PRT Failures?

[Mnemorath]

I hate PRT's on shore duty. I can pass them without issue but have failed one and maybe another due to fat. Navy policy says three failures and your out.

So, is there anything bad about beings ad-sep'd from the Navy due to PRT failures as far as the civilian side of Nuke power is concerned?

[93-383]

I'm not positive but I don't think it's and adsep it think it's a medical discharge. And in that case your medical record is covered by privacy act issues so your employer probably should not be able to find out.

[Mnemorath]

It is an Ad-Sep with a OTH discharge.

[McBride]

It is an Ad-Sep with a OTH discharge.

That, ladies and gents is a load of poo. 

It would be an ad-sp with RE code of RE3T.  Your discharge is honorable, and you keep all of your bennies.  I know, been there; done that.  Now I am talking with a National Guard recruiter about the possibilities of going back as a reservist.  I currenty volunteer with the 20th Special Forces Group (Airborne) in Birmingham, AL.  My recruiter's name is Danny Crosby, and if you want more information, I can get it for you. 

RE-3T means you will never get back into the NAVY (which incldes Marines).  They will tell you that you can never serve anywhere, which is false.  If I am not mistaken, the Army has no RE-3T and neither does the National Guard.  I have heard of one Air Force guy getting in after RE-3T from the Navy.

That said, I regret being put out for weight, not because it blotted my record (hint: NOBODY but you really knows or cares) but because I felt like it was a failure in my life, and that I did not live up to an oath I made.  Once you let them sep you out, you will always know that you did not finish your obligation.  If you want to stay in, let your command know.  If you demonstrate by your actions that you truly want to stay, they will probably find a way of keeping you around (also, if you're worth their time).

Regards,
McBride

[Wirebiter]

I brought up this topic a few months or more, ago.  It should still be on this forum.  The thread was entitled "Food for Freedom returns".  There was some good discussion about it if I recall.

-Rob

[Mnemorath]

Thanks for all the replies.

I read thru that thread Wirebiter. Lots of good gouge. I really hope the seperation pay is still active. I would owe the Navy ALOT of money since I re-enlisted in Feb05 to the tune of $60k.

I like my job and I like the Navy. I would rather not be seperated over a few pounds. After all I have a family to think about and the uncertainty of civilain life is a little scary after the near decade spent in uniform.

EDIT: maybe we can get a mod to merge the two threads.

[JustinHEMI05]

Thanks for all the replies.

I read thru that thread Wirebiter. Lots of good gouge. I really hope the seperation pay is still active. I would owe the Navy ALOT of money since I re-enlisted in Feb05 to the tune of $60k.

I like my job and I like the Navy. I would rather not be seperated over a few pounds. After all I have a family to think about and the uncertainty of civilain life is a little scary after the near decade spent in uniform.

EDIT: maybe we can get a mod to merge the two threads.

After staying in for bonuses, panic re-enlisting because you are afraid is the second worst reason to stay in. But thats neither here nor there, I just had to say it.

Jusitn

[Rad Sponge]

Thanks for all the replies.

I read thru that thread Wirebiter. Lots of good gouge. I really hope the seperation pay is still active. I would owe the Navy ALOT of money since I re-enlisted in Feb05 to the tune of $60k.

I like my job and I like the Navy. I would rather not be seperated over a few pounds. After all I have a family to think about and the uncertainty of civilain life is a little scary after the near decade spent in uniform.
EDIT: maybe we can get a mod to merge the two threads.

Don't sweat becoming a nuke civilian. You'll be able to provide for your family, no problem. Major energy companies are hiring beau coup right now. I think Exelon is trying to hire nearly 80 new operators just for the Pennsylvania plants alone.

They are not the only one, either. Staffing studies indicate you better be putting your candidates in now for NLO/RO/SRO/STA to keep up with the attrition of an aging work-force, etc.

Think about this. This so called "nuclear renaissance" aint gonna happen if there are no qualified bodies to operate these new wam-o-dyne  plants.

Its not like some voice from the sky is saying "If you build them, they will come".

Trust me man, stay if you really love the Navy, but if its about money and benes and family, seek out a new career in commericial.

Peace.

[deltarho]

Two guys in 8007 were discharged for "Failure to maintain military standards" after not graduating NPS and promptly hired by VEPCO (now Dominion).  I realize this is dated information, but they were hired for their obvious trainability based on their GPA not body fat.

[Samabby]

" over a few pounds. "

First of all, get honest with yourself.

[Mnemorath]

" over a few pounds. "

First of all, get honest with yourself.

Lets see, the max weight for my hieght of roughly 6'1-2" is 206-211lbs. I weigh about 215-220 depending on what I wear. Thats only a few pounds.

[cincinnatinuke]

Sure........But what happens when you put both feet on the scale?

He could obviously tell alot about your weight by the way you type.

[drayer54]

On the subject of PRT's, I recently submitted this article the Navy Times in response to their recent articles on the PRT.
http://www.posterwall.com/blog.php?b=2201

[JustinHEMI05]

It is the military, there are standards. It is pretty simple. You have to cut your hair and stay in shape. Where is the miscommunication?

[drayer54]

It is the military, there are standards. It is pretty simple. You have to cut your hair and stay in shape. Where is the miscommunication?

I wrote this in response to the article in the Navy Times saying that we need 3 mile runs and prt's given without notice and replacing situps with pullups. I am not arguing against promoting health and fitness.I believe that it has a role in the military, but lets not pretend that this is in anyway an accurate assesment of "readiness." Are the rigors of battle going to be 80% easier on a male every 5 years and easier for a female by a factor of 2?  My argument was that we are seeing this continous press on the PRT's and that the hype and attention we are giving it is only masking real problems faced by the Navy today. We are at a time where the equipment is getting more complex and the crews are getting smaller; I wrote this to suggest that we find another source of selection criteria to cut our sailors that might actually make the NAV stronger. I am also arguing against the notion that waistlines are an automatic indicator of performance or value to the NAV. I think that issues as signifigant as this should be pondered in a time of peace with no conflicts or internal issues. This issue keeps coming up and continues to push in the wrong direction.

[JustinHEMI05]

I would agree, marine like standards are not necessary.  Some are though. Those that don't meet them, suffer the consequences, just like any other standard not met.

[Cycoticpenguin]

 Yes we have these conditions to meet. But instead of "punishing" people for not being in the best of shape, lets give them an opportunity to get out and get in shape to begin with. Theres no incentive other then ramifications to be in any kind of shape. I guess somewhat of a tool, but a carrot dangling on a stick may work better. Provide adequate time off, give training (not everyone knows HOW to get in shape to begin with), arrange better prt sessions, etc. In the nuke world, its busy busy busy, and oh hey, make sure you hit the gym on the way home ok?

I work out, I enjoy weight lifting and it makes me feel good. Other people like "watching the game" with a few beers to unwind. Its just different strokes for different folks.

As i told drayer, the military has a certain set of standards for a reason, and theres an image to be upheld there. A "fat, out of shape" person is not what you think of when you think of someone in the military. Physical requirements of the job? If that was the case, little miss 90 pound sunshine should have to do the same amount of pushups as myself. a 3 mile run is completely ridiculous in my opinion though. Not too much 3 mile running to do out to sea (sans treadmill of course).

[drayer54]

I agree that issue will probably not go away in the time that I am following it, I just felt the need to write a reply to this publication in reference to this article. I get so tired of topsiders who do nothing but workout wanting to be rewarded even more for it. I'm also at a place where I get a chance to see just how much money we are spending to replace and fix the expensive equipment that the topsiders don't know how to work on. I would like to see the nav chase higher scoring talent by any means and put them in places outside of the nuke community. I would like to see our downsizing emphasise knowledge, vice waistlines...

Look at the most serious incident in the time that I have served... The fire on CVN-73... did the firefighters face the same fire or were the older men fighting a 2 minute slower fire? Did the bottles on the girls weigh half as much? Do valves require more or less muscle to operate based on who is turning them? The test is flawed and the standard needs to be updated. We aren't storming the beaches these days...

[withroaj]

DISCLAIMER: This really only applies to Nimitz-Class CVN life.  SSN life doesn't really afford the facilities to stay in shape with an aggressive OPTEMPO.

For what it's worth (at least where I'm currently working -- world's finest east coast CVN), folks aren't getting kicked out for PRT failures.  Sure, they are ineligible to transfer and their careers get torpedoed when evals are capped at "significant problems," but they can serve their enlistments and separate with honorable discharges at the end.

Fitness in the Navy comes down to time management on individual and divisional levels.  If you present a plan to your chain of command and DEMONSTRATE RESULTS, you don't have to meet up with the department on a softball field to do calisthenics ankle deep in goose poo.  If you have a chubby bunny in your work center, he/she doesn't even necessarily have to attend the largely ineffective FEP sessions.  My division right now is big into fitness.  We have a few people struggling with body fat.  We worked together with the chain of command to allow the heftier fellers to avoid FEP, instead going to the weight room with the avid lifters.  Instead of doing four-count calf raises people get a real workout.  Instead of keeping a silly diet journal (apparently now part of FEP) people get to burn the calories they eat.

We manage to do this while maintaining a pretty demanding OPTEMPO and a five-and-dime watch rotation, because we're willing to work together as a team (augmenting watches whenever allowed and having an "accountabilibuddy" system) to make sure everybody gets time to work out.  We're probably the only CVN division in existence that doesn't accept "that's not my job" as an answer to operational and maintenance tasking, because we work together to get our s**t done so we can go to the gym.

Strangely enough, by working out together we also wind up being a more cohesive group in general.  We do pretty damn well on inspections and VIP visits because we don't lock ourselves into our collateral duty based specialties.  I see other divisions standing around in their spaces, waiting on others to finish "their" work so they can all go home (or to berthing, etc.).  We get together and git-r-done so we can go to the gym.

I guess I'm getting at the idea that, while I don't think being chubby makes a person a worse operator/technician, embracing the buzzword "culture of fitness" seems to make a group/unit/workcenter tighter.  In addition to looking and feeling better, improved confidence and divisional morale; it could be argued that people who take better care of themselves sometimes take better care of their responsibilities.  When 80% of the force is between the ages of 20 and 26 and required to be healthy enough for physical activity, there's not a real reason to be out of shape on an A4W ship (sea-going -- shipyard is a whole other animal, requiring a greater deliberate effort to stay in shape) and out of shape.  It just takes an honest effort from the division to keep everyone healthy.  If 100% of your division is not on the watchbill and you have PRT failures, one could suggest that the failure itself was a team effort.

/pep talk, rant, soapbox, high horse

[JustinHEMI05]

I didn't nor will I, read any of that, but I just wanted to say...

"Whoa... long time no see."

[withroaj]

Been a busy year.  I figured I'd rant here just because it's been a while.  The argument itself is useless.  I just felt the need to post something.

[drayer54]

DISCLAIMER: This really only applies to Nimitz-Class CVN life.  SSN life doesn't really afford the facilities to stay in shape with an aggressive OPTEMPO.

For what it's worth (at least where I'm currently working -- world's finest east coast CVN), folks aren't getting kicked out for PRT failures.  Sure, they are ineligible to transfer and their careers get torpedoed when evals are capped at "significant problems," but they can serve their enlistments and separate with honorable discharges at the end.
of, he/she dssions.  My division right now is big into fitness.  We have a few people struggling with body fat.  We workedI guess I'm getting at the idea that, while I don't think being chubby makes a person a worse operator/technician, embracing the buzzword "culture of fitness" seems to make a group/unit/care of their responsibilities.  When 80% of the force is between the ages of 20 and 26 and required to be healthy enough for physical activity, there's not a real reason to be out of shape on an A4W ship (sea-going -- shipyard is a whole other animal, requiring a greater deliberate effort to stay in shape) and out of shape.  It just takes an honest effort from the division to keep everyone healthy.  If 100% of your division is not on the watchbill and you have PRT failures, one could suggest that the failure itself was a team effort.
/pep talk, rant, soapbox, high horse

It was my experience that the shipyard brought the pierside cafe and roach coach entirely too close and led our division to pack on some pounds. The article that I wrote was in response to a Navy Times issue that declared sailors want 3 mile runs given with no notice and pull ups replacing situps. They acted as if the fitness standards we currently have in place are just terrible and that we need to cut down big time by making the standards harder. I wrote the column to give the idea that if we want to cut that maybe we should be doing it in the area of knowledge and job performance. I have never seen a relationship between waistline and job performance and get so urked when these clowns who do nothing but workout and wear a uniform between bmr study sessions cry about it needing to be a bigger emphasis. I think the age of modern warfare and high tech weapons systems should lead us into recruiting the kind of sailor who can actually operate them. I never stormed a beach or saw a condition that a big guy couldn't handle. I remember plenty of In Standards sailors requirng help operating equipment and falling out in the heat. I also argue the accuracy that it is in anyways an indicator of readiness. While I was on Ike, they kicked a few out for it on 06' but then realized it created manning issues so after that the fat kids just stayed onboard for whatever time they had left. Maybe if it were the marines, but it isn't like that. My division was never into fitness....ever. I wrote a response to that silly publication and hope it gets put in the paper to piss off some topsiders. Nothing makes me happier than seeing them getting their panties in a wad.

[Cycoticpenguin]

It was my experience that the shipyard brought the pierside cafe and roach coach entirely too close and led our division to pack on some pounds. The article that I wrote was in response to a Navy Times issue that declared sailors want 3 mile runs given with no notice and pull ups replacing situps. They acted as if the fitness standards we currently have in place are just terrible and that we need to cut down big time by making the standards harder. I wrote the column to give the idea that if we want to cut that maybe we should be doing it in the area of knowledge and job performance. I have never seen a relationship between waistline and job performance and get so urked when these clowns who do nothing but workout and wear a uniform between bmr study sessions cry about it needing to be a bigger emphasis. I think the age of modern warfare and high tech weapons systems should lead us into recruiting the kind of sailor who can actually operate them. I never stormed a beach or saw a condition that a big guy couldn't handle. I remember plenty of In Standards sailors requirng help operating equipment and falling out in the heat. I also argue the accuracy that it is in anyways an indicator of readiness. While I was on Ike, they kicked a few out for it on 06' but then realized it created manning issues so after that the fat kids just stayed onboard for whatever time they had left. Maybe if it were the marines, but it isn't like that. My division was never into fitness....ever. I wrote a response to that silly publication and hope it gets put in the paper to piss off some topsiders. Nothing makes me happier than seeing them getting their panties in a wad.

SOME OF US did go to the gym drayer I agree with your standards comment. My equal rebuttal would be "if these physical requirements are so demanding, why do females and males have different standards?" Last time I checked, lady sailors were doing the same jobs as male sailors.... why do they get a different set of standards?

The issue you're going to have convincing "big navy" is they are set standards, and you are accountable when you arent "in standards". It's to appease the public eye with a fit, in shape navy that fits the mental mold when you think "sailor".


withroaj -> You comments are poignant but not wholly applicable. In our culture "Getting qualified" is WAY more important then 'getting in shape", am I wrong?

[drayer54]

SOME OF US did go to the gym drayer I agree with your standards comment. My equal rebuttal would be "if these physical requirements are so demanding, why do females and males have different standards?" Last time I checked, lady sailors were doing the same jobs as male sailors.... why do they get a different set of standards?

The issue you're going to have convincing "big navy" is they are set standards, and you are accountable when you arent "in standards". It's to appease the public eye with a fit, in shape navy that fits the mental mold when you think "sailor".

withroaj -> You comments are poignant but not wholly applicable. In our culture "Getting qualified" is WAY more important then 'getting in shape", am I wrong?
/quote]
Getting qualified is more important, duh! And I worked out a ton onboard that ship a**, Do you not recall me making fun of the Graham mirror? Ole' Feather and I went up there 3 out of 4 days. I still workout and could benchpress a Prius (those are about 280 right?)... Will my height and weight determine pay scales and evaluations in the civilian world? I wasn't trying to convince big navy, I was just trying to piss off as many topsiders as possible.

[withroaj]

withroaj -> You comments are poignant but not wholly applicable. In our culture "Getting qualified" is WAY more important then 'getting in shape", am I wrong?

You're right.  You're both right.  I just used to post to this forum frequently and figured I'd engage a conversation.  This one seemed debatable so I jumped in.

As far as getting qualified goes...  my division hasn't gotten a new guy in about a year and a half.  We're about 50% E-6 CRW (SW), 40% E-5 CRW (SW) and about 10% E-5 CRW just about done with warfare quals.  

We have some fancy new equipment that requires a TON of maintenance and frequent troubleshooting (can you imagine a RL division hanging tagouts several times a week for their own equipment?).  We're super short-handed (but 100% manned because of the amount of E-6's) but at least we don't have to worry about quals.