Help | Contact Us
NukeWorker.com
NukeWorker Menu MARSSIM Discussion Group

Author Topic: MARSSIM Discussion Group  (Read 24791 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Rennhack

MARSSIM Discussion Group
« on: May 15, 2006, 03:23 »
I have started a new MARSSIM Discussion Group here.  Feel free to exchange ideas.

Offline Rennhack

Re: MARSSIM Discussion Group
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2006, 07:18 »
I have created a MARSSIM website, to help people find MARSSIM information and share resources.

If you have any suggestions for the new MARSSIM site, feel free to post them in this forum.

Check out the MARSSIM site here:

http://www.MARSSIM.com

alphadude

  • Guest
Re: MARSSIM Discussion Group
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2006, 10:04 »
In association with MARSSIM, VSP training should be taken also (two days B. Pulsipher).
COMPASS is very, very  easy to use so not a lot of training is needed there.

"Managing Uncertainty with Systematic Planning for Environmental Decision Making" taught by Sebastian Tindal is an exellent training class to take in association with VSP. Both of these are free (VSP and Managing Uncertainty) and paid for by the DOE.  An understanding on the management of the DQO process will give the MARSSIM user the background information and insight on the process that MARSSIM provides.  Sebastian believes in the incremental sampling process and I think he does an excellent job on why it should be used for scoping and assessments.

Remember 59 samples is the magic number and 100 samples will work wonders!

Offline Rennhack

Re: MARSSIM Discussion Group
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2006, 11:59 »
Remember 59 samples is the magic number and 100 samples will work wonders!
That depends on your DCGL's and area factors.  Many projects can take 12-15 samples.

Thank you for the insight on the training.  I hope others read this thread and the MARSSIM discussion picks up.

Check out the MARSSIM site here:

http://www.MARSSIM.com
« Last Edit: May 19, 2006, 02:10 by Rennhack »

alphadude

  • Guest
Re: MARSSIM Discussion Group
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2006, 09:18 »
Wellll not really.  Its more convoluted than the DCGL and area factors.  Hence the hint on taking the additional training. If you notice after a while with MARSSIM techniques you will usually have no more than 25 samples for any MARSSIM project. 12-15 samples is typical, (seems a little low-look at the stdev of the scoping and MARSSIM results to see how they agree) and is not really dependent on DCGL, but the risk you wish to assume (alpha and beta), distribution design,  variability, LLD, LBGR etc.  The 100 samples will invoke the central limits theorm thus reducing the need for statistical schemes.  59 samples will provide a nice distribution showing that most sites are log normal and should be planned accordingly.  The 12-15 samples you mention are the end of the road testing that results from limiting the decision unit size, adequate scoping surveys (lots of samples), limiting critical values, and a DCGL well below any level of concern for dose to the population.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2006, 09:36 by alphadude »

jocro

  • Guest
Re: MARSSIM Discussion Group
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2006, 11:54 »
Good thread.  Are you guys using the RESRAD program linked to MARRSIM or stand-alone?  I'm not very experienced with either and the suggested training is going to be HELPFUL....

Offline Rennhack

Re: MARSSIM Discussion Group
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2006, 06:53 »
Good thread.  Are you guys using the RESRAD program linked to MARRSIM or stand-alone?  I'm not very experienced with either and the suggested training is going to be HELPFUL....
I think you mean RESRAD linked to COMPASS

http://web.ead.anl.gov/marssim/doc/docs/ANL_EAD_TM_02_04.pdf
RESRAD Connection for Facilitating MARSSIM Analysis: An Illustration of Applying the OpenLink Concept (1 MB) ANL/EAD/TM-02-04. The focus of this work is to more tightly integrate RESRAD and COMPASS used in MARSSIM final status survey design.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2006, 06:54 by Rennhack »

alphadude

  • Guest
Re: MARSSIM Discussion Group
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2006, 09:47 »
go to the Hanford DQO page, lots of interesting stuff there

Offline mars88

  • Moderate User
  • ***
  • Posts: 61
  • Total likes: 0
  • Karma: 10
  • Tell Recruiters to use NukeWorker.com
Re: MARSSIM Discussion Group
« Reply #8 on: Feb 07, 2007, 03:06 »
one thing i do not understand after reading MARSSIM.com--exactly what are the dcgl's and where are they found?  the website had no specifics on these.  i was recently interviewing with the project manager of a job in california and he said, "the dcgl used to be (something pci/g) and now it's 1pci/g, as you know".  of course i nodded wisely, but actually, no, i didn't know.  how does anyone know?

btw, this job is for at least 6 mos, and they are still looking for a rad engineer or chp (i am up for the tech job).  if interested, let me know. 

wlrun3@aol.com

  • Guest
Re: MARSSIM Discussion Group
« Reply #9 on: Feb 07, 2007, 04:44 »
   
"For each contaminant, guideline values for residual activity on building surfaces and in contaminated soil are established. In MARSSIM terminology, these guideline values are "Derived Concentration Guideline Levels," or DCGLs. These numerical standards may be obtained through site specific computer modeling, through use of the generic NRC code DandD or established by negotiation with the applicable regulatory agency."

Basic Radiation Protection Technology, Gollnick, 5th ed., p 791


alphadude

  • Guest
Re: MARSSIM Discussion Group
« Reply #10 on: Feb 07, 2007, 05:29 »
they are values or amounts of rad material that a subject could injest and remain below some limit  10 mr or 25 etc. factors include the use of the property, pathways etc.  and why would you know some sites DCGLs ?  thats is not some common knowledge thing- what scenario did they use, what has the state required, the stakeholders, what rad material is the DCGL for and so on... its in their D&D plan but unless you have read that DCGLs are not some off the shelf value.
« Last Edit: Feb 07, 2007, 05:32 by alphadude »

alphadude

  • Guest
Re: MARSSIM Discussion Group
« Reply #11 on: Feb 08, 2007, 09:20 »
I think you are in the gray region now MARSSIM :P

Offline Llama

  • License Termination Manager
  • Moderate User
  • ***
  • Posts: 80
  • Total likes: 0
  • Karma: 220
  • Have you hugged a llama today?
Re: MARSSIM Discussion Group
« Reply #12 on: Feb 08, 2007, 06:39 »
Er....What's a DeGel
Sorry Mike I just had to do it

toz

  • Guest
Re: MARSSIM Discussion Group
« Reply #13 on: Feb 09, 2007, 08:58 »
Llama, I think DeGel is what you use to De-Spike your hair.  So you can't ask Mike what it is, he doesn't have any.


Offline Rennhack

Re: MARSSIM Discussion Group
« Reply #14 on: Feb 09, 2007, 12:25 »

Radconpro

  • Guest
Depleted Uranium Scan MDC
« Reply #15 on: Mar 23, 2007, 04:05 »
Does anyone have the formula to calculate the scan MDC in pCi/g for depleted uranium usaing a 2" by 2" NaI detector???

Thanks in advance!!

Offline Rennhack

Re: MARSSIM Discussion Group
« Reply #16 on: Mar 23, 2007, 07:17 »
I have the formula, you'll have to plug-in your own values.

Radconpro

  • Guest
Re: MARSSIM Discussion Group
« Reply #17 on: Mar 23, 2007, 08:34 »
Email me the formula if you can...radconpro@aol.com

Thanks....by the way great MARSSIM website!! Keep up the good work!

Offline Rennhack

Re: MARSSIM Discussion Group
« Reply #18 on: Mar 23, 2007, 11:45 »
Keep reminding me if I don't get to it right away.

I have a nice excel spread sheet that does it for you.

Radconpro

  • Guest
Re: MARSSIM Discussion Group
« Reply #19 on: Mar 26, 2007, 10:32 »
Please email that spreadsheet to : radconpro@aol.com

Thanks in advance!!

Offline Laning

  • Light User
  • **
  • Posts: 49
  • Total likes: 0
  • Karma: 45
  • Gender: Male
  • I love NukeWorker.com!
Re: MARSSIM Discussion Group
« Reply #20 on: Mar 26, 2007, 03:42 »
Hey Dan,...I can make you that spreadsheet too...on second thought, why not just hire me and let me work from home buddy 'ol pal!!  :-)

I hope you're doing well.

Uncle Eddie
If you're gonna be dumb, ya gotta be tough

Radconpro

  • Guest
Re: MARSSIM Discussion Group
« Reply #21 on: Mar 26, 2007, 05:45 »
What up Eric?  Go Flyers!!

Offline Rennhack

Re: MARSSIM Discussion Group
« Reply #22 on: Mar 28, 2007, 03:04 »
Try the attached spread sheet.
« Last Edit: Mar 28, 2007, 03:30 by Rennhack »

Offline Rennhack

Re: MARSSIM Discussion Group
« Reply #23 on: Mar 28, 2007, 03:31 »
Attached to this is a DQA sheet I use to make my charts.

You need to enable macros for it to work.
« Last Edit: Mar 28, 2007, 03:32 by Rennhack »

Offline Rennhack

Re: MARSSIM Discussion Group
« Reply #24 on: Apr 28, 2007, 12:44 »
People have been asking me for the procedures referenced in the spreadsheets I shared.  They are Yankee Rowe procedures, and I don't think I have permission to share them.  However, the procedures are mostly a clone of the MARSSIM manual, so just look up the appropriate section in the manual, and you should be fine.

Offline mwbarsa

Re: MARSSIM Discussion Group
« Reply #25 on: Sep 11, 2009, 02:50 »
Hi,

Does anyone know if MARSSIM has any specific guidance on renovated interior building surfaces? Case in point... a building stored radioactive materials at one point in time long ago, the material was removed not quite as long ago, and then the building was completely gutted and renovated fairly recently. Obviously FSS should have been done after the material was taken out, but let's say that either that slipped through the cracks or record of it was lost before the facility wanted to terminate its license. Could that building be treated as non-impacted or would it be necessary to chop up tiles/put holes in walls trying to find original surfaces?

Thanks!!!!

Offline mwbarsa

Re: MARSSIM Discussion Group
« Reply #26 on: Sep 11, 2009, 03:59 »
Thanks for the reply!

I guess to clarify a bit more - for all intents and purposes, license termination would occur fairly soon (actually, although that is the ultimate goal, the intermediate goal is just to have the building removed the license, and this action would be happening much sooner than full-blown termination)

I know this is probably a gray area, but does any guidance, MARSSIM or otherwise, address issues such as building renovations, inaccessible survey location points, etc.? Oftentimes I've found that it's difficult to real-time field conditions with MARSSIM guidance

Offline mwbarsa

Re: MARSSIM Discussion Group
« Reply #27 on: Sep 14, 2009, 11:23 »
That's the main gray area - institutional knowledge of the site would dictate that a free release survey did indeed occur at the time materials usage ceased (prior to renovation); however, at some point in time, the record of the survey was lost - so there is a very high certainty that no residual contamination would be present, but just no paper saying so

Offline retread

  • Old, fat meter reader
  • Heavy User
  • ****
  • Posts: 434
  • Total likes: 0
  • Karma: 420
  • Gender: Male
  • Every day above ground is a good one
Re: MARSSIM Discussion Group
« Reply #28 on: Dec 08, 2010, 09:15 »
Thanks Marssim!  I'm looking at it as I type.
In dwelling, be close to the land.
In meditation, go deep in the heart.
In dealing with others, be patient and kind.
In speech, be true.
In ruling, be just.
In business, be competent.

Chimera

  • Guest
Re: MARSSIM Discussion Group
« Reply #29 on: Dec 11, 2010, 04:30 »
Thanks for the reply!

I know this is probably a gray area, but does any guidance, MARSSIM or otherwise, address issues such as building renovations, inaccessible survey location points, etc.? Oftentimes I've found that it's difficult to real-time field conditions with MARSSIM guidance

Now that I'm dealing with MARSSIM and MARSAME, I've been a little surprised to see just what it does - and more importantly, doesn't - say about this whole dispositional survey topic.  In a nutshell, both seem to say that you have to have a survey plan for final disposition of whatever you're planning to get rid of.  While they offer some basic guidance as to how those surveys should be conducted, that seems to be what the documents cover.  It's been my limited experience that most "survey plans" seem to consist of telling the Techs to do a survey while relying on the Techs' judgement when performing the survey.  While I may furnish my Techs with additional information - if I know it ahead of time - I have yet to see any type of "survey plan" before the fact.  Yes, we work in accordance with our site procedures as well as the Federal regulations.  However, I've already seen "real life" catch us off guard way too many times.  Changing where the materials are to be dispositioned long after they've been removed from the buidling and are already packaged has caused a lot of extra work, too.

I guess, based on what I've heard over the years and read here, I was expecting a more rigorous document than what I've found.  It all still seems to fall on the shoulders of the Techs in the field to attempt to anticipate what's going on than any sort of direction prior to the work being started.

 


NukeWorker ™ is a registered trademark of NukeWorker.com ™, LLC © 1996-2021 All rights reserved.
All material on this Web Site, including text, photographs, graphics, code and/or software, are protected by international copyright/trademark laws and treaties. Unauthorized use is not permitted. You may not modify, copy, reproduce, republish, upload, post, transmit or distribute, in any manner, the material on this web site or any portion of it. Doing so will result in severe civil and criminal penalties, and will be prosecuted to the maximum extent possible under the law.
Privacy Statement | Terms of Use | Code of Conduct | Spam Policy | Advertising Info | Contact Us | Forum Rules | Password Problem?