Rent a tech Union debate

[Marlin]

OCAW tried to organize road techs in the late 70's, IBEW would be a better choice. I still think that the nature of the job and the people will preclude a successful attempt to organize. Individuals will be called on to sacrifice for the whole, and all will have to speak and act as one. The resources to provide representation for a "national" local is going to take some deep pockets to start (IBEW), logistics of communication and voting will take a lot of work from union members (you). IBEW national did not show a lot of control of the HP locals in the last attempt, which will be needed to succeed. Who will define what a HP tech is, a 3.1 at one facility may not meet the requirements at another due to specific experience requirements. Should a plant the wants primarily BWR experience be forced to accept PWR experienced HP because they are closer to home? How is a grievance process going to work with the tech in question already at another facility or at home in another state? What benefit is there to the facilities to negotiate with a union? The downside is clear what will the union provide as a benefit, documented training, verification of resumes and experince, common manpower pool, or a database?

[alphadude]

not way off base- dead on center.  there is no dem vs rep in the union issue. Unions back the democratic platform.

Ahh yes the OCAW i remember those days, Silkwood was OCAW. When we told Duke we didnt want IBEW but wanted OCAW, boy did we get the cold shoulder. I got shipped to environmental (since I was passing out cards-oh well). 

With the IBEW, we didnt get much voice because the linemen ruled the roost there. But it was all good. We must remember that most of our exempt wages were based on union scale.


As far as call out, perdiam, etc these issues are well established and unions have methods to handle this.

[ramdog_1]

As far as call out, perdiam, etc these issues are well established and unions have methods to handle this.  
So what are the methods?

[alphadude]

callout is based on senior most qualified. an updated callout list is maintained with OT hours and offered hours. hours offered and turned down are counted as hours worked on the list. thus the low hour person will rise to the top. you may be forced to show up in the event of low hours etc.

usually an apprentice may come in at the apprentice rate if the work is to qualify this person as journeyman; apprentice may work as jouneyman if qualified on that task.

perdiam is negociated and paid for by the company that requests a jouneyman to travel away from their home work site-in other words your assigned work station.  the company usually pays perdiam not the union although it goes through the union to offer it equally.. and so on.

supervisor upgrade- usually paid at time and half, not professional rates.  (normal rate or comp rates) your OT hours worked do not go on the call out list and when you return to the craft you may be low on the list. however if the union works more OT than you, you may drop down the list since technically you turned down the OT. (depends on the local agreement)

it goes on and on. take a class in union contract management-it really helps. a union contract is just as binding as the contract between you and your bank for your house loan. failure to follow the contract has legal ramifications and should be fully implemented by both parties- in other words the union has an obligation to provide a quality product.  slackers should be dealt with by the union as well as management.

[justme]

Another big question never answered:  who decides which tech gets asked for a particular job?  When you have 2 plants down at the same time, one is a good plant to work at (i.e. Diablo Canyon) and the other is a plant that no one cares to go to due to low money, and high dose (i.e. Perry).  Tech A is a continual returnee to the good plant and excellent tech and is asked for by the plant, Tech B has never worked there and is a so-so tech (face it there are techs out there no one cares for because of bad work ethic).  Would one be limited by geography as to where one works? Or that they work alot?  Should Tech A be penalized and not allowed to work at a plant they like because they are not "next on the list".  I personally like the freedom to choose where I work and don't care for lists. Seems to me another layer to get my jobs, the contract companies are enough.
Also, not all 27 year techs are neccesarily better than the ones right out of school.  I've seen too many long time techs who can pass tests, but can't provide good coverage.  Just a 20 year observation.

Wages, and decent benefits are good.  But I don't know if it is feasible in this day and age when so many places with union contracts have been giving up or drastically reducing health benefits because of cost.

[justme]

Come to think of it,a plant like Diablo wouldn't be a problem, they already hire people on as union employees.  They hire their own people as temporary additionals and pay well. 
 

[biloxoi blues]

IM not sure but the plants might have to hire from the local union hall which might benifit the retired house techs who are still in the area who would also have seniority espicially if they were already a union plant.  IM not sure of this but its just something to throw out there. Happy New Year everyone.  Go Gators

[wlrun3@aol.com]

   ...half of those now involved in rp, permanent or temporary, will have left by 2010...given that, and all that it suggests, makes this topic moot...

[let-it-ride]

Hey Everyone,

GIVE IT A BREAK!!

This has been going on since 1990. Nothing has been solved or will there.

It seems as if you are just talking to hear your self talk.

If there was the chance of a UNION don't you think a UNION would have already got involved and signed everyone up???

Why should they when a site cooridnator would work as a junior and all the other stories that you know about.

We are not talking about alot of people anymore. And to have someone get involved for people who may work 4-5 months a year, WHY??!!

I agree we should make as much as someone that gets $3000 a week to change light bulbs. But it AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN!!

Just buy a lottery ticket.

[SloGlo]

jist two stik my neck out here, but iffen everybuddy that thought a union didn't have a chance wood git outa da conversation, maybe the ones who wood like to see a union move on the issue wood git a chance at that without having to deal with alla negativity. 

re: what statisticals demograph which group.... ya better look at yer parking lot during election time.  der's alot of republican candidates' bumper stickers on union vehicles.  dats da workers opinions, not what da national committee says.

re: iffen a union wanted to represent workers woodent de already have signed everybuddy up.... duh, ya ain't signed; are ya feeling hurt 'n left out or are ya wanting to sign up?  a union can't sign up those who don't sign a card.  witch is why they want ~65% signed before they go to election. 

re: 1990.... lots has changed, lots has been learned.  yinz gonna live ina past or be in the now working for da future?  1990 was also da heyday of ffd purgement.   obviously ya moved on from that, has yer pay?

re: alla da fine points of contractual work.... ain't this a tiny bit anal, considering there ain't no contract, proposed or in effect?  yer beating a horse that ain't born yet.

re: da balance of da beacheen.... awwwww nebber mine.

[let-it-ride]

 
SloGo
Sometimes, like this, you make sense
But I think many times you are still a dreamer. (not that there is anything wrong with that).
If it was in a unions benefit to sign us up, don't you think they would have been looking to find anyone who has ever been in the business to sign up?
We are still a group that will go where they don't want to etc etc to have a job. OK ya do what ya hafta do to support your family. That always comes first.
We have always been looked as "Support who has to do what they are told". and for the most part we do.
We are still looked at as a "necessary evil that we have to put up with".
That's just the way is has been and still is.
A guy once told me "he isn't here to work, but to get a check", I said hey you must be an HP. He proudly said Hell Yes.

[jjordan]

Oh so many issues and soooo much negativity. Ok first like SloGlow said, there isn't a contract yet, so all of the scennarios that I've read are a moot point. Theese are all possibilities after we, no change that to you win the right to negotiate collectively. That means all together as one. This will be no small feat, with some many different issues and concerns. Keep all of thoose ideas in your heads and propose your favorites when you attempt to draft a contract. Vote for the ones you like, agianst the ones you don't. As for a union recruiting you, like SloGlow said, you have to sign a card authorizing the IBEW to help you bargain collectively. They aren't going to twist your arm and force you, this is your choice. I just can't believe that anyone could be content and lay there and let them keep putting the boots to you. We are starting to staff our outage, and I feel really sorry for the rentatechs. It has gotten way worse than when I was doing it, and you all say "Thank You Sir, May I Have Another?" A lot of you blame Bartlett and Atlantic or some of the other head hunters. Go back and read Eric's post again, and read between the lines a little. He isn't supposed to say some of the things he posted. But again he said he's staffed both union and non union. So why would they all of a sudden have a problem with you if you win the right to organize? Why would Atlantic? I'm a former Knuckle dragger myself. My union card is in the construction craft, and if Atlantic had a contract at a union site, they would pay me union scale. I would be responsible for my travelers book, and dues, . I'd make money and Atlantic would make money. Where's the problem? This is America a capitalistic country, god bless the greedy! It is run on supply and demand. If you want it you have to pay. If there isn't any available, you have to pay way more. The utilities are the ones that are trying to do outages without you. You are the lifes blood of Bartlett and such. Without you working, Eric looses everything,. He wants you working, union or not! You've got to crawl before you walk, and walk before you run. You've got to get the cards signed first,. I'm going to help you here, and I don't even have a dawg in this fight! The movement isn't dead, only I think a few of the posters spirits are! Quit living in the 90's, Hell Al Gore invented the internet since then to help you better organize. Use it!
Love You Guys!
JJ

[Marlin]

The movement isn't dead, only I think a few of the posters spirits are.Quit living in the 90's, JJ

He who forgets the past is condemned to repeat it. There are a lot of "Lessons Learned" from the first couple of attempts that need to be addressed and from the title of this thread I assumed that opposing opinions were welcome. I supported and stood on the picket line for the last one. If you are going try again you will have to address everyones questions and concerns, especially for those who went through the last attempt. If a little negative feedback on this site will deter you........

[jjordan]

He who forgets the past is condemned to repeat it. There are a lot of "Lessons Learned" from the first couple of attempts that need to be addressed and from the title of this thread I assumed that opposing opinions were welcome. I supported and stood on the picket line for the last one. If you are going try again you will have to address everyones questions and concerns, especially for those who went through the last attempt. If a little negative feedback on this site will deter you........

I haven't forgotten it! I was there also. I signed a card. I didn't walk, because I was at a union site, Davis Besse, it was a timing thing. If I would have been working with you , I would have been standing right beside you. I'll try and address everyones questions and concerns, but as I just stated, the contract doesn't exist. Maybe I can write up possible scennarios, to show how it could possibly work. But only if approved by the majority. What I learned from the last attempt is, you have to have the right people involved in the organizing campaign. I believe we were seriously misled by a few self serving individual, that maybe thought they could secure a high paying no load position with the union at our expense. I welcome everyones opinion, this is a forum. I hope I didn't come across that way. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and I respect that. I can't quite understand it , but respect that! I promise that what happened last time won't happen this time. The IBEW doesn't reccomend strikes or work stopages. that's only as a last resort. We weren't even reccognized by the NLRB before they called for a walkout. That's why I think we were missled. We now have the power of the internet, to help us get information, coordinate, and communicate. It's going to be a lengthly process, so the sooner the better.
JJ

[jjordan]

Yes, that would be a great open discussion.  Sounds like the unions I've always known in the past.

I hate it for you George! What union was that? Were you a member? Did you do anything to try and change it if you were a member? I welcome your comments and opinions!
Thanks,
JJ

[illegalsmile]

Just a little Point of Info here..... Our Nation's Constitution wasn't the first effort to organize this country. What if they had given up when the Articles of Confederation didn't work?

[SloGlo]

Yes, that would be a great open discussion.  Sounds like the unions I've always known in the past.

yeah, well der ain't no union, so it can't sound like that.  i didn't rite that to cajole yinz inta ennything.  i yam simply tired of hearing the same old crap about how nutting will work.  negative crap belongs ina bathroom, or a positron interaction lab, you pick,  k?  i know good and bad points of unions.  i know good and bad points of i.b.e.w. 1500 'n how ya coodent get any news on it, not even outa cns, abc, cbs,nbc when ya told them where the actions were occurring.  collusion is a tarrible thang.  but, to keep going on about that is a bit, hmmmmmm, immature because it shows a lack of growth.  i kin say unions stink or are grate, but it duzn't change anything.  i thought a debate wuz a regulated discussion of a proposition between two matched sides, knot a yelling match. 

iffen i wanted yelling 'n screaming, i'd git a job ata daycare center.  da bennies wood probably be better.

[ramdog_1]

Well there is no Union , and if it came down to me making my house payments I am going to work.

[jocro]

Ramdog illustrates my point (back a couple of pages) exactly and demonstrates the "line" that would have to be dealt with should the union eventually materialize.  The separate point of view in this thread cannot possibly compare to the "yellin" to be heard when the houses bring in non-union people becuase of some argument.  The give and take is a good thing, even if it stings a little, and just cause you don't like the way another person writes doesn't make their view negative or unacceptable.  Unions have ALWAYS been like that.
I've been in OCAW, the Steelworkers and IBEW at some point, somewhere along the 25 years in this business, and shorterm "feeding the kids" needs usually irritates someone with a longer viewpoint about security and growth.
Congrats to JJordan and the heads who want to push this idea.  It has merit, and should be pursued, and when a LARGE majority of the roadies see where they can get behind it, its gonna be a good thing, but NOT withoutgrowing pains.

[Marlin]

Congrats to JJordan and the heads who want to push this idea.  It has merit, and should be pursued, and when a LARGE majority of the roadies see where they can get behind it, its gonna be a good thing, but NOT withoutgrowing pains.

Until organizers create their own site Nukeworker is the best Forum available. I suspect this will become a very long thread.

**********************************************

As a general comment to all posters please keep it civil to prevent movement of this thread to PolySci as this is a topic of general interest.

[SloGlo]

Well there is no Union , and if it came down to me making my house payments I am going to work.

over the hill frum my house is a memorial to peeple who decided that in order to make their house payments, they had to organize and create a better wage package for themselves.  their management group brought in armed guards and a small shooting war developed.  who knows where this country would be if the pickering guards had been successful.  perhaps we would all still be buying our homes by making interest payments and giving the house back to the bank when we couldn't do that anymore.  that was a major method of owning a house in those days.  as an interesting note, there is the same financing available today, being packaged as a modern tool for the cash challenged.

[jjordan]

The union movement is alive and well, due to some gross dissparities that have come about in the past 10 to 15 years. The CEO's and top executives pays and perks have increased dramatically. Your wages haven't even kept pace with inflation, and your benefits are being whittled away little by little. Enough is enough, time for the pendulem to swing the other way!
JJ

[SloGlo]

sgt... congrats.  you've got it made, and if the recruiters quit calling tomorrow, ya woodent even care.  butt, fer alot of udder peeps, there knot in yer situation.  unions exist for more than da paycheck.  da paycheck is da main selling point, 'n union work pays moran non-union work.  however, there is more too it than that.  p'rhaps it'd be a good idea to surf a cupla union sites 'n see what is offered.  maybe yer kids wood appreciate anudder source a cash fer kollage.  'n ders udders.  take a look.

[biloxoi blues]

Yes congrats SGT, unlike you I make enough money I need for now, but not enough that I could ever want.  As the song goes you can never have too much fun, a girl to pretty, or to much money,etc...  I do have a fellow family member that is in the union (which I make fun of) and his company has a great retirement plan and health benefits. (by the way he travels also)  Now I really do like my company, but the 401k matching and beniies dont compare.  Like most road techs that are doing great financially, it isnt the company that makes them money but the way that person invests in other venues and that their family stays injury/heath free.  Usually the number one reason a tech has no money is because of medical reasons (women #2, jk).  If I could get one thing out of union it would be better health bennies.  So to all the road techs and also you JJ, have a safe New Year.

[jjordan]

SGT,
Do you know me? Sloglow once called me "The Mother Tereasa of rent a techs" For some strange reason I always seem to take up for the underdogs. There is nothing in it for JJ. If I was to take a position with the IBEW, do you think they will give me $100,00.00+ / year. That's what i currently make. I work a few outages away to earn this with a lot of overtime added in.I just took out a new 30 year mortgage on a nice house in Wilmington NC, so an early retirement seems to be out of the picture for old JJ. I just got finished paying alimony, and gave away 2 houses that were paid for in full.(See biloxi blues reason #2) I managed my money fairly well, but things in life happen. I may become a road tech again, you never know. There's a whole lot of upper managenent at PGN that wish I would just go away, and are probably working overtime behind the scenes to see if they can help make that happens. They won't say it, because it's illegal, but I'm clairvoyant and I can tell.  I want it better for everyone, I still have a lot of friends in the rent a tech ranks. I'm concerned with their well being, and yes, JJ"s too. If the IBEW offers me a sweet position, and offers to pay me more money. Guess what? JJ's rule #1, is always , always take the money! If I do take the position, you can rest assured, you won't find anyone that will try any harder, or be more open and honest than me. I would do the very best of my ability to get everyone what they rightfully deserve, and some of the IBEW recuiters I've been working with are doing exactly that, because it's something that they sincerly believe in.
JJ