Applying for NUPOC Sub Officer. I have many questions.

[Drenaton]

First off, I would like to introduce myself. I am a masters student pursuing my degree in Engineering Management with one semester left. I got my undergrad in Chemical Engineering with about a 3.6 GPA. My passions are business and engineering, particularly in the nuclear field as I find the prospects of gen IV powerplants to have enormous potential. I am highly interested in the NUPOC program and already have everything submitted and am waiting on an interview but questions still remain... I was hoping some people on the forums could help me out. I apologize in advance for the wall of text.

1. Could someone give me a no bull **** description of what it is like being a nuclear trained officer. I have read some very unappealing things on the internet about the program but I dont know if these are from voluntolds or malcontents that somehow made it into the program or legitimate candidates who wanted to be in the program. I dont want to be part of a workplace culture that will sacrifice integrity. This blog (http://blog.electdave.org/2009/12/31/should-you-join-the-nuclear-navy-nupoc/) gave me some pause as did some of the comments on "The Stupid Shall Be Punished"

2. I was told by someone that had gone through the program that "everybody regrets joining at some point when they are on the sub" when I asked him if he ever wished he wouldnt have joined. But he also said he appreciated it later. Is it always bad for everyone?

3. I had a friend who went in during undergrad that had a higher GPA by .1 or .2 than me and was a pretty sharp guy (book wise at least). However he never PTed and never seemed to have a passion for Nuclear stuff. For a long time he couldnt even tell me what kind of reactor a sub used (which I found on wikipedia). However he said he was working as hard and as diligently as he could in prototype. He recently failed out of prototype and is being reassigned to a new community... should this worry me? I have talked to guys who were non-technical majors who made it though but that was several years ago in the program and they were academy guys which apparently is a little different. I just never expected my friend to fail out considering how good his grades were in Chemical Engineering.

4. Have you legitimately made life long friends in the program? The brotherhood aspect of the program is very appealing to me.

5. If you could improve just one thing about the nuclear/sub program what would it be?

6. Do you feel like you actually served your country during your time in?

6. Any particularly insightful knowledge of the future of the civilian nuclear power industry? As I said before the prospects of gen IV nuclear power plants interests me greatly but the rising construction costs and extremely complicated permitting process give me pause. It just always seemed strange to me that France and Japan could build nuclear power plants on reasonable schedules and cost effectively but the U.S. cannot. That is one thing that drew me to NUPOC. It is one of the few areas in which the military seems to be on par or even a leg up on their civilian counterparts... but I could be wrong. The impressive safety record and impressive innovation demonstrated when the program was created impressed me the most.

7. Related to the question above... I have seen the civilian job prospects for former enlisted detailed on this site but could someone tell me more about the opportunities for a Nuclear Sub Officer?

Thanks,

Drenaton

[Drenaton]

I have read through the collection of useful posts and someone has been PMing me with some very helpful information. However, I have a specific question for those higher up in the civilian nuclear chain.

For someone having my qualifications (in general, though I can provide more specifics) what is the best way to get one's foot in the door in the civilian nuclear industry? Looking at this site, it seems that getting your foot in the door and climbing the ladder directly is probably better than going to the Navy for 5.5 years and then getting a job.

Thanks,

Drenaton

[HydroDave63]

Looking at this site, it seems that getting your foot in the door and climbing the ladder directly is probably better than going to the Navy for 5.5 years and then getting a job.

Depends what career path you desire in the civilian nuclear field. And what's with that 5.5 years thing? Half-life of NUPOC CRUD?

[Drenaton]

I would be interested in operations or in a project management role. I eventually want to get an MBA from Harvard Business School or something similar and hopefully be able to move up into upper management once I have enough experience. Obviously, these are very long term plans, but nobody ever accomplished anything without believing they could do it and visualizing it.

[Drenaton]

Well since nobody is answering my other question, I have another question for nukes that have been/were in for a long time. Were there PEs in your command structure who you knew that could have written (or did write) you a recommendation to become a PE?

[Gamecock]

Well since nobody is answering my other question, I have another question for nukes that have been/were in for a long time. Were there PEs in your command structure who you knew that could have written (or did write) you a recommendation to become a PE?

Outside of my current duty assignment, I've never served with or under anyone who had a PE.

[Drenaton]

That is probably a much different story in the civilian world, right?

[co60slr]

Well since nobody is answering my other question, I have another question for nukes that have been/were in for a long time. Were there PEs in your command structure who you knew that could have written (or did write) you a recommendation to become a PE?

Do you think that if you collect a PE, a Harvard MBA, and a MSEM is going to land you a position as a Plant Manager?  Titles are irrelevant.  My guess is that no one has answered your questions because you're all over the map on what you want.   Engineering (i.e., PE), Business Office (MBA), Engineering Management (back to Engineering), OPS (you have no qualifications), Project Management (what project experience do you have?), etc.

Yes, most organizations have a formal program to assist you with obtaining a PE License.  You'll then be expected to go do professional engineering work (i.e., use the license).  Likewise, most have educational assistance programs that will help you with other graduate degrees.  (Navy and Commercial).

Gen IV Reactors?  They're theoretical:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_IV_reactor
Your generation/year group should be looking at the AP1000, unless you want to do research and design work for a reactor that "might" start up in 2030.

USA vs Japan vs French project management?  No clue.  Do you want to live in France?  Go for it then.  Everyone has their problems, I'll guarantee.  (That's why we need engineering managers, and engineers to solve problems).

You seem to have outstanding academic potential, but what experience do you have applying it?   In the Navy, you will learn to command a $2B submarine and her crew.   As a Commercial SRO (after entering via one of the approved pathways), you'll be equally in charge of 3000+ MW of energy and people without a six year enlisted contract, but have a union steward.  Are you ready for a leadership challenge that is not taught in college?   

People complain in a never-ending, demanding, highly technical positions because it's very challenging and you can never let your guard up.   People complain in the Navy, people complain in Commercial, people complain at NASA, people complain at the DOE.   Don't let a few disgruntled sailors posting their unique stories on the Internet lead you to a quick conclusion about the entire technical enterprise.  The issue with the Navy is mostly the long deployments...obviously.

Do you love technology and are willing to work hard?  Are you ready to be challenged more than you ever have been before academically?  Are you ready to see if you can actually apply what you've learned to "hands on" experience, not only with a seemingly unwieldy, unforgiving technology, but with the sailors, mechanics, etc that you've read about that complain constantly (but also love their job)?   Are you ready to see what you're actually made of...vice what's framed on your wall on an 8x10 piece of paper?

Navy:  Go for it.
Commercial:  Go for it.
Enlisted vs Officer in commercial:  Irrelevant...unless your commercial job announcement requires a degree.  (I've never seen one list a prior military rank before).

Go talk to an officer recruiter.  Shotgun your resume around the nuclear circuit (e.g., Westinghouse, Exelon, etc) and see what happens.  Get in the game and see where life will take you.   Take anything from an Internet forum full of strangers with a grain of salt.

Good luck.


Co60

[Drenaton]

Hey, thanks a lot Co60. You really put things in perspective. It's not that I want to have a shotgun resume, I was just idly wondering. Yeah, but you are absolutely right. I think I need leadership and practical experience in the nuclear industry if I want to make a career out of it and the Navy is the best choice for me whether I stay in or go civilian.

Feel free to ignore the next paragraph

Sorry for the confusion about the Gen IV talk. Nuclear power has become my soapbox the past year or so. I just always like to be forward looking and from a fundamental standpoint, nuclear power is the future. Plus it is already viable. Honestly, you might think I am naive, but I think in 30 or 40 years nuclear power will make all other sources nearly extinct. Its like the four minute mile. Once one guy does it, its going to be an epidemic because the benefits of nuclear are too great. Minimal pollution potentially with future designs and easily controlled pollution with current designs. Unfathomably low core damage frequencies (though the probabilities provided by reactor designers are probably to be taken with a grain of salt). Cost of electricity extremely insensitive to fuel costs. Fuel can be provided from domestic sources. It is like everything that people want is staring them straight in the face: safe, reliable, low cost, low pollution, (nearly) inexhaustible, domestic energy. Its just finally getting through people's heads that technology has advanced far beyond the days of Chernobyl and Three Mile Island. But regardless it is always going to be a challenge fighting the NIMBY mentality.

[co60slr]

Hey, thanks a lot Co60. You really put things in perspective. It's not that I want to have a shotgun resume, I was just idly wondering. Yeah, but you are absolutely right. I think I need leadership and practical experience in the nuclear industry if I want to make a career out of it and the Navy is the best choice for me whether I stay in or go civilian.

Feel free to ignore the next paragraph

There are advantages/disadvantages to going Navy or just going straight Commercial.   If 10 people were to post on this thread, you'd hear 10 different perspectives.   Hence my point, go explore each thoroughly and THEN make your decision.  If you had an Officer Recruiter and an Exelon Recruiter (or other commercial company) handing you a formal job offer, then your job search was outstanding.  You can ask us questions here for months, but you don't know what you're worth until someone hands you a job offer.

I think you need some "hands on" something to balance out your academics to prove to future employers that you can apply what you know.  The Navy will definitely offer you all of that in a very demanding way.   In Commercial, you most likely enter at the entry-level engineering route, or into OPS via the NLO route (i.e., direct hands on operating valves, equipment, etc).  If you know for 100% that your destiny is in commercial nuclear, then at the risk of being lynched here, I'd recommend going straight commercial.   However, you miss the opportunity to "see the world", and command some amazing technology.  I did 20+ years enlisted/officer...and I wouldn't have changed a thing.  However, that's my situation.

Your graduate degrees will pay off in the long run, but in the nuclear industry you have to go through their entry-level training programs (likewise in the navy...first assignment: Nuke School).   Once you learn nuclear and work your way up the ladder, your graduate degrees COMBINED with your cumulative nuclear qualifications/experience will make you VERY competitive.   Where to start?  That's your question.  Personally, I'm not sure how commercial would receive an entry-level BSChmE, where I'm sure Gamecock can share his thoughts on you getting into NUPOC.

Your GenIV reactor sounds fascinating.  It does, but in a far-off Star Trek kinda way right now.  Start a separate thread on it and you'll have some "nuke geeks" jump in there with you.  I am ignoring it for the purpose of this discussion since I don't see you working in GENIV for years.   I do know many people getting hired into AP1000...training, engineering, overseas project management.  If you're looking for a job in advanced commercial reactors and you need a job in the next 5 years, then I'd look AP1000 if I were you.   If you want to start at an operational reactor today, then you have the Navy or a PWR/BWR somewhere.

Co60

[tr]

That is probably a much different story in the civilian world, right?

It depends on the utility.  Some essentially require it for promotion to the upper engineer levels, some could care less.  Most A/E firms require it.

[Drenaton]

I got into NUPOC. Im finishing my last semester and then I go to OCS. Wish me luck. Thanks for all your replies and the existence of this forum in general.

[dmartin]

If you find yourself having any questions about OCS feel free to ask me via pm, I graduated OCS May 7th and am currently in Charleston for power school