Meter Reading Training

[Tech A]

The last place I took it there were 10 questions and you could miss two and still pass.  Now seeing the people that failed the test there was a common theme in about 90 percent of them (in my opinion) they were slugs.  We had three different meters, a count rate meter, R02, and a teletector.  There was one tech who said before the test that if anyone fails the test there shouldnt be any excuses.  Guess what that person failed it and guess what that person had plenty of excuses.  If a tech is a "C" tech then do the paperwork get rid of them let the other companies use them.  Lets make those great Bartlett  evals mean something.  If we keep  carrying these techs we will always get 22 per hour.

[RRhoads]

i was one of those fortunate people that was at  outage where this exam was given to us .  i will say in everyones defense there were senior that have been long time seniors.  some of them had  difficulty passing this exam. they failed the exam.   those of us who didnt make it on the first try were given training to help us get thru this.  the training was very helpful.  i found the time given to do it was not enough time 15 seconds to read the meter write your answer done.  it was presented as a slide show.  for those of us who arent test takers it was alittle to much pressure.  but thank god we made it thru it.  this exam will show up more and more as it was introduced to various sites management while we were there taken it for the first time.  thank you to bartlett for putting something on the website page to help us out.  susquehanna and beaver valley will be given it this fall.  susquehanna is where it originated from by hp supervisor there. mtj

Sorry..but if a Senior Technician needs "training" for using one of the BASIC tools..then they should be given 2 options:
Work as a junior to get said training or leave the site.

What would you say if you hired/PAID someone to mow your lawn...but you had to give them training on how to use the lawnmower and give them training on how to mow the lawn?
Ridiculous!

[RAD-GHOST]

Roger, I consider it SAD, not infuriating!

RG    

[RDTroja]

Roger, I consider it SAD, not infuriating!

RG    

I went right through sad and on to infuriating. Remember, these people that can't perform the simplest HP task are getting paid the same as the rest of the techs that can actually do their job. They also reflect terribly on our chosen profession and prove to the utilities that we are not worth more pay because they bring the 'average' down. If some are incompetent and some are very competent, the average becomes just 'competent.' Get rid of the incompetent (or make them competent) and the average is a much better tech who may be worth more money. Or, maybe I just expect too much when I want people to be able to do their jobs and earn their money without reflecting badly on the rest of us that can.

[stownsend]

I went right through sad and on to infuriating. Remember, these people that can't perform the simplest HP task are getting paid the same as the rest of the techs that can actually do their job. They also reflect terribly on our chosen profession prove to the utilities that we are not worth more pay because they bring the 'average' down. If some are incompetent and some are very competent, the average becomes just 'competent.' Get rid of the incompetent (or make them competent) and the average is a much better tech who may be worth more money. Or, maybe I just expect too much when I want people to be able to do their jobs and earn their money without reflecting badly on the rest of us that can.

I've had to help alot of techs over the years. I saw one using a BC-4 and  multipling the eff instead of dividing for release surveys. Numerous times I've found areas where techs leave a b-25 that is now a Radiation area or High Rad area and didn't post it properly. What do want to do run to management everytime someone makes a mistake or help them.  They most likely won't make the same mistake. If I went to management everytime I saw or percieved I saw a mistake I'd be shot. I remember where I came from and I never claimed that I was born with the ability to read meters.I had no problem with the Bartlett examples but I wouldn't expect a new junior to know all, see all. How many ex nukes did you have to keep an eye on their first outage because they had never seen what we did every day.They could spit out theory for breakfast but needed help adjusting to commercial. A Senior missing this test I'll hold my opinion until I see or hear how the test was administered.I know I would have to sit in the front of the class because I didn't bring my glasses.

[HydroDave63]

I believe that RDTroja is full of his self. I hope his class does pass. There are a lot of NEW JRs. in this buisness who don't get the opertunity to take a class and have to do it OJT. I believe that meter training on line that Bartlett put up is benifical for all, Including YOU P*********!

I couldn't read your survey map with all the pidgin English...more OJT?

[alphadude]

remeber the root cause - management or training   either they were poorly managed or did not get the proper training... or both   

the techs in-ability certainly may reflect on their personal goals, self worth etc...which seems to be the debate here ... but the focus should be on how did these lower skilled technicians get this far already...?? Its not their fault....

[illegalsmile]

It is sad (and infuriating) that there are techs out there that can't read a meter. If you had formal training (Navy, college, whatever) you should've learned there. If you came up OJT, you should've learned as a deconner as soon as you decided you wanted to HP for a living. Your ability to accurately read an instrument should've been verified by your first site (and by every site thereafter) before you ever drew a paycheck. And before that, your employer (be it Bartlett, Atlantic, MarCom or Nuclear Ho's, Inc) should have done it so they didn't look like idiots for sending techs who couldn't read a meter.
A tech who can't read a meter is like a truck driver who can't press a brake pedal. It's just wrong.

[Evilpixie]

I think it's great that practical skills are finally being tested... Sometimes I wonder why there isn't an HP entrance test that goes like this: "You're covering a job and these are the conditions.... "  There are many who can babble all kinds of theory like they are some kind of atom whisperer but when it comes time to really cover a job, they're clueless.

Yes, it is great that practical skills are being tested, although it is a bit pathetic that the test isn't being passed by some long time seniors.  One thing I am curious about regarding them- how was their vision?  I've seen some who don't rattle off dose rates rapidly simply because they have poor vision. 

[LaFeet]

So   where is this going to end???

Are we going to continue and pursue those that cannot function as hired?
Pay them to learn the job the claimed to be qualified for?

This (sadly) is just as bad as a senior not being able to pass the NUF.

[alphadude]

again you all seem to be on the personal level.. its higher than this..

utilities, trainers, employers are responsible to their customers to provide a service that meets specifications..

Should have learned, they cant do this or that.. etc.  implies a personal level motivation.. deal with the real problem- the service providers are not doing their job when they supply a lower than specification service or product.. which involves a profit margin shift yadda yadda...

If you keep this on the personal level you must look in the mirror.. some of the problem may be seen there.

[illegalsmile]

i do tend to agree that it goes back to 'you get what you pay for.' with the tightening of budgets and a decrease in emphasis on HP, there is less and less money to pay contract techs. This has caused a shortage of quality people and since the utilities don't really care about the level of HP being provided, they hire whoever will take the job.

[grantime]

There is more than enough blame to go around, the individuals involved,  training, companies hiring them(both contract and utility).  And this isn't a new problem but years ago when we brought in 90 techs for an outage instead of 20 we could pair the weaker techs with stronger or assign them somewhere they (hopefully) couldn't screw up.  Now there isn't the slack or extra techs to make up the difference. This is a problem whether techs involved aren't up to speed or whether they have physical limitations. With fewer techs the HP office is trying to juggle fewer techs with same or more work load.  When there are techs in pool that you can't count on to be able to cover any job that comes up,  it makes it that much harder on HP office.

As to how to fix the problem, any training has to help.  Maybe just knowing that test is coming will help techs focus but every outage we have seniors that know that they have to pass NUE and still fail.  Funny part is that some of them will cop and attitude about doing junior work (at senior pay) until they retake the test.

Its all well and good to talk about weeding out weak sisters from our ranks(house and contract) but we aren't turning out senior fast enough to cover empty staffing slots so the utilities have to take what they can get. Even if money doubles for contract techs then that doesn't solve this particular problem.  (granted it would make dealing with it more fun) There are still not enough good techs for the amount of work.

[SloGlo]

kut it out!  yinz guys is scaring me!  der are techs watt kant reed a meter?  kin dey due scientific notation work in der heads?  calc activitiy offa an a/s wit a frisker?  hail, dez are da building blox of da sandbox.  iffen ya kant due these, ya shudant be a senior.  iffen ya don't due well on tests, howz ya doing going phrum site to sight, cause wit all eye bin reeding, it test after test.  back ina day, der wuz lotsa techs watt had probs wit tests, 'n dey relied on da physical walk thrus to git on site.  iffen ya coodent reed da meters, ya weren't there no mo. 

[illegalsmile]

it's simple economics. whatever you want, whether it's a hot car, good whiskey or competent techs, the more you are willing to pay for it, the more of them there are. right now the utilities and the DOE contractors are, for the most part, unwilling to pay for quality contractor techs so you wind up with people who can't read meters, can't climb ladders, can't do math, can't work in the heat etc, etc etc.
Most of the places I've worked lately, our hourly rate was $10/hr or more less than the house techs were making. That's not including the disparity in the benefits packages. Is it any wonder we have a lot of disfunctional techs showing up for outages? And who do you suppose gets to pick up the slack for the people who "can't" do their jobs?

[LaFeet]

again you all seem to be on the personal level.. its higher than this..

utilities, trainers, employers are responsible to their customers to provide a service that meets specifications..

Should have learned, they cant do this or that.. etc.  implies a personal level motivation.. deal with the real problem- the service providers are not doing their job when they supply a lower than specification service or product.. which involves a profit margin shift yadda yadda...

If you keep this on the personal level you must look in the mirror.. some of the problem may be seen there.

I agree with your outlook into this problem.  But I do not think that anyone out there, claiming that they can do the job, should get paid for the quality of work I provide if they can not function to my standards.  I am not one who toots his own horn.... but I do take pride in knowong that I can be placed in a hot running situation, make educated choices and provide documentation to support my actions.  If you cant read a meter, then dont take a senior position until you can.  At least ask for help... I would be more than happy to assist.... and I wont tell.  I want more seniors out there.... I do not plan on being a roadie all my life.

[alphadude]

oh now u want some ethics to enter into this... i agree with ya... but if someone is going to hand out money and not have high expectations.... where does the line form cause all of us will be there..  we used to staff by the method of "give me sum warm bodies" ... remember all those maitai girls and bar queens that got recruited back in the 70s and 80s?

where is RAD Services when u needs them?

[RDTroja]

Yeah, what he said.

I just gave my Junior HP class the 'test' on the Bartlett site... the lowest score was 90% and that was due to an unfamiliarity with the meters shown. These guys are not fully qualified yet and got no formal training other than OJT on using survey meters.

It's not rocket surgery.

[Camella Black]

okay get your spite fingers ready.... just where did most of you guys spring from? where you born h.p.'s? how many of you actually went to college and or the navy for your h.p. education? how many of you drifted into this business? and did someone not help you out along the line? one of the best h.p.'s I have ever known is Henry, of course I am prejudiced on his account, but he drifted in and he was allowed to learn and was taught by some of the best; but I am very sure that he made mistakes or was slow when he first came on the scene. as I am sure most of you were too. besides many people have slower reaction times, this does not make them bad h.p.'s

I feel sorry for some of the younger techs, newer techs or anyone who has to work with the majority of the attitudes I see at times on here; sure these people may not be as skilled as you (count your blessings), they may not be as quick as you (again be thankful) and I'm sure most regret this and want to be better but the powers that be just ain't leaning that way... too many sights don't allow you to roll back to junior or work with you on this anymore they just cut you loose or cuss you out, or both. you all know its true...then you get back home or to your hotel and read that your coworkers think you're slack and that puts extra pressure on you, whew.

now heres my take on timed test, I think they're b.s. pure and simple; I'd rather have someone who could read the dang meter correctly any day than one who could do it fast. Are we now putting h.p.'s on an assembly line? What type of pressure and possible mistakes could we be causing here, I can just imagine someone more worried about turning out all his surveys in a set amount of time and cutting corners, misreading and heck maybe just guessing instead of taking the time to do it slow and correctly... this is what is wrong with most of the items we now use in our daily lifes, automation. You guys that are in the unions should be standing up for and protesting against this in my book...

didn't mean to read you the riot act, this just struck a raw nerve...

p.s. thanks Bartlett for seeing a need and doing something productive about it

[SloGlo]

camella,  personally, i drifted into the field.  after a while, i realized i wasn't going many places as a 18.1, so i scored a slot at an operating nuke and got the time in for the 3.1.  of coors this was right after they dropped the "operational" word from the tech specs, dang!  then i realize i needed some better theory knowledge, so i jumped on a doe/dod contract and picked up the navships107 training and rating.  watt duz this mean?  not squat.  when i was brand spanking new, frisking incoming laundry and on-site washed rubber wear, i was poliltely (not really, but i'm trying for sensivity points here) that a meter face was like a speedometer.  iffen i coodent read a speedo, i had no business driving and if i coodant reed a meter face i had no business being in a nuke.  that was the attitude 3 decades ago.  i guess it has changed, huh?  mnaybe it's the new math?

[Tech A]

Why are we thanking Bartlett for these quiz test for basic meters?  Yes it maybe good for Juniors, but the techs that have been in the business for more than ten years and still cant read a meter should be gone.  Its "pitiful"  that we have to work with these techs that I have seen fail this test (most of them). But hey everyone knows the companies motto.  "If they breathe their billable".  If I was running a company and didnt care about the good techs  and was here to make money I would do the same thing.  Everyone also knows that the cordinators and lead techs (the good ones) at sites  will spread out the bad techs.   In truth we shouldnt be mad at below average techs because we all get below average pay for our craft.   

[Camella Black]

Why are we thanking Bartlett for these quiz test for basic meters?  Yes it maybe good for Juniors, but the techs that have been in the business for more than ten years and still cant read a meter should be gone.  Its "pitiful"  that we have to work with these techs that I have seen fail this test (most of them). But hey everyone knows the companies motto.  "If they breathe their billable".  If I was running a company and didnt care about the good techs  and was here to make money I would do the same thing.  Everyone also knows that the cordinators and lead techs (the good ones) at sites  will spread out the bad techs.   In truth we shouldnt be mad at below average techs because we all get below average pay for our craft.   

I think that Bartlett is doing us all a service, not everyone is a speed demon and its a good idea for everyone to brush up or hone their skills. Doctors and sports figures are two groups of people I can think of that do this routinely. And I don't blame Bartlett or not Barlett alone for the shortage of techs, look towards the utilities and their inability to schedule the outages in a way in which their would be an abundance of good techs.

[grantime]

And I don't blame Bartlett or not Barlett alone for the shortage of techs, look towards the utilities and their inability to schedule the outages in a way in which their would be an abundance of good techs.

Power companies are only interested in selling power.  There is less demand during the spring and fall and no matter how much we wish they would spread out the work they are going to do it during lowest demand period.  That is reason that outages have stacked up on top of each other and that will only get worse.

I'm not sure that there is anyone-contract companies or utilities - that are the bad guys in this shortage.  Deregulation forced changes in ways that utilities can account for costs.  You and I generally appreciate that in terms of lower power bills.  The downside is that it forces them to be cheap SOB's.  So they quit bringing in as many techs.  Perhaps more importantly it meant that utilities quit "investing" in techs by making sure pipeline of new folks stayed full and trained.  Companies are notoriously shortsighted when it comes to expenses.  Save a dollar now and worry about future staff shortages latter.  You may argue that it is wrong thing to do but it is what is being demanded of them.  Wall Street will punish any company that was spending more than mininium for labor.

[RDTroja]

Camella --

I also 'drifted' into the industry... although I describe it as walking down the street and falling into an open manhole. I got no formal training. I was taught to read a meter so I could drive a radwaste truck. I brought several friends into the business and taught them how to read a meter and as far as I know they all did it properly. I am not talking about being a speed demon, I am talking about a minor skill and attention to detail and doing a job right. I have a pretty good reputation for helping people out. I am a teacher even when I am not getting paid for it. I want others to succeed. But those that can't perform the most basic of HP skills should not be getting paid to do it... it is bad for us as HPs and bad for the industry we depend on.

The bottom line here is that speed does matter, at least to a point. You MUST be accurate, but you also have to be quick. When you are taking a survey, you cannot keep your distance, you have no shielding, so all you can rely on to keep your dose low is time. If one tech can do an accurate survey for 2 mR, it is unnaceptable for another technician to take 10mR. The skill of being able to think on your feet is a vital one for HPs, and those that can't pass a timed test are probably not very good at improvising quickly either. Why do you think the MASS test is timed (and POSS, too)?

Bartlett is certainly doing us a favor by giving people a chance to improve. But this skill has to be part of the starter kit, not something that is picked up later. Give the new techs this info first, not after they are already seniors.

[illegalsmile]

While it is the Contract Company's best interest to send competent people, and it is certainly in the licencee's best interest to ensure that the people doing surveys at their facilities are competent, it is each tech's RESPONSIBILITY to be able to do the job they're paid to do.
Kudos to anyone who provides training, particularly FREE training, and a pox on anyone who's willing to coast into a senior HP slot without the basic skills and understanding necessary to do a good job.