How would you fix the NNPP

[Roll Tide]

I really don't want to sound too negative but 300 bucks a month is 10 a day. Not the strongest way to say 'go forth and conquer.'

Isn't $300 what the Navy would pay a drilling E-5 Reservist per month?

[withroaj]

Touche

[Preciousblue1965]

Justin =>

Not as in depth as you are describing, but there is some sort of return for getting watch sup -> supervisory NEC  => 300$ pay raise every month.

I think a bonus WOULD provide more incentive, but not much though. People will be just as lazy.

Problem is that a supervisory NEC is only available after certain criteria are met.  For example(correct me if I am wrong on this) If you are an E6 who is qual SIR (RO, CMO, ERS, etc) then you have to be in for 6 years before they will change your NEC to supervisory.  I think an E5 can get it but they have to be EWS quald in order to do it and still wait out the time.  I think there are some other combinations but not sure of them.  So no qualifying EWS does not "automatically" give you that pay boost. 

[Gamecock]

Problem is that a supervisory NEC is only available after certain criteria are met.  For example(correct me if I am wrong on this) If you are an E6 who is qual SIR (RO, CMO, ERS, etc) then you have to be in for 6 years before they will change your NEC to supervisory.  I think an E5 can get it but they have to be EWS quald in order to do it and still wait out the time.  I think there are some other combinations but not sure of them.  So no qualifying EWS does not "automatically" give you that pay boost. 

It is E5, over 6, Watch Sup

-or-

E6, over 5, Senior-in-rate

[withroaj]

Reading even my own (diggity) posts, I can't help but notice the culture of negativity and cynicism ingrained in the enlisted folks in the program.  While I guess we can't count on the 'Big Navy' to fix this one I am pretty sure it would help fix a lot of ills the program faces.

A buddy of mine is getting ready to re-up -- I hope you're sitting down for this one -- AFTER being the SNOB!  He's been branded Judas Iscariot for making an informed decision at the end of his first sea term.  Everyone loved him one day, and once he chose continued employment over college life a few people (most of whom, strangely enough, reported to the boat in shipyard and haven't even gone to sea) think they have grounds to ostracize him.

By the way folks.  We just celebrated el Quatro de Julio (Fourth of July) weekend.  I hope yours was as good as mine.  I also hope you read a little from your Declaration of Independence this weekend.  That faded old piece of parchment literally spoke our nation into existence.  For at least a day we should all be inspired by that.  While we may all be self-righteous behind the safety of our keyboards, those men made their bold statement and took up arms to defend it.  I don't even think they had a blog saying 'How would you fix the American Revolution?' 

To make it easier on all you folks, I have links in my signature to let you read our founding documents.  True civics lessons in and of themselves.  Enjoy.

[PapaBear765]

...
I don't even think they had a blog saying 'How would you fix the American Revolution?' 
...

If you're making a jab at those of NukeWorker and this thread, then I'd say while I have the luxury of not dodging mortars in a trench or storming a foreign beach I'll take the time to go back and forth on what's wrong with the NNPP.

If you're insinuating that we take up arms against our chiefs and officers, then I'd say that's not the road to take.  It's much easier and more effective to just get out when you're time is up.  When the navy wakes up one morning and they have only commanders and admirals to relieve the watch, they'll start to take our complaints seriously.

[JsonD13]

See the problem with Supervisory pay is that it is only 375/month.  Now many of you may say "That's a good chunk of change!"  but consider the other pays that the Navy just hands out..... and some of them do NOT require the level of certification or seniority that goes into what we get at SD-5 (or SD-2 for that matter)....

SD-2-150     SUBMARINE LAN ADMINISTRATOR
SD-5-375     RECRUIT DIVISION COMMANDERS     
SD-6-450     OFFICER RECRUITER               
SD-6-450     PRODUCTION RECRUITER             
SD-2-150     MILITARY SEALIFT COMMAND         
SD-5-375     SURFACE SHIP INDEPENDENT DUTY CORPSMAN

Now aviation guys have this thing called "career enlisted flyer pay".  Basically if they are on a flight crew, ship or shore based, they get pay based upon how many years of service they have (not rank)....It goes like this

<4 years  150
>4 <8  225
>8 <14  350
>14    400

Now I am not saying that these people do not deserve these pays, but I do believe that when a comparison of duties and responsibilities occur, you will find that us nukes are still inadequately compensated for what we do. 

But the pay is never an issue when you are making enough to support your lifestyle.  Where the retention issue comes in is in the happiness you enjoy in your job.  Fix that, and retention will be fixed.  Sounds easy, but if the pencil pushers in DC are having an issue solving this, I don't think any one of us alone could come up with a feasible solution that works with the Navy's mission.

Don't mistake me for a pro-navy guy or a lifer........I'm getting out shortly and very very glad I am.

Jason

[withroaj]

Now hey there, Papabear, I think I may have the most complaints about the program on this here thread. I didn't mean any disrespect to anyone and I have no mutiny intentions. I was just saying 'happy fourth of July, don't forget that it's more than a day off of work.' I had no idea it would be a touchy subject and am greatly sorry if I made it one.

[PapaBear765]

Now hey there, Papabear, I think I may have the most complaints about the program on this here thread. I didn't mean any disrespect to anyone and I have no mutiny intentions. ...  I had no idea it would be a touchy subject and am greatly sorry if I made it one.

Not at all, I'm not that sensitive.  Just didn't know what you were getting at.

... I was just saying 'happy fourth of July, don't forget that it's more than a day off of work.'...

N/A for some of us.  I was standing hour 2 or 3 of my 12 hours of ESFPO.

[JustinHEMI05]

Not at all, I'm not that sensitive.  Just didn't know what you were getting at.

N/A for some of us.  I was standing hour 2 or 3 of my 12 hours of ESFPO.

I was playing cards in Vegas. 

Justin

[Preciousblue1965]

N/A for some of us.  I was standing hour 2 or 3 of my 12 hours of ESFPO.

I was fishing on a lake after eating some grilled hot dogs.  AHHH the joys of CIVLANTFLT. 

[mlslstephens]

N/A for some of us.  I was standing hour 2 or 3 of my 12 hours of ESFPO.

I was watching the movers, as I sat in my LazyBoy, for my final Navy move. 

Don't worry PB, the pain will end one day.

Good luck!

[withroaj]

I was fishing on a lake after eating some grilled hot dogs.  AHHH the joys of CIVLANTFLT. 

But I was also fishing on a lake, eating grilled hot dogs...  The joys of COMSUBLANT?

EDIT:  COMSUBLANT for a couple more weeks, then off to COMSURFLANT to the GEORGE H W BUSH (PCU).

[withroaj]

I did Pre-com duty back in the day as MM2....USS George Washington...still probably my favorite tour because of all the "you'll probably never do this again" stuff we did.

I was nine years old when you were an MM2.  Or do you mean the Boomer George Washington (that's an old people joke)?

[Gamecock]

Or do you mean the Boomer George Washington (that's an old people joke)?

I ain't that old . 

[Preciousblue1965]

But I was also fishing on a lake, eating grilled hot dogs...  The joys of COMSUBLANT?

EDIT:  COMSUBLANT for a couple more weeks, then off to COMSURFLANT to the GEORGE H W BUSH (PCU).

Yes but some of us get EVERY holiday off.  And if we don't, we get paid extra.

[PapaBear765]

So do some of us navy folk.....

Not those of us on sea-duty or at shore-duty.

[withroaj]

http://informationdissemination.blogspot.com/2008/07/troubling.html

This article here is pretty interesting.  It applies to the Royal Navy, but I think some nukes can read it and identify a bit.  The "observations of an Armchair Admiral" seem pretty spot on with this one, and while I think the USN has better job satisfaction numbers than the RN, the statement:

"It is a lot easier for a politician to fix a material issue than a personnel issue. The military can screw up a lot of equipment decisions, but once you start screwing your people, and let morale drop, it gets very difficult to turn things around."

Makes me think the author should leave his armchair and try out as an Active Duty admiral.  Again I have to say that it sounds like our pals across the pond have more troublesome issues to face than we do over here.  For now.

[withroaj]

In a time where we already see rock star JO's get out without shore duty?  Even as a blue shirt I would have to puke my pants if awesome officers got promotions frozen to "save money."  I honestly hope the Royal Navy held a "Fiscal Responsibility" stand down before they pulled that one.  We all see places where our commands workplaces could trim the budget here and there without impeding operational efficiency.

[nowhereman]

it is simply not about the money.........it is simply things have not changed much in 20 or 30 years....the only difference is that I couldn't gripe about it on nukeworker back then........the system back then...( the hours, the bilge diving, the suck-ups who got their nams) drove people out after 6 years and then you had to deal the flag bearing captain america's  or the people who stayed for the bone us..............

one thing  troubling I have  read about in the New London Day, is that they are taking people off the sub's and are being sent to the army(yes), and being trained as a guards for Iraqi prisons.............I would have to imagine only non-nukes at this point.............that would have to change peoples attitudes.... to reinlist for shore duty, only  to be  hijacked, sent to the army and ending in Iraq........Camp Bucca in Iraq with the sandbox sailors (individual augmentees)

[withroaj]

LT Ammon was also previously a submarine ELT.  On Eternal Patrol now...

I've been working with quite a few people who have gone on IA tours lately.  As strange as it may seem some actually want to go back and serve in the other theater (Iraq to Afghanistan and vice versa).  It's kind of wierd to see big, formiddable guys come back quiet and reserved, though.  It's crazy to hear the stories from the senior MA's that went over and worked in the investigations units, and it's offensive to hear about the people who volunteer to go for a career enhancing billet and never leave safe areas for patrols and such.  Kind of a bummer to hear about internal politics BS at the same time as truly heroic self-sacrifice.  It does help, though, to hear people come back with an optimistic outlook on the situation over there.

[deltarho]

This is possibly the only positive aspect of "n-cubed-alpha" = N³A = Nukes Need Not Apply.

My heart and prayers to those who have paid the ultimate sacrifice and their families who must try to move on without them.

[rlbinc]

300 a month is a 20,000 dollar car payment too

Not only that  300 a month - invested at 11.5% (the historic return of the stock market)
for 35 years is $1,704,034. Or a bunch of car payments.

When you get into the Control Room with us old schoolers, we'll teach you some math.

[Narmy Nuke]

The navy is doing it exactly the way you think....  Guys decide to stay in for shore duty.  They think they are going to recharge their batteries and spend quality time with the family.  But some end up spending 6 - 12 months of their 2 year shore duty in Afghanistan or Iraq.  I personally know 10 JO's that have done IA tours.

To quote my friend Jim, who is a LT, "You think we're stupid in the navy....We got nothing on the Army.  They do things in the most $%^#$% up way.  I'm stupider for having been associated with those a$$clowns."

I can speak from first hand experience.  I'm spending 15 mo of my 2 yr shore duty on IA.  Yeah...shore duty doesn't mean much anymore, although its supposed to get better as they mainstream IAs billets into the detailing process.  I rolled the dice with shore duty thinking I might avoid the IA, but...here I am in the sandbox playing Army.  Now, I understood the need for IAs at the beginning of the war, especially in areas that we, the Navy, could really contribute in like electronic warfare, but this is ridiculous.  The Army spent 5 mos training me to do an Army job for 9 mo at which point I will go back to the Navy bitter and with useless skills for my job in the Navy and the Army has nothing to gain, except in the short term.  I know the Navy is losing good folks because of this.  I know many JOs who have decided to get out instead of rolling the dice.  I know women who were planning on trying to start a family while on shore duty who decided to get out rather than risk the IA and either missing the career timing to have kids or screwing some guy who would have to take the IA because the woman was pregnant.

I also speak from experience in saying that it has really upped my appreciation of the Navy.  The Army has us beat in sheer stupidity and the way they treat their soldiers.  Although I can definitely say this IA has been alot of a$$pain, I will admit it has been rewarding and gives me another perspective on the War and what we are accomplishing here.  I don't want to get political, I have my doubts about what we are doing over here, but I also see the good things we are accomplishing.

LT Jeff Ammon...God...I wish I had gotten to know him better.  Of all places and coincidences, I only met him briefly in the 'Stan while deployed, despite both of us having served in Bremerton for several years and having several close friends in common.   He was a prior and had his 20 in.  He extended his tour here because he really believed in what he was doing.   By all accounts, he was a great guy and a great nuke and will be sorely missed.  I am better from having known him. 

[JustinHEMI05]

Thank you for standing the watch,...

Godspeed to you,...

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Thanks for being there.

Justin