San Onofre (SONGS)

[GLW]

Do you think there will be a lot of D & D work when they decide to shut San Onofre down for good?

Nah, by that time we'll just be waving magic wands and sprinkling pixie dust to make those containment domes go away,....

Geez Luweeze Content, some days, some days,......

[HydroDave63]

Do you think there will be a lot of D & D work when they decide to shut San Onofre down for good?

Sure, in 2050, let a few t_1/2 go by and most of it can go to landfill. Won't help the job scene within the context of this thread for anyone currently working...

[Nuke of the North]

Like I posted before, the talk is already starting. Specifically, it's looking as if some are vewing a potential permanent shutown of SONGS as a golden opportunity to kill several birds with one stone:

California energy officials are beginning to plan for the possibility of a long-range future without the San Onofre nuclear power plant...

...That long-range planning process already involves dealing with the possible repercussions of climate change, a mandate to boost the state's use of renewable sources to 33% of the energy supply by 2020 and another mandate to phase out a process known as once-through cooling, which uses ocean water to cool coastal power plants, that will probably take some other plants out of service.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-san-onofre-20120624,0,2982359.story

In just about any other scenarion, the thought of shutting down a plant like SONGS would probably be unthinkable. However, in the current context one single word completely changes that whole equation for the worse - "Kalifornia".

[Ksheed]

In just about any other scenario, the thought of shutting down a plant like SONGS would probably be unthinkable. However, in the current context one single word completely changes that whole equation for the worse - "Kalifornia".

To understand it you have to think like a "Kalifornian". Songs represents ~7.85% of their total in-state electricity production. They only produce 71% of what they consume. My math may be wrong, but I think that puts SONGS's output at about 5.5% of their total consumption. They probably plan to replace it with energy conservation and renewable sources. Whatever shortfalls they have they can purchase from the dirt burners and nukes of the southwest. As long as it is not being produced in their state, who cares where the electricity comes from.

http://energyalmanac.ca.gov/overview/energy_sources.html

[HydroDave63]

To understand it you have to think like a "Kalifornian". Songs represents ~7.85% of their total in-state electricity production. They only produce 71% of what they consume. My math may be wrong, but I think that puts SONGS's output at about 5.5% of their total consumption. They probably plan to replace it with energy conservation and renewable sources. Whatever shortfalls they have they can purchase from the dirt burners and nukes of the southwest. As long as it is not being produced in their state, who cares where the electricity comes from.

http://energyalmanac.ca.gov/overview/energy_sources.html

Well, unless they are gonna install a 200 MW wind farm that ties into both Sempra's system and west of a couple fancy 230 kV subs in south Orange County, it won't help the SCIT limit much and there will still be voltage problems.

Now where did I leave my Masslin mop...

[Ksheed]

Well, unless they are gonna install a 200 MW wind farm that ties into both Sempra's system and west of a couple fancy 230 kV subs in south Orange County, it won't help the SCIT limit much and there will still be voltage problems.

No argument from me on it. I was just guessing their plan. I'm sure they wont mind purchasing another 5% from out-of-state sources. They are already purchasing 29% of their usage.

How to measure a successful day: Did you produce more than you consumed?

[hamsamich]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoreham_Nuclear_Power_Plant

not just Kalifornians.....longislandians too

[GLW]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoreham_Nuclear_Power_Plant

not just Kalifornians.....longislandians too

I beg to differ,...

[HydroDave63]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoreham_Nuclear_Power_Plant

not just Kalifornians.....longislandians too

More like

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rancho_Seco_Nuclear_Generating_Station

Both SONGS and Rancho had/have years to go on license that allow sufficient time to gently recapitalize the ($400 million/ $1 billion??) needed to fix what ails them and move on. Yet there was a common thread at play...

[Fermi2]

Time for some rolling blackouts though in truth, if you were a citizen of California would you trust SONGs? I'm not saying they have done anything untrustworthy however we say constantly people should trust us after all we're the experts. Then something like this happens.

[Ksheed]

I copied this from a news story featured in Nukeworker's Nuclear News section.

Other questions concerned the level of radioactive gas leakage, the necessity of independent analysis, the possibility of using alternative wind and solar energy sources as well as reducing energy demand through conservation.

http://www.lagunabeachindependent.com/2012/06/26/long-hot-summer-debate-san-onofre-2/

[HydroDave63]

True, the other scary scenario is that the rotating load sheds in a long,hot sweltering summer DON'T happen.

Right now the weather is mild, and power in most of that area has ranged from 46 cents to 14 bucks and change per MWh today. Wind is blowing nicely. Nat gas around $2.75/MMBtu. Let's all hope for a successful restart soon.

[btkeele]

More like

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rancho_Seco_Nuclear_Generating_Station

Both SONGS and Rancho had/have years to go on license that allow sufficient time to gently recapitalize the ($400 million/ $1 billion??) needed to fix what ails them and move on. Yet there was a common thread at play...

One major difference is that the Ranch was owned by a public municipality...Songs is owned by SCE and no matter how many loonies protest, they cannot shut the plant down... the NRC can refuse to give them the keys, but, the public can whine and cry and lie all they want... the decision at Songs is up to SCE with the NRC's approval.

[Nuke of the North]

Songs is owned by SCE and no matter how many loonies protest, they cannot shut the plant down...

Wanna Bet?

The feckless leadership at SCE already proved they are willing and capable of such a feat when they pulled the rug out from under U1. All they need is the green light from the PUC to stick it to the rate base to recapture the outstanding capital investment, and SONGS will be just a memory from one of Bryson's seizure's.

[hamsamich]

OK just SOME Longislanders....I'm sure some had no issues.

[btkeele]

Wanna Bet?

The feckless leadership at SCE already proved they are willing and capable of such a feat when they pulled the rug out from under U1. All they need is the green light from the PUC to stick it to the rate base to recapture the outstanding capital investment, and SONGS will be just a memory from one of Bryson's seizure's.

You made my point...SCE leadership can, the public (like at SMUD) cannot

[QCguy]

 http://www.danapointtimes.com/view/full_story/19874356/article-SONGS-to-Layoff-730?instance=DP-eye_on_sc

Songs to lay off 730.  Union can't be reached for comment.   U2 may restart, U3 is iffy without a SG replacement. 

    10 years ago or so SCE looked at Songs manning and determined that a double unit non-fleet plant should have about 1000 to 1100 workers.  SONGS had about 1400 at that time,  but the empire building went on, and the current report is 2100 workers now.

IMHO  SONGS problems haven't been upper management, but the mid-level GFs opposed change, promotion of under-managers who held those same values,  a bloated engineering department which plays CYA and a major league case of refusal to accept personal responsibility for bad results.

[milo124]

I enjoyed working a couple of outages at SONGS and hopefully they'll get their act together.

[Nuke of the North]

10 years ago or so SCE looked at Songs manning and determined that a double unit non-fleet plant should have about 1000 to 1100 workers.  SONGS had about 1400 at that time,  but the empire building went on, and the current report is 2100 workers now.

IMHO  SONGS problems haven't been upper management, but the mid-level GFs opposed change, promotion of under-managers who held those same values,  a bloated engineering department which plays CYA and a major league case of refusal to accept personal responsibility for bad results.

Unfortunately, I must concur with this assessment.

And the other info is in line with what I'm hearing from my contacts there now:

U3 is likely done for good - unless SCE can convince the CPUC to authorize yet another set of new S/G's (unlikely).
At best, U2 is a permanently de-rated plant going forward. But if SONGS falls out of the Rate Base, all bets are off.
Edison Mission Energy (EME) is underwater due to all of the bad coal-fired plant investments and headed either for bankruptcy court or the auction block very soon.
SCE still hasn't won approval for their latest rate increase request - made pre-shutdown.
All of this is finally starting to drag on the EIX bottom line and share price.

In CA, there is an automatic Rate Base Removal review triggered at 9 months for a non-performing asset. SONGS will hit that on November 1. However all of the usual kook suspects, as well as an increasing corus of mainstream advocates are demanding SONGS be dropped from the rate base now given that SCE has admitted neither Unit will be online before 11/1.
Also, practically every City Council within a 30 mile radius of the plant has gone on record and petitioned the CPUC and NRC asking that SONGS be mothballed, as well as most of the local newspapers, and a significant number of CA politicians.

This is all terrible news for what once was a celebrity plant in the US.

[tolstoy]

Whew! Interviewed there a few months ago and received a telephone call saying that they were unsure about filling the position at the time. I wallowed in depression for a week positive that I had black marker across my forehead during my interview. Now I am clicking my heals for that call. I would have about two months of work in and probably a nice fat year long lease on a very expensive home. And no job.

[HydroDave63]

Has anyone benchmarked a single unit PWR site with 1500 employees...?


Radioactive Fuel to be Emptied from San Onofre Reactor
Monday, Aug 27, 2012 

The operator of the San Onofre nuclear power plant is preparing to pull the radioactive fuel from one of its two shuttered reactors.

Nuclear Regulatory Commission senior inspector Gregory Warnick told The Associated Press on Monday that the fuel in the Unit 3 reactor will be moved into storage in mid-September.

It is another sign the Southern California plant won't be operating at full capacity anytime soon, if ever.

Last week, Southern California Edison announced that it was cutting 730 jobs from the plant, citing rising operational costs and uncertainty over the plant's future as an energy-generating company.

In January, the Unit 3 reactor was shut down as a precaution after a tube leak. Unit 2 was taken offline earlier that month. Neither units have been operational since.

"The reality is that the Unit 3 reactor will not be operating for some time," SCE, which manages the San Onofre Nuclear Generating Station, stated last week in its announcement.



http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Radioactive-Fuel-to-be-Emptied-from-San-Onofre-Reactor-167637635.html

[Nuke of the North]

Has anyone benchmarked a single unit PWR site with 1500 employees...?

Unfortunately, that's the key here. This 730 number is the result of a commitment SCE made to the CPUC back in 2010 simply to reach parity with other 2 Unit sites. It doesn't address staffing numbers should U3 go down permanently, and obviously isn't the final number should both units shutdown and SONGS goes into caretaking status.

It's also starting to dawn on the local communities that this will be devastating to their economies:

http://www.sanclementetimes.com/2012/08/30/songs-layoffs-whats-the-hit-nuclear-plant-job-cuts-a-worry-for-local-economy/

These are all highly paid workers and long term residents with homes and families in these communities. I can't think of any worse news for the area right now, particularly given that many of these folks are my friends. 

[Crusher]

http://nuclearpowernews.blogspot.com/2012/10/facebook-hits-new-milestone-everything.html

The restart plan has been submitted, but Allison MacFarlane is stating she will watch it like a hawk.  Unit 2 will only come online in a limited capacity next year and Unit 3 is highly suspect.  We better hope for a nice cool summer in 2013 or blackouts could happen.  Energy prices will skyrocket as they loss is already $165,000,000 by June 2012.  It's going to be long and ugly. 

[Nuke of the North]

It's going to be long and ugly. 

Could be even longer than they think

The Nuclear Regulatory Commission is considering if the complex proposal submitted by operator Southern California Edison last week to repair and start the damaged Unit 2 reactor will require an amendment to San Onofre's operating license, Regional Administrator Elmo Collins told reporters.

Such reviews can involve a thicket of public hearings, appeals and commission actions on safety and design issues that can take as long as two years to complete.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/49336220

Of course SCE is arguing this doesn't require a 50.59, butsome would argue that's how they got into this jam in the first place.

By the time every Micro-Blogger or Soccer-Mom living in SoCal is done testifying before the NRC, SONGS' license may be expired anyway!

[HydroDave63]

The plan of action, seen in pages 3 and 4 of the CAL, looks pretty solid with lots of industry support. 

http://pbadupws.nrc.gov/docs/ML1228/ML12285A263.pdf