San Onofre (SONGS)

[btkeele]

I agree, so show me in this case where SCE has done any of this...once they had the tube leak in U3, they shut it down and started looking for answers...they immediately expanded scope to U2...from where I sit they have made nothing but ultra-conservative decisions and have been taking their time in developing a recovery plan while at the same time trying to determine the cause.
Don't take 1 anonymous internet personalities opinions and think for a second that it reflects the plant operators plans.
I'm just asking that we wait for the process to play out before jumping to conclusions.

and a little support would be nice...

[GLW]

is this nukeworker or anti-nukeworker?  It seems from the comments of a few here that you are almost gloating in the
wake of the issues going on here at SONGS.  I'm confused as to why that is?  Is it just a personal conflict with MS or is there
a reason?  Have you worked here?  Lately?  I don't hear the same scorn for the issues at Crystal River, or other sites...so what is
it about Songs that has you in this mood?
FYI:  having followed this thread and mostly ignoring it because of the feud and mis-information being bantered about, the letter
that was issued by the NRC to Songs pretty much followed the exact plan the utility put out weeks ago for recovery...nothing new.

Barry

because it is a rare thing for users from those other sites to come to a public forum with a "remain calm, all is well, things are not as they appear" mantra,...

those users have enough sense to let those persons whose job it is to convey information to the general public let those persons handle communicating with the general public and keep their own focus on what they do within the organization,...

not because of "truth" but because very few people in a crew as large as a nuclear utility have all the information they need to communicate effectively and comprehensively,...

kicking back with Crew A looking at Thing B on Monitor #4 is not a comprehensive understanding of the whole scenario, it is also why the tank driver is not the tank commander,...

it also leaves the user in a position where he pretty dam well better toe the company line on a public forum, I can assure you the user has a lot less comprehensive data at his disposal than the decision makers in that users organization,...

a poor, incorrectly substantiated public critique of your employers processes is a valid cause for dismissal and a disservice to the industry,...

in short, the user steps in front of the bleachers wearing the team uniform, he has to be a cheerleader, if he doesn't and he is wrong on the details he has no knowledge of (and he will be), he's toast,...and he should be,....

okay,...that's all the answer I have for your question about SONGS posters to these boards, good fortune with your recovery from these challenges, it looks like the lessons learned will be at least 3 volumes worth and maybe even a new NUREG,...

[RDTroja]

I agree, so show me in this case where SCE has done any of this...once they had the tube leak in U3, they shut it down and started looking for answers...they immediately expanded scope to U2...from where I sit they have made nothing but ultra-conservative decisions and have been taking their time in developing a recovery plan while at the same time trying to determine the cause.
Don't take 1 anonymous internet personalities opinions and think for a second that it reflects the plant operators plans.
I'm just asking that we wait for the process to play out before jumping to conclusions.

and a little support would be nice...

I did not say that SCE had done anything. I am sure that they are handling public relations in a professional manner and giving out the proper amount of information as it is known.

My issue is with a poster who (as far as I can tell) is an employee but not spokesperson for SCE and has tried to pass off the whole mess as 'business as usual' when it clearly is not. There is a difference between supporting the company and giving out false or misleading information. I understand (from many previous posts) that he is being a cheerleader and I don't find fault with that. However, there is a point where the cheerleader has to take off the blindfold and either admit that something is wrong or at least stop arguing with the people who understand that the situation is more than just a minor 'pay no attention, nothing to see here' event.

I am a very vocal proponent for Nuclear Power and I support all of the utilities that work hard to make things right. I have absolutely nothing against SONGS or SCE. I strongly believe that recognizing probelms is the first necessary step to correcting them. I suspect SCE is doing (has done) that. But the individual I was replying to and referencing in my posts has not. His attitude is detrimental to SONGS and nuclear power in general because he refuses to recognize that anything is wrong when everyone else, even the uneducated masses, can clearly see that there is.

[Fermi2]

I'm neither Pro or Con SCE. I haven't worked there so I don't know. I do know a couple years ago the NRC felt they had one of the worst Corrective Action Programs in the country and that's not something the NRC just makes up.
What does bother me is having a major event and someone from that facility acting like it's just another day in the industry even after some of us who have been around for a LONG time know it's not. Non Nuclear people read these forums too, and I'd wager a few of them are Antis. When they see a person like that acting as a default spokesperson for their facility it does NOT matter that the rest of us protest, what they see is a person, with unescorted access, a trained nukeworker saying Ho Hum. I resent it and to have people think that scares me. Fact is, it wasn't until presented with irrefutable evidence that he changed his tone and to date he has not said he was wrong and that he'd change his behavior. He reminds me of the Kevin Bacon "Nothing is wrong" scene in Animal House.

I hope SCE does do a world class Root Cause and overcomes it because at least it casts some sunshine on all of us.

[Chimera]

Speaking only from my personal perspective as an HP Tech (and Reactor Operator, Refueling Engineer, Rad Engineer, Rad Safety Officer, Construction Inspector, etc.) and having worked at SONGS off and on between 1982 and 2006, one of the things that always impressed me about SONGS was that, when something did go wrong or, at least, not according to plan, they would stop, regroup, decide on their course of action, brief everyone involved, and then tackle the problem.

I'll admit they have thoroughly ticked me off at times, but, compared to some other sites I've been at, they don't rush in until they're pretty sure of what they're doing.  If the problem they're tackling has ramifications to other jobs or the other unit, that is taken into account and taken care of.  Having said all that, their long-term corrective action program does seem to leave a lot to be desired.  However, having not been involved in that side of the action, I can't speak for what all they do to accomplish their corrective action items.  I've only seen how they respond when things go wrong in the middle of the job.

Michael

[Bigchris]

In order to help me understand the criticism that MeterSwangin is receiving from some posters here, it would be helpful if his critics could show how they have been critical of their own employers in these forums. It may be impossible to compare apples to apples, but perhaps they can provide some examples or explain the reasoning behind their decisions to discuss their own plants, in ways that would probably be OK with their bosses, if that is in fact what they have done.


The following post seems like a pragmatic position to take if you want to keep your job.

You have to be real careful about lessons you post too. Technical and human performance lessons are great. You have to watch Safety Lessons and lessons that have to do with the way your company actually does business as some things are business sensitive AND some safety items can be subject to a lawsuit.

It's often easier to be a cheerleader than a team leader; cheerleaders don't have to worry about "Ethic Cleansing."1

Perhaps a balance between cheerleader and team leader is appropriate?


1.INPO "HRO Safety Culture Definition An Integrated Approach" Jan 2010

[Fermi2]

In order to help me understand the criticism that MeterSwangin is receiving from some posters here, it would be helpful if his critics could show how they have been critical of their own employers in these forums. It may be impossible to compare apples to apples, but perhaps they can provide some examples or explain the reasoning behind their decisions to discuss their own plants, in ways that would probably be OK with their bosses, if that is in fact what they have done.


The following post seems like a pragmatic position to take if you want to keep your job.
It's often easier to be a cheerleader than a team leader; cheerleaders don't have to worry about "Ethic Cleansing."1

Perhaps a balance between cheerleader and team leader is appropriate?


1.INPO "HRO Safety Culture Definition An Integrated Approach" Jan 2010

Incorrect. That has nothing to do with balancing anything. If someone gets injured at your plant you best watch what you say before it is cleared by the legal beagles as you might end up being someones star witness because of something you said on the internet. In truth anything you post about your plant operations on an open forum could be classified as business proprietary.

That is a far cry from pretending ruptured tubes in nearly new Steam Generators is "normal and expected"

[RDTroja]

In order to help me understand the criticism that MeterSwangin is receiving from some posters here, it would be helpful if his critics could show how they have been critical of their own employers in these forums. It may be impossible to compare apples to apples, but perhaps they can provide some examples or explain the reasoning behind their decisions to discuss their own plants, in ways that would probably be OK with their bosses, if that is in fact what they have done.


The following post seems like a pragmatic position to take if you want to keep your job.
It's often easier to be a cheerleader than a team leader; cheerleaders don't have to worry about "Ethic Cleansing."1

Perhaps a balance between cheerleader and team leader is appropriate?


1.INPO "HRO Safety Culture Definition An Integrated Approach" Jan 2010

No one has asked him to be critical... it would, however, be nice for him to drop the Pollyanna 'everything is beautiful' attitude, at least until he was sure of what he was talking about. If he chooses to be silent rather than admit that the problems exist, that would be better than trying to convince people that know better that everything is all right.

[Ksheed]

He reminds me of the Kevin Bacon "Nothing is wrong" scene in Animal House.

"REMAIN CALM! ALL IS WELL!! REMAIN CALM! ALL IS WELL!!"

[Frankie Love]

http://atomicinsights.com/2011/02/arnie-gundersen-has-inflated-his-resume-yet-frequently-claims-that-entergy-cannot-be-trusted.html

Me thinks Arnie needs to be investigated. Like the wife says...there are three sides to a story...

[tr]

In truth anything you post about your plant operations on an open forum could be classified as business proprietary.

Easiest advice for anyone involved in these type of situations is to only quote what is publicly available (NRC web page, newspapers, etc), and just use their non-public knowledge to ensure that the stories they choose to link to or quote are the ones that are accurate.

[Rennhack]

Easiest advice for anyone involved in these type of situations is to only quote what is publicly available (NRC web page, newspapers, etc), and just use their non-public knowledge to ensure that the stories they choose to link to or quote are the ones that are accurate.

Great advice.

[Ksheed]

San Onofre repair bill nears $65m
http://analysis.nuclearenergyinsider.com/new-build/weekly-intelligence-brief-2-%E2%80%93-9-may-2012?utm_source=http%3a%2f%2fuk.nuclearenergyinsider.com%2ffc_nei_decomlz%2f&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=NEI+e-brief+0905&utm_term=What+the+new+safety+regime+means+for+US+nuclear+plant+operators&utm_content=140520
See bottom of page.

[drayer54]

Monday May 14th. I'm sure this will be a factual and unbiased show designed not to scare you for ratings.....

[radbrat]

So... I'm sitting here really bored and lurking, 0400 on my last nite shift post Fermi outage. Seems the engineer didnt consider or miscalculated the fluid dynamics of his/her "like for like" S/G's and oscillations occurred. Would it...do ya think...be feasible to chemically clean the secondary side (nitric acid), install a recirc pump with heater tank and chemical add tank. Then fill up the secondary with a compatible soluble metal solution and instead of EC probes, run an electro current transducer on the primary side to electroplate the thin wall areas and the support brackets to damper the vibrations in the tubes. Did I mention I was really bored???

[HeavyD]

THIS is what happens on the mid-watch underway!  A bored Nuke can come up with some creative, ingenious and sometimes downright dangerous ideas

[HydroDave63]

So... I'm sitting here really bored and lurking, 0400 on my last nite shift post Fermi outage. Seems the engineer didnt consider or miscalculated the fluid dynamics of his/her "like for like" S/G's and oscillations occurred. Would it...do ya think...be feasible to chemically clean the secondary side (nitric acid), install a recirc pump with heater tank and chemical add tank. Then fill up the secondary with a compatible soluble metal solution and instead of EC probes, run an electro current transducer on the primary side to electroplate the thin wall areas and the support brackets to damper the vibrations in the tubes. Did I mention I was really bored???

Nope, different components would "clean" faster than others, and your electroplating gizmo would have to run gazunga amps into the S/G....this isn't a radiator from a 1996 Chevy truck we're talking about!

[tr]

Apparently both units will be offline all summer.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-0608-san-onofre-20120608,0,3658394.story

http://www1.lex18.com/news/california-blackouts-possible-with-nuclear-plant-offline/

[HeavyD]

Things aren't looking too good for the home team

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/industries/ap-exclusive-regulators-suspect-design-flaw-caused-tube-trouble-at-idled-calif-nuke-plant/2012/06/18/gJQAQ8s3kV_story.html

[Marlin]

Things aren't looking too good for the home team

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/industries/ap-exclusive-regulators-suspect-design-flaw-caused-tube-trouble-at-idled-calif-nuke-plant/2012/06/18/gJQAQ8s3kV_story.html

   Speaking of not looking so good, I know it's been a very long time since I was at SONGS but that is a crappy looking beach compared to the one I remember. Do I have a bad memory or has something happened to it. We use to drive out of the SONGS gate and right into the the State park to play volleyball several times a week on what I remember as a nice sandy beach.

[HydroDave63]

There should be some parking spots opening up on the Mesa...

[Nuke of the North]

There should be some parking spots opening up on the Mesa...

Nah, those spots will be needed for the decommissioning crew. Once talk of de-rating the plant starts floating around, thoughts of permanent shutdown usually aren't far behind.

[UncaBuffalo]

   Speaking of not looking so good, I know it's been a very long time since I was at SONGS but that is a crappy looking beach compared to the one I remember. Do I have a bad memory or has something happened to it. We use to drive out of the SONGS gate and right into the the State park to play volleyball several times a week on what I remember as a nice sandy beach.

http://www.nukeworker.com/pictures/displayimage.php?&pos=-4991%20target=

I think the one in the article looks so bad because it is:

1. Further down beach.  and
2. Lower tide?

I miss SONGS beach volleyball, too...

[btkeele]

Unca...You are right on the pic...the beach is still nice and the, um, scenery on the beach is still
awesome...california girls...gotta luv em...

btw, don't believe what you read on the AP news report...

[Content1]

Do you think there will be a lot of D & D work when they decide to shut San Onofre down for good?