Rent a tech Union debate

[SloGlo]

Some things will never change, with or without a union. I understand why some call though. Anyone ever hear "We sent your resume, we just haven't heard back yet" To find out the utility never saw you resume?

reminds me of the time, back ina day, when rad told me that da beav didn't want me as a returnee.  i let it slide for a cupla years while i hada good time rolling coast to coast.  then i felt it was time to come home 'n rad had competition on site.  so i called into the plant, talked with ed who told me that the beav never, ever held anything against me.  so i called rad's competition 'n went on site with them.  had quite a good time tweaking the rad services forement, too. 
which just goes to show ya,  iffen ya only got one venue of communication yinz don't get the whole story.

[biloxoi blues]

JJ, must of been a different company than the one I work with.  Mine would never tell me a story.  Must be one of those companies that are out of business.

[Shawnee Man]

Heck I love my fellow Carnies! We get to know each other really well when we are fighting over seats at our two tables. Especially when we have to pick our dinner up and stand outside break area so an ALARA brief can happen. But when it comes down to it, I would rather have one of my fellow contract RP Techs cover my back on a job!! Like it or not things are going to change in the future.

[SloGlo]

But when it comes down to it, I would rather have one of my fellow contract RP Techs cover my back on a job!! Like it or not things are going to change in the future.

amen, shawneeman.  da question is, wattcha gonna due?  nutting personal, 'k shawneeman?  it's a generic question.   

[jjordan]

Heck I love my fellow Carnies! We get to know each other really well when we are fighting over seats at our two tables. Especially when we have to pick our dinner up and stand outside break area so an ALARA brief can happen. Yep, as I was told when I was upgrading the RP Tech training program in WI, you contractors are a dime a dozen. But when it comes down to it, I would rather have one of my fellow contract RP Techs cover my back on a job!! Like it or not things are going to change in the future.

Here, Here, I'll second all of that, except I also trust my fellow house techs here at Brunswick. Shawneeman I'm sure you know most of them, great bunch, close knit family. We watch out for each other, and the roadies too! Carnie is a midwestern derogatory name, probably coined somewhere in the "Great Corn Desert", and I don't like using it! You're right, lots of things are changing even as we speak. I just hope I can wake up the silent majority in time to take full advantage of their position of strength. If you snooze you loose! Keep the faith!
JJ

[biloxoi blues]

Heck we had are own cordinator tell us we were a dime a dozen.

[rapidray]

 

I have been readin all the stuff that is on this onion thing till im sick of it.  sew eye reckon ill put my 2 sense in.

in '94 at fernald the local ibedubya, was contacted by a house tech, to try 2 git there oinionlabel in the house.  well myself and a hand full of other house follks did knot care to have this forced on sew being aginst the movement, i started a counter movement aginst the onion lable.  well the sr. rcts were spreadn rumours to the jrs. that the orginizashun was gonna get them momoney, mo bennys and all of the uther stuff, that dreams are made of.

manigmint chose not to take sides,  but because i was determine to win this war, and thats whut it turned out 2 bee a war zone, i made a contact with the nlrb lawyers in WDC,  and they clued me in on how the union label works.  being that we are in the state of lost in middle amerika ohio,  the rite2work opshun didnot apply.  but the nlrb sent me nfo statn that if the label was voted in, the non-label wearin bunch didnot have to join up and WE still git the same shake as the UNIONLABEL.

sorry bout the ramblin on, but yawl need to no that if a union gits voted in, whatever package they offer, has to be negociated, and voted on, like vac. ins. pay ect...

we won at fernald the union label was defeated, but during the campain, and afterwards ther were sum bitter follks,  I, being the instigator, had my office broke n2 and some items came up missing.


nalldorespect,

rapidray
PEACE

[jjordan]

Here’s a question for you JJ since you seem to be the pied piper for this union thing and have nothing to lose since you are house. 
If the union thing goes through but let’s say 35% of the technicians don’t support or join.  Now a plant they normally have worked at for years is now a closed shop or not in a right to work state, they can’t work there!  I guess in your world that’s too bad. 
You have reduced the work force, cut fellow technicians income and benefits, hurt their families simply to benefit a few and put more money in the union leadership’s pockets.  At that point what is the difference between the union and the company you spend so much time fighting. 
How do you feel about that?

Well lets see, if it's a closed shop, he would have had to join a union then. So i don't think it would be a bad thing to ask him to join his own union. One that he could have a voice in and help make policy, and negotiate for the betterment of his fellow techs. Hey he or she might start to enjoy it if they would give it a chance. It can and will work, there are no problems without solutions. if you don't want to join and reap the benefits. Sit in the corner and enjoy the ride. Just don't complain when it isn't your way. If you don't belong, you have no voice. I'll be there to voice my opinion in my union, and everything won't be exactly like I want it, but I accept the fact that the majority rules, and maybe I look at things differently. There will be much more good than bad, I want and need this and you do too, but you're just to stubborn to admit it. The union doesn't cut the workforce, they fight to try and keep jobs, raise wages, and increase benefits. I don't know how you can  make the accusations that you do. How much do you think the Head of the IBEW is worth? His compensation pales in comparison to any of the CEO's of the utility companies that we all have worked for over the years. He has way more responsabilties, manages many more people, and probably puts in more hours. I don't understand why you can't comprehend what is going on in the world around you. Read some papers, watch a little TV (news programs). See what the utilities have in store for the working class, and then see what kind of raises they take for themselves. Hell most of them outearn the President of the United States, and if they just went away, their company wouldn't miss a beat! there is a difference, and I know it, I'm very sorry that you don't.
JJ

[justme]

Again I ask the question no one will answer.  Who gets asked to a particular job? 
I will rephrase.  4 plants are going down at the same time, I like to go to plant A, and am a long time returnee.  Pay and plant reputation are better than the other 3 plants.  I happen to be on the bottom of the said "call list" when staffing for plant A comes around.  Will I get asked ahead of non returnees, or be penalized?  Will the freedom to chose plants to work go away?   We all have plants we like to work.  Does having a union restrict my job choices?  I like being able to travel and not always work at my "home plants".  I do both as I choose.    Does this add another layer of people I need to go through to get the job I want?

[Brett LaVigne]

I am not going to claim to be an expert on the matter at hand but I have some experience with unions from another life.  I had some discussion with a few guys that worked for some of the other trades at one of my outages last fall and this is the way I understood what they were telling me.

There is the chance that you could lose out on the opportunity to go to a plant that you like or were a returnee to in the past due to someone having more senority.  They explained to me that to a certain degree they had some choice of where they wanted to work if they had a "connection" at that plant.

One of the biggest reasons that I have always been opposed to unions is that the merits of your job performance and attendance play a much smaller part of how well you do in your career than being a freelancer like we are now.  I am not speaking of just money.  We already get paid differently due to senority (Jr., 18.1, 3.1, 5yr Sr. etc.).  That to me is fine and pretty much fair in my opinion.  Not having the choice of where you want to work or having more restrictions placed on that choice due only to time on the job is unfair to the techs that work hard and take pride in their performance.  Every job I go to it is my personal goal to have an open invitation to come back for future outages if I so choose, so far so good.  That means that you do a good job, show up to work every day and be smart about what you are bitching about when you are there.

So, to your question, I believe that YES, it will add another layer of people that you need to go through to get the job in some cases,  and even more frustrating, it will at times be a layer of lazy people that just simply have more time in than you.

Remember, this is my opinion based on several conversations with card carrying trades workers.

Oh ya, many of these guys didn't get perdiem and did have a pension.  I'd rather have the perdiem...don't know if we would have to give that up or not, but it concerns me.  Again, I am not the authority, I just have my opinions.

[SloGlo]

ya know, it wood be good iffen sum of da union crafts loafing on this site would join in 'n give some answers to questions being posed here.  obviously, alot of the people don't believe watt jjordan is saying.  other input would help. 

[SloGlo]

sgt,  so is your closed shop union scenario any different than if a different company takes the contract at your favorite plant and offers pay rates of 20% less than was paid during the previous outage.  now the workers have to choose between making less money or going to another site or sit out on the unemployment line.  i know, you'll say you won't take that pay rate.  there will be some who will, less experienced looking for the job with responsibility to put on their resume.  now the slots are filled.  whatcha gonna due?

[biloxoi blues]

This is going to happen at Wolf Creek, where this last outage the techs received @30 dollars and hour because of supply and demand.  The company's middle man  came in and told us that dont expect these wages again. That person had nothing to do with that increase,(the cordinator is probably the one most responsible for our raises) but the middle man does have something to do with our decrease.  Does anyone really care who we work for as long as the money is right and its where we want to be?  Who does the companies work for?    Why would they ever bid a cap in travel pay if they cared about us?  The bottom line is that companies compete with other companies for the contract and who does this hurt?   To me the companies are like the union.  They limit our freedom and they reach in our pockets.  Just my stupid opinion.

[SloGlo]

I have been readin all the stuff that is on this onion thing till im sick of it.  sew eye reckon ill put my 2 sense in.


nalldorespect,

rapidray
PEACE

rapidray!!!  sari eye mist dis befour.  phinally, a poast eye kin reed!

[jjordan]

Don't feel bad, it seems others have asked the question just in a different manner.  And still no straight answer.

George, I gave it as straight as I could! Everything is purely speculation until you get a agreement signed. I'm going to vote for the one that say 6'0" tall slightly overweight, and balding, divorced male techs have preference. Piss on seniority!!! OK now that I have your attention. I personally agree that senority should not be the sole determining factor, and it doesn't have to be. There are other fair and equitable way to do things. I did post a scenario on this thread, it's about 2/3rds of the way down on page 4. I know it's hard to keep up with all of the information here. The utilities should be able to hire their returnees first, I agree. The contractor I worked for could take me anywhere in the country I wanted to go with him to work, the union didn't care. I was a card carring member and a permenant employee of contractor X. everything was cool. When he ran out of steady employees, he then had to go to the hall, and go by the list that I desribed in that post. i would have pasted it here, but I'm a dumb ass and couldn't figure out how to go back that far. Remember, theese are all just purely speculation, you can pick the most unfair and resonable way to do this, all it takes is 50% plus 1 vote for the majority, and it will be your contract of choice.Hope I helped  a little, If not stay tuned, I'll be here for a while.
JJ

[Brett LaVigne]

Same stuff rehashed over and over.  I'm done here, bottom line if it comes to a vote, mine will be no.
GWB

Same here.  I do however give you JJ, credit for bringing the debate and being so persistant in providing information as you see it without getting too emotional and pissed off with those of us who disagree with you.

You have definately been sucessfull in stiring a bunch of unemployed HP's up.  I can't wait to go back to work in a couple of weeks so I can do something other than look at this site.   I need more hobbies when I am off!

[jjordan]

Bat Man,
Oh ya, many of these guys didn't get perdiem and did have a pension.  I'd rather have the perdiem...don't know if we would have to give that up or not, but it concerns me.  Again, I am not the authority, I just have my opinions.

Why can't you have both? I do, I stay in a room you can't afford, get the top travel milage, no stinking cap, meal money, a pension, a 401K with a 6% match(6% of $100,00.00 or better every year), not just the first $100.00, and an outage bounus if I get rid of the contractors early and come in under budget. Tell me why you don't deserve this all too! That's what all of your negative posters are telling me. You contractors just aren't worth it. The union will try to help you get some or all of this. I think you deserve it!
 JJ

[jjordan]

I guess it’s true, once you shovel it for so long, you just don’t smell it any more!

This may be a concept that is difficult for you to comprehend but there are quite a few road technicians that do not believe or want to join a union.  So I will pose the question to you once again, black and white.

If the union thing goes through but let’s say 35% of the technicians don’t support or join the union.  Now a plant they have normally worked at for years is now a closed shop or not in a right to work state, they can’t work there!  I guess in your world that’s too bad. 
You have reduced the work force, cut fellow technicians income and benefits, hurt their families simply to benefit a few.

What freedom of choice do they now have?  Join the union so they can work, or don’t join the union and be unemployed.  Sounds a lot like blackmail………… 
Nothing democratic about that, purely socialism at it’s finest.

You still have trouble comprehending, and you always seem to make it personal. You must be in supervision! I'll do a little reseach and break it down for you so you quit asking the same repetative questions. i thought my answer was clear but maybe I was mistaken, I'll try to clarify.
Thanks,
JJ

[Brett LaVigne]

I guess it’s true, once you shovel it for so long, you just don’t smell it any more!

This may be a concept that is difficult for you to comprehend but there are quite a few road technicians that do not believe or want to join a union. 

No need to beat the guy up.  Even though I don't agree with JJ I do believe that his intentions are for the good of the whole.  I think that is why JJ started these posts, to find out where his peers were with the idea of a union.  Obviously he would like to pursuade us to his side and he is doing a fine job of trying to sell his side to those of us who don't want it without trying to abuse us for the disagreement.  Here is a little Karma for ya JJ.  For the effort.

[Brett LaVigne]

Why can't you have both? I do, I stay in a room you can't afford, get the top travel milage, no stinking cap, meal money, a pension, a 401K with a 6% match(6% of $100,00.00 or better every year), not just the first $100.00, and an outage bounus if I get rid of the contractors early and come in under budget. Tell me why you don't deserve this all too! That's what all of your negative posters are telling me. You contractors just aren't worth it. The union will try to help you get some or all of this. I think you deserve it!
 JJ

I hear ya JJ, and I appreciate that you think we contractors deserve all of this too.  I guess I am trying to be realistic in my expectations of what we might really be able to improve and what it might cost, and is it worth it?  Would a union feed us a pipe dream to get us to join?

My experience with temp. staff is quite extensive.  When I was out of the biz for a few years I spent 4+ years as a production plant Superintendent in Detroit.  Our production volume varied from week to week so we maintained a temp. staff of about 35% of the total hourly employee's.  I managed in total around 200 hourly folks and a dozen or so supervisors, managers and leads.  We paid our temp. staff on average about 80% of what thier "house" peers made.  Of course I had to field many complaints about this over the years and I did possess the power to change the contract that we had with Addecco but I was also tasked with maintaining the financial health of my branch.  I was probably one of the most sympathetic managers you will ever meet, I truely cared about the folks that worked for me (including the temp. employee's), after all, most of my life was spent punching a clock just like them.  This was the best deal I could provide them without hurting the business.  With all of the additional costs (workers comp., vendor markup etc.) these temp. employees ended up being nearly as expensive as my permanent employees.

It was a different business but I am sure that the same fundamentals apply.  In the end, we are temporary employees.  I want everything that you house guys get but, knowing a little about business I understand that it isn't realistic to expect the deal that you have.  The future looks pretty promissing for a guy like me that has a couple more decades to work.  There are way more opportunities for us contractors to seek fulltime employment than there was several years ago and with the aging workforce it is going to get even better.  In the meantime I don't think that we make a poor living only having to work part of the year and I like the freedom that we have.

I am still a no, but I am not closed minded.  I will continue to keep up on this post.  Sorry I am so long winded everyone.

[HydroDave63]

It is valuable information , Bat Man. Karma to ya!

[UncaBuffalo]

With all of the additional costs (workers comp., vendor markup etc.) these temp. employees ended up being nearly as expensive as my permanent employees.

My take on this is that all of us are worth more during an outage.  Outage time is when most of the heavy work takes place.  After the outage, we (the rent-a-techs) leave, thus saving the company any costs from that point on out.  We should be paid more for our time...because it is only for a few weeks.

[Tina]

  Just for the record I'm still a NO vote... No one has given me any pros to why it would be benifitial to us to even have a union    All I've seen is the oh to well known negitives but, not much in the way of positives  I'll keep watching though you just never know what might turn up here 

[rapidray]

 

clarification of my comments/opinions on the union.

my vote is still no, but if the union was already in at whatever site that I was accepted at, and if joining there union was a condition of employment, then let it happin capt'n


rapidray

[SloGlo]

My take on this is that all of us are worth more during an outage.  Outage time is when most of the heavy work takes place.  After the outage, we (the rent-a-techs) leave, thus saving the company any costs from that point on out.  We should be paid more for our time...because it is only for a few weeks.

don't take dis da wrong weigh, but uncabuffalo.... dis reads like a pitch for professional athletes getting biggest bucks 'cause dey only work for a little while. 

but they got unions.