Military Options Nuke Programs

[BigDaug]

I have been reading through the great posts and admire so many of you for replying to questions of the Newbies! 
My son is a recent U of AZ college grad with a BS in Math/Physics minor.  He wanted to go into an Officers program after college but his GPA is 2.96. So he is looking at military options for some hands-on experience.  He likes the Nuke Program and did well on their preliminary screen.  He saw the curriculum covered in Nuclear Power School he was disappointed in that he has taken most of those course in college. Recruiters encouraged him that he would do well because of it. I am wondering - would the Nuke Program be a waste of his BS degree?  Would he be with a bunch of 18 year olds? Plus six years is a long time commitment. He'd like to get a Masters at some point.

He has received advice from AF and Navy recruiters. Navy was informative and professional.  Local AF Recruiter did not know of programs based on his degree (did not know what STEM was) had to look it up then realized that AF IS in need of STEM. I have heard that Air Force has Officers Program (non-flight) for 2.5 GPA but can't find any info. Recruiter only knew of the OCS with 3.5 requirement. Does Army have Nuclear programs that anyone knows about?  AF Recruiter said my son would be assigned "somewhere" with no preference.
He likes the idea of military, training and direction. Any advice? 

[HydroDave63]

I have been reading through the great posts and admire so many of you for replying to questions of the Newbies! 
My son is a recent U of AZ college grad with a BS in Math/Physics minor.  He wanted to go into an Officers program after college but his GPA is 2.96. So he is looking at military options for some hands-on experience.  He likes the Nuke Program and did well on their preliminary screen.  He saw the curriculum covered in Nuclear Power School he was disappointed in that he has taken most of those course in college. Recruiters encouraged him that he would do well because of it. I am wondering - would the Nuke Program be a waste of his BS degree?  Would he be with a bunch of 18 year olds? Plus six years is a long time commitment. He'd like to get a Masters at some point.

He has received advice from AF and Navy recruiters. Navy was informative and professional.  Local AF Recruiter did not know of programs based on his degree (did not know what STEM was) had to look it up then realized that AF IS in need of STEM. I have heard that Air Force has Officers Program (non-flight) for 2.5 GPA but can't find any info. Recruiter only knew of the OCS with 3.5 requirement. Does Army have Nuclear programs that anyone knows about?  AF Recruiter said my son would be assigned "somewhere" with no preference.
He likes the idea of military, training and direction. Any advice? 

1. What's wrong with working with "a bunch of 18 year olds"? Guess what, most of the military nuclear people you are asking for advice, started that way.

2. "Six years is a long time commitment". Guess what, most of the military nuclear people you are asking for advice, served that or more.

Based on the above, I'd recommend Supply Corps.

[GLW]

I have been reading through the great posts and admire so many of you for replying to questions,...

With a 2.96 (74% or C- to low C) average your son is not competitive for those officer programs which have the most competition for acceptance,...

plus the military has age restrictions for acceptance, so that by the time your son does something akin to finishing his masters with some merit he may be too old for the more competitive officer programs, so he is zeroed out again,...

enlisted recruiters will likely tell your son what he wants to hear because there is always a chance he could become an admiral starting out as a fireman or seaman recruit,...

that chance is really very slim,...

I was enlisted, I speak on the officer programs from the recent vantage of my daughter, my sons, and one of my son-in-laws,...

it's still a really tough economy, the competition for the better programs is intense, the military may not be your son's best or good fit unless he really just wants to serve and everything after that is gravy,...

because good job or bad job, every day in the military is a crap shoot as to whether you get the good deal or the bad deal, and a man cannot just up and quit when and as he wants to, they (the military types) tend to have an issue with that,...

[spekkio]

I have been reading through the great posts and admire so many of you for replying to questions of the Newbies! 
My son is a recent U of AZ college grad with a BS in Math/Physics minor.

May I ask why you are reading all this material and asking questions, and not your 22 year old son?

He wanted to go into an Officers program after college but his GPA is 2.96. So he is looking at military options for some hands-on experience.  He likes the Nuke Program and did well on their preliminary screen.  He saw the curriculum covered in Nuclear Power School he was disappointed in that he has taken most of those course in college. Recruiters encouraged him that he would do well because of it. I am wondering - would the Nuke Program be a waste of his BS degree?  Would he be with a bunch of 18 year olds? Plus six years is a long time commitment. He'd like to get a Masters at some point.

2.96 might be non-qualifying for nuke officer, but there are other officer programs where your son meets qualifications, provided that he does exceptionally well on the ASTB and has extra-curriculars/community involvement. Specifically, your son should inquire about SWO/EDO options.

Your son will not use his BS in Math as an enlisted nuke. He won't even use it as a sub or SWO nuke. Officer students get a 3 week crash course in about 66% of calc-1/2, then it's onto classes like fluid flow, electrical engineering, heat transfer, but all of these are specifically focused to principles in Navy nuclear reactors. If it doesn't specifically apply to a Navy nuclear reactor, it will not be in the curriculum. Hence they won't be good for any sort of college credit at the majority of undergraduate and graduate universities.

As for a master's degree: the officer pipeline offers paid graduate programs through Naval Postgraduate School and Naval War College. Both require a department head tour, so he'd be looking at ~10 years of commissioned service minimum. With a math degree, he could attempt to ask to do Operations Research at NPS, which is a pretty decent program. The NWC does not have degree programs that would help your son with a post-Navy career and is generally reserved for O-4 and above.

However, no assignment in the Navy is guaranteed. Your son could ask for NPS and be sent to work making powerpoints in the Pentagon for his shore duty. Odds of your son getting what he wants are greatly enhanced by doing a good job and being pleasant for the CO to work with. Additionally, NPS is detrimental to aviation community career paths, if your son chooses to go that route, because he'll get non-observed fitreps when he's about to go to the O-4 screening board.

He likes the idea of military, training and direction. Any advice?

1) Allow your son to take charge of his own career. Kick his ass into reading the stuff you read and asking his own questions instead of you doing it for him. If he likes the idea of the military, then get him used to acting like an adult.

2) Your son should stop talking to enlisted Navy/AF recruiters. They don't know what STEM means because their job is to put sailors/airmen into the Navy/USAF and that doesn't require a 4-year college degree, let alone a STEM degree.

3) Based on what you said, your son should apply for Engineering Duty Officer (EDO) if he's eligible. The Navy has a master's at MIT or NPS built into the career path. If he's not eligible due to poor grades, he could go conventional Surface Warfare Officer (SWO) and attempt to lateral transfer to EDO after, assuming that they'd let him with those grades. SWO is a 4 year commitment, and they do accept people with sub 3.0 GPAs if they can do well on the ASTB and put together strong recommendations/essay/extra-curriculars. If he gets denied the lat xfer or is simply not eligible, he can either leave the service and use the GI bill to offset $18,700/year of graduate school costs, or he could roll the dice and try to get NPS on his shore duty.

4) If he doesn't like the idea of doing 4 years as a SWO with a longshot of lat transferring, he could apply for aviation. Again, the community will take him if he does extremely well on the ASTB, but their physical requirements are more stringent -- 20/40 vision or better in each eye, no sinus issues, and a handful of other things that are more thorough which I'm not completely familiar with. Pilot is a ~10 year commitment (8 years post winging, which takes about 2 years) and NFO is ~8 years (6 years post winging).

4) Enlisting will not give your son the experience and opportunities he seeks.

5) Your son screwed his college education with a 2.96 GPA, and the military won't be able to erase that.

[BigDaug]

Thanks for the recommendations and honest advice.   SWO/EDO may be an option but I doubt he will qualify short of .04 GPA points.  It is suggested that "your son should stop talking to enlisted Navy/AF recruiters." Where does someone go for enlisting advice? Greatly appreciate all the feedback.

[maroon]

Depending on his actual grade breakout, he may still have an outside shot at a submarine officer position so it could be worth him getting his grades sent up by his recruiter to be reviewed for nuke programs.  It makes a difference if his C's/D's are in things like history and english as opposed to getting C's/D's in math and physics.

Unfortunately, depending on where you live, there may only be recruiters who are enlisted nearby that are charged with recruiting officers, and their skill level can vary.  However, if your son wants more detailed information on officer programs and what the life is actually like, he should have the local recruiter put him in touch with an actual officer in the field he is interested in.  These resources are certainly available for recruiters for the nuclear programs.

Going in as enlisted with a BS in Math would give him the exact same job as a guy who just graduated high school last month, so while it may be good for some people, there are better options out there to make use of the college degree, whether in or out of the military.  Don't count on being able to become an officer after being enlisted.  While it can happen, it is a long shot and he shouldn't make his career decisions based on that.

[spekkio]

Thanks for the recommendations and honest advice.   SWO/EDO may be an option but I doubt he will qualify short of .04 GPA points.  It is suggested that "your son should stop talking to enlisted Navy/AF recruiters." Where does someone go for enlisting advice? Greatly appreciate all the feedback.

You said your son was interested in officer programs. An enlisted recruiter can't help him.

Let the officer recruiter explain what your son is eligible to do. That's not your call.

EDIT: More on the grad school thing... if that's your son's ultimate goal, his military service is generally going to make that more difficult. Most grad schools couldn't care less about military service, not even nuke. The odds are the person reviewing the app hasn't served a day in the military. A guy on my boat found that out the hard way, and he even had good grades in college. He'll be taking the GRE after being out of school for at least 3 years, that's assuming he studies/takes it on sea duty, which might not even be possible depending on the ship's schedule. The upside is that he'll have an easier time drawing from real life experiences to write his admission essays.

Also, just to clear up one thing...

With a 2.96 (74% or C- to low C) ...

It makes a difference if his C's/D's are in things like history and english as opposed to getting C's/D's in math and physics.

A 2.96 is typically approximately a B average in College, or 85%. Not terrible, but not great for a degree where people like new hires to have a strong grasp of the basics. The Navy's 4.0 scale doesn't coincide with academia's practices.

Very possible to end with that GPA without ever getting a C or D.

[Gamecock]

...
A 2.96 is typically approximately a B average in College, or 85%. Not terrible, but not great for a degree where people like new hires to have a strong grasp of the basics. The Navy's 4.0 scale doesn't coincide with academia's practices.

Very possible to end with that GPA without ever getting a C or D.

A=4
B=3
C=2
D=1
F=0

You would have to get some C's to be less then 3.0.

Cheers,

GC

[spekkio]

B- = 2.7, so not necessarily. It wasn't common, but during my short stint stashed in admissions at NPS, I did see some 'straight Bs' transcripts.

[Gamecock]

B- = 2.7, so not necessarily. It wasn't common, but during my short stint stashed in admissions at NPS, I did see some 'straight Bs' transcripts.

Real schools don't have minuses.....

http://bulletin.sc.edu/content.php?catoid=36&navoid=3740#Grade_Point_Average_

http://web.mit.edu/registrar/reg/grades/gpacalc.html

[Samabby]

Still waiting for this answer:

" May I ask why you are reading all this material and asking questions, and not your 22 year old son? "