to return by late December.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN0225637020100302

Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: wingnut on Nov 28, 2010, 10:57
It's plants like SONGS that keep CAP guys like me from ever running out of work. The good news is that they're the exception. My last three outages were so trouble free (CAP-wise that is) that the biggest problem was not getting bored.  ::)
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Longtime Nuke on Nov 28, 2010, 05:49
If you are there for the outage perhaps you can update us on some common performance indicators (Near Misses, Human Performance Events, Injuries, Dropped Objects, PCEs, Exposure, Schedule Adherance, etc) to show how well things are going.  [/b] [/color]


I dont know many of these, and doubt they make much difference to you.

I can help with a couple.  PCEs and dose are below goal, paychecks come on time, sun is shining and nobody I know gets hurt here.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: btkeele on Nov 29, 2010, 03:58
A few thoughts... First off, SONGS has issues just like every other plant out there, I'm not going to say otherwise... Perception vs Reality is often in the eyes of the beholder...

However, a lot of the issues being brought up here (See SunDog's last entry) are really industry wide, not just at Songs..  Injuries, Human Performance Issues, Near Misses... pretty much the same
everywhere.. why?  It's the same workers, procedures, work practices, PPE, etc...  Do carpenters install scaffold differently from 1 plant to another?  Are safety hazards not marked the same?
Is lighting (poor) only an issue at Songs?  (why do we have to take flashlights for initial entries at
every plant).  The threshold at Songs to report injuries is very low , here are a few examples of FA's.   Pulled muscle removing backpack.  Sore wrist from typing.  Blister on foot from safety shoes.
Chipped tooth from eating sandwich.  (LOL my fav).  The same goes for human performance issues..
same workers making mistakes...

Dropped items...  Diablo was much worse (I don't know why, it's the same workers here, same procedures, same mistakes)  Comanche Peak had a large shackel go from the construction opening down to the eq hatch platform (missed a worker by a few feet) then bounced to the ground narrowly missing another worker... how many stand-downs have we had and still these things happen at every plant.. I don't know the solution, but, to blame only Songs Mgmt for these issues is wrong, plenty of
blame to go around.

Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: btkeele on Nov 29, 2010, 04:11
continued:

Schedule adherance:  Let me get this straight... Songs is being criticized for taking the time to
fix problems before starting back up?  Last year the SGR went fine, then issues with ECCS piping were found and the time was taken to fix them, delaying re-start....What about CR then? how
long have they been down... I really dont understand this beef at all, why would anyone want to rush a plant back on-line before the issues are resolved...(confused)

Employee concerns... apparently a few years ago there was a questionaire passed out to all the workers (many contractors) who said they were afraid to or didn't know how to raise concerns...
once again, these are the same workers we deal with at every plant.  Songs and every other plant I have been to take great pains to let the workforce know how to bring up concerns and continually reassure them that there will be no retaliation, here at Songs they have taken it up a notch from any other plant (well maybe Comanche Peak) in letting the workers know how to raise these concerns.  Bartlett has even had a stand-down specifially to talk about the Safety Conscience Work Environment program here.  As mentioned earlier (thepeople) the Notification system here does get
abused for too many minor issues, but, at least they are all getting looked at...

finally (tired of typing)  PCE's and Exposure.   Both are very low compared to other plants SGR's.
Diablo is generally a plant everyone compares themselves to, Songs will come in way under them in
exposure for a SGR (I know there are many factors involved and it's like comparing apples to oranges) but, some people on here don't get that.  PCE's?   TMI (what's their INPO Rating btw)
had more uptakes in 1 day than Songs will have PCE's in 2 SGR's.... once again, apples and oranges.

I personally have had a great run here at Songs, I have really enjoyed the people I have worked with and l look forward to finishing the outage and moving on... We have issues here, no doubt, but
overall it has been a very positive experience.

Barry
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Longtime Nuke on Nov 30, 2010, 09:27
This position will be a Project Manager - Nuclear Corrective Action Program in the Performance Improvement / Corrective Action Program Division within Southern California Edison (SCE)'s San Onofre Nuclear Generating Station (SONGS).

Typical responsibilities include: implementing initiatives to provide closure justification for the Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) and Institute for Nuclear Power Operations (INPO) commitments.



And on your day off you'll be expected to create everlasting peace between the Israelis and the Palestinians.

Somebody needs a hobby.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: nuclearnavajo on Dec 03, 2010, 02:54
OK, the Firewatch who was outside of the radiography boundary getting a dose rate alarm makes me a bit nervous. You would think that more care would be taken in what in such a potentially hazardous evolution. PCE's aren't much of an indicator to me of a plant's HP program (they vary so much in reporting and definition), however inadequate radiography boundaries are. The jury is still out on what the corrective actions will be, I hope the situation will be rectified promptly. I have enjoyed most of the time here . :P :D >:(
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on Dec 03, 2010, 10:35
But the sun was shiny and the ocean breeze was refreshing, right? ;)
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: nuclearnavajo on Dec 03, 2010, 11:13
Why yes, it was.... :P This whole time I thought it was the plant, it might just be the weather! 8)
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Nuke of the North on Dec 04, 2010, 11:50
This position will be a Project Manager - Nuclear Corrective Action Program in the Performance Improvement / Corrective Action Program Division within Southern California Edison (SCE)'s San Onofre Nuclear Generating Station (SONGS).

Typical responsibilities include: implementing initiatives to provide closure justification for the Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) and Institute for Nuclear Power Operations (INPO) commitments.



Buwahahahah. They still haven't successfully filled my old job? Going on 4 years now...
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Fermi2 on Dec 05, 2010, 12:45
Buwahahahah. They still haven't successfully filled my old job? Going on 4 years now...


OR they've successfully filled it and that person has gone on to bigger and better things.

IIRC over the last 6 to 9 years SONGs hasn't been known for having a stellar corrective action program. INPO 3 and 4 doesn't just magically happen so it doesn't look like you were much of a world beater when you had that job eh?
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Nuke of the North on Dec 05, 2010, 06:53

OR they've successfully filled it and that person has gone on to bigger and better things.

IIRC over the last 6 to 9 years SONGs hasn't been known for having a stellar corrective action program. INPO 3 and 4 doesn't just magically happen so it doesn't look like you were much of a world beater when you had that job eh?

The problem was not the quality of the ACE's and RCE's, it was getting the Managers and SPM's to face reality and accept accountability for the CA's. Also, the absolute inability to hold any Local 246 workers personally accountable for ANYTHING doesn't help either. When I left we were INPO 2. I keep in touch, and know that they haven't been able to keep anyone interested in that job since then. No one is willing to put up with all of the political cr@ppola for any length of time. Can't say I blame them.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: tr on Dec 24, 2010, 12:53
NRC just moved SONGS 2 from column 2 (for having one white finding) to column 1 (all performance indicators and cornerstones green).  This puts both SONGS units in column 1.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on Dec 24, 2010, 12:58
Good news indeed!
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: starving_dog on Dec 29, 2010, 04:37
How goes the outage, getting close to the end?
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on Feb 01, 2012, 10:37
How goes the outage, getting close to the end?

Which one?

Facility: SAN ONOFRE
Region: 4 State: CA
Unit: [ ] [ ] [3]
RX Type: [1] W-3-LP,[2] CE,[3] CE
NRC Notified By: DOUG FOOTE
HQ OPS Officer: JOHN KNOKE  Notification Date: 01/31/2012
Notification Time: 22:58 [ET]
Event Date: 01/31/2012
Event Time: 17:30 [PST]
Last Update Date: 01/31/2012 
Emergency Class: NON EMERGENCY
10 CFR Section:
50.72(b)(2)(iv)(B) - RPS ACTUATION - CRITICAL
 Person (Organization):
JEFF CLARK (R4DO)
SCOTT MORRIS (IRD)
LOUISE LUND (NRR)
 

Unit SCRAM Code RX CRIT Initial PWR Initial RX Mode Current PWR Current RX Mode
3 M/R Y 100 Power Operation 0 Hot Standby

Event Text

MANUAL TRIP DUE TO A PRIMARY TO SECONDARY LEAK GREATER THAN 30 GAL/HR

"At 1505 PST, Unit 3 entered Abnormal Operation Instruction S023-13-14 'Reactor Coolant Leak' for a steam generator leak exceeding 5 gallons per day.

"At 1549 PST, the leak rate was determined to be 82 gallons per day. At 1610 PST, a leak rate greater than 75 gallons per day with an increasing rate of leakage exceeding 30 gallons per hour was established and entry into S023-13-28 'Rapid Power Reduction' was performed.

"At 1630 PST, commenced rapid power reduction per S023-13-28 'Rapid Power Reduction'. At 1731 PST, with reactor power at 35% the Unit was manually tripped. At 1738 PST, Unit 3 entered Emergency Operation Instruction S023-12-4 'Steam Generator Tube Rupture'.

"At 1800 PST the affected steam generator was isolated."

All control rods fully inserted on the trip. Decay heat is being removed thru the main steam bypass valves into the main condenser. Main feedwater is maintaining steam generator level. No relief valves lifted during the manual trip. The plant is in normal shutdown electrical lineup.

Unit 2 is presently in a refueling outage and was not affected by this event.

The licensee has notified the NRC Resident Inspector. The licensee has issued a press release.


Tube rupture this early in S/G life...FME issue???
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Nuke of the North on Feb 01, 2012, 09:43


Tube rupture this early in S/G life...FME issue???

Still under warranty - or did they turn down the extended service contract?

Maybe they should call in the Geek Squad to do the repair.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: LaFeet on Feb 02, 2012, 09:49
Mayhap the media should understand the difference between a S/G Utube leak and an actual oozing of materials out into the public. 

Sensational news for those that are clueless. >:(
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: MeterSwangin on Feb 02, 2012, 09:41
.Tube rupture this early in S/G life...FME issue???

Not tube rupture.  Tube leak.  Very small.  Common in 1st cycle after replacement.  20,000 tubes in the unit.  Expect 1 or 2....................
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on Feb 02, 2012, 09:45
Not tube rupture.  Tube leak.  Very small.  Common in 1st cycle after replacement.  20,000 tubes in the unit.  Expect 1 or 2....................

You'll need to tune these people up then...

Tubes inside a new steam generator at San Onofre Nuclear Generating Station are showing unusual and potentially dangerous signs of deterioration, federal regulators announced on Thursday.

"The amount of wear that we are seeing on these tubes is unusual for a new steam generator," said Nuclear Regulatory Commission spokesman Victor Dricks.

More than 800 tubes showed a 10 percent thinning in the tube wall, officials said. 69 others had at least 20 percent thinning. And two tubes needed to be plugged and taken out of service because a third of the wall was worn away.

"If you have that kind of thinning anywhere along the length of the tube, you have a problem because it degrades the integrity of the tube, which can contribute to leaks," explained Dricks.

Safety implications could be "very severe," warned Joram Hopenfeld, a retired NRC engineer and researcher, as the tubes are one of the primary barriers to radioactivity

Trouble in the steam generator was discovered during an inspection that took place when the plant, owned by Southern California Edison, San Diego Gas & Electric and the City of Riverside, was off-line for maintenance and refueling. 

This news comes two days after operators powered down the reactor following a tube leak at the plant's other unit.


http://www.scpr.org/blogs/news/2012/02/02/4506/radioactive-water-tubes-steam-san-onofre-nuclear/ (http://www.scpr.org/blogs/news/2012/02/02/4506/radioactive-water-tubes-steam-san-onofre-nuclear/)
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Fermi2 on Feb 02, 2012, 10:12
Not tube rupture.  Tube leak.  Very small.  Common in 1st cycle after replacement.  20,000 tubes in the unit.  Expect 1 or 2....................

Not common at all. Incorrect. And 30 GPM is NOT a small leak.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Already Gone on Feb 02, 2012, 10:52
Not tube rupture.  Tube leak.  Very small.  Common in 1st cycle after replacement.  20,000 tubes in the unit.  Expect 1 or 2....................
I am at a total loss to understand that statement.

If you expect the world to believe that 30 gpm is to be expected from brand new steam generators, then the logical inference is that older ones would be expected to leak a lot more.  To follow that through, a person would be correct in believing that most nuclear power plants leak like a screen door on a submarine.  If this type of leakage were common, the anti-nukes would be totally right in demanding us to shut them all down.

But, my real concern is with the attitude that you are displaying.  If you can play this off as nothing, then maybe the anti-nukes are wrong - but not about you.  If you find this acceptable, you are in the wrong business.  If you are making tennis balls or growing potatoes, you would be right to expect 1 or 2 out of 20,000 to be junk (probably more), but for the pressure boundary of a nuclear reactor, you expect exactly 20,000 out of 20,000 to hold.

Not only is this highly unusual for new s/g's, it is highly unusual for all s/g's.  This isn't a catastrophe, but it isn't just another day at the office either.  Something failed that was absolutely not supposed to fail, the plant and its operators reacted as they should, the leak was contained, nobody is harmed, it can be fixed ... but it is still a failure and it is not acceptable.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: RDTroja on Feb 03, 2012, 12:53
I am at a total loss to understand that statement.

If you expect the world to believe that 30 gpm is to be expected from brand new steam generators, then the logical inference is that older ones would be expected to leak a lot more.  To follow that through, a person would be correct in believing that most nuclear power plants leak like a screen door on a submarine.  If this type of leakage were common, the anti-nukes would be totally right in demanding us to shut them all down.

But, my real concern is with the attitude that you are displaying.  If you can play this off as nothing, then maybe the anti-nukes are wrong - but not about you.  If you find this acceptable, you are in the wrong business.  If you are making tennis balls or growing potatoes, you would be right to expect 1 or 2 out of 20,000 to be junk (probably more), but for the pressure boundary of a nuclear reactor, you expect exactly 20,000 out of 20,000 to hold.

Not only is this highly unusual for new s/g's, it is highly unusual for all s/g's.  This isn't a catastrophe, but it isn't just another day at the office either.  Something failed that was absolutely not supposed to fail, the plant and its operators reacted as they should, the leak was contained, nobody is harmed, it can be fixed ... but it is still a failure and it is not acceptable.

Apparently credibility is not as important as defending his very rosy image of the plant he works in. People like that give us all a black eye and chip away at our own credibility just by association.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: dirac on Feb 03, 2012, 10:40
Not common at all. Incorrect. And 30 GPM is NOT a small leak.

Leak was 80 gallons per day (.065 gpm) and a rate of change of 30 gallons per hour.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on Feb 03, 2012, 11:27
I am glad to know that the Master-Lee employee who fell into the U2 refueling cavity is OK and should have no long term effects from the incident.

Do I have to log the water wings in the FME log?  :P
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Fermi2 on Feb 03, 2012, 11:40
Leak was 80 gallons per day (.065 gpm) and a rate of change of 30 gallons per hour.

Above the EPRI Limit for greater than Minor leakage and requires a Shutdown to less than 50% power within 60 minutes and be in Hotshutdown within the following 2 hours.

1. Reduce power to less than or equal to 50% power
within one hour and be in Mode 3 within the next 2
hours (total of 3 hrs).
2. Monitor radiation monitor readings every 15 min
and perform Appendix A.
3. Coordinate with Chemistry to identify leaking SG,
quantify leakage and determine leakage rate-ofchange.
4. Initiate actions to minimize spread of
contamination.
5. Evaluate need for additional resources in the
following areas: Operations, Chemistry, Rad
Protection, water processing, makeup water.


AND the Operations Staff decided it was bad enough they entered their SG Tube Rupture EOP which isn't something the NRC takes miildly.

Hardly a "minor" tube leak.

See the point?
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on Feb 03, 2012, 11:46
More than 800 tubes showed a 10 percent thinning in the tube wall, officials said. 69 others had at least 20 percent thinning. And two tubes needed to be plugged and taken out of service because a third of the wall was worn away.

With that much wear this soon, I'm thinking water chemistry or bad tube metallurgy at MHI...
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Already Gone on Feb 03, 2012, 12:03
Leak was 80 gallons per day (.065 gpm) and a rate of change of 30 gallons per hour.

Well, that changes the dynamic a bit.  .065 gpm vs. 30 gpm makes the leak rate lower than a tube rupture.  But, it is significantly worse than what you would expect on the first cycle.  Either one tube was on its way to a failure, or many of them were rapidly deteriorating. 
Combined with the tube wall thinning noted at Unit 2, this indicates a real problem.  I don't think the water chemistry could be the cause unless somebody was radioing the samples or ignoring the indications.  There had to be some contamination that was undetected or else it was a manufacturing defect.

Mitsubishi is going to blame the chemistry.  SONGS is going to blame the materials.  Time will tell who is right.

Still, it isn't something you should take in stride.  A primary to secondary leak that puts the unit at -15MW instead of full power is definitely not common.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: SloGlo on Feb 03, 2012, 01:27

Mitsubishi is going to blame the chemistry.  SONGS is going to blame the materials.  Time will tell who is right.
maybe m.h.i. didn't due things quite right in japan for it's n stamp.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: dirac on Feb 03, 2012, 06:42
See the point?

Never said there wasn't one. Just correcting the facts. 30 gpm and 30 gpd is a big difference and paints a different story.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on Feb 03, 2012, 07:05
Never said there wasn't one. Just correcting the facts. 30 gpm and 30 gpd is a big difference and paints a different story.

But any guess as to root cause?
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Nuke of the North on Feb 03, 2012, 09:39
Not tube rupture.  Tube leak.  Very small.  Common in 1st cycle after replacement.  20,000 tubes in the unit.  Expect 1 or 2....................

T'is but a scratch...

Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Brett LaVigne on Feb 04, 2012, 02:51
Not tube rupture.  Tube leak.  Very small.  Common in 1st cycle after replacement.  20,000 tubes in the unit.  Expect 1 or 2....................

1 or 2 or 900...something like that!

Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: MeterSwangin on Feb 04, 2012, 09:51
Not common at all. Incorrect. And 30 GPM is NOT a small leak.

You are misinformed.  Not 30 gpm.  80 gpd.  Very small.  See OE on replacement SGs for commonality.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: MeterSwangin on Feb 04, 2012, 09:55
But any guess as to root cause?

Eddy current testing 80% complete on Unit 2 (unit in RVH outage.)   Starts next week in U3 (tube leak unit.)  Much too early for conclusions.....although that appears to not dissuade media or some listers.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Fermi2 on Feb 04, 2012, 10:32
You are misinformed.  Not 30 gpm.  80 gpd.  Very small.  See OE on replacement SGs for commonality.

NOT very small. Large enough to cause a REQUIRED shutdown AND an entry into the EOPs.
I've checked OE and guess what, you're wrong. My source is the NRC event reports. I checked SG replacements against required shutdowns and trips. Found EXACTLY zero. Flat out you're wrong and an idiot.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Already Gone on Feb 04, 2012, 11:23
You are misinformed.  Not 30 gpm.  80 gpd.  Very small.  See OE on replacement SGs for commonality.
"The amount of wear that we are seeing on these tubes is unusual for a new steam generator," said Nuclear Regulatory Commission spokesman Victor Dricks.

And that is in reference to the unit that is NOT leaking.  So, how can the leaking one be common?

Here is a little hint for ya -- NEW Steam Generators leak LESS than OLD Steam Generators.  That is the reason for buying NEW Steam Generators in the first place.  How much simpler does that concept have to be before you will understand it?
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: OldHP on Feb 05, 2012, 01:08
Quote from: Already Gone on Yesterday at 23:23
Here is a little hint for ya -- NEW Steam Generators should leak LESS than OLD Steam Generators.  That is the reason for buying NEW Steam Generators in the first place.


Unless they are Westinghouse Model D-2/D-3 (or maybe? designed like them)!  The reported leak rate sounds like the leaks that occured in the D-2/3's due to no baffles in the secondary return lines.  Constant shaking resulting in heavy wear and eventual rupture at an upper support plate.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: tr on Feb 05, 2012, 01:31
NOT very small. Large enough to cause a REQUIRED shutdown AND an entry into the EOPs.
I've checked OE and guess what, you're wrong. My source is the NRC event reports. I checked SG replacements against required shutdowns and trips. Found EXACTLY zero. Flat out you're wrong and an idiot.
Could the EOP entry have been needed to allow performing the steps to isolate the SG, as it took place after the trip?

My understanding is that pretty much every SG, at every plant, is inspected each outage.  This includes the pre-service inspection of replacement SGs.  The expectation is ALWAYS that an SG can run the full cycle without leaks or failures (which is why tubes that have so much wear that they could possibly fail are plugged prior to cycle startup).

This was a significant leak (obviously, they had to shut down), but below the 400+ gpm you would get in an actual tube rupture.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Already Gone on Feb 05, 2012, 12:32
Isolation of a S/G in a commercial nuke like SONGS requires that the unit be cooled down and de-pressurized below the relief valve setpoints.  You can do that by dragging and venting steam from the unaffected S/G while the leaking one is taken out of service.  Shutting the MSIV, feedwater isolations, blowdown isolations and blocking the safety valves is about all you can do to isolate it.  From there, you have to go to cold shutdown in order to drain it as there is no way to isolate it from the reactor.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Starkist on Feb 05, 2012, 01:54
quick question, arent these things hydro'd before installation???
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Higgs on Feb 05, 2012, 02:23
quick question, arent these things hydro'd before installation???

That does nothing to predict tube wastage.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: tr on Feb 05, 2012, 03:29
So,it seems like any claim that the SG was "isolated" upon discovery of the tube failure was BS.
Not true.  "Isolation" really refers to isolating it from the outside environment (no steam or water releases from the affected SG), thus stopping any radioactive releases to the environment.   That happens once the steam isolation valve is closed, steam generator blowdown is isolated, and SG pressure is low enough that any open steam safety valves re-close.

Also, the NRC is being quoted as saying St. Lucie found similar tube thinning in their replacement SGs.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: hamsamich on Feb 05, 2012, 04:36
And I thought all the SGRs were over!!   ???
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on Feb 05, 2012, 05:09
Different plants, different S/G manufacturers....putting on my RootCauseWorker.com hat has me thinking this is the next Inconel-600 issue of the 21st century!
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Starkist on Feb 05, 2012, 06:58
That does nothing to predict tube wastage.

I am under the impression these were leaking from the get go?

Different plants, different S/G manufacturers....putting on my RootCauseWorker.com hat has me thinking this is the next Inconel-600 issue of the 21st century!

They should all be forced to use alloy 690! :p

Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: tr on Feb 05, 2012, 07:33
I am under the impression these were leaking from the get go?
Not true
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Starkist on Feb 06, 2012, 10:11
Not true

The more I look at it the more confused I become lol.

"The amount of wear that we are seeing on these tubes is unusual for a new steam generator," said Nuclear Regulatory Commission spokesman Victor Dricks.

 So its post install damage then?  Wall thinning is indicative of chemistry problems, no? Cant imagine inconel irroding like that. 
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: GLW on Feb 06, 2012, 10:38
The more I look at it the more confused I become lol.

"The amount of wear that we are seeing on these tubes is unusual for a new steam generator," said Nuclear Regulatory Commission spokesman Victor Dricks.

 So its post install damage then?  Wall thinning is indicative of chemistry problems, no? Cant imagine inconel irroding like that.  

Stop crutching and do your research,...

Google steam generator tubes creep aerosol impingement wastage erosion sludge thinning,...

That should get you started,...

There's hundreds of pages of free stuff to read,...

The ANS papers will cost you, but they're very good,...

The best and most responsible answers will not translate well to an internet forum post,...

That or leave the chemistry to the ELT's, ChemTechs and engineers and keep yourself to spinning valves,...

ROFL ROFL :P ;) :) 8)

Yep, we remember,.....
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Higgs on Feb 06, 2012, 01:07
The more I look at it the more confused I become lol.

"The amount of wear that we are seeing on these tubes is unusual for a new steam generator," said Nuclear Regulatory Commission spokesman Victor Dricks.

 So its post install damage then?  Wall thinning is indicative of chemistry problems, no? Cant imagine inconel irroding like that. 

They don't mean new as in just out of the box. They mean new as in installed within the last few cycles.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: tr on Feb 06, 2012, 10:45
The SONGS 3 SGs were basically "new out of the box", in that they were in the middle of their first cycle of operation (probably a year or less old).  The SONGS 2 SGs just finished their first cycle of operation (about 2 years old).

Wall thinning can be chemistry related, erosion related, vibration related, etc. pretty much all recent SGs are made of Inconel 690.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Higgs on Feb 06, 2012, 11:32
The SONGS 3 SGs were basically "new out of the box", in that they were in the middle of their first cycle of operation (probably a year or less old).  The SONGS 2 SGs just finished their first cycle of operation (about 2 years old).

Wall thinning can be chemistry related, erosion related, vibration related, etc. pretty much all recent SGs are made of Inconel 690.

Gotcha, thanks. I meant that as just installed/first start up..., since he was wondering why this wasn't caught on a hydro.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: OldHP on Feb 07, 2012, 12:35
Gotcha, thanks. I meant that as just installed/first start up..., since he was wondering why this wasn't caught on a hydro. 

They probably passed hydro with no problems.  Unfortunately, hydrostatic testing does not indicate thinning (sometimes from over rolling in, particularly at the top of, the tube sheet) or other weak spots.  Nor can it detect the wear in operation, again the problem with the D-2/3's.  Until they release the location of the wear, all is spectulation.  Even then, a lot of work will go into pinpointing the exact cause.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on Feb 07, 2012, 12:38
Stop crutching and do your research,...

Google steam generator tubes creep aerosol impingement wastage erosion sludge thinning,...


One to add to the list : "inconel 690" hydrogen

http://www.ecampus.com/hydrogen-effects-materials-behavior/bk/9780873395014 (http://www.ecampus.com/hydrogen-effects-materials-behavior/bk/9780873395014)
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Starkist on Feb 07, 2012, 05:34
One to add to the list : "inconel 690" hydrogen

http://www.ecampus.com/hydrogen-effects-materials-behavior/bk/9780873395014 (http://www.ecampus.com/hydrogen-effects-materials-behavior/bk/9780873395014)

NRC.gov needs updating

http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/fact-sheets/steam-gen.html
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on Feb 07, 2012, 09:38
page 1230 has an interesting bit of data on Pb and its effects on 690:

http://iweb.tms.org/NM/environdegXII/1229.pdf (http://iweb.tms.org/NM/environdegXII/1229.pdf)
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: nmaguire on Feb 14, 2012, 04:57
I see they moved the scheduled startup back to 2/25.  Is that realistic?  Anyone have a guess?
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: MeterSwangin on Feb 15, 2012, 10:16
I see they moved the scheduled startup back to 2/25.  Is that realistic?  Anyone have a guess?

Unit 2 will restart 3/12.  Unit 3 on 3/25 based on early tube plugging estimates.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on Feb 16, 2012, 11:51
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/15/utilities-operations-sce-songs-idUSL2E8DFMM620120215?feedType=RSS&feedName=utilitiesSector&rpc=43 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/15/utilities-operations-sce-songs-idUSL2E8DFMM620120215?feedType=RSS&feedName=utilitiesSector&rpc=43)

Interesting how Fort Calhoun's S/G's, also manufactured by MHI, do NOT have accelerated wear...
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: MeterSwangin on Feb 16, 2012, 09:55
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/15/utilities-operations-sce-songs-idUSL2E8DFMM620120215?feedType=RSS&feedName=utilitiesSector&rpc=43 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/15/utilities-operations-sce-songs-idUSL2E8DFMM620120215?feedType=RSS&feedName=utilitiesSector&rpc=43)

Interesting how Fort Calhoun's S/G's, also manufactured by MHI, do NOT have accelerated wear...

Calhouns SGs MUCH smaller.  Seismic design specs not even close.  Apples and Watermelons...........
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Fermi2 on Feb 17, 2012, 08:22
Incorrect, makes no difference. Stop being ignorant.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: matthew.b on Feb 18, 2012, 01:49
I was going to politely ask how the size would relate to erosion or corrosion.

Broadzilla was a bit more blunt....  but yeah, what he said.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Fermi2 on Feb 18, 2012, 10:37
Same with Seismic specs.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: matthew.b on Feb 18, 2012, 03:50
Same with Seismic specs.

You mean that putting thicker metal and/or more supports doesn't make it corrode through faster?
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Fermi2 on Feb 18, 2012, 04:00
LOL Correct! Though usually you don't make something more seismic by thicker supports or metal.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: MeterSwangin on Feb 18, 2012, 08:00
You mean that putting thicker metal and/or more supports doesn't make it corrode through faster?

Not corrosion,friend. Inconnel 690 is good stuff.   

Wear.  Flow induced vibration and resulting wear.  Design issues according to SG gurus.

Repairs complete on Unit 2, so headed back up soon.   Unit 3 just getting started...took Areva some time to mobilize entire new team.  More extensive plugging planned on Unit 3, then all good to run.  Costs being captured for recovery efforts with Mitsubishi.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: MeterSwangin on Feb 18, 2012, 08:23
I was going to politely ask how the size would relate to erosion or corrosion.

Broadzilla was a bit more blunt....  but yeah, what he said.

Sigh.  You guys ever cover Areva for a few days?  Ever SEE a SG?  Talk for a few hours while they run probes with the engineers on the headphones and you learn.  Why the sarcasm?  Mean people.

High seismic + very large SG (2 loop 1150 MW CE) = lots more stabilizers, retaining bars, retainers, egg crates to immobilize longer tubes.  Smaller 4 loop SGs in Nebraska get much less steel.

Tube issues not due to corrosion.  Problem is wear at certain very specific points where civil structures are rubbing tubes.  Design issue - engrs talk about being related to very large SGs, lots of retainers, massive flow.  Hard to model perfectly, so something vibrates a little, tubes rub, wear in spots.  Not at all unusual, although disappointing. 

Plug affected tubes.  Pass costs back to Mitsubishi.  Eddy current test again next outage to verify nothing else rubbing.  Biggest headache from the whole experience:  list sarcasm.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Fermi2 on Feb 18, 2012, 08:31
Sigh.  You guys ever cover Areva for a few days?  Ever SEE a SG?  Talk for a few hours while they run probes with the engineers on the headphones and you learn.  Why the sarcasm?  Mean people.

High seismic + very large SG (2 loop 1150 MW CE) = lots more stabilizers, retaining bars, retainers, egg crates to immobilize longer tubes.  Smaller 4 loop SGs in Nebraska get much less steel.

Tube issues not due to corrosion.  Problem is wear at certain very specific points where civil structures are rubbing tubes.  Design issue - engrs talk about being related to very large SGs, lots of retainers, massive flow.  Hard to model perfectly, so something vibrates a little, tubes rub, wear in spots.  Not at all unusual, although disappointing. 

Plug affected tubes.  Pass costs back to Mitsubishi.  Eddy current test again next outage to verify nothing else rubbing.  Biggest headache from the whole experience:  list sarcasm.

BS
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on Feb 19, 2012, 12:49
Calhouns SGs MUCH smaller.  Seismic design specs not even close.  Apples and Watermelons...........

I can't really blame him for being in denial though, when all 4 horses pulling the Gravy Train are starting to show blood in the road "apples", and there will be no sympathy or extra recovery from the "watermelons" on the PUC (green on the outside, red to their core), considering the DRA's proposal for funding rejection and destaffing seen here:

http://www.dra.ca.gov/NR/rdonlyres/FB745959-0ED8-4302-9E5A-1182E335EB6F/0/ExDRA8NuclearGenerationCostsPublic.pdf (http://www.dra.ca.gov/NR/rdonlyres/FB745959-0ED8-4302-9E5A-1182E335EB6F/0/ExDRA8NuclearGenerationCostsPublic.pdf)

Probably lots of  [decon] work in the D&D of 2021 though!
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Already Gone on Feb 19, 2012, 11:09
Sigh.  You guys ever cover Areva for a few days?  Ever SEE a SG?  Talk for a few hours while they run probes with the engineers on the headphones and you learn.  Why the sarcasm?  Mean people.

High seismic + very large SG (2 loop 1150 MW CE) = lots more stabilizers, retaining bars, retainers, egg crates to immobilize longer tubes.  Smaller 4 loop SGs in Nebraska get much less steel.

Tube issues not due to corrosion.  Problem is wear at certain very specific points where civil structures are rubbing tubes.  Design issue - engrs talk about being related to very large SGs, lots of retainers, massive flow.  Hard to model perfectly, so something vibrates a little, tubes rub, wear in spots.  Not at all unusual, although disappointing. 

Plug affected tubes.  Pass costs back to Mitsubishi.  Eddy current test again next outage to verify nothing else rubbing.  Biggest headache from the whole experience:  list sarcasm.

Did the old S/G's - which were EXACTLY as large as these - leak right after they were installed?
Have bigger S/G's than these leaked right out of the box?

If you bought as new Ford F450 pickup truck, and it blew a head gasket a month off the dealer's lot, would you accept a BS explanation like this one that you seem to be so willing to accept here?  "Oh, it's a big truck so you can't expect it to last ..."  CRAP.

Again: there are only TWO possible reasons why these things are leaking as they are.
1. There was a flaw in the design/and or manufacture, making them damaged goods from the start.
2. They were operated outside their design parameters.

Nobody really wants to hear the excuses that you are parroting here.  If it is so damned difficult to design and build larger boilers so that they don't leak, then you work harder, think smarter, or leave it to the people who know what the hell they are doing! 

This IS NOT a freakin' pickup truck.  It is a nuclear power plant fercryinoutloud!  You really need to wrap your head around the fact that this $h!t is important!!!  So, you "covered Areva for a few days", that hardly makes you an expert, and I don't think there is a Holiday Inn Express anywhere nearby.  But, you don't need to be an expert, or a genius. 
Even a blockheaded HP tech who thinks that watching some other people do work makes him knowlegeable about what they are doing has to understand that excuses are no substitute for performance, and the public will not long tolerate a nuclear plant that operates on the principle that an apology and an excuse is a sufficient substitute for safe and reliable operation.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: tr on Feb 19, 2012, 01:16
Did the old S/G's - which were EXACTLY as large as these - leak right after they were installed?
The detailed design of SGs built 30 year ago is significantly different than modern SGs.  The new SONGS SGs are also probably larger than their original SGs (everyone puts in larger ones during a SG replacement to support power uprates).  In the very early days, I know plants plugged lots of tubes early in SG life.  I seem to remember hearing that some plant had to replace their replacement SGs.  Still no excuse for the SONGS SGs to have problems.

Have bigger S/G's than these leaked right out of the box?
With the possible exception of Palo Verde and the newer Korean units, there are no SGs bigger than these.  For issues like flow induced vibration, items associated with SG size (tube length, number of supports, etc.) matter.

If you bought as new Ford F450 pickup truck, and it blew a head gasket a month off the dealer's lot, would you accept a BS explanation like this one that you seem to be so willing to accept here?  "Oh, it's a big truck so you can't expect it to last ..."  CRAP.
I'm sure SONGS has lawyers putting together the lawsuits against MHI as we debate this.

Again: there are only TWO possible reasons why these things are leaking as they are.
1. There was a flaw in the design/and or manufacture, making them damaged goods from the start.
2. They were operated outside their design parameters.
True.  I'm sure as a part of the acceptance tests, the SGs were verified to be operating within their design parameters, so item 1 it is.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: MeterSwangin on Feb 20, 2012, 10:38

Even a blockheaded HP tech who thinks that watching some other people do work makes him knowlegeable about what they are doing has to understand that excuses are no substitute for performance, and the public will not long tolerate a nuclear plant that operates on the principle that an apology and an excuse is a sufficient substitute for safe and reliable operation.

Have seen no apologies or excuses, sir.  Seeing extensive exams and repairs.  Appears you might consider same.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Already Gone on Feb 21, 2012, 08:58
Are you serious?!?!? You haven't given anything BUT excuses for this since it happened.  The lack of apology seems to be caused by a lack of the ability to admit that this ain't freakin' right!
Extensive exams and repairs are a piss-poor substitute for quality.  Frankly, your attitude that stuff just breaks and we'll fix it is unacceptable.  If the whole nuclear industry operated by that philosophy, there wouldn't BE a nuclear industry anymore.

Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Rennhack on Feb 21, 2012, 02:06
Whooa cowboy.  Lets count to ten and chill out, ok?
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on Mar 15, 2012, 08:35

Feds probe equipment failure at Calif. nuke plant
Associated PressBy MICHAEL R. BLOOD | Associated Press

LOS ANGELES (AP) — A nuclear reactor on the California coast will remain shut down indefinitely while a team of federal inspectors determines why several relatively new tubes became so frail that tests found they could rupture and release radioactive water, a federal official said Thursday.

"This is a significant issue," said Nuclear Regulatory Commission spokeswoman Lara Uselding. "A tube rupture is really the concern. ... That's what we don't want to happen."

Underscoring concern over the test findings, the NRC dispatched a special team to the Unit 3 reactor at the San Onofre Nuclear Generating Station, located about 45 miles north of San Diego. The plant was shut down as a precaution on Jan. 31, after a radioactive water leak in another tube in a massive steam generator. Traces of radiation escaped, but officials say there was no danger to workers or neighbors.

The NRC said Thursday that pressure tests showed three of the metal-alloy generator tubes had become so degraded that they could rupture under some circumstances. Such ruptures can require a plant to shut down, if spewing water reaches 150 gallons a day.

Investigators have been looking into what federal officials call excessive wear found on steam generator tubes in the seaside plant and its twin, Unit 2, which has been off line for maintenance and refueling. In a $670 million overhaul, two huge steam generators, each containing 9,700 tubes, were replaced in Unit 2 in fall 2009 and a year later in Unit 3.

A spokeswoman for the agency that operates the state's wholesale power system, the California Independent System Operator, said the San Diego and Los Angeles areas could see rotating power outages this summer if both reactors remain off-line. The agency is taking steps to prevent those shortages.

"It's all about balancing supply and demand," said ISO spokeswoman Stephanie McCorkle. "You have to have a certain amount of plant (power) generation where the heavily populated areas of California are."

Inside a steam generator, hot, pressurized water flowing through bundles of tubes heats non-radioactive water surrounding them, and the resulting steam is used to turn turbines to make electricity.

According to the NRC, the tubes have an important safety role because they represent one of the primary barriers between the radioactive and non-radioactive sides of the plant. If a tube breaks, there is the potential that radioactivity from the system that pumps water through the reactor could escape into the atmosphere.

"The integrity of steam generator tubes is important because the tubes provide an additional barrier ... to prevent a radioactive steam release," the NRC said in a statement Thursday.

NRC Administrator Elmo E. Collins said in the statement that the agency wants "to make sure we understand the cause of the degraded steam generator tubes and take appropriate actions based on our inspection results."

Uselding said no date has been set to restart Unit 3.

The plant is owned by Southern California Edison, San Diego Gas & Electric and the City of Riverside. Southern California Edison serves nearly 14 million residents with electricity in Central and Southern California.

SCE spokeswoman Jennifer Manfre said the company welcomes the expanded investigation and "we don't put a deadline on safety."

David Lochbaum, director of the nuclear safety project for Union of Concerned Scientists, said the risks from tube leaks are two-fold: When serious, they can drain cooling water from the reactor while elevating the chance radiation could escape.

He said such investigation teams are sent out by the NRC only once or twice a year, highlighting concern within the agency.

While gradual wear in steam generator tubes takes place over time, the rate occurring in some tubes at San Onofre would be expected after many years of use, not in recently installed equipment, he said.


http://news.yahoo.com/feds-probe-equipment-failure-calif-nuke-plant-154052395.html (http://news.yahoo.com/feds-probe-equipment-failure-calif-nuke-plant-154052395.html)
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Fermi2 on Mar 15, 2012, 08:54
Wait isn't this the leak that Meter Swangin swore was normal? I bet the Feds are just probing to see how big a reward they should give to San Onofre!
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: GLW on Mar 15, 2012, 10:01
Wait isn't this the leak that Meter Swangin swore was normal?...

(http://www.dependablerenegade.com/photos/dr_pix/4ad27628-7f43-4524-9069-55557422d939.jpg)
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: MeterSwangin on Mar 16, 2012, 12:18
Wait isn't this the leak that Meter Swangin swore was normal? I bet the Feds are just probing to see how big a reward they should give to San Onofre!

Normal?  Not Unit 3.   

Unit 2 normal.  Plugged 12 tubes of 9737 each SG.  Ready to start up.

Unit 3:  problem.  Manufacturing defect.  Tubes rubbing.  In situ testing at up to 5000 psi of most suspect tubes failed a few.  Be down for several months.

Proud of the company.  No rush....safety first.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Fermi2 on Mar 16, 2012, 06:14
YOU claimed Unit 3 was normal.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Safety Matt on Mar 16, 2012, 08:30

...so something vibrates a little, tubes rub, wear in spots.  Not at all unusual, although disappointing. 



Normal?  Not Unit 3.   

Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on Mar 16, 2012, 05:01
Guess those tubes shoulda studied harder...

Seven tubes fail test at Calif. San Onofre 3 reactor
 
March 16 | Fri Mar 16, 2012 2:29pm EDT

March 16 (Reuters) - A total of seven steam generator tubes have now failed pressure tests at the 1,080-megawatt San Onofre Unit 3 nuclear reactor, which has been shut since late January due to a small radioactive gas leak, Southern California Edison said


http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/16/utilities-operations-edisoninternational-idUSL2E8EGAYX20120316 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/16/utilities-operations-edisoninternational-idUSL2E8EGAYX20120316)
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Frankie Love on Mar 16, 2012, 07:51
Who made the SG's?
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: MeterSwangin on Mar 16, 2012, 08:18
Who made the SG's?

Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, Kobe Japan.

Unit 3 SGs had a big problem...channelheads "delaminated" when SGs undergoing final pressure testing.  MHI cut off the channelheads to fix, then welded SGs back together.  Appears tube bundles tweaked a bit in the process.  Few tubes now wearing funny.

Worried looking Japanese joined by worried looking Waterford folks.  Waterford replacement SGs delaminated with cut/weld repair by different Mfr.

Addressing it the nuke way:  slow,deliberate, safety first, full disclosure.  "No timeline on safety."  Davis-Besse lesson...........
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: MeterSwangin on Mar 16, 2012, 08:23
YOU claimed Unit 3 was normal.

We were told some tube wear was normal for new replacement SGs.  Turns out, after 6 weeks of testing, this tube wear aint normal at all.

AREVA guys tell me lots more testing planned.  Be nice and I'll keep you posted.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Fermi2 on Mar 16, 2012, 08:26
We were told some tube wear was normal for new replacement SGs.  Turns out, after 6 weeks of testing, this tube wear aint normal at all.

AREVA guys tell me lots more testing planned.  Be nice and I'll keep you posted.

I hate saying it but you are an ID  10   T
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: MeterSwangin on Mar 16, 2012, 08:35
I hate saying it but you are an ID  10   T

Not nice.  You lose.

Required content:  Smear, frisk, and scram.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: RDTroja on Mar 16, 2012, 09:32
Not nice.  You lose.

Required content:  Smear, frisk, and scram.

If 'nice' was determining the outcome of any contest, you lost a long time ago.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: RDTroja on Mar 16, 2012, 09:33
I hate saying it but you are an ID  10   T

Come on... you didn't even mildly dislike saying that.  ;)
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: tr on Mar 17, 2012, 12:24
Unit 2 normal.  Plugged 12 tubes of 9737 each SG.  Ready to start up.
Not true (see story below). Unit 2 plugged 192 tubes.  Per Edison spokeswoman "But neither reactor will be restarted until all testing and assessments have been completed."

http://sciencedude.ocregister.com/2012/03/16/troubled-san-onofre-reactor-tubes-fail-tests/169249/
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Safety Matt on Mar 17, 2012, 12:27
Not true (see story below). Unit 2 plugged 192 tubes.  Per Edison spokeswoman "But neither reactor will be restarted until all testing and assessments have been completed."

http://sciencedude.ocregister.com/2012/03/16/troubled-san-onofre-reactor-tubes-fail-tests/169249/

and the MS house of cards continues to crumble...
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: OldHP on Mar 17, 2012, 12:50
Not true (see story below). Unit 2 plugged 192 tubes.  Per Edison spokeswoman "But neither reactor will be restarted until all testing and assessments have been completed."

http://sciencedude.ocregister.com/2012/03/16/troubled-san-onofre-reactor-tubes-fail-tests/169249/

You might want to check the validity of your quoted source before you throw it out!

"One tube tested, it did not fail"!  "192 tubes plugged"!  The 'sciencedude' doesn't seem to understand WTFHITA!
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: tr on Mar 17, 2012, 01:28
You might want to check the validity of your quoted source before you throw it out!

"One tube tested, it did not fail"!  "192 tubes plugged"!  The 'sciencedude' doesn't seem to understand WTFHITA!
Quote was in reference to SONGS 2, where only one tube was required to be "in-situ" hydro tested.  The 192 plugged tubes statement was also in reference to SONGS 2 (some were probably plugged due to meeting the plugging criteria, some as a preventative measure).  Based on discussions with SG engineering people I know at SONGS, sciencedude is correct.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Fermi2 on Mar 17, 2012, 07:20
Come on... you didn't even mildly dislike saying that.  ;)

Ok true. I admit I slept like a baby :)
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: jams723 on Mar 17, 2012, 10:52
Ok true. I admit I slept like a baby :)

Woke up every two hours and cried?
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Fermi2 on Mar 17, 2012, 11:24
Woke up every two hours and cried?


I'm old. Woke up every 2 hours to pee!
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: MeterSwangin on Mar 17, 2012, 04:23
One tube in situ tested Unit 2.  Did not fail.  Plugged 12 tubes with indications.  Plugged more with no problems to take out of service near suspected source of rubbing...a small retainer bar.

Several tubes tested Unit 3.  Had greater than 90% thru-wall wear so were expected to fail.  Did fail.  Triggers NRC notice and augmented inspections.

Expecting to start Unit 2 for summer must-run period.  News articles say western U.S. might have serious power shortage issues this summer as economy heats up..............
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Fermi2 on Mar 17, 2012, 04:33
But hey, all that's normal right?
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: MeterSwangin on Mar 17, 2012, 05:18
But hey, all that's normal right?

Interested in topic, or just attack troll?   Be nice.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on Mar 17, 2012, 05:23
Required content:  Smear, frisk, and scram.

Actually, the Required is more like: Scram (due to 82 gpd leakrate), Mode 6, open up the manways, and then smear and frisk. Partial credit ;)
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Fermi2 on Mar 17, 2012, 06:01
Interested in topic, or just attack troll?   Be nice.

ID 10 Ts like you offend me.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Nuclear NASCAR on Mar 17, 2012, 06:22
4. Please learn to be respectful, tolerate and support each other.  NukeWorker.com's goal is to help others, not see how many people we can annoy. Do not initiate arguments or tension. This will only cause the triggering of other members and make this site less professional.

Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Nuke of the North on Mar 18, 2012, 03:26
Lots of talk about welding, cutting, delamination, etc so far. But yet no word about the real Root Cause(s) at work here. What were the Management, Organization, Program, and Process factors involved that led to this debacle?

This kind of stuff happens far too frequently at SONGS to be dismissed as mere coincidence and bad-luck, or blamed on "isolated" manufacturing defects.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on Mar 18, 2012, 03:39
Lots of talk about welding, cutting, delamination, etc so far. But yet no word about the real Root Cause(s) at work here. What were the Management, Organization, Program, and Process factors involved that led to this debacle?

This kind of stuff happens far too frequently at SONGS to be dismissed as mere coincidence and bad-luck, or blamed on "isolated" manufacturing defects.

Remember the turbine replacement debacle? There's a starter....

In other words, not blaming folks that love the plant, but the underlying get-by philosophy
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: MeterSwangin on Mar 18, 2012, 08:13
the underlying get-by philosophy

Not sure what is behind this criticism.  Plant is considered very conservative, high cost, risk-adverse.  Opposite of "get by."

Can offer one fact (rather than uninformed opinion:)  this week there was a big sitewide celebration.  NRC closed the last cross cutter.  NRC Column 1.

CNO Pete always says "proud but not satisfied."   Good thing he and the NRC aren't subject to negativity here.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Longtime Nuke on Mar 18, 2012, 08:31
San Onofre is one of my favorite outage stops.  Treat contractors fairly, keep folks informed, run safe outages, and spare little expense.  Love the free camping onsite.  RP treats us right.

One wonders if some here criticize for sport, and/or have not been onsite in many years....if ever.

This steam generator problem on Unit 3 is a shame, but I have no doubt it will be carefully and properly managed to successful conclusion.  All the signs are there if one looks.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Nuke of the North on Mar 18, 2012, 09:16
, but I have no doubt it will be carefully and properly managed to successful conclusion.

Based on what evidence?

Hydro's mention of the Turbine replacement project is quite apropos. Eeerily similar circumstances. Multi-hundreds-of-millions spent to upgrade large, critical pieces of plant equipment. The projects themselves get so complex they spin off into the stratosphere - plagued by numerous time and dollar consuming snafu's and various "vendor problems". Finally, the newly installed, brand spanking new pieces of equipment basically self destruct under mysterious circumstances only a tiny fraction of the way into their expected lifetimes (and both on U3 for that matter).

Lets face it. SONGS has a track record of not keeping their expensive, shiny new toys out of harm's way.

Coincidence? Bad Luck? Conspiracy? Ancient Voodoo Curse? Or something more tangible like poor processes or oversight?

You guys tell me...
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: OldHP on Mar 18, 2012, 10:46
Hydro's mention of the Turbine replacement project is quite apropos. Eeerily similar circumstances. Multi-hundreds-of-millions spent to upgrade large, critical pieces of plant equipment.

Lets face it. SONGS has a track record of not keeping their expensive, shiny new toys out of harm's way.

Coincidence? Bad Luck? Conspiracy? Ancient Voodoo Curse? Or something more tangible like poor processes or oversight? 

Maybe 'lowest bidder' along with the tangibles?  Look back to Unit 1!
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Fermi2 on Mar 19, 2012, 07:50
Not sure what is behind this criticism.  Plant is considered very conservative, high cost, risk-adverse.  Opposite of "get by."

Can offer one fact (rather than uninformed opinion:)  this week there was a big sitewide celebration.  NRC closed the last cross cutter.  NRC Column 1.

CNO Pete always says "proud but not satisfied."   Good thing he and the NRC aren't subject to negativity here.


Yet you, an employee of that facility felt an event that is a precursor to a Steam Generator Tube Rupture is business as usual and normal.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Frankie Love on Mar 19, 2012, 11:36
Quote
Unit 3 SGs had a big problem...channelheads "delaminated" when SGs undergoing final pressure testing.  MHI cut off the channelheads to fix, then welded SGs back together.  Appears tube bundles tweaked a bit in the process.  Few tubes now wearing funny.


A couple of questions regarding the quote...could you explain what "delaminated" means. As an ex circle-bar-W FOSAR dude, I don't remember that one. Second, wouldn't you have a huge problem with the cutting off and welding of the channelhead section? From an engineering standpoint I can see why they were "tweaked".

Thanks!
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: MeterSwangin on Mar 19, 2012, 08:34
A couple of questions regarding the quote...could you explain what "delaminated" means. As an ex circle-bar-W FOSAR dude, I don't remember that one. Second, wouldn't you have a huge problem with the cutting off and welding of the channelhead section? From an engineering standpoint I can see why they were "tweaked".

Thanks!

Gets a little over my head, but I can tell you what we were told/shown.   Pictures showed that, after final pressure testing, the U3 SGs had a problem in the primary channelheads.  Divider plate had leaned over, causing the stainless liner inside to peel up some.  "Delaminated," I guess.  Repair took months in Japan.

AREVA guys I hang out with say heat exchangers can't be unbolted for repairs...all welded together.  Thus segmenting and rewelding for major repairs is not unheard of   I guess it will be thoroughly examined now, and fought out in court, whether Mitsubishi screwed up, SCE signed off, or both.

Lots of positives to focus on.  Co had a great year, full bonuses paid.  All NRC cross-cutters closed.  Both units planned up for summer.  Makes work interesting.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: MeterSwangin on Mar 19, 2012, 08:38

Yet you, an employee of that facility felt an event that is a precursor to a Steam Generator Tube Rupture is business as usual and normal.

There was not a SG tube rupture.

Repeat.  No tube rupture. 

Really.  Lets be civil and discuss facts.  Be nice.

Added Fact:  No tube rupture.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Fermi2 on Mar 19, 2012, 09:27
I said PRECURSOR, you know the type that causes the Ops Staff to enter their rapid shutdown procedure, and trip the reactor and enter their SGTR EOP. I'm discussing facts, in fact I have a much larger awareness than you seem to have, PLUS I am not in denial.
You claimed all was normal and in doing so anyone outside this industry who read your trash probably believes your shoddy standards are OUR shoddy standards. I literally resent having people like you in the Nuclear Industry and here is why, 99% of us have excellent standards and are willing to face facts, the 1% (like you) are enough to put the entire nuclear industry with your low standards and pretend all is well.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: jams723 on Mar 19, 2012, 10:04
There was not a SG tube rupture.

Repeat.  No tube rupture. 

Really.  Lets be civil and discuss facts.  Be nice.

Added Fact:  No tube rupture.

Depends on your EOP... Greater than 1 gallon per minute tube leak after you trip is an entry into the B&W Tube Rupture EOP..... therefore if it is classified ..... It is so.... But I do not know what SONGS procedure says......
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: RDTroja on Mar 20, 2012, 07:53
I said PRECURSOR, you know the type that causes the Ops Staff to enter their rapid shutdown procedure, and trip the reactor and enter their SGTR EOP. I'm discussing facts, in fact I have a much larger awareness than you seem to have, PLUS I am not in denial.
You claimed all was normal and in doing so anyone outside this industry who read your trash probably believes your shoddy standards are OUR shoddy standards. I literally resent having people like you in the Nuclear Industry and here is why, 99% of us have excellent standards and are willing to face facts, the 1% (like you) are enough to put the entire nuclear industry with your low standards and pretend all is well.

Some people require the use of simpler words.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Already Gone on Mar 20, 2012, 08:25
I said PRECURSOR, you know the type that causes the Ops Staff to enter their rapid shutdown procedure, and trip the reactor and enter their SGTR EOP. I'm discussing facts, in fact I have a much larger awareness than you seem to have, PLUS I am not in denial.
You claimed all was normal and in doing so anyone outside this industry who read your trash probably believes your shoddy standards are OUR shoddy standards. I literally resent having people like you in the Nuclear Industry and here is why, 99% of us have excellent standards and are willing to face facts, the 1% (like you) are enough to put the entire nuclear industry with your low standards and pretend all is well.

Very well put.
I have a lot of heartburn over MS spewing slogans about how they are proceeding as usual with safety as their highest priority.  If safety is their highest priority, then all their other priorities must be ridiculously low. 
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: MeterSwangin on Mar 20, 2012, 09:31
I literally resent....... 

Resentment ignored.  Rising above.  Try meds.

Required content:  Both units still shut down today while SG issues carefully sorted out.  Safety standards rants from maladjusted lurkers notwithstanding.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Rennhack on Mar 21, 2012, 02:15
 [sos]
Whooa cowboy.  Lets count to ten and chill out, ok?
4. Please learn to be respectful, tolerate and support each other.  NukeWorker.com's goal is to help others, not see how many people we can annoy. Do not initiate arguments or tension. This will only cause the triggering of other members and make this site less professional.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: tr on Mar 27, 2012, 10:52
NRC issues Confirmatory Action letter

http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/news/2012/12-011.iv.pdf

"...
This Confirmatory Action Letter (CAL) confirms that SONGS Unit 2 will not enter Mode 2, and SONGS Unit 3 will not enter Mode 4 (as defined in the technical specifications), until the NRC has completed its review of your actions listed below. The permission to resume power operations will be formally communicated to you in written correspondence.

Actions for Unit 2

1. Southern California Edison Company (SCE) will determine the causes of the tube-to-tube interactions that resulted in steam generator tube wear in Unit 3, and will implement actions to prevent loss of integrity due to these causes in the Unit 2 steam generator tubes. SCE will establish a protocol of inspections and/or operational limits for Unit 2, including plans for a mid-cycle shutdown for further inspections.

2. Prior to entry of Unit 2 into Mode 2, SCE will submit to the NRC in writing the results of your assessment of Unit 2 steam generators, the protocol of inspections and/or operational limits, including schedule dates for a mid-cycle shutdown for further inspections, and the basis for SCE’s conclusion that there is reasonable assurance, as required by NRC regulations, that the unit will operate safely.

Actions for Unit 3

3. SCE will complete in-situ pressure testing of tubes with potentially significant wear indications in accordance with the Electric Power Research Institute (EPRI) Steam Generator In-situ Pressure Test Guidelines and will plug tubes in accordance with those guidelines.

4. SCE will plug all tubes with wear indications in excess of your Steam Generator Program Requirements (SGPR) and EPRI guidelines as well as perform preventive plugging or take other corrective actions to address retainer bar-related tube wear in Unit 3.

5. SCE will determine the causes of tube-to-tube interaction and implement actions to prevent recurrence of loss of integrity in the Unit 3 steam generator tubes while operating.

6. SCE will establish a protocol of inspections and/or operational limits for Unit 3, including plans for a mid-cycle shutdown for inspections. The protocol is intended to minimize the progression of tube wear, and ensure that tube wear will not progress to the point of
degradation that could cause tubes not to meet leakage and structural strength test criteria.

7. Prior to entry of Unit 3 into Mode 4, SCE will submit to the NRC in writing the results of your assessment of Unit 3 steam generators, the protocol of inspections and/or operational limits, including schedule dates for a mid-cycle shutdown for further inspections, and the basis for SCE’s conclusion that there is a reasonable assurance, as required by NRC regulations, that the unit will operate safely."
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: RDTroja on Mar 28, 2012, 08:22
I can't wait to hear how getting the keys taken away is business as usual, too.

Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Fermi2 on Mar 28, 2012, 01:30
This is just more business as usual expected stuff right?
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: SloGlo on Mar 28, 2012, 04:05
I can't wait to hear how getting the keys taken away is business as usual, too.


it's just using valet parking.... very business as usual in socal. ;)
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: btkeele on Mar 29, 2012, 04:31
is this nukeworker or anti-nukeworker?  It seems from the comments of a few here that you are almost gloating in the
wake of the issues going on here at SONGS.  I'm confused as to why that is?  Is it just a personal conflict with MS or is there
a reason?  Have you worked here?  Lately?  I don't hear the same scorn for the issues at Crystal River, or other sites...so what is
it about Songs that has you in this mood?
FYI:  having followed this thread and mostly ignoring it because of the feud and mis-information being bantered about, the letter
that was issued by the NRC to Songs pretty much followed the exact plan the utility put out weeks ago for recovery...nothing new.

Barry
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Fermi2 on Mar 29, 2012, 04:45
I'm Pro Nuclear Safety and guys like Meter Swangin make me ill. It's that simple.

As for the other post, you mean as told to SCE weeks ago...
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Nuke of the North on Mar 29, 2012, 06:47
Problem Solved!

Friends of the Earth and Barbara Boxer have completed their Root Cause Analysis.

Blame it on Design Changes/Engineers - the perpetual whippings boys at SONGS

Quote
Fairewinds review of the Edison/MHI report
determined that the four most critical changes
likely to be a cause of the current tube leaks at San
Onofre 2 and 3 are:

1. alloy was changed,
2. Reactor flow rate was changed,
3. More steam generator tubes were
added, and
4. Modifications were made to the
“egg crate” that holds the tubes
separate in Unit 2 and Unit 3.



Fairewinds believes that vibration within the
tubes in both Unit 2 and Unit 3 were due to the simultaneous implementation of untested
manufacturing and design changes made by the Edison/MHI to the replacement steam
generators.


While Edison and San Onofre consider these steam generator replacements at San
Onofre as a like-for-like replacement, such a distinction is actually part of a procedure that
San Onofre developed in order to avoid the requisite NRC oversight of a steam generator
replacement process. Several years prior to the design and installation of the new San
Onofre steam generators, Edison/San Onofre completed the 10CFR50.59 review process
of replacement steam generators. The Edison/San Onofre 10CFR50.59 review process
of the replacement steam generators enabled Edison/San Onofre to have a so-called prereview,
so that the design and manufacture of the replacement steam generators at San
Onofre did not receive any actual NRC oversight or technical review. The San Onofre
application of the 10CFR50.59 review portrayed the steam generator replacement project
as a like-for-like replacement1 that therefore would not require a thorough NRC review
and approval process.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2012/03/san-onofre-nuclear-plant-report.html

http://libcloud.s3.amazonaws.com/93/fa/7/1255/Steam_Generator_Failures_at_San_Onofre.pdf
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: RDTroja on Mar 30, 2012, 07:58
is this nukeworker or anti-nukeworker?  It seems from the comments of a few here that you are almost gloating in the
wake of the issues going on here at SONGS.  I'm confused as to why that is?  Is it just a personal conflict with MS or is there
a reason?  Have you worked here?  Lately?  I don't hear the same scorn for the issues at Crystal River, or other sites...so what is
it about Songs that has you in this mood?
FYI:  having followed this thread and mostly ignoring it because of the feud and mis-information being bantered about, the letter
that was issued by the NRC to Songs pretty much followed the exact plan the utility put out weeks ago for recovery...nothing new.

Barry

Being pro-nuclear does not mean supporting bad practices or denying problems that really exist. Hiding issues or brushing them of as 'Business as Usual' fuels the anti-nuke argument that nuclear power plants can't be operated safely. Owning problems and fixing them is vital if the industry is going to survive.

We don't need people to pretend that problems as potentially severe as this one are just routine. Particularly people that work at the plant that has the problem.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: btkeele on Mar 30, 2012, 08:29
I agree, so show me in this case where SCE has done any of this...once they had the tube leak in U3, they shut it down and started looking for answers...they immediately expanded scope to U2...from where I sit they have made nothing but ultra-conservative decisions and have been taking their time in developing a recovery plan while at the same time trying to determine the cause.
Don't take 1 anonymous internet personalities opinions and think for a second that it reflects the plant operators plans.
I'm just asking that we wait for the process to play out before jumping to conclusions.

and a little support would be nice...
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: GLW on Mar 30, 2012, 08:30
is this nukeworker or anti-nukeworker?  It seems from the comments of a few here that you are almost gloating in the
wake of the issues going on here at SONGS.  I'm confused as to why that is?  Is it just a personal conflict with MS or is there
a reason?  Have you worked here?  Lately?  I don't hear the same scorn for the issues at Crystal River, or other sites...so what is
it about Songs that has you in this mood?
FYI:  having followed this thread and mostly ignoring it because of the feud and mis-information being bantered about, the letter
that was issued by the NRC to Songs pretty much followed the exact plan the utility put out weeks ago for recovery...nothing new.

Barry

because it is a rare thing for users from those other sites to come to a public forum with a "remain calm, all is well, things are not as they appear" mantra,...

those users have enough sense to let those persons whose job it is to convey information to the general public let those persons handle communicating with the general public and keep their own focus on what they do within the organization,...

not because of "truth" but because very few people in a crew as large as a nuclear utility have all the information they need to communicate effectively and comprehensively,...

kicking back with Crew A looking at Thing B on Monitor #4 is not a comprehensive understanding of the whole scenario, it is also why the tank driver is not the tank commander,...

it also leaves the user in a position where he pretty dam well better toe the company line on a public forum, I can assure you the user has a lot less comprehensive data at his disposal than the decision makers in that users organization,...

a poor, incorrectly substantiated public critique of your employers processes is a valid cause for dismissal and a disservice to the industry,...

in short, the user steps in front of the bleachers wearing the team uniform, he has to be a cheerleader, if he doesn't and he is wrong on the details he has no knowledge of (and he will be), he's toast,...and he should be,....

okay,...that's all the answer I have for your question about SONGS posters to these boards, good fortune with your recovery from these challenges, it looks like the lessons learned will be at least 3 volumes worth and maybe even a new NUREG,... [coffee]
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: RDTroja on Mar 30, 2012, 01:41
I agree, so show me in this case where SCE has done any of this...once they had the tube leak in U3, they shut it down and started looking for answers...they immediately expanded scope to U2...from where I sit they have made nothing but ultra-conservative decisions and have been taking their time in developing a recovery plan while at the same time trying to determine the cause.
Don't take 1 anonymous internet personalities opinions and think for a second that it reflects the plant operators plans.
I'm just asking that we wait for the process to play out before jumping to conclusions.

and a little support would be nice...

I did not say that SCE had done anything. I am sure that they are handling public relations in a professional manner and giving out the proper amount of information as it is known.

My issue is with a poster who (as far as I can tell) is an employee but not spokesperson for SCE and has tried to pass off the whole mess as 'business as usual' when it clearly is not. There is a difference between supporting the company and giving out false or misleading information. I understand (from many previous posts) that he is being a cheerleader and I don't find fault with that. However, there is a point where the cheerleader has to take off the blindfold and either admit that something is wrong or at least stop arguing with the people who understand that the situation is more than just a minor 'pay no attention, nothing to see here' event.

I am a very vocal proponent for Nuclear Power and I support all of the utilities that work hard to make things right. I have absolutely nothing against SONGS or SCE. I strongly believe that recognizing probelms is the first necessary step to correcting them. I suspect SCE is doing (has done) that. But the individual I was replying to and referencing in my posts has not. His attitude is detrimental to SONGS and nuclear power in general because he refuses to recognize that anything is wrong when everyone else, even the uneducated masses, can clearly see that there is.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Fermi2 on Mar 30, 2012, 05:27
I'm neither Pro or Con SCE. I haven't worked there so I don't know. I do know a couple years ago the NRC felt they had one of the worst Corrective Action Programs in the country and that's not something the NRC just makes up.
What does bother me is having a major event and someone from that facility acting like it's just another day in the industry even after some of us who have been around for a LONG time know it's not. Non Nuclear people read these forums too, and I'd wager a few of them are Antis. When they see a person like that acting as a default spokesperson for their facility it does NOT matter that the rest of us protest, what they see is a person, with unescorted access, a trained nukeworker saying Ho Hum. I resent it and to have people think that scares me. Fact is, it wasn't until presented with irrefutable evidence that he changed his tone and to date he has not said he was wrong and that he'd change his behavior. He reminds me of the Kevin Bacon "Nothing is wrong" scene in Animal House.

I hope SCE does do a world class Root Cause and overcomes it because at least it casts some sunshine on all of us.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Chimera on Mar 30, 2012, 08:28
Speaking only from my personal perspective as an HP Tech (and Reactor Operator, Refueling Engineer, Rad Engineer, Rad Safety Officer, Construction Inspector, etc.) and having worked at SONGS off and on between 1982 and 2006, one of the things that always impressed me about SONGS was that, when something did go wrong or, at least, not according to plan, they would stop, regroup, decide on their course of action, brief everyone involved, and then tackle the problem.

I'll admit they have thoroughly ticked me off at times, but, compared to some other sites I've been at, they don't rush in until they're pretty sure of what they're doing.  If the problem they're tackling has ramifications to other jobs or the other unit, that is taken into account and taken care of.  Having said all that, their long-term corrective action program does seem to leave a lot to be desired.  However, having not been involved in that side of the action, I can't speak for what all they do to accomplish their corrective action items.  I've only seen how they respond when things go wrong in the middle of the job.

Michael
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Bigchris on Mar 30, 2012, 09:38
In order to help me understand the criticism that MeterSwangin is receiving from some posters here, it would be helpful if his critics could show how they have been critical of their own employers in these forums. It may be impossible to compare apples to apples, but perhaps they can provide some examples or explain the reasoning behind their decisions to discuss their own plants, in ways that would probably be OK with their bosses, if that is in fact what they have done.


The following post seems like a pragmatic position to take if you want to keep your job.
You have to be real careful about lessons you post too. Technical and human performance lessons are great. You have to watch Safety Lessons and lessons that have to do with the way your company actually does business as some things are business sensitive AND some safety items can be subject to a lawsuit.

It’s often easier to be a cheerleader than a team leader; cheerleaders don’t have to worry about “Ethic Cleansing.”1

Perhaps a balance between cheerleader and team leader is appropriate?


1.INPO “HRO Safety Culture Definition An Integrated Approach” Jan 2010
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Fermi2 on Mar 30, 2012, 09:46
In order to help me understand the criticism that MeterSwangin is receiving from some posters here, it would be helpful if his critics could show how they have been critical of their own employers in these forums. It may be impossible to compare apples to apples, but perhaps they can provide some examples or explain the reasoning behind their decisions to discuss their own plants, in ways that would probably be OK with their bosses, if that is in fact what they have done.


The following post seems like a pragmatic position to take if you want to keep your job.
It’s often easier to be a cheerleader than a team leader; cheerleaders don’t have to worry about “Ethic Cleansing.”1

Perhaps a balance between cheerleader and team leader is appropriate?


1.INPO “HRO Safety Culture Definition An Integrated Approach” Jan 2010


Incorrect. That has nothing to do with balancing anything. If someone gets injured at your plant you best watch what you say before it is cleared by the legal beagles as you might end up being someones star witness because of something you said on the internet. In truth anything you post about your plant operations on an open forum could be classified as business proprietary.

That is a far cry from pretending ruptured tubes in nearly new Steam Generators is "normal and expected"
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: RDTroja on Apr 02, 2012, 08:53
In order to help me understand the criticism that MeterSwangin is receiving from some posters here, it would be helpful if his critics could show how they have been critical of their own employers in these forums. It may be impossible to compare apples to apples, but perhaps they can provide some examples or explain the reasoning behind their decisions to discuss their own plants, in ways that would probably be OK with their bosses, if that is in fact what they have done.


The following post seems like a pragmatic position to take if you want to keep your job.
It’s often easier to be a cheerleader than a team leader; cheerleaders don’t have to worry about “Ethic Cleansing.”1

Perhaps a balance between cheerleader and team leader is appropriate?


1.INPO “HRO Safety Culture Definition An Integrated Approach” Jan 2010

No one has asked him to be critical... it would, however, be nice for him to drop the Pollyanna 'everything is beautiful' attitude, at least until he was sure of what he was talking about. If he chooses to be silent rather than admit that the problems exist, that would be better than trying to convince people that know better that everything is all right.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: chuckdhuff on Apr 02, 2012, 09:52
He reminds me of the Kevin Bacon "Nothing is wrong" scene in Animal House.

"REMAIN CALM! ALL IS WELL!! REMAIN CALM! ALL IS WELL!!"
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Frankie Love on Apr 02, 2012, 10:58
Quote
http://atomicinsights.com/2011/02/arnie-gundersen-has-inflated-his-resume-yet-frequently-claims-that-entergy-cannot-be-trusted.html

Me thinks Arnie needs to be investigated. Like the wife says...there are three sides to a story...
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: tr on Apr 02, 2012, 11:13
In truth anything you post about your plant operations on an open forum could be classified as business proprietary.

Easiest advice for anyone involved in these type of situations is to only quote what is publicly available (NRC web page, newspapers, etc), and just use their non-public knowledge to ensure that the stories they choose to link to or quote are the ones that are accurate.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Rennhack on Apr 02, 2012, 11:21
Easiest advice for anyone involved in these type of situations is to only quote what is publicly available (NRC web page, newspapers, etc), and just use their non-public knowledge to ensure that the stories they choose to link to or quote are the ones that are accurate.

Great advice.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: chuckdhuff on May 09, 2012, 03:27
San Onofre repair bill nears $65m
http://analysis.nuclearenergyinsider.com/new-build/weekly-intelligence-brief-2-%E2%80%93-9-may-2012?utm_source=http%3a%2f%2fuk.nuclearenergyinsider.com%2ffc_nei_decomlz%2f&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=NEI+e-brief+0905&utm_term=What+the+new+safety+regime+means+for+US+nuclear+plant+operators&utm_content=140520 (http://analysis.nuclearenergyinsider.com/new-build/weekly-intelligence-brief-2-%E2%80%93-9-may-2012?utm_source=http%3a%2f%2fuk.nuclearenergyinsider.com%2ffc_nei_decomlz%2f&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=NEI+e-brief+0905&utm_term=What+the+new+safety+regime+means+for+US+nuclear+plant+operators&utm_content=140520)
See bottom of page.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: drayer54 on May 13, 2012, 11:16
Monday May 14th. I'm sure this will be a factual and unbiased show designed not to scare you for ratings.....
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: radbrat on May 14, 2012, 04:05
So... I'm sitting here really bored and lurking, 0400 on my last nite shift post Fermi outage. Seems the engineer didnt consider or miscalculated the fluid dynamics of his/her "like for like" S/G's and oscillations occurred. Would it...do ya think...be feasible to chemically clean the secondary side (nitric acid), install a recirc pump with heater tank and chemical add tank. Then fill up the secondary with a compatible soluble metal solution and instead of EC probes, run an electro current transducer on the primary side to electroplate the thin wall areas and the support brackets to damper the vibrations in the tubes. Did I mention I was really bored???
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HeavyD on May 14, 2012, 09:15
THIS is what happens on the mid-watch underway!  A bored Nuke can come up with some creative, ingenious and sometimes downright dangerous ideas :)
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on May 14, 2012, 09:57
So... I'm sitting here really bored and lurking, 0400 on my last nite shift post Fermi outage. Seems the engineer didnt consider or miscalculated the fluid dynamics of his/her "like for like" S/G's and oscillations occurred. Would it...do ya think...be feasible to chemically clean the secondary side (nitric acid), install a recirc pump with heater tank and chemical add tank. Then fill up the secondary with a compatible soluble metal solution and instead of EC probes, run an electro current transducer on the primary side to electroplate the thin wall areas and the support brackets to damper the vibrations in the tubes. Did I mention I was really bored???

Nope, different components would "clean" faster than others, and your electroplating gizmo would have to run gazunga amps into the S/G....this isn't a radiator from a 1996 Chevy truck we're talking about!
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: tr on Jun 08, 2012, 11:19
Apparently both units will be offline all summer.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-0608-san-onofre-20120608,0,3658394.story

http://www1.lex18.com/news/california-blackouts-possible-with-nuclear-plant-offline/
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HeavyD on Jun 18, 2012, 03:26
Things aren't looking too good for the home team :(

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/industries/ap-exclusive-regulators-suspect-design-flaw-caused-tube-trouble-at-idled-calif-nuke-plant/2012/06/18/gJQAQ8s3kV_story.html
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Marlin on Jun 18, 2012, 05:08
Things aren't looking too good for the home team :(

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/industries/ap-exclusive-regulators-suspect-design-flaw-caused-tube-trouble-at-idled-calif-nuke-plant/2012/06/18/gJQAQ8s3kV_story.html


   Speaking of not looking so good, I know it's been a very long time since I was at SONGS but that is a crappy looking beach compared to the one I remember. Do I have a bad memory or has something happened to it. We use to drive out of the SONGS gate and right into the the State park to play volleyball several times a week on what I remember as a nice sandy beach.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on Jun 18, 2012, 05:15
There should be some parking spots opening up on the Mesa...
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Nuke of the North on Jun 19, 2012, 09:46
There should be some parking spots opening up on the Mesa...
Nah, those spots will be needed for the decommissioning crew. Once talk of de-rating the plant starts floating around, thoughts of permanent shutdown usually aren't far behind.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: UncaBuffalo on Jun 20, 2012, 04:50
   Speaking of not looking so good, I know it's been a very long time since I was at SONGS but that is a crappy looking beach compared to the one I remember. Do I have a bad memory or has something happened to it. We use to drive out of the SONGS gate and right into the the State park to play volleyball several times a week on what I remember as a nice sandy beach.

http://www.nukeworker.com/pictures/displayimage.php?&pos=-4991%20target=

I think the one in the article looks so bad because it is:

1. Further down beach.  and
2. Lower tide?

I miss SONGS beach volleyball, too...
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: btkeele on Jun 20, 2012, 08:38
Unca...You are right on the pic...the beach is still nice and the, um, scenery on the beach is still
awesome...california girls...gotta luv em...

btw, don't believe what you read on the AP news report...

Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Content1 on Jun 24, 2012, 09:29
Do you think there will be a lot of D & D work when they decide to shut San Onofre down for good?
 
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: GLW on Jun 24, 2012, 09:36
Do you think there will be a lot of D & D work when they decide to shut San Onofre down for good?
 

Nah, by that time we'll just be waving magic wands and sprinkling pixie dust to make those containment domes go away,....

Geez Luweeze Content, some days, some days,...... :P ;) :) 8)
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on Jun 24, 2012, 12:02
Do you think there will be a lot of D & D work when they decide to shut San Onofre down for good?
 

Sure, in 2050, let a few t1/2 go by and most of it can go to landfill. Won't help the job scene within the context of this thread for anyone currently working...
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Nuke of the North on Jun 25, 2012, 05:50
Like I posted before, the talk is already starting. Specifically, it's looking as if some are vewing a potential permanent shutown of SONGS as a golden opportunity to kill several birds with one stone:

Quote
California energy officials are beginning to plan for the possibility of a long-range future without the San Onofre nuclear power plant...

...That long-range planning process already involves dealing with the possible repercussions of climate change, a mandate to boost the state's use of renewable sources to 33% of the energy supply by 2020 and another mandate to phase out a process known as once-through cooling, which uses ocean water to cool coastal power plants, that will probably take some other plants out of service.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-san-onofre-20120624,0,2982359.story

In just about any other scenarion, the thought of shutting down a plant like SONGS would probably be unthinkable. However, in the current context one single word completely changes that whole equation for the worse - "Kalifornia".

Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: chuckdhuff on Jun 26, 2012, 09:55
Quote
In just about any other scenario, the thought of shutting down a plant like SONGS would probably be unthinkable. However, in the current context one single word completely changes that whole equation for the worse - "Kalifornia".
To understand it you have to think like a "Kalifornian". Songs represents ~7.85% of their total in-state electricity production. They only produce 71% of what they consume. My math may be wrong, but I think that puts SONGS's output at about 5.5% of their total consumption. They probably plan to replace it with energy conservation and renewable sources. Whatever shortfalls they have they can purchase from the dirt burners and nukes of the southwest. As long as it is not being produced in their state, who cares where the electricity comes from.

http://energyalmanac.ca.gov/overview/energy_sources.html (http://energyalmanac.ca.gov/overview/energy_sources.html)
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on Jun 26, 2012, 10:17
To understand it you have to think like a "Kalifornian". Songs represents ~7.85% of their total in-state electricity production. They only produce 71% of what they consume. My math may be wrong, but I think that puts SONGS's output at about 5.5% of their total consumption. They probably plan to replace it with energy conservation and renewable sources. Whatever shortfalls they have they can purchase from the dirt burners and nukes of the southwest. As long as it is not being produced in their state, who cares where the electricity comes from.

http://energyalmanac.ca.gov/overview/energy_sources.html (http://energyalmanac.ca.gov/overview/energy_sources.html)

Well, unless they are gonna install a 200 MW wind farm that ties into both Sempra's system and west of a couple fancy 230 kV subs in south Orange County, it won't help the SCIT limit much and there will still be voltage problems.

Now where did I leave my Masslin mop... [decon]



Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: chuckdhuff on Jun 26, 2012, 01:42
Quote
Well, unless they are gonna install a 200 MW wind farm that ties into both Sempra's system and west of a couple fancy 230 kV subs in south Orange County, it won't help the SCIT limit much and there will still be voltage problems.

No argument from me on it. I was just guessing their plan. I'm sure they wont mind purchasing another 5% from out-of-state sources. They are already purchasing 29% of their usage.

How to measure a successful day: Did you produce more than you consumed?
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: hamsamich on Jun 26, 2012, 02:09
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoreham_Nuclear_Power_Plant

not just Kalifornians.....longislandia ns too
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: GLW on Jun 26, 2012, 02:41
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoreham_Nuclear_Power_Plant

not just Kalifornians.....longislandia ns too

I beg to differ,...
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on Jun 26, 2012, 02:44
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoreham_Nuclear_Power_Plant

not just Kalifornians.....longislandia ns too

More like

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rancho_Seco_Nuclear_Generating_Station (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rancho_Seco_Nuclear_Generating_Station)

Both SONGS and Rancho had/have years to go on license that allow sufficient time to gently recapitalize the ($400 million/ $1 billion??) needed to fix what ails them and move on. Yet there was a common thread at play...
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Fermi2 on Jun 26, 2012, 02:49
Time for some rolling blackouts though in truth, if you were a citizen of California would you trust SONGs? I'm not saying they have done anything untrustworthy however we say constantly people should trust us after all we're the experts. Then something like this happens.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: chuckdhuff on Jun 26, 2012, 02:51
I copied this from a news story featured in Nukeworker's Nuclear News section.

Quote
Other questions concerned the level of radioactive gas leakage, the necessity of independent analysis, the possibility of using alternative wind and solar energy sources as well as reducing energy demand through conservation.

http://www.lagunabeachindependent.com/2012/06/26/long-hot-summer-debate-san-onofre-2/ (http://www.lagunabeachindependent.com/2012/06/26/long-hot-summer-debate-san-onofre-2/)
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on Jun 26, 2012, 02:59
True, the other scary scenario is that the rotating load sheds in a long,hot sweltering summer DON'T happen.

Right now the weather is mild, and power in most of that area has ranged from 46 cents to 14 bucks and change per MWh today. Wind is blowing nicely. Nat gas around $2.75/MMBtu. Let's all hope for a successful restart soon.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: btkeele on Jun 26, 2012, 09:34
More like

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rancho_Seco_Nuclear_Generating_Station (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rancho_Seco_Nuclear_Generating_Station)

Both SONGS and Rancho had/have years to go on license that allow sufficient time to gently recapitalize the ($400 million/ $1 billion??) needed to fix what ails them and move on. Yet there was a common thread at play...

One major difference is that the Ranch was owned by a public municipality...Songs is owned by SCE and no matter how many loonies protest, they cannot shut the plant down... the NRC can refuse to give them the keys, but, the public can whine and cry and lie all they want... the decision at Songs is up to SCE with the NRC's approval.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Nuke of the North on Jun 26, 2012, 09:53
Songs is owned by SCE and no matter how many loonies protest, they cannot shut the plant down...
Wanna Bet?

The feckless leadership at SCE already proved they are willing and capable of such a feat when they pulled the rug out from under U1. All they need is the green light from the PUC to stick it to the rate base to recapture the outstanding capital investment, and SONGS will be just a memory from one of Bryson's seizure's.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: hamsamich on Jun 26, 2012, 10:01
OK just SOME Longislanders....I'm sure some had no issues.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: btkeele on Jun 27, 2012, 11:32
Wanna Bet?

The feckless leadership at SCE already proved they are willing and capable of such a feat when they pulled the rug out from under U1. All they need is the green light from the PUC to stick it to the rate base to recapture the outstanding capital investment, and SONGS will be just a memory from one of Bryson's seizure's.

You made my point...SCE leadership can, the public (like at SMUD) cannot
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: QCguy on Aug 21, 2012, 01:44
 http://www.danapointtimes.com/view/full_story/19874356/article-SONGS-to-Layoff-730?instance=DP-eye_on_sc

Songs to lay off 730.  Union can't be reached for comment.   U2 may restart, U3 is iffy without a SG replacement. 

    10 years ago or so SCE looked at Songs manning and determined that a double unit non-fleet plant should have about 1000 to 1100 workers.  SONGS had about 1400 at that time,  but the empire building went on, and the current report is 2100 workers now.

IMHO  SONGS problems haven't been upper management, but the mid-level GFs opposed change, promotion of under-managers who held those same values,  a bloated engineering department which plays CYA and a major league case of refusal to accept personal responsibility for bad results.

Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: milo124 on Aug 21, 2012, 09:54
I enjoyed working a couple of outages at SONGS and hopefully they'll get their act together.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Nuke of the North on Aug 22, 2012, 01:46
10 years ago or so SCE looked at Songs manning and determined that a double unit non-fleet plant should have about 1000 to 1100 workers.  SONGS had about 1400 at that time,  but the empire building went on, and the current report is 2100 workers now.

IMHO  SONGS problems haven't been upper management, but the mid-level GFs opposed change, promotion of under-managers who held those same values,  a bloated engineering department which plays CYA and a major league case of refusal to accept personal responsibility for bad results.

Unfortunately, I must concur with this assessment.

And the other info is in line with what I'm hearing from my contacts there now:

U3 is likely done for good - unless SCE can convince the CPUC to authorize yet another set of new S/G's (unlikely).
At best, U2 is a permanently de-rated plant going forward. But if SONGS falls out of the Rate Base, all bets are off.
Edison Mission Energy (EME) is underwater due to all of the bad coal-fired plant investments and headed either for bankruptcy court or the auction block very soon.
SCE still hasn't won approval for their latest rate increase request - made pre-shutdown.
All of this is finally starting to drag on the EIX bottom line and share price.

In CA, there is an automatic Rate Base Removal review triggered at 9 months for a non-performing asset. SONGS will hit that on November 1. However all of the usual kook suspects, as well as an increasing corus of mainstream advocates are demanding SONGS be dropped from the rate base now given that SCE has admitted neither Unit will be online before 11/1.
Also, practically every City Council within a 30 mile radius of the plant has gone on record and petitioned the CPUC and NRC asking that SONGS be mothballed, as well as most of the local newspapers, and a significant number of CA politicians.

This is all terrible news for what once was a celebrity plant in the US.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: tolstoy on Aug 22, 2012, 07:26
Whew! Interviewed there a few months ago and received a telephone call saying that they were unsure about filling the position at the time. I wallowed in depression for a week positive that I had black marker across my forehead during my interview. Now I am clicking my heals for that call. I would have about two months of work in and probably a nice fat year long lease on a very expensive home. And no job.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on Aug 29, 2012, 02:32
Has anyone benchmarked a single unit PWR site with 1500 employees...?


Radioactive Fuel to be Emptied from San Onofre Reactor
Monday, Aug 27, 2012 

 The operator of the San Onofre nuclear power plant is preparing to pull the radioactive fuel from one of its two shuttered reactors.

Nuclear Regulatory Commission senior inspector Gregory Warnick told The Associated Press on Monday that the fuel in the Unit 3 reactor will be moved into storage in mid-September.

It is another sign the Southern California plant won't be operating at full capacity anytime soon, if ever.

Last week, Southern California Edison announced that it was cutting 730 jobs from the plant, citing rising operational costs and uncertainty over the plant's future as an energy-generating company.

In January, the Unit 3 reactor was shut down as a precaution after a tube leak. Unit 2 was taken offline earlier that month. Neither units have been operational since.

“The reality is that the Unit 3 reactor will not be operating for some time,” SCE, which manages the San Onofre Nuclear Generating Station, stated last week in its announcement.



http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Radioactive-Fuel-to-be-Emptied-from-San-Onofre-Reactor-167637635.html (http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Radioactive-Fuel-to-be-Emptied-from-San-Onofre-Reactor-167637635.html)
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Nuke of the North on Aug 30, 2012, 09:08
Has anyone benchmarked a single unit PWR site with 1500 employees...?

Unfortunately, that's the key here. This 730 number is the result of a commitment SCE made to the CPUC back in 2010 simply to reach parity with other 2 Unit sites. It doesn't address staffing numbers should U3 go down permanently, and obviously isn't the final number should both units shutdown and SONGS goes into caretaking status.

It's also starting to dawn on the local communities that this will be devastating to their economies:

http://www.sanclementetimes.com/2012/08/30/songs-layoffs-whats-the-hit-nuclear-plant-job-cuts-a-worry-for-local-economy/

These are all highly paid workers and long term residents with homes and families in these communities. I can't think of any worse news for the area right now, particularly given that many of these folks are my friends.  :(
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Crusher on Oct 05, 2012, 02:42
http://nuclearpowernews.blogspot.com/2012/10/facebook-hits-new-milestone-everything.html

The restart plan has been submitted, but Allison MacFarlane is stating she will watch it like a hawk.  Unit 2 will only come online in a limited capacity next year and Unit 3 is highly suspect.  We better hope for a nice cool summer in 2013 or blackouts could happen.  Energy prices will skyrocket as they loss is already $165,000,000 by June 2012.  It's going to be long and ugly. 
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Nuke of the North on Oct 08, 2012, 10:35
It's going to be long and ugly. 

Could be even longer than they think

Quote
The Nuclear Regulatory Commission is considering if the complex proposal submitted by operator Southern California Edison last week to repair and start the damaged Unit 2 reactor will require an amendment to San Onofre's operating license, Regional Administrator Elmo Collins told reporters.
 
Such reviews can involve a thicket of public hearings, appeals and commission actions on safety and design issues that can take as long as two years to complete.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/49336220 (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/49336220)

Of course SCE is arguing this doesn't require a 50.59, butsome would argue that's how they got into this jam in the first place.

By the time every Micro-Blogger or Soccer-Mom living in SoCal is done testifying before the NRC, SONGS' license may be expired anyway!
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on Nov 17, 2012, 10:11
The plan of action, seen in pages 3 and 4 of the CAL, looks pretty solid with lots of industry support. 

http://pbadupws.nrc.gov/docs/ML1228/ML12285A263.pdf  (http://pbadupws.nrc.gov/docs/ML1228/ML12285A263.pdf)
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Nuke of the North on Dec 01, 2012, 09:04
Getting worse:

Quote
An investigation into possible sabotage by an employee is underway at Southern California Edison’s (NASDAQ: SCE) 2,200 MW San Onofre Nuclear Generating Station (SONGS) after engine coolant was found to have been poured in the oil reservoir of a backup generator last October, according to The Huffington Post.
 

"The comprehensive investigation has included rigorous tests, a review of station logs and employee interviews to determine the cause of the presence of the residual engine coolant," the article quoted SCE as saying. "Based on the unexpected discovery of the coolant in the diesel oil system and the ongoing investigation, security at the plant has been enhanced." The entire plant has been offline since early 2012 after significant degradation in steam-generation tubes was discovered in Units 2 and 3, leading to a small leak in Unit 3.
 
Rancorous negotiations between the union and management, combined with pressure from anti-nuclear groups and a frustrated general public, have led to a steep decline in morale at the plant, according to the article.  "While morale is as low as it has ever been and the environment is as chilled as it has ever been, no one I know could imagine doing such a thing,” an unnamed plant employee was quoted as saying. “First of all, the chances of getting caught are so high. But more importantly, what are you accomplishing? You're only endangering yourself and your coworkers and the surrounding public. I can't understand the logic behind it.
 
"On the other hand,” he said, “I'm also not completely surprised because the environment really is so harsh. People can do crazy things when they are under extreme stress."


http://www.power-eng.com/articles/2012/11/sabotage-suspected-in-san-onofre-nuclear-plant-investigation.html (http://www.power-eng.com/articles/2012/11/sabotage-suspected-in-san-onofre-nuclear-plant-investigation.html)

Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on Jan 06, 2013, 06:21
To understand it you have to think like a "Kalifornian". Songs represents ~7.85% of their total in-state electricity production. They only produce 71% of what they consume. My math may be wrong, but I think that puts SONGS's output at about 5.5% of their total consumption. They probably plan to replace it with energy conservation and renewable sources. Whatever shortfalls they have they can purchase from the dirt burners and nukes of the southwest. As long as it is not being produced in their state, who cares where the electricity comes from.

http://energyalmanac.ca.gov/overview/energy_sources.html (http://energyalmanac.ca.gov/overview/energy_sources.html)

Looks like your point was a very good one indeed! As the Huntington Beach generator-vs-synchronous condensor argument and litigation turns, looks like JPMorganChase just got "FERC'd"  :P

http://www.latimes.com/business/money/la-fi-mo-jpmorgan-power-station-huntington-beach-20130104,0,5914049.story (http://www.latimes.com/business/money/la-fi-mo-jpmorgan-power-station-huntington-beach-20130104,0,5914049.story)

Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Paulers on Feb 28, 2013, 04:36
Good to see a lot of my fellow operators finding new jobs Before the RIF.  :) Go Forth and Prosper!
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Cecelia on Mar 02, 2013, 01:08
I am hoping that our industry appreciates the trials SONGS is facing and supports them 100%. I was there when then problems were found and saw the reaction and the efforts first hand.  This could have happened to any plant. Industry failure in design of major components is not something we have failed at using USA made components. Japan deserves the heat on this one. Not SONGS. Liberal CA is having a field day of fodder over it and we dont need to help them. So I ask everyone to get behind them in support. Great plant, people and they deserve our support.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Already Gone on Mar 02, 2013, 10:36
Sorry Cecelia, but there won't be much sympathy for SONGS on this forum.  I loved working there, and really liked all the people I met there.  But my personal regard for the people doesn't give them a free pass on this one, just as it hasn't previously.
They are a poster child for the anti-nukes, and that isn't fair.  But you can't blame Japan for the latest problem entirely.  The person holding the license has to shoulder the blame for components they have installed, regardless of the source.
We'd probably give them some slack if there was some defect of which they were not aware.  We'd be right on their side if the defective steam generators were anything other than exactly what they knew they were getting.  If industry experience has proven the reliability of USA-made components, then why in hell did SONGS not buy them!?!?!  No.  They brought this on themselves.  It isn't the liberal media's fault that they bought the wrong design.  It isn't the nuclear industry's responsibility to defend them just because they are under attack.  You are wrong.  This could not have happened to "any" plant.  It might have happened to some other plant if they were run like San Onofre is run, but the reality is that it didn't happen to any other plant.  If it makes you feel better, Davis-Besse is back on the grid, but some people are in prison.  If it is any solace to you, Crystal River won't run again after cracking their containment.  Maybe they have some steam generators you can buy.
Yes, the anti-nukes have been grossly unfair to them.  And yes, the boilers came from a foreign manufacturer.  I feel bad that people are going to lose their jobs over this.  But, I can't accept their blind arrogant attitude that the world simply has to accept that they are relatively inept at running a nuke plant just because 1) they have been mistreated in the press for decades and 2) California needs their megawatts.  The industry isn't likely to love them after they have skewed the statistics on cost and availability in the wrong direction for so long.  And now, they have jeopardized even further the outlook for building new units.  Face it, they make the rest of us look bad, and showing support for them will be viewed as acceptance of their low standards.
After all the fuss, excuses don't keep the nuclides inside the pipe where they belong.  They need a better game plan than shrugging their shoulders and saying "we did the best we could, and you need us".
Any hope they have for redemption has to start with someone else taking over management of that site.  I can't imagine who might want to take on a broken plant with a history of public persecution in a state that has no means to offer financial incentives.  Rehabilitating SONGS is going to be difficult, expensive, and done under a microscope.   That means that there had better be beaucoup money in the picture or nobody is going to want to touch it.  So that leaves SCE to try to do it.  Nobody believes that they can except SCE themselves, and you see where their judgment has gotten them.  So don't blame us for doubting it now.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: dea on Mar 03, 2013, 11:22
I'd just like to point out that you can't get a Steam Generator or any large component made in the USA because we have let our manufacturing base erode away.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HeavyD on Mar 04, 2013, 07:26
If I recall correctly, the NRC identified faulty modeling software, used by MHI, as the root cause of the issues with the steam generators. 

Here is a brief snapshot of what the NRC found at MHI http://pbadupws.nrc.gov/docs/ML1233/ML12333A144.pdf

Does this exclude SONGS from any responsibility?  Absolutely not.  As the license holder, they are ultimately responsible for what gets manufactured for them and what gets installed into their plant.

As to dea's post concerning our manufacturing base eroding away, that isn't a 100% correct statement.  The companies that previously manufactured these components in the US stopped manufacturing them as a business decision.  The demand for these components didn't exist for almost 30 years.  Maintaining an Appendix B QA program is expensive.  Simple supply and demand dictated that the manufacturers scale back or turn their services to a profitable endeavor instead of producing large, nuclear industry specific items like steam generators.

Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Takar on Mar 05, 2013, 10:46
SONGS Union reduction-in-force to start in Mid-march, with layoffs in June 2013.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Nuke of the North on May 02, 2013, 10:20
As predicted. The talk has started:

http://alisoviejo.patch.com/articles/edison-considers-closing-san-onofre-amid-costly-repairs (http://alisoviejo.patch.com/articles/edison-considers-closing-san-onofre-amid-costly-repairs)

http://www.scpr.org/news/2013/04/30/37069/costs-for-san-onofre-nuclear-power-plant-shutdown/ (http://www.scpr.org/news/2013/04/30/37069/costs-for-san-onofre-nuclear-power-plant-shutdown/)

http://www.kcet.org/news/rewire/nuclear/san-onofre-nuclear-plant-may-close-for-good.html (http://www.kcet.org/news/rewire/nuclear/san-onofre-nuclear-plant-may-close-for-good.html)

Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: GLW on May 04, 2013, 09:09
As predicted. The talk has started:

http://alisoviejo.patch.com/articles/edison-considers-closing-san-onofre-amid-costly-repairs (http://alisoviejo.patch.com/articles/edison-considers-closing-san-onofre-amid-costly-repairs)

http://www.scpr.org/news/2013/04/30/37069/costs-for-san-onofre-nuclear-power-plant-shutdown/ (http://www.scpr.org/news/2013/04/30/37069/costs-for-san-onofre-nuclear-power-plant-shutdown/)

http://www.kcet.org/news/rewire/nuclear/san-onofre-nuclear-plant-may-close-for-good.html (http://www.kcet.org/news/rewire/nuclear/san-onofre-nuclear-plant-may-close-for-good.html)


............All good.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Nuke of the North on May 22, 2013, 01:41
WTF?

Anyone recognize any of these clowns?

Quote
SAN DIEGO - A video titled “SONGS Trek” made inside the San Onofre nuclear power plant has been given to Team 10. The video is a Star Trek spoof featuring the show’s music, costumes and an Enterprise replica in the opening shot.

An inside source at the plant gave the video to Team 10 Investigator Mitch Blacher. Additional sources have now confirmed the video is legitimate, and was produced from inside the plant.

The spoof features top nuclear managers dressed as Star Trek characters. At one point, the manager who plays Captain Kirk mentions "safety hazards."

Blacher and Team 10 were working on a full-story about this video mid-Tuesday afternoon, including details on where inside the nuclear plant the spoof video was shot, why they made it, and the controversy it is now creating.

http://www.10news.com/news/investigations/team-10-obtains-songs-trek-a-star-trek-spoof-video-made-inside-san-onofre-nuclear-power-plant05212013 (http://www.10news.com/news/investigations/team-10-obtains-songs-trek-a-star-trek-spoof-video-made-inside-san-onofre-nuclear-power-plant05212013)

Waiting for it on YouTube...
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: xobxdoc on May 22, 2013, 07:18
That leak catchment device shows initiative!
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: retired nuke on May 22, 2013, 07:58
WTF?

Anyone recognize any of these clowns?

http://www.10news.com/news/investigations/team-10-obtains-songs-trek-a-star-trek-spoof-video-made-inside-san-onofre-nuclear-power-plant05212013 (http://www.10news.com/news/investigations/team-10-obtains-songs-trek-a-star-trek-spoof-video-made-inside-san-onofre-nuclear-power-plant05212013)

Waiting for it on YouTube...

Much ado about nothing. Didn't compromise safety, or display an unsafe attitude that I saw. Done in the simulator (where you can have all the alarms flashing).
Done before the S/G crap started.

I have seen worse training videos from other plants, that actually are on youtube.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Nuke of the North on May 22, 2013, 11:12
Much ado about nothing. Didn't compromise safety, or display an unsafe attitude that I saw. Done in the simulator (where you can have all the alarms flashing).
Done before the S/G crap started.

I have seen worse training videos from other plants, that actually are on youtube.

All of that is irrelevant. We all know SONGS' battle now is mostly PR, not technical - and they are losing bad. Just like this other so-called "controversy" out for a few weeks now which we all can tell is also utterly bogus:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/02/san-onofre-leaky-pipe-fixed-tape-plastic-bag_n_3203289.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/02/san-onofre-leaky-pipe-fixed-tape-plastic-bag_n_3203289.html)

http://www.10news.com/news/investigations/photograph-picture-given-to-team-10-shows-plastic-bags-tape-broomsticks-used-to-fix-leak-at-san-onofre-043013 (http://www.10news.com/news/investigations/photograph-picture-given-to-team-10-shows-plastic-bags-tape-broomsticks-used-to-fix-leak-at-san-onofre-043013)

Using the Osama/Demoncrat IRS/AP/Benghazzi excuses of "Much ado about nothing" "Nothing to see here" "Move on" won't help the cause either.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: 61nomad on May 22, 2013, 03:48
I disagree about their problems being mostly PR. Isn't their main problem the fact that the tubes in their new SGs are banging together?

Isn't it always the managers that say "perception is reality"?  Well I guess the reality is that upper management was too busy playing Star Trek to worry about the quality of their new generators!
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: GLW on May 22, 2013, 04:20
All of that is irrelevant. We all know SONGS' battle now is mostly PR, not technical - and they are losing bad.....

The battle is that the vocal, activist community does not want them,...

Those that do want them are neither, vocal, active, committed or populous enough to turn the tide,...

SONGS may not be the better energy option for that customer base,...

It'll play out as it does,...

The Vegas line is 5:1 against both units being on-line and putting power on the grid within the next three years,...[coffee]
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Nuke of the North on May 22, 2013, 10:48
I disagree about their problems being mostly PR. Isn't their main problem the fact that the tubes in their new SGs are banging together?

The NRC had already given notice that they were ready to issue a "No Significant Hazards" ruling to SCE's answer to the CAL, giving permission for <70% trials. It was the whackos that sued (egged on by the press and virtually every City Council within a 50 mile radius) and got the The Atomic Licensing and Safety Board to issue the ruling last week stating that SCE's application was a DeFacto Operating License Amendment, putting the kibosh to the whole thing. After some equivocation, the NRC has stated the decision to grant a restart has now been postponed "indefinitely."

Now of course the argument can be made that these suits would have been filed no matter what, but the last thing SCE can afford right now is even more bad press. And parading around on Youtube in tacky Star Trek Uniforms certainly doesn't help their image either!
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Rennhack on May 23, 2013, 09:30
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2013/05/star-trek-spoof-at-nuclear-power-plant/

Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Nuke of the North on May 24, 2013, 05:18
Now the Brits have picked it up!

Quote
Set phasers to DUMB: Safety video filmed inside nuclear plant features employees in Star Trek spoof

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2330093/Uncovered-safety-video-filmed-inside-nuclear-plant-features-employees-Star-Trek-spoof.html#ixzz2UFOE0uXU
 
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Rennhack on May 25, 2013, 12:41


It's going viral...

http://io9.com/nuclear-plant-workers-film-star-trek-spoof-inside-train-509714864
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Nuke of the North on May 25, 2013, 02:23
BTW, anyone notice that the two engine nacels on the "USS SONGS" in the video are supposed to look like the two domes? Obviously someone had way too much time on their hands that day.

...and apparently so do I... ;)
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on May 25, 2013, 03:04
Have other plants managed to get a License Amendment done in 6 months or less, from a flat-footed start?
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: jams723 on May 25, 2013, 06:50
Have other plants managed to get a License Amendment done in 6 months or less, from a flat-footed start?

It is possible to get an extingent request through but this would not qualify (IMO, but it has aspects that could meet the requirement).   NRC standard timeline is one year for a LAR.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: retired nuke on May 28, 2013, 11:05
Another nail...
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/05/28/sen-boxer-wants-justice-department-probe-on-troubled-california-nuclear-plant/ (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/05/28/sen-boxer-wants-justice-department-probe-on-troubled-california-nuclear-plant/)

Although what credibility the DOJ has about now... I don't know.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Nuke of the North on May 28, 2013, 09:45
Another nail...
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/05/28/sen-boxer-wants-justice-department-probe-on-troubled-california-nuclear-plant/ (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/05/28/sen-boxer-wants-justice-department-probe-on-troubled-california-nuclear-plant/)

Although what credibility the DOJ has about now... I don't know.

Just blame it all on the (Star Trek) Video...
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: QCguy on Jun 05, 2013, 06:09
Big part of the problem is that no one in the local communities has any confidence in the PR messages issued by EIX.  Thing went from "problem, what problem?" to "everythings ok, we have this under control" to "oops" to "we Think we have a fix" and "we have this neat experiment" plus the companion line during the whole thing saying "it wasn't us officer, it was two other guys who looked like us". (Westinghouse and MHI).
While Las Wages may have a 5 to 1 line against the plant, the stock market and institutional investors seem to think that EIX can pull a dollar covered rabbit from the PUC hat.  This is proven by the fact that the share price is still up, and EIX just got a renewed "Buy" rating fromThe Street.Com, even though they are starting to get cash short.  Since I draw a check every month from them as well as medical, from my selfish point of view thats good, but from my public spirited side its a shame.
But no matter what, there is still tons of money to be made from a several years long decommissioning, so be of good cheer.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: nspunx4 on Jun 05, 2013, 06:47
The worst part is all the unnecessary environmental damage being done by the burning of fossil fuels to replace these 2 units. Peoples health and safety are being put at risk so politicians can use this vital clean reliable energy producer as a political football. I wonder how many sick and elderly people will die due to grid instability and rolling blackouts this summer caused by the loss of San Onofre?

But hey, as long as the decommissioning money rolls in that's ok right?
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on Jun 05, 2013, 08:04
But hey, as long as the decommissioning money rolls in that's ok right?

The smart money in the last few years has been to wait for 10 years or so in SAFSTOR, allowing more of the material to be released to landfill rather than have to go to a repository.

http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/fact-sheets/decommissioning.html (http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/fact-sheets/decommissioning.html)
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Fermi2 on Jun 07, 2013, 11:46
What did Meter Swangin say? All good?
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: RDTroja on Jun 07, 2013, 12:25
All Done.

UPDATE 3-SCE to retire California San Onofre reactor
•   
Fri Jun 7, 2013 11:24am EDT
By Scott DiSavino
    June 7 (Reuters) - Southern California Edison, a unit of
California power company Edison International, decided
to permanently retire the San Onofre nuclear power plant,
forcing California to find other electric sources to help keep
the lights on in the future.
    Both units have been shut down safely since January 2012
following a small radioactive leak in a tube inside a steam
generator manufactured by Japanese engineering firm Mitsubishi
Heavy Industries Ltd.
    Reliability regulators said California is already dealing
with "operational challenges" due to the reactor shutdowns and
noted a prolonged or extreme heat wave could force the state's
grid operator to impose rolling blackouts in the San Diego and
Los Angeles areas to maintain system integrity.
    The two San Onofre units increase the number of U.S.
reactors retiring so far in 2013 to four due in part to weak
natural gas and power prices and uncertain major repair costs.
    "It looks like more and more with an abundant supply of
cheap gas it is easier to walk away from a nuclear plant then to
fix it, This is a trend that I think will continue," said Phil
Flynn, senior market analyst with the Price Futures Group in
Chicago.
    The other two reactors already shut this year are Dominion
Resource Inc's Kewaunee in Wisconsin due primarily to
economics and Duke Energy Corp's Crystal River in
Florida due primarily to the uncertain cost of major repairs.
    For a factbox on other U.S. reactors that have retired, see

    SCE started installing the two steam generators at San
Onofre in the 1,070-megawatt (MW) Unit 2 in 2009 and two more in
1,080-MW Unit 3 in 2010, one of which developed the leak, SCE
said in a release on Friday.
    "(San Onofre) has served this region for over 40 years," Ted
Craver, Chairman and CEO of Edison International, said in the
release.
    "But we have concluded that the continuing uncertainty about
when or if (San Onofre) might return to service was not good for
our customers, our investors, or the need to plan for our
region`s long-term electricity needs," he said.
    The San Onofre reactors entered service in 1983 and 1984,
according to federal data. The plant is in San Clemente about 60
miles (96 km) southeast of Los Angeles on the Pacific Coast.
    
    SECOND QUARTER CHARGES
    In connection with the decision to shut the plant, SCE
estimates it will record a charge in the second quarter of
between $450 million and $650 million before taxes ($300 million
- $425 million after tax), in accordance with accounting
requirements.
    SCE said it intends to pursue recovery of damages from
Mitsubishi Heavy as well as recovery of amounts under applicable
insurance policies.
    SCE operates San Onofre for its owners, including SCE (78
percent), Sempra Energy's San Diego Gas and Electric
utility (20 percent) and the City of Riverside in California
holds a small stake.
    On Friday, Edison International stock climbed nearly 2
percent to $47.25 per share, compared with a less than 1 percent
gain in the Dow Jones and Standard & Poors
utilities averages.
    SCE submitted a restart plan to the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory
Commission (NRC) in October 2012. SCE proposed to restart Unit 2
at a reduced power level of up to 70 percent for an initial
period of about five months, SCE said.
    The NRC has been reviewing SCE's plans for restart of Unit 2
for the last eight months, during which several public meetings
have been held, SCE said.
    SCE said in April if the NRC did not approve of the restart
by the summer it may decide to retire the plant.
    After an adjudicatory arm of the NRC, the Atomic Safety and
Licensing Board (ASLB), last month decided more public hearings
were necessary, SCE decided to retire the reactors due in part
to the uncertainty of when a final decision might be made on
restarting Unit 2.
    SCE said additional administrative processes and appeals
could result in delay of more than a year. During this period,
the costs of maintaining San Onofre in a state of readiness to
restart and the costs to replace the power the plant previously
provided would continue.
    Moreover, SCE said it is uneconomic for the utility and its
customers to bear the long-term repair costs for returning San
Onofre to full power operation without restart of Unit 2.
    
    FOCUS ON THE FUTURE
    SCE said its efforts are better focused on planning for the
replacement generation and transmission resources which will be
required for grid reliability.
    "Looking ahead," said Ron Litzinger, SCE's President, "we
think that our decision to retire the units will eliminate
uncertainty and facilitate orderly planning for California`s
energy future."
    But, Litzinger warned that "generation outages, soaring
temperatures or wildfires impacting transmission lines would
test the system."
    SCE said with the San Onofre retirement, the company will
reduce staff over the next year from about 1,500 to about 400
employees with the majority of the reductions expected in 2013.
    Full retirement of the units prior to decommissioning will
take many years, SCE said.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Brett LaVigne on Jun 07, 2013, 06:10
I have certainly been critical of SONGS in the past based on my own experience there, but that was a long time ago and I never wanted to see this. There are some really good folks at this plant that will be needing a new gig before too long and this kind of episode never does the public perception of our industry any good.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: GLW on Jun 07, 2013, 09:06
I have certainly been critical of SONGS in the past based on my own experience there, but that was a long time ago and I never wanted to see this. There are some really good folks at this plant that will be needing a new gig before too long and this kind of episode never does the public perception of our industry any good.

By my reckoning you finish working where you are and then move south about 700 miles and pick up on the next one and then you retire,...

It's all good Brett,...

Not to mention there are still plenty of hippie chicks in the SONGS vicinity as much or maybe more so than Eureka,...

I'm just saying,... [beer]
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on Jun 07, 2013, 09:13
By my reckoning you finish working where you are and then move south about 700 miles and pick up on the next one and then you retire,...

Whaddya wanna bet some astro-turf greenies will call for for immediate D&D of SONGS (and a round of BRAC to close Camp Pendleton) vs. a decade of SAFSTOR, with the cover story of wanting the beach back, but really a Trojan Horse for developers that want billions in coastal building sites for cheap
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Nuke of the North on Jun 07, 2013, 10:54
This is a disaster.

Listen to the announcement here:

Quote
In addition to the live conference call, a telephone replay will be available for 30 days at the following numbers:

            1-888-568-0503 - for callers in the United States
            1-203-369-3476 - for international callers
            Passcode: 5241
       
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Content1 on Jun 07, 2013, 11:46
I am sorry they decided to permanently shut down San Onofre.  I felt it was a good plant, I served on its last outage and I was there when the other unit went down, never to restart Jan 2012.  I was there as an operator during the startup back in 1982.  I feel it was a good source of reliable energy for our California grid.
That all being said, I wonder how long before they select a D&D schedule so that techs like me can help in the work to bring it back to background levels at the beaches there.  It can be done, I helped at Trojan and it was on its final survey when I left. 
I know, at present, natural gas is cheap (Until it runs out).  I remember it was not too long ago when I saw the rate triple for natural gas; once nuclear is gone in Southern California, I bet it will happen again.  I do outages in the East and I happened to see a power bill for a dominion resident about 1/3 the rate of my PG&E bill.  People will mourn the day when the actual cost of removing a technology others seem to manage well elsewhere.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on Jun 08, 2013, 12:48

That all being said, I wonder how long before they select a D&D schedule so that techs like me can help in the work

The first question from the WSJ reporter on the phone call touched on that, and the answer included "...multi-decade process".
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Already Gone on Jun 10, 2013, 12:04
The worst part is all the unnecessary environmental damage being done by the burning of fossil fuels to replace these 2 units. Peoples health and safety are being put at risk so politicians can use this vital clean reliable energy producer as a political football. I wonder how many sick and elderly people will die due to grid instability and rolling blackouts this summer caused by the loss of San Onofre?

But hey, as long as the decommissioning money rolls in that's ok right?

Dude, take a reality pill!  The plants are f**k**g BROKEN!!!!  I'm really sick of hearing people use the "we need the power" excuse for this damned place.  If reliability were such a huge consideration, they shouldn't have busted the place all up like that.
Necessity does not trump incompetence.
You want to know who to blame for the loss of San Onofre? Don't look beyond the fence.  SONGS f***ed SONGS.  Nobody else did it to them.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: nspunx4 on Jun 10, 2013, 12:51
Your right how stupid of me of course it is reasonable to trash a billions of dollars plant that produces 5% of the power for one of the largest states in the nation emission free because of a design error in replacement steam generators. Rather than replace the people and equipment let's dump the whole thing.

Jesus, I don't even work in this industry and sometimes it feels like I want nuclear to succeed more than some people who make a living off it.

HELLO, your industry has lost 3 plants in a little more than six months!

I am sorry buy I believe in nuclear power and I believe that it is the safest most reliable environmentally friendly way to generate the reliable power needed to maintain not only quality of life but to enhance our existence and save lives. Excuse me for being upset when it comes under attack from "environmentalists" and politicians.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: retired nuke on Jun 10, 2013, 06:47
I have said before - the hippies aren't going to shut our industry down - we are going to shut ourselves down.
By shortsighted, penny pinching decisions at CEO level, and skipping maintenance on non-critical equipment to keep bonuses at GMPO level.

Us workin stiffs ain't got a chance...
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: hamsamich on Jun 10, 2013, 08:33
I agreee.  I know there is a story behind those generators.  I know greed has to factor into it somewhat (for instance - changing the u-tube design to squeeze a couple more MW out of it possibly).  I'd love to know the whole thing for real.  Everyone trying to cya probably buried alot of it.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: GLW on Jun 10, 2013, 09:06
....I am sorry buy I believe in nuclear power and I believe that it is the safest most reliable environmentally friendly way to generate the reliable power needed to maintain not only quality of life but to enhance our existence and save lives. Excuse me for being upset when it comes under attack from "environmentalists" and politicians.

Then, start a petition to build a high level waste repository in the county where you live,...

Walk the talk,...

If you get more than a thousand signatures I would be stunned,...

You cannot shove down people's throats what they do not want,...

Unless you can hide behind these;

(http://www.safetysign.com/images/catlog/product/medium/F7843.png)
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: GLW on Jun 10, 2013, 09:25
I have said before - the hippies aren't going to shut our industry down - we are going to shut ourselves down.
By shortsighted, penny pinching decisions at CEO level, and skipping maintenance on non-critical equipment to keep bonuses at GMPO level.

Us workin stiffs ain't got a chance...

There is a difference between an energy company and a nuclear power company,...

All those CEO's and others you mentioned do not look at nukes like you do, hell, as a stockholder, I don't either,...

Nukes are assets, not raison d'être,...

If they cannot compete or are just plain not wanted, they have outlived their usefulness,...

They are often not wanted, then, pile on waste costs, ever increasing security costs, lowering costs for other energy sources, et al, and nukes can easily become a business liability, not an asset,...

Since 1988 I have paid my bills and made a good living DnD'ing half a dozen serviceable nuclear plants for better than 80% of those years,...

All of those plants would have probably been kept on-line, maintained and improved in France,...

But this ain't France,...

The Navy did not adopt nuclear powered ships to give nukes an NEC, and the bigger world does not operate nukes to give nukeworkers jobs,...

Be thankful for those long half-lives, they probably compel many more of our jobs than we as a skilled craft would otherwise realize,...

Adapt and overcome,... 8)

(sic)
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: hamsamich on Jun 10, 2013, 12:10
Yeah in France this probably wouldn't have happened and if it did they would change out the gennys and run another 40y.  And everybody gives France crap!  At least they know nuclear...
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: GLW on Jun 10, 2013, 12:37
Yeah in France this probably wouldn't have happened and if it did they would change out the gennys and run another 40y.  And everybody gives France crap!  At least they know nuclear...


It's because they have a national commitment to nuclear, they have an over reaching national government, nuclear is probably their best baseline energy alternative as they have scant other abundant fuel resources, and the French reactors are standardized to a degree we have never pursued,...

The market dynamics are fundamentally different,...

They also accomplish more work with significantly fewer personnel (nukeworkers),...
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: RDTroja on Jun 10, 2013, 12:41
It's because they have a national commitment to nuclear, they have an over reaching national government, nuclear is probably their best baseline energy alternative as they have scant other abundant fuel resources, and the French reactors are standardized to a degree we have never pursued,...

The market dynamics are fundamentally different,...

They also accomplish more work with significantly fewer personnel,...

Translation: They did Nuclear right and we (the inventors) did not. Sometimes market competition does not bring about the best results.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on Jun 10, 2013, 12:42
There is a difference between an energy company and a nuclear power company,...

All those CEO's and others you mentioned do not look at nukes like you do, hell, as a stockholder, I don't either,...

Nukes are assets, not raison d'être,...

If they cannot compete or are just plain not wanted, they have outlived their usefulness,...

They are often not wanted, then, pile on waste costs, ever increasing security costs, lowering costs for other energy sources, et al, and nukes can easily become a business liability, not an asset,...

Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: GLW on Jun 10, 2013, 12:47


There is a difference between an energy company and a nuclear power company,...

All those CEO's and others you mentioned do not look at nukes like you do, hell, as a stockholder, I don't either,...

Nukes are assets, not raison d'être,...

If they cannot compete or are just plain not wanted, they have outlived their usefulness,...

They are often not wanted, then, pile on waste costs, ever increasing security costs, lowering costs for other energy sources, et al, and nukes can easily become a business liability, not an asset,...





I'll accept that one today,...it is funny,... 8)
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: nspunx4 on Jun 10, 2013, 01:02
Then, start a petition to build a high level waste repository in the county where you live,...

Walk the talk,...

If you get more than a thousand signatures I would be stunned,...

You cannot shove down people's throats what they do not want,...

Unless you can hide behind these;

(http://www.safetysign.com/images/catlog/product/medium/F7843.png)



Why would I want a high level repository? That would accomplish nothing but a waste of valuable resources. I would happily start a petition to build a fuel reprocessing plant in my town Peabody, Ma. I live near Pilgrim and Seabrook and have petitioned and written letters in support of their re-licensing.

I don't know why I seem to have the minority opinion here all I am saying is that I think it is a terrible waste that this plant is being shut down wether the cause was greed, ineptitude, or a design error. Nuclear is the best option available to provide reliable base load power without emitting green house gasses. ANY loss of nuclear capacity will cause more damaging fossil fuels to be burned which will harm not just California but the entire planet. We should be building new nuclear capacity not closing 3 plants in six months. Why is this being taken as some type of obtuse opinion on a message board or nuclear industry professionals? It is boggling my mind!
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Fermi2 on Jun 10, 2013, 01:22
Why would I want a high level repository? That would accomplish nothing but a waste of valuable resources. I would happily start a petition to build a fuel reprocessing plant in my town Peabody, Ma. I live near Pilgrim and Seabrook and have petitioned and written letters in support of their re-licensing.

I don't know why I seem to have the minority opinion here all I am saying is that I think it is a terrible waste that this plant is being shut down wether the cause was greed, ineptitude, or a design error. Nuclear is the best option available to provide reliable base load power without emitting green house gasses. ANY loss of nuclear capacity will cause more damaging fossil fuels to be burned which will harm not just California but the entire planet. We should be building new nuclear capacity not closing 3 plants in six months. Why is this being taken as some type of obtuse opinion on a message board or nuclear industry professionals? It is boggling my mind!

Simple, we are professionals and realize this is a BUSINESS. If a plant is uneconomical to run then it should be shut down, it's no different than any facility.
SONGs, Crystal River, Kewaunee became uneconomical. Eventually you have to decide if by the time you solve the issues at these facilities and it costs xxx dollars but you'll only earn back XX dollars is it worth it? Well when you are a utility who has to pay a dividend to shareholders then NO it is not worth it. It's pure economics. I got news for you, the utilities are not in business to make ecologically sound energy, they went years without doing so. THEY ARE IN THE BUSINESS TO MAKE MONEY!
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Nuke of the North on Jun 10, 2013, 02:51
Jesus, I don't even work in this industry and sometimes it feels like I want nuclear to succeed more than some people who make a living off it.

It’s because you probably aren’t aware of all the history here. Your reaction is analogous to someone watching the “Intervention” TV show and asking “why is everyone being so mean to Uncle Bob the Meth Head? Why not just give him a second chance and start over fresh?” Whereas the family (The Nuclear Industry in this case) has been putting up with Uncle Bob’s $hit for years and are fed up, so they are turning their back and cutting him off.

San Onofre has been on the bottom of every Industry and Regulatory Performance Metric scale for over a decade now. They have spent millions of dollars on high visibility, Enterprise Wide, Human Performance Improvement Initiatives and failed miserably. Despite having one of the largest, bloated staffing levels of ANY Nuclear plant they have continued the downward spiral. And they have a consistent track record of botching their high-dollar, complex, major capital replacement projects – the SG’s being only the latest example.

No one here is happy with the events that have come to pass. But just as in the analogy above, everyone must at some point finally face the consequences of their actions. Fair or Unfair, history is finally catching up to SONGS.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: milo124 on Jun 10, 2013, 05:27
Regardless of the why, its sad to see them shut down.  I worked with some good people there and I still remember sitting out back under a tent, the ocean breeze, listening to the radio and staring out at the ocean as I surveyed items for free release.  Then rudely being brought back to reality by hearing the dreaded GSF (Go See Frank)! Lol.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: retired nuke on Jun 11, 2013, 05:55
It’s because you probably aren’t aware of all the history here. Your reaction is analogous to someone watching the “Intervention” TV show and asking “why is everyone being so mean to Uncle Bob the Meth Head? Why not just give him a second chance and start over fresh?” Whereas the family (The Nuclear Industry in this case) has been putting up with Uncle Bob’s $hit for years and are fed up, so they are turning their back and cutting him off.

San Onofre has been on the bottom of every Industry and Regulatory Performance Metric scale for over a decade now. They have spent millions of dollars on high visibility, Enterprise Wide, Human Performance Improvement Initiatives and failed miserably. Despite having one of the largest, bloated staffing levels of ANY Nuclear plant they have continued the downward spiral. And they have a consistent track record of botching their high-dollar, complex, major capital replacement projects – the SG’s being only the latest example.

No one here is happy with the events that have come to pass. But just as in the analogy above, everyone must at some point finally face the consequences of their actions. Fair or Unfair, history is finally catching up to SONGS.


How do you really feel?
 ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL
Title: Songs ops
Post by: Paulers on Sep 10, 2013, 12:06
It is interesting to see what all my Ops coworkers are up to after leaving. Grid Ops, T&D, Engineering, Hydro, Solar, Wind, Ops at different plants, Retirement,  etc..., The place is becoming a real ghost-town. I miss most of you - it was fun. 8)
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: SloGlo on Sep 10, 2013, 02:19
Regardless of the why, its sad to see them shut down.  I worked with some good people there and I still remember sitting out back under a tent, the ocean breeze, listening to the radio and staring out at the ocean as I surveyed items for free release.  Then rudely being brought back to reality by hearing the dreaded GSF (Go See Frank)! Lol.
frank,frank,frank,frank,frank,frank... frank,frank,frank,frank,frank,frank...*

oh, weight!  wrong frank.   :old:

* to bee sung to the tune from the "star spangled banner".
Title: Re: Songs ops
Post by: michael berg on Sep 28, 2013, 12:48
It is interesting to see what all my Ops coworkers are up to after leaving. Grid Ops, T&D, Engineering, Hydro, Solar, Wind, Ops at different plants, Retirement,  etc..., The place is becoming a real ghost-town. I miss most of you - it was fun. 8)

Paulers, Do you know when the decommissioning is beginning in earnest? I know I am already paying for it... I am retiring from Nuke Navy (22 yrs) in two months. I am curious if the deco is a job opportunity.

Mike
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: desertdog on Sep 30, 2013, 07:02
A schedule I saw said the decommissioning is supposed to start 2016.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Wlrun3 on Aug 03, 2014, 01:46
Will this be the pattern of all future commercial nuclear power plant decommissionings in the United States.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/calif-nuclear-plant-to-cost-4-4-billion-to-dismantle/
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: GLW on Aug 03, 2014, 04:40
Will this be the pattern of all future commercial nuclear power plant decommissionings in the United States.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/calif-nuclear-plant-to-cost-4-4-billion-to-dismantle/

The last several commercial decommissionings have been similar,....

Things just cost more as time goes on,...

Plus, once you commit to DnD those who take the radwaste know the utility has to come to them, and the pricing follows, there is some competition, but not much,...

Plus, many utilities have the short visioned approach to reducing legacy radwaste, i.e., they don't, they pack rat and hoard and when the corporate decision to DnD is made they have to shed that legacy radwaste at DnD pricing and on the DnD budget as opposed to spread over a few to several years in the O&M budget cycles,...

There's more,  Characterization & FSS come to mind, but that starts tapping into my expertise more than can be or should be accomodated on an internet forum,...
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on Nov 22, 2014, 03:28
Will this be the pattern of all future commercial nuclear power plant decommissionings in the United States.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/calif-nuclear-plant-to-cost-4-4-billion-to-dismantle/

Shareholders ain't gonna be happy....

http://www.utilitydive.com/news/california-ratepayers-will-pay-33-billion-for-san-onofre-closing/335891/ (http://www.utilitydive.com/news/california-ratepayers-will-pay-33-billion-for-san-onofre-closing/335891/)
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on Feb 11, 2015, 11:01
As predicted. The talk has started:

http://alisoviejo.patch.com/articles/edison-considers-closing-san-onofre-amid-costly-repairs (http://alisoviejo.patch.com/articles/edison-considers-closing-san-onofre-amid-costly-repairs)

http://www.scpr.org/news/2013/04/30/37069/costs-for-san-onofre-nuclear-power-plant-shutdown/ (http://www.scpr.org/news/2013/04/30/37069/costs-for-san-onofre-nuclear-power-plant-shutdown/)

http://www.kcet.org/news/rewire/nuclear/san-onofre-nuclear-plant-may-close-for-good.html (http://www.kcet.org/news/rewire/nuclear/san-onofre-nuclear-plant-may-close-for-good.html)

Looks like the timing of the articles had a little help!


SCE admits to private conversations with Peevey on SONGS closure
By Gavin Bade | February 10, 2015

    Southern California Edison (SCE) admitted Monday to taking part in private conversations with former California Public Utilities Commission (CPUC) Chair Michael Peevey about the closure of the utility's San Onofre Nuclear Generation Station (SONGS).
    Stephen Picket, a former SCE vice president, met with Peevey in a luxury hotel in Warsaw, Poland, in March 2013, the utility said. At the time, the PUC faced multibillion-dollar decisions regarding the closure of the nuclear plant, which SCE owned.
    Communication between utilities and regulators outside the normal PUC process is supposed to be reported to all interested parties within three days. U-T San Diego pointed out that SCE made this disclosure 686 days after the meeting.


http://www.utilitydive.com/news/sce-admits-to-private-conversations-with-peevey-on-songs-closure/362628/?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_term=Utility+Dive&utm_campaign=Issue%3A+2015-02-10+Utility+Dive+Newsletter#.VNqbV6xnE8M.linkedin (http://www.utilitydive.com/news/sce-admits-to-private-conversations-with-peevey-on-songs-closure/362628/?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_term=Utility+Dive&utm_campaign=Issue%3A+2015-02-10+Utility+Dive+Newsletter#.VNqbV6xnE8M.linkedin)


Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: retired nuke on Feb 11, 2015, 11:33

Plus, many utilities have the short visioned approach to reducing legacy radwaste, i.e., they don't, they pack rat and hoard and when the corporate decision to DnD is made they have to shed that legacy radwaste at DnD pricing and on the DnD budget as opposed to spread over a few to several years in the O&M budget cycles,...


Happily, we (VY) made a concerted effort to get all our legacy crap (except SFP stuff) out before shutdown.  8)
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Already Gone on Feb 12, 2015, 03:21
What was the rationale behind doing that?  VY has the unique situation of having to return unspent DnD funds to the VT ratepayers.  How does spending O&M money while saving money that you don't get to keep benefit the company?  Is there a shortage of DnD money that Entergy would have to make up? 
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: GLW on Feb 12, 2015, 05:16
...VY has the unique situation....

I think all DnDs have to return unspent funds and I think FERC regulates the final allotment amongst ratepayers, etc.,...

There is some debate in the current era regarding accountable spending of the DnD funds to protect the leftovers from "skimming", as it were, during DnD,...

There is on-going contentions on that tangent at Zion,...

It does get complicated pretty quickly,...

And besides, this is the SONGS thread, VY is three doors down on the left,... :P ;) :) 8)
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: HydroDave63 on Feb 12, 2015, 10:15
And besides, this is the SONGS thread, VY is three doors down on the left,... :P ;) :) 8)

Nope, 3 doors down and to the left is the IT overseas call center  >:(

http://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2015/feb/07/ticker-edison-screws-its-employees-too/ (http://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2015/feb/07/ticker-edison-screws-its-employees-too/)
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: retired nuke on Feb 13, 2015, 08:14
What was the rationale behind doing that?  VY has the unique situation of having to return unspent DnD funds to the VT ratepayers.  How does spending O&M money while saving money that you don't get to keep benefit the company?  Is there a shortage of DnD money that Entergy would have to make up?  

Sigh...
Decommissioning funds are not sufficient at shutdown to complete decommissioning. That is why Safestor is being used. It allows decommissioning funds to  through investment until sufficient funds are available for decommissioning.
 :-X

And yeah, while Vermont is a wing nut state, it is on the other coast... 3rd door to the right, down the hall to the left   8)
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Dave Warren on Mar 17, 2015, 09:20
Latest rumor: Energy Solutions got the contract to shut down SONGS and HOLTEC will be doing the dry cask.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: GLW on Nov 14, 2015, 02:05
Latest rumor: Energy Solutions got the contract to shut down SONGS and HOLTEC will be doing the dry cask.

not yet,....

but later,...

food for thought on the left coast, best DnD schedule ever,....

Wednesday through Wednesday 12.5's,...

Thursday through Tuesday off,...

clock in on Wednesday morning and start over,....

I'm just saying,.... [coffee]
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: milo124 on Feb 22, 2016, 11:10
Rumor has it that bids for the DND were submitted?
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: GLW on Feb 22, 2016, 11:18
DGC selection due in May,...

Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: SloGlo on Feb 22, 2016, 06:33
now theirs a sight eye could due a six month commit.
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: Tattoo on Feb 29, 2016, 08:55
Rumor going around the last plant was that it was going to be union?  Am I understanding that no bids have been accepted yet?
Title: Re: San Onofre (SONGS)
Post by: SpyCat on Jan 15, 2020, 01:26
For the curious, the latest news on SONGS' DnD can be found at this public site: https://www.songscommunity.com