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Offline NuclearVinny

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Hey, I'm a student(MM3) on the MTS-635 and it seems like this place is a mess. Almost my entire junior class on-crew is dink, the MTS has been shut down for over a month, and I think just now starting up and steaming again. It seems like there aren't enough staff to get students qualified and everyone is pissed off. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XX I guess the real question is, will the rest of my experience in the navy be similar to this? An undermanned and disgruntled crew on an old submarine that doesn't want to work anymore?

Statement edited to remove inappropriate material
« Last Edit: Sep 02, 2009, 09:06 by Gamecock »
"My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.” ~Churchill.

withroaj

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... I guess the real question is, will the rest of my experience in the navy be similar to this? An undermanned and disgruntled crew on an old submarine that doesn't want to work anymore?

Not necessarily.  You could go to a new ship or boat.  :P

The answer to your question is sort of yes.  Your future time in the Navy will be much like your current time in the Navy in that you get to decide what you take from your experience.  Right now I am stationed at what many could argue is the best (or at least top ten) place to be for a nuke on sea duty.  A lot of people absolutely hate it.  I can't really put my finger on what exactly they hate about it, but I don't hold it against anyone that they hate it.  This job isn't for everybody.  Just try to make yours a positive experience.

Offline Madcow43

I wouldn't base your expectations of fleet off Prototype.  I was an instructor on the 635 until early this year, and know that it is fairly normal for a lot of people to be dink when the boat is just coming out of a shutdown.  I also know that the staff there are willing to put forth a lot of effort for you if they see that you are putting forth effort as well. 

As for what to expect when you get to sea compared to prototype, it will be very different.  You will still have some people above you with bad attitudes, but you will not be as dependent on them to get your work done.  Also, unless things have changed for the worse since I was on my sub, manning is not nearly as bad on an operational ship as it is at prototype. 

I hope I was some help, remember to keep your head up, and as many people have said on this board, a positive attitude really does go a long way. 

Offline NuclearVinny

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Yeah thanks for the advice. I'd been reading some of these discussions and attitude is a reoccurring theme. But still, it seems like every time I start to enjoy this job or part of my training, we get tossed a whole new bag of goodies to deal with or learn about or fix or what have you. I had read one posting under the whats wrong with NNPP discussion and remember a quote about a CMC exit interview and the question "What are we doing wrong that a guy like you will walk away from 100K?" Well, part of that, for me, is the lifestyle that many of us are stuck in. We have so little time outside of work that we end up just drinking or watching TV. I used to be so active before this Navy adventure started, but now I feel that there isn't any point doing anything else because I don't have any time to be productive. I think a lot of people dislike this career path because of that exact feeling. anyway, I've been up too long, I can tell because I'm rambling. Have fun guys!
"My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.” ~Churchill.

Offline Preciousblue1965

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Let me give you some perspective;

Let's assume you were a "B" student in high school,...

You have a couple of minor scrapes with the law, but nothing serious,...

You are not college bound, or are not doing well in college, for reasons that are not important,...

You happen to score well on aptitude tests for the military,...

You happen to score above the minimum to be eligible for the Navy nuclear power program,...

You enlist, you get a sizeable enlistment bonus, in six years you can EAOS and with a bit of effort on your part walk into a job paying better than 100K your first year,...

And you are eligible for, and have earned, some really good GI Bill benefits,...

All the while there are young adults your age bustin' their behinds in college, racking up unbelievable debt against their future earnings in the guise of student loans, and hoping against hope they can earn 50K to 60K a year once they get out of school,...

There are others who will never go to college, they cannot hack it on the military aptitude testing to be eligible for the same MOS's, NEC's, etc., that you were blessed by God to have the aptitude for, and may never make more than a few percentage points above minimum wage their entire adult lives, regardless of the fact that they are fine, upstanding, human beings,...

You are a lucky man, you live in a good country, you have a bright future, the world may very well be your oyster, Providence willing,...

What you are doing now is called paying your dues, be grateful for the opportunity to be able to pay them, and the future opportunity to reap the benefit of what you are sowing,...

For where you are right now it is not easy, nothing worthwhile ever is shipmate,....

If I sound preachy, well, I am being preachy, and you are being whiny, maybe you're just tired, either way suck it up brother, many of us have been there. The lifestyle you are "stuck" in is the Navy lifestyle, it's what you signed up for. Based on all the posts from the many generations of contributors to these forums you should discern that the overall Navy lifestyle stays pretty consistent generation to generation. That would most likely be because the sea stays pretty much the same, and going down to the sea in ships stays pretty much the same.

And 9 days out of 10 it beats a foxhole (sic),....

 ;)

PS - Thank you for standing the watch,....

That was beautiful...... :'(
"No good deal goes unpunished"

"Explain using obscene hand jestures the concept of pump laws"

I have found the cure for LIBERALISM, it is a good steady dose of REALITY!

Offline Smooth Operator

Dear Nuclear Vinny,

First and most importantly, thanks for volunteering. If you did not care about your service, you wouldn't post your feelings, so I assume you care, so I give you credit for caring.

However, you are at prototype and prototype sucks, always has, always will. That's nothing against prototype, it just happens to be the hardest part of the pipeline for both the trainee and the trainer.

You have two submarines getting the crap cycled out of them and you have a team of individuals assigned to keeping them running and repaired so you can get qualified and out to the fleet. And they also have to train you. When the toy breaks, the babies cry. Its that simple. Bean counters have classes and billets planned years out and everything hinges on that MTS working. Stress levels go through the roofs when the assembly line stops moving and that is what the pipeline is, an assembly line to make nukes.

Suck it up, because I promise you, in a few months after you check in to your new command, all proud, all purty, all motivated, all thank God I am not in Charleston anymore, in your dress uniform and you take that stuff off and get yelled at for being dinq all over again, you will wish you were back at Proto seeing the sun everyday. And then you get to be eng-dinq, and paint, and crank, and be dinq ship's quals, too, and hey, we need you for a tiger team, but I am studying, hey, suck it up nub.

Enjoy your shore duty for what its worth.






Offline Adam Grundleger

I echo the above and offer you this:

I was as hot-runner as you could get in prototype.  I was on track to qual week 15.  A brand new SPU charged the lube oil sludge tank contents into the hydraulic system and took S8G down for three weeks.  I had only one UI watch left to stand to complete my qual card.  Used the time for extra study and smoked my board.

It happens.  It isn't personal, rather just a consequence of how things work.  Best advice that I can give you is:  use your idle time to get all the runtime you can off of the instructors.  Get second and third checkouts on the things you already have as long as you're not pushing anybody dink by denying them cube access.  Make something of the opportunity afforded you once you are book tight and waiting for the MTS to complete your card. 

The fleet will afford you much of the same and more.  Use what you have when you have it where you are, to badly paraphrase JPJ.  There is no situation where you have no actions open to you.  Use your situation to your best advantage.  If you can demonstrate that kind of dedication and adaptability, you may be surprised at the reception you get.  It feels funny at first, and it takes some getting used to.  It's called respect and you will have to earn it many times over.

Offline RadConRanger

Lots of good replies here. 
My advice for after Proto;
UIs, observe, make the qualified guys show you where to look for stuff then find more than they wanted.
Tolerate the cone, cus somebody's gotta pump sh_t but it does you good credit to learn your ship well.
(I can't speak for targets, sorry)
Above all, please think.  Always think.
If you got to where you are you're really smart.  You can figure stuff out, so do it.
Cheers

Offline way708

I am not staff at prototype, but I have friends that are.  For some of them, this was their time to finish that degree and look for a job at a civilian plant.  But with the things that were out of their control, their quals got put on hold too.  They, like you have the option of making the best of it.  Some will, some will not.  The only part you control is your attitude.  This will never change your entire time in the navy.  Every day, you will look in the mirror and either like what you see or not.  The choice is up to you.

Offline goobs22xx

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Let me give you some perspective;

Thanks for the reality check. I really needed that.

Quote from: Jason K
You have two submarines getting the crap cycled out of them and you have a team of individuals assigned to keeping them running and repaired so you can get qualified and out to the fleet. And they also have to train you. When the toy breaks, the babies cry. Its that simple. Bean counters have classes and billets planned years out and everything hinges on that MTS working. Stress levels go through the roofs when the assembly line stops moving and that is what the pipeline is, an assembly line to make nukes.

Thanks for this, too. It sums up perfectly what we deal with as staff and I wish that all students could read this.

Quote from: Adam Grundleger
A brand new SPU charged the lube oil sludge tank contents into the hydraulic system and took S8G down for three weeks.

and if its not the boat breaking because its old, it will break due to the operators. I felt bad because I actually laughed when I read this. Luckily, I didn't have a gigantic screw up as a new spu though some of my friends did. C'est la vie.

Offline trollarc

In my opinion, prototype was way better than the fleet. In fact, so much better that people actually wanted to go be staff there. Everywhere you go there will be some level of misery. There will always be something to stress you out (unless you aren't self motived in which case just go get some weed and get out or stay in and become one of the people that they qualify EWS "so he can advance to chief").
I am out of the Navy now and unemployed. I enjoy the freedom I have. I am looking for another job. I plan on finishing a degree. I know life will never be peaches 'n cream (god I wish though lol). I think my time at prototype and the fleet was good for me as it made me know what I do not want (I don't want my life to be centered on work exclusively as I want fun, and I don't want a job where you cannot get fired no matter how stupid or blatantly malicous you are).
I think you can get through whatever challenges you may see in the future. Don't waste yourself because things are hard now (seen multiple people get themselves kicked out simply because they didn't want to put up with things. I never wanted to put up with that sh...stuff either but I got through it and like I said I think I am better off for it.).
You can do it!

James Fuller

Offline watson764

i have an add on question to this.  my little brother is at, or more accurately, was at charleston prototype on the 626.  He was recently masted for underage drinking (righfully so) on the word of an underage female civilian living in his house.  Know he thinks that not only is he not going to be a nuke any more, but is going to get kicked out of the navy.  I recently seperated after 10 years in the program and this is totally different than anything I have ever heard of.  I realize and am not ignorant enough to believe he is telling me the whole story, but he also said a couple of kids are being kicked out for being late too many times.  Is something going on down there, or is the navy finally going back to the old way of doing things in the program just when fleet manning is at an all time low? 

Maziwrath

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i have an add on question to this.  my little brother is at, or more accurately, was at charleston prototype on the 626.  He was recently masted for underage drinking (righfully so) on the word of an underage female civilian living in his house.  Know he thinks that not only is he not going to be a nuke any more, but is going to get kicked out of the navy.  I recently seperated after 10 years in the program and this is totally different than anything I have ever heard of.  I realize and am not ignorant enough to believe he is telling me the whole story, but he also said a couple of kids are being kicked out for being late too many times.  Is something going on down there, or is the navy finally going back to the old way of doing things in the program just when fleet manning is at an all time low? 

Integrity plays a large part in the consequences at least here at NNPTC. Two people can do the same thing and go to mast, the one who is honest from the beginning usually gets the better deal.

Offline watson764

I know all about honesty and the program, I did my time.  My question was are they on a witch hunt down there, or are my suspisions probably correct and he's not telling the whole story?

Offline SpeedOften

I know all about honesty and the program, I did my time.  My question was are they on a witch hunt down there, or are my suspisions probably correct and he's not telling the whole story?
I have a good friend who just went down there within the last few months.  It's a witch hunt on alcohol.  If you drink one alcoholic beverage and drive home, and the command finds out, you are going to mast - even if you're not showing any ill effects... My friend is trying to talk the detailer into letting him go back out to sea...
« Last Edit: Oct 18, 2009, 06:14 by SpeedOften »

Offline Gamecock

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I have a good friend who just went down there within the last few months.  It's a which hunt on alcohol.  If you drink one alcoholic beverage and drive home, and the command finds out, you are going to mast - even if you're not showing any ill effects... My friend is trying to talk the detailer into letting him go back out to sea...

Which witch is which?
“If the thought police come... we will meet them at the door, respectfully, unflinchingly, willing to die... holding a copy of the sacred Scriptures in one hand and the US Constitution in the other."

Offline NuclearVinny

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Well, I did the Save a Life thing at the Redbank today.. I was trained that drunk driving is bad again. And yes it is almost a witch hunt here for drinking we have had a few incidents and now its Zero Tolerance for everything. On the plus side, I passed my fifty percent exam and put in an ELT and Welder package. I have terrible grades but I think I can make it into one of those schools. lol. I'm not here cause I'm smart.
"My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.” ~Churchill.

Offline EasyLivin

On the plus side, I passed my fifty percent exam and put in an ELT and Welder package. I have terrible grades but I think I can make it into one of those schools. lol. I'm not here cause I'm smart.

Unless things have changed, you cannot be selected for ELT school if you were in the bottom half of your power school class.
« Last Edit: Sep 17, 2009, 09:30 by EasyLivin »

Offline NuclearVinny

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I was told that there was a waiver for that... apparently ELTs are in short supply.
"My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.” ~Churchill.

Offline EasyLivin

... apparently ELTs are in short supply.

This usually means that a certain CVN is in need of ELTs. If you have a chance to be selected, go for it  :).

Offline HydroDave63

It's a which hunt on alcohol.  If you drink one alcoholic beverage and drive home, and the command finds out, you are going to mast - even if you're not showing any ill effects...

Guess how many drinks you can have prior to operating a naval reactor? Why should operating a motor vehicle and endangering other people's lives be any different?

Offline Gamecock

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Unless things have changed, you cannot be selected for ELT school if you were in the bottom half of your power school class.

Things have changed...we level load now....That means we take folks from the top, middle, and bottom of the class now.

Cheers,
GC
“If the thought police come... we will meet them at the door, respectfully, unflinchingly, willing to die... holding a copy of the sacred Scriptures in one hand and the US Constitution in the other."

JustinHEMI05

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When I was in it was top and middle. The only real part is whether or not the ELT staff likes you.

Offline goobs22xx

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Why, and since when?

At least since 2007. I handle a lot of these packages for the students and it has been this way even when I was a student going through.

I distinctly remember one class where the PMC approached our LCC and said that he needed two ELT applicants from our crew. The only two that were interested were vehemently recommended against by every single person in the crew's CoC.

Result? They're ELTs now.

As for the why....they're in really short supply right now. It seems that every class they come back asking for more ELT volunteers because even with picking up 100% of those who apply, they're coming up short of their numbers.

Given the somewhat recent problems associated with ELTs, it is kind of scary, but we seem to be in a massive "quantity over quality" mode right now across all of the rates.

Offline Neutron Whisperer

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...I guess the real question is, will the rest of my experience in the navy be similar to this?

An undermanned and disgruntled crew on an old submarine that doesn't want to work anymore?


The first part: no.  Was boot camp exactly how the rest of your time in the Navy?  Nope.  So neither will your pipeline training.

The second part: depends on where you go and what that situation is.


It's important to recognize that our duty contains the word “service” for a reason (the US Naval service).  I am serving my country and the Navy—not the other way around.  Because this is a service—not a job—there comes sacrifice; sacrifice that is made simply because it is necessary, regardless.

For the sacrifice of a service member, the Navy provides compensation by means of a salary, medical benefits, and other inherent aspects such as visits to foreign ports.  Whether this compensation is a fair trade is subjective and is part of the choice every individual makes when he nears the end of his contract with the Navy.

There are certain recompenses the Navy has given to me—a salary that exceeds my lifestyle, the ability to purchase a house, refractive eye surgery that has virtually perfected my vision free of charge, and the opportunity for lucrative employment after the Navy—that have instilled in me a feeling of indebtedness to the Navy that requires me to perform my duties as best I can, regardless.

I don’t feel I owe the Navy beyond my current ending date of obligated active service, but I do feel that my productivity should not diminish as I approach it.  In the face of thankless leaders, difficult tasks, and inadequate resources I have, and will, continue to do my best and provide input as to how to improve the Navy or my command.
Disclaimer: there is no "tone" to my post.

Offline SpeedOften

Guess how many drinks you can have prior to operating a naval reactor? Why should operating a motor vehicle and endangering other people's lives be any different?

You're taking it to the extreme.  How it was described to me was that if you have one drink, you are not allowed to drive even if it's 6 hours after you've had that drink - the CoC will still write you up for it.

Offline goobs22xx

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Draconian rules imposed on behaviors are often the result of poor decisions made by the masses when given the freedom to choose.  Perhaps too many folks decided that they could drive after having a drink or two just to find out they were wrong.  Now you all are paying the price with a zero tolerance policy.  Many commercial sites now require hardhats and safety glasses to be worn gate-to-gate and gloves to be worn when performing any manual task, whether there is a risk of injury or not.  This came about because when we were entrusted to make wise choices regarding our PPE, too many of us failed. 

Affectionately referred to as the "knee jerk", or at least one of its applications.

Good to know that it isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

Cycoticpenguin

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Hey, I'm a student(MM3) on the MTS-635 and it seems like this place is a mess. Almost my entire junior class on-crew is dink, the MTS has been shut down for over a month, and I think just now starting up and steaming again. It seems like there aren't enough staff to get students qualified and everyone is pissed off. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XX I guess the real question is, will the rest of my experience in the navy be similar to this? An undermanned and disgruntled crew on an old submarine that doesn't want to work anymore?

Statement edited to remove inappropriate material


Allow me to make this PERFECTLY CLEAR FOR YOU....


HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Yup :) My division is 43% manned, people are dink, and everyone's pissed off. Your staff is just mad because they thought they'd get a super sweet deal, and see  their buddies over at nnptc going home early every day :)

Offline Neutron Whisperer

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Allow me to make this PERFECTLY CLEAR FOR YOU....


HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Yup :) My division is 43% manned, people are dink, and everyone's pissed off. Your staff is just mad because they thought they'd get a super sweet deal, and see  their buddies over at nnptc going home early every day :)

The staff are working for incompetent leaders with inadequate resources to meet ill-defined goals...they're mad because they let that get to them.
Disclaimer: there is no "tone" to my post.

Offline HydroDave63

Feeding the trolls....tsk tsk!

Offline NuclearVinny

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OK, so maybe I was a little upset when I started this discussion. I've had to eat my words a couple of times cause of that. It's becoming clear to me that my job isn't really all that bad, actually I like what I do.  Definitely though, it has taken a toll on every other aspect of my life. For instance, I skip sleeping so I can date. I know that I'm going to spend 12 or more hours at work, so to make anything else happen I have to basically run myself into the ground every week. I have fun at work, but I also want to have fun at home. I'm sure when I (finally) hit the fleet life will get more intense, but also way more fun than school, right?
"My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.” ~Churchill.

Offline Neutron Whisperer

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OK, so maybe I was a little upset when I started this discussion. I've had to eat my words a couple of times cause of that. It's becoming clear to me that my job isn't really all that bad, actually I like what I do.  Definitely though, it has taken a toll on every other aspect of my life. For instance, I skip sleeping so I can date. I know that I'm going to spend 12 or more hours at work, so to make anything else happen I have to basically run myself into the ground every week. I have fun at work, but I also want to have fun at home. I'm sure when I (finally) hit the fleet life will get more intense, but also way more fun than school, right?

So much depends on your attitude.  If you have the wrong outlook, it doesn't matter where you are you'll be miserable.
Disclaimer: there is no "tone" to my post.

cleonard19

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i have an add on question to this.  my little brother is at, or more accurately, was at charleston prototype on the 626.  He was recently masted for underage drinking (righfully so) on the word of an underage female civilian living in his house.  Know he thinks that not only is he not going to be a nuke any more, but is going to get kicked out of the navy.  I recently seperated after 10 years in the program and this is totally different than anything I have ever heard of.  I realize and am not ignorant enough to believe he is telling me the whole story, but he also said a couple of kids are being kicked out for being late too many times.  Is something going on down there, or is the navy finally going back to the old way of doing things in the program just when fleet manning is at an all time low?  

Captain has taken a very strict stance on underage drinking around these parts since one student negligently discharged a .40 handgun into the skull of another student. Many people at the part were underage, as was the victim.  Things 'round these parts are changing. quickly.

We had all hands training today, because a SPU got into a car accident, it was discovered that he had a loaded and chambered 9mm under his driver seat on base. A week after the whole Ft. hood thing. He's been banned from all naval installations. His goose is cooked.

Any changes around here are all the doing of the personnel attached here. Capt. is a very reasonable man, but he's got to do what he's got to do.


Edited to remove actual name.
« Last Edit: Nov 13, 2009, 09:39 by Lorrie Henson »

Zunyr

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Captain has taken a very strict stance on underage drinking around these parts since one student negligently discharged a .40 handgun into the skull of another student. Many people at the part were underage, as was the victim.  Things 'round these parts are changing. quickly.

We had all hands training today, because a SPU got into a car accident, it was discovered that he had a loaded and chambered 9mm under his driver seat on base. A week after the whole Ft. hood thing. He's been banned from all naval installations. His goose is cooked.

Any changes around here are all the doing of the personnel attached here. Capt. is a very reasonable man, but he's got to do what he's got to do.


Edited to remove actual name.

Started a while ago, had a LT Staff drive off the 526 to 26 ramp and kill himself while wasted.  Couple months later, had two students racing on bushy park rd, wrapped his BMW around a tree.  then finally, after numerous DUI's and such, it was zero tolerance at that point, and then the students drinking with guns just pushed it even further over the edge.  Hell, we give out Free Cab ride cards, there's no where you can live around here where a cab couldn't get you home from downtown charleston for more than $40.  It's just stupid to drink and drive, no sympathy for underage drinking and dui's.

Offline Jechtm

Sad but true. I have been baffled since I was younger about drinking and driving. If the videos don't stop people from doing it, nothing will.
I don't drink and I don't have to.
If my shipmates need a ride home, I'd rather them call me at 3am then my SLPO give horrific news the next morning.
I am glad capt. Bailey is being strict.


Just wish people made more concious decisions, yet these things happens everyday.

"Truth is the Daughter of Inspiration;... It is like a finger pointing a way to the moon. Don't concentrate on the finger or you will miss all that heavenly glory."

~Bruce Lee

 


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