Rent a tech Union debate

[thenukeman]

The federal indictment also alleges that Gambino associates extorted people in the construction industry, embezzled from labor unions and engaged in illegal loansharking and bookmaking.

Three of the seven murders alleged in the indictment involved victims who weren't criminals.

"It's a fallacy to think organized crime murders occur within the closed shop," said Mark Mershon, head of the FBI's New York office.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-02-07-mafia-arrests_N.htm?loc=interstitialskip

[illegalsmile]

OK, so what's the name of the company behind Door Number One?

[Already Gone]

I am sooooo throwing the flag.

Okay, so who is this company?

Can any company bargain with NPUA, or just this one?

Can anyone be a duly elected officer of the NPUA?  Who are the officers?  How were they elected?  When is the next scheduled election?  How many of them are related/married to the officers of this Door Number 1 company?

There is too much that is NOT being revealed here.  And, I am not about to buy a pig in a poke.

Even if this is all legitimate, the company who is paying $35 and GSA per diem is still not going to have any work for all those people.  Let's do some math.  $35/hour x 0 hours = $0.  So, how is this better?

[DJ@Retired]

OK I heard rumor of a new union. THE I.O.P.O.R.P.T International Orignation of Piss Off Radiation Protection Technicians. You don't have to join. Your already member. Paying dues all your life. Benefits plenty.  Heart Attacks, Strokes, Asbestos, Smoking, Drinking, Divorce, Lead poison Self Medcation, Self Abuse, Cancer, Suicidal ideation and meeting & working with some of the best dam people in the world. It don't get any better then this! 

[thenukeman]

Most Outages already staffed, But I am still holding out for a vice presidency and 38 an hour NRRPT in the NPUA union. Show me the money PM me and see if we can work something out.

[RDTroja]

OK I heard rumor of a new union. THE I.O.P.O.R.P.T International Orignation of Piss Off Radiation Protection Technicians. You don't have to join. Your already member. Paying dues all your life. Benefits plenty.  Heart Attacks, Strokes, Asbestos, Smoking, Drinking, Divorce, Lead poison Self Medcation, Self Abuse, Cancer, Suicidal ideation and meeting & working with some of the best dam people in the world. It don't get any better then this! 

I have been in this industry at varying jobs (mostly RP related) since 1974. I am not Pissed Off (occasionally I have been of course, but show me someone who has not) nor have I had a heart attack, stroke, Asbestos problems, lead poisoning, Cancer or suicidal thoughts. I don't smoke, but I do drink, but not to excess, except for you people that think one or two drinks a day is excessive. I have been divorced 3 times -- once before I started traveling, once after I stopped traveling (my second wife was a tech too) and once that was due to end before I started traveling again. I don't blame any of them on my job. The only self-medicating I do is with Homeopathic remedies.

However, I have worked with some of the best people in the world (and a few that most certainly do not fit in that category.) At least you got one small part right.

This job is not for everybody. For those that hate it there is an easy way out.

[illegalsmile]

Let's play "The Price Is Right"

Behind Door Number One:
We have a company willing to pay you $35/hr for a Sr RP Tech, the federal per diem rate, federal travel, and a comprehensive health benefit package. You are represented by a nationwide union that will have a ratified agreement on overtime hours, holidays, meals, sick time, representation during disciplinary action, and a pension plan.

Behind Door Number Two:
We have companies that consistently pay you in the low $20s/hr for a Sr RP Tech, averages  $90/day in per diem, capped travel, no benefits, no representation, recruiters that mislead you to get you to the jobsite, terminates techs on the fly without even an investagatory meeting, no documentation, no just cause.

Now.. let me think. Hmmm. How about door number one Bob.

The Nuclear Professionals Union of America is a grassroots organization dedicated to promoting social and economic justice for working people in the nuclear industry. That's from the front page of the NPUA's website. Research it for yourself. Call them and ask them your questions. They've picked up the phone every time I've called them.

They are not asking anyone to "sit out" this Spring. They are negotiating a collective bargaining agreement with a company that has contract proposals at all of the outages this Spring. But the utilities will not award a backup contract unless the primary contract companies, Bartlett and Atlantic, can't staff the outages.

We have to help ourselves. There is another option out there.
 

but you still haven't told us the name of the company behind door #1. could it be there is nobody behind door #1?

[RDTroja]

Let's play "The Price Is Right"

Behind Door Number One:...

but you still haven't told us the name of the company behind door #1. could it be there is nobody behind door #1?

Don't expect an answer. He hasn't even figured out that there is no 'Door Number 1' in 'The Price is Right.' The doors were in 'Let's Make a Deal.' Carol Merrill would be so disappointed.

[shovelheadred]

.."RD"..Great reply..I agree with you...I have worked with some of the best people in the world in this business, some of them I have known since the canoe club in the 80's...alot of them knew me and remember things about me that I don't....I have been sober and clean for 10 years...I still get people reminding me of " the old daze"...well those old daze, aren't what I am about now...I like you chose to take a different route other than RP, spent some of my money on courses, spent my off time under instruction on the Manipulator crane...and got a different job..I have a couple marriages, and my wife now has alot better husband than my first wife.....and I would like to thank Rhennhack for starting and keeping this website going, we can talk freely( well most of the time)..and discuss, debate and state our opinions..especially about this topic..and get alot of information about our friends and family...and occaisionaly a job...this topic is about a union,,,well I hope it works, because we have tried before, not successfully, because it wasn't tried the best way, nor by the best people and the information that was put out about it was hit and miss,,,with NUKEWORKER.COM...you get it now....the information age,,the 21st century might just put contract RP technicians salaries and benefits where they should be...and with all the hype about new construction, this industry is getting ready to bust wide open like it was when we first started.....just a reply from an old squid, turned biker...that can't remember working Oconee...but I do remember cash per diem from IRM....red

[DJ@Retired]

I have been in this industry at varying jobs (mostly RP related) since 1974. I am not Pissed Off (occasionally I have been of course, but show me someone who has not) nor have I had a heart attack, stroke, Asbestos problems, lead poisoning, Cancer or suicidal thoughts. I don't smoke, but I do drink, but not to excess, except for you people that think one or two drinks a day is excessive. I have been divorced 3 times -- once before I started traveling, once after I stopped traveling (my second wife was a tech too) and once that was due to end before I started traveling again. I don't blame any of them on my job. The only self-medicating I do is with Homeopathic remedies.

However, I have worked with some of the best people in the world (and a few that most certainly do not fit in that category.) At least you got one small part right.



This job is not for everybody. For those that hate it there is an easy way out.

RD,  I was just generalizing or trying to capture all the things I seen or done which is impossible. It was not met to be a slam on anybody or Rad Techs in general. It good to be careful. But with this post I was trying to have people think a Little bit more positively. Instead of all the negative things about the past. You know I could write a small text on what I don't like and novel on what I do. Sorry if I offend you.  DJ 

[RDTroja]

RD,  I was just generalizing or trying to capture all the things I seen or done which is impossible. It was not met to be a slam on anybody or Rad Techs in general. It good to be careful. But with this post I was trying to have people think a Little bit more positively. Instead of all the negative things about the past. You know I could write a small text on what I don't like and novel on what I do. Sorry if I offend you.  DJ 

I am not offended, just pointing out that not all contract HPs are pissed off about their lot in life. Or alcoholics, drug users, or otherwise poisoned by their job. In my experience, those that feel particularly abused in this industry did a lot to bring it on themselves... or at least did nothing to prevent it.

[HenryBlack]

Seems to me that this "New Company" is all to mysterious. In my 26+ years I have heard of and seen a lot of New Companies come and go, but I've never seen one that wouldn't at least let you know their name. If everyone wants a union then the news should be easier to find. I work pretty much where I want to and when I want to and make what I agree to. I too have worked with a lot of great people and a lot of slugs but I at least decide for myself where that is going to be. My advice would be to work hard, show up on time and stay till the end and then your name will be good enough to keep you working. If there was a union for Rent-a-techs then I would probably join but I would have to see more about it first.

[incrediblehulk]

Great post, Henry. Karma to ya!

[shane3106]

   I know I'm newer to the business than most. I also understand that I have a lot to learn as well. I also know that with unions it protects how do you say, certain people. We have all worked with subpar coworkers and are pretty fed up with that. Every outage we do, go to we see the same "desk techs" Making the same amount of money as us go getters. I have trouble backing an idea with out more proof. The idea sounds awesome, I would love to be represented, benefits, more money, a little more job security. But, at the same time, I can't afford to put all my trust into this idea yet. Unless with out a doubt, there is more concrete evidence. I'm not trying to step on my fellow peers feelings or be the pessimistic puke. Before everyone gets all emotionally attached to this, let's get the facts straight. Of course the recruiters at Bartlett and Atlantic are bending the truth. They have jobs, they forget with out those of us field workers, not just Techs, they wouldn't have jobs. I don't know the numbers, but there are those that have been a contractor, laborer, etc. Seems to me they have forgotten where they came from. Am I wrong for feeling and thinking as I do. Without cold hard facts, I wouldn't feel right paying dues to a group of people that have will not represent me, my fellow coworkers. I don't like the fact that we bust our rearends day in and day out, we get lower per Diem's, hourly pay, caped travel even with the sickening rise of gas prices. I love going to outages and spending a ton of money on room and board and now a ton of gas, especially when I still have a mortgage payment.

[Already Gone]

You see my point?  Look at your post.  We ALREADY have the weak, the lame (figuratively speaking), the untrained and the lazy working alongside the heavy hitters for the same pay.  Now, if someone has a disability that makes it necessary for them to work their shifts at the desk, the LAW protects them - not a union and not the company.  What we are talking about here is actually those who are not handicapped, but lazy or incapable.  The concept that a union protects these second-tier techs is not enough of an argument against unionizing.  They are ALREADY protected by the companies who keep putting them to work - because they charge for them by the hour, and and hour is an hour.

Like I keep saying:  I 'm not advocating that everyone jump up and join a union.  But, whenever I see an argument for or against one, I'm going to challenge it.  That way, the decision will not be based on a lot of emotions and untested ideas - like this one.  There are workers on the job who can't or won't pull their weight.  They are here without a union; they will be here with a union.  As far as I can tell, this argument is a wash.

Your second argument - that your work is arranged by, and your interests are protected by, persons who are out of touch with the workers in the field.  That is always going to be true.  Even those who used to do the job back in the day are somewhat out of the loop with the way things are today.  In fact, they are even more jaded by their own past (and irrelevant to today) experiences.

The question for you is this:  If you don't like what you are getting, what are you going to do to change it?  You may come to the conclusion that it is impossible for you to better your lot as long as you stay with the same job.  That was my answer.  There are too many people who are more than happy to travel on their own time, for less than the maximum mileage and per diem allowances, and not-so-great pay.  You try to upset their little comfort wagon and they are going to kick you off.

Go back to college, broaden your scope of abilities, polish your resume, and start shopping for a better job.  Leave this one for the ones who like it the way it is.

[justme]

Wish there was something out there that was worthwhile.  What is out there is just a repeat of the past for more money per month.  Nothing concrete to offer, just empty promises.  And for those who say "Open a line of communication with them (NPUA) and read the website", many of us have and still nothing concrete, just empty promises and trust us.  Why should we trust someone who is self appointed and not voted in.  Sounds more like a company than a union.

I think things will change with experience leaving the field and non experience and those who are either lazy or don't or cant work left.
Just the way it looks from a workers stand point.

[LaFeet]

You see my point?  Look at your post.  We ALREADY have the weak, the lame (figuratively speaking), the untrained and the lazy working alongside the heavy hitters for the same pay.  Now, if someone has a disability that makes it necessary for them to work their shifts at the desk, the LAW protects them - not a union and not the company.  What we are talking about here is actually those who are not handicapped, but lazy or incapable.  The concept that a union protects these second-tier techs is not enough of an argument against unionizing.  They are ALREADY protected by the companies who keep putting them to work - because they charge for them by the hour, and and hour is an hour.

Here Here... cive that guy a harumph!!

This is so true.... and unfair to boot.   I don't mind busting my buttocks for my pay.  I even take pride in the work I do, push myself to do the best that I can.  But I get steamed when I see the turd that cant or wont climb a ladder or has a problem dressing out  and gets paid the same or more than I do.

[RADBASTARD]

The thing I hate is when I always get picked to do those so called TECH A and A- jobs and get the same as the ones who always sit the control points.
The utilities always seem to get the few who they trust and the rest just seem to muddle along and get the same pay.
I'm not sure of a solution for this problem but im open to suggestions.
Maybe the union could scale something on time in the bizz/jobs that you have covered.
I don't know.

[Melrose]

The solution is simple.  Utilities need to stop hiring the 'psuedo-techs' that practice smashing their asses all day because that's what they've been doing to get their time.  They have NO initiative, no ambition, no useful purpose.

Alas.... that'll never happen.  The utilities bring in warm/luke warm bodies just fill the numbers.

Until the utilities consider RP/HP techs a useful tool in their everyday/outage operation, they'll never care who they bring in, much less whether you do the work of the three geriatric, out of shape techs left to play access nazi.

Come in, do the work assigned, leave. 

Sorry, that's just the way it is.  A union is just gonna protect the slugs, and give them leverage if they ever are denied work.
Look at union house techs across the country.  Lots are worth more than their weight.  A little more are riding the union card, and the utility is better off without them, but they're stuck.... because of the union.

[UncaBuffalo]

The thing I hate is when I always get picked to do those so called TECH A and A- jobs and get the same as the ones who always sit the control points.
The utilities always seem to get the few who they trust and the rest just seem to muddle along and get the same pay.
I'm not sure of a solution for this problem but im open to suggestions.

How 'bout if the contracts had a special pay for 'Returnee Hot-Job-Coverage Guru'?

[RDTroja]

How 'bout if the contracts had a special pay for 'Returnee Hot-Job-Coverage Guru'?

It would still come down to someone's friend getting the desigantion.

[Chimera]

The thing I hate is when I always get picked to do those so called TECH A and A- jobs and get the same as the ones who always sit the control points.
The utilities always seem to get the few who they trust and the rest just seem to muddle along and get the same pay.
I'm not sure of a solution for this problem but im open to suggestions.
Maybe the union could scale something on time in the bizz/jobs that you have covered.
I don't know.

How would we determine if the work was actually done?  Go by the resume write up?  Should they base pay premiums on dose received in previous outages or lifetime totals or should a bonus be paid based on the most dose received during the outage?  Wouldn't we need some way to discover if the job was done effectively?  What if that's the only plant that utilizes that particular tech in that sort of critical position?  Would they lose or keep the premium on subsequent jobs?  Should the union/utility pay a premium based solely on time spent in the business?  The arguments for pay based on "merit" or "time in grade" can work both ways in "real life" as we have all seen.  As far as that goes, how would we determine the relative "merits" between positions?  Is the Yard-dog who spends most of his time smearing and clearing any less critical to the success of the utility and their outage than the tech who covers generator work or deconning the cavity?
And, lastly, how would a union address these (and other) issues to the mutual satisfaction of the utilities and the Techs?

[UncaBuffalo]

It would still come down to someone's friend getting the desigantion.

I don't mind if they take the designation...as long as they can pull their weight...

How would we determine if the work was actually done?  Go by the resume write up? 

That's why I think it would have to be for returnees only...

[RAD-GHOST]

Sure seems strange that one of the Big Icons of the industry, (INPO, NRC, NRRPT, ANS, Contract Companies), hasn't stepped forward to set some sort of criteria for the industry?

The feedback seems to be the same across the board, about 2:5 techs working the outage!  3:5 supporting the outage!  I heard a couple of Technicians actually pushed the ALARA venue at a couple of utilities, 40% of the Tech's with 90% of the department dose!  That's a rather interesting statistic for identifying the effectiveness of an ALARA program!  If those individuals are that critical to the safe and efficient support of the project, shouldn't they receive some sort of premium for their risk? 

In case anyone lost track of the Risk Factor, Ionizing Radiation is still on that List!

Although I don't believe that dose should be use as a performance indicator, I find it unreasonable for two qualified ANSI 3.1 seniors to have a difference in dose of 2 mr vs. 400 mr at any project!  If the pay's the same and the stay's the same, then the dose should also be relatively equal!

Kind of Obtuse, don't you think..............RG!

[PWHoppe]

Although I don't believe that dose should be use as a performance indicator, I find it unreasonable for two qualified ANSI 3.1 seniors to have a difference in dose of 2 mr vs. 400 mr at any project!  If the pay's the same and the stay's the same, then the dose should also be relatively equal!

Kind of Obtuse, don't you think..............RG!

I have seen technicians covering the same high dose job with wide variances in exposure. At first glance one would think that the technician with more dose is obviously doing a better job of controlling the work than the technician who has 1/2 of the exposure of the first technician.

Upon further review you find that the technician with double the dose is in reality just hanging around the higher dose areas, maybe out of curiosity(?) of the work being done. This does not equate to more pay in my world.

Using dose received as a measure of coverage being provided, is not a good way to go.

Of course this is just my opinion and I could be wrong