The MMPI and Depression

[alphacookie]

Here the facts, short and sweet:
Suffered from depression about a year and a half ago.
Was on meds.  I weened myself off.

I have been offered a job requiring unescorted access.  I, of course, have to take the MMPI like a good many here.

Now the questions:
Is the MMPI geared toward determining present mental state or is it designed to uncover things like past depression?  There is a big difference between "Do you" and "Have you felt _______(fill in a depression symptom of choice).
At any point during my physical, FFD screening and psycological screening, will I have to divulge the past depression?  If asked, I will be honest.
I hope I am not screwed.

Long time lurker.  Definitely glad to be here.

[Nuclear NASCAR]

First off, welcome to Nukeworker! 

If you've done much lurking you've probably already about honesty being the best policy, it applies here also.  Answer the questions honestly, you'll probably get a visit with the psychologist and be honest with him also. 

[illegalsmile]

Past treatments are seldom a significant consideration in granting unescorted access. If anything comes up through the MMPI, they will have you come in to talk to a psychologist who will ask you what you meant and maybe if you're having any problems now. Like everyone here has always said, be honest.

[JustinHEMI05]

Speaking of MMPI, I just got done with it last week. It seemed kinda silly to me... IE how could someone screw it up? Or is there something I am missing? My favorite question was "DO YOU HATE EVERY MEMBER OF YOUR FAMILY?"

Justin

[Already Gone]

First, to Justin.  No, you can't screw it up.  Psychos think that they are normal and everyone else is insane.  So, what you see as the obvious answers are obvoius only to you.
However, they have ways of knowing if you are giving true answers or the "right" answers.  It is called "fake-good".  Then, once you have taken the test (which was meant to be given only once in a lifetime) you can score a flat curve.  It basically means that you already expected to be hit with the wierd questions and answered accordingly.
The test used to be longer - over 500 questions.  It was trimmed to remove ones that were outdated or refer to homosexuality, which is no longer considered a psychological disorder.

Now, on to alpha cookie.  I "suffered" from depression for years and years.  Went through a bunch of meds, and also "weaned" myself (although the last one helped me quit smoking in less than a week after 25 yers of a pack a day).
Even before I was diagnosed and medicated, I passed the MMPI with no problems.  Later, when I disclosed all this on the questionnaire, the shrinks cleared me with no hassle at all.  Depression is far more common than anybody thinks.  It is usually not a serious problem, and has many common and treatable causes - such as the sleep apnea which affected you.  Depression isn't even a good name for it.  (Dysthymia is the medical term)  Many people who are afflicted by the serotonin imbalance in their brain don't even feel sad most of the time.  It is more like being tired and bored than sad, although sad feelings are definitely a frequent symptom.  It is not even related to - and should not be confused with - bipolar disorder, which is a major cause of manic behaviour and suicide.  Unfortunately, both diseases have been known as "depression" for a long time, which causes people to confuse or somehow connect the two.
The meds get blamed for a lot of suicides (especially by the "church" of Scientology) but we're talking about people who are medically predisposed to suicide anyway.  Someone with a severe case of a disease, who takes a medicine that is normally prescribed for the disease, and then dies from an effect of the disease, was not necessarily killed by his medicine.  But, for most of us, this isn't even a consideration.  We needed the meds; we took the meds; we got better.  Period.
The reason I am going so far into the details, and divulging so much about myself, is that I think it should be okay to talk about being sick, and the stigma attached to depression will go away when more people admit publicly that we have the symptoms.  Whether you need to stay on the meds or not, most people still get better at some point.  It is no big deal.  Nobody should feel that there is something inferior about them because they have this.  I consider myself to be rather successful in life and at work.  I'm pretty happy most of the time, and never a danger to others.  I'm sure that the same is true of you.  Don't sweat it.

[alphacookie]

Gentlemen,
Thanks for the welcome and thanks for the info.

BeerCourt,

I appreciate what you said.  The last paragraph is especially true.  Thanks for your help.

[JustinHEMI05]

Mine was 567 questions. So they are going to know that I lied when I checked FALSE for YOU HATE EVERY MEMBER OF YOUR FAMILY?

Justin

[Already Gone]

You got the long form.  The shorter version has fewer than 400 questions.  They won't know about any specific question.  You can say that your bowel movements are made of styrofoam and still get a normal score on this test.  What they identify are patterns of answers which point toward a person having certain mental proclivities - including the tendency to give answers that are percieved to be acceptable instead of telling the truth.

[JustinHEMI05]

Ah neato. From the questioning I figured that it was something like that.

Justin

[Camella Black]

Now, on to alpha cookie.  I "suffered" from depression for years and years.  Went through a bunch of meds, and also "weaned" myself (although the last one helped me quit smoking in less than a week after 25 yers of a pack a day).
Even before I was diagnosed and medicated, I passed the MMPI with no problems.  Later, when I disclosed all this on the questionnaire, the shrinks cleared me with no hassle at all.  Depression is far more common than anybody thinks.  It is usually not a serious problem, and has many common and treatable causes - such as the sleep apnea which affected you.  Depression isn't even a good name for it.  (Dysthymia is the medical term)  Many people who are afflicted by the serotonin imbalance in their brain don't even feel sad most of the time.  It is more like being tired and bored than sad, although sad feelings are definitely a frequent symptom.  It is not even related to - and should not be confused with - bipolar disorder, which is a major cause of manic behaviour and suicide.  Unfortunately, both diseases have been known as "depression" for a long time, which causes people to confuse or somehow connect the two.
The meds get blamed for a lot of suicides (especially by the "church" of Scientology) but we're talking about people who are medically predisposed to suicide anyway.  Someone with a severe case of a disease, who takes a medicine that is normally prescribed for the disease, and then dies from an effect of the disease, was not necessarily killed by his medicine.  But, for most of us, this isn't even a consideration.  We needed the meds; we took the meds; we got better.  Period.
The reason I am going so far into the details, and divulging so much about myself, is that I think it should be okay to talk about being sick, and the stigma attached to depression will go away when more people admit publicly that we have the symptoms.  Whether you need to stay on the meds or not, most people still get better at some point.  It is no big deal.  Nobody should feel that there is something inferior about them because they have this.  I consider myself to be rather successful in life and at work.  I'm pretty happy most of the time, and never a danger to others.  I'm sure that the same is true of you.  Don't sweat it.

BeerCourt, this is by far the best post you have made ever. I could not say it any better and won't even try. Thanks for being open and honest and most importantly sincere.

[UncaBuffalo]

Many people who are afflicted by the serotonin imbalance in their brain don't even feel sad most of the time.  It is more like being tired and bored than sad, although sad feelings are definitely a frequent symptom.  It is not even related to - and should not be confused with - bipolar disorder, which is a major cause of manic behaviour and suicide.  Unfortunately, both diseases have been known as "depression" for a long time, which causes people to confuse or somehow connect the two.

Hey BC,  Thanks for this info...I wasn't aware that there were two different 'depressions'...I'll have to look into that concept some more...




I used to be 'One Moody B@@@@@@' (as a former girlfriend put it)...things got a lot  better when I discovered a couple ways to self-treat:
1.  Flax- & Fish-Oil...apparently my Omega-3 fatty acid ratios were off, because I don't get nearly as 'low', nearly as often since I started taking the supplements.  If (like me) you don't like doctors, you might try this for 6 weeks and see if it helps you as much as it helps me.
2.  Light therapy...during the winter, I avoid S.A.D. by cranking up a full-spectrum light...or, better yet, taking off for southern climes!

[Camella Black]

Hey BC,  Thanks for this info...I wasn't aware that there were two different 'depressions'...I'll have to look into that concept some more...




I used to be 'One Moody B@@@@@@' (as a former girlfriend put it)...things got a lot  better when I discovered a couple ways to self-treat:
1.  Flax- & Fish-Oil...apparently my Omega-3 fatty acid ratios were off, because I don't get nearly as 'low', nearly as often since I started taking the supplements.  If (like me) you don't like doctors, you might try this for 6 weeks and see if it helps you as much as it helps me.
2.  Light therapy...during the winter, I avoid S.A.D. by cranking up a full-spectrum light...or, better yet, taking off for southern climes!

I did a term paper of Seasonal Affective Disorder several years ago it is an amazing disorder and many people suffer from this - 10 to 20 pecent of Americans may have a mild form of it. I actually don't see mine return until somewhere are Feb or March and by May I am all better.

[alphacookie]

Well, I took the MMPI.  The shrink said I passed with flying colors and that I would not have had to see him if I was not hired for a critical position.  He said the depression was a minor issue.  He did give me the green light.

However, as I was doing my physical the next day, I asked about how long before I am given the go ahead to start work.  They were not sure, but said the doctor would have to sign off on the physical once all the results came in and that he may want more info from my old doc's, regarding my past treatment with regards to depression.

If I was cleared by the shrink, am I not cleared, psychologically at least -or- can the doc/someone else override the shrink?

As I indicated before, I weaned (Thanks again BeerCourt for correcting me.) myself off the meds.  However,  I am curious and think people should know more about this very misunderstood topic. 
Can you have unescorted access and be in licensing class on antidepressants?
Can you be a licensed operator and be on antidepressants?

I read 10 CFR part 10 and it is kind of vague.

[alphadude]

you can hold the cert but u may not be on the board.

[alphacookie]

you can hold the cert but u may not be on the board.

By "on the board", I believe you mean actual watch in the control room?  I definitely have a lot to learn and very much look forward to it as well.

Thanks for your input.

[alphadude]

if you pass the physical pretty much u are in.

[cincinnatinuke]

Wonderful topic and posts by all.  Not to get all "me too" and mushy, but I have battled depression for some time now.  Its nice to see others cope and become successful.  You give hope to me and I am sure to others.

David

[flamatrix99]

I have had to take the MMPI 3 times so far and each time is it was approx 567 questions.

[Already Gone]

You see?  Once somebody breaks the taboo, people start feeling comfortable about talking about this "dark" subject.  Look how many have already come forth right here.
You aren't alone.  You should have no trouble with your career.  As always, tell the truth and you can't go wrong.
I didn't mean to correct your spelling.  I didn't notice it.  I put "weaned" into quotes because I thought it was appropriate to do so for some reason I can't explain.
As UncaBufallo points out, there are other cures besides drugs.  First, as in your case, curing the underlying cause of the depression eliminates the need to treat the depression.  I hear that the full-spectrum lights are really effective.  My doctor recommended it once, but it was supposed to be for an hour a day at about 8 to 9 a.m.  Didn't fit my woork schedule.
I had what my doctor called "double-depression".  This was a combination of Major Depressive Disorder (Dysthymia) and Seasonal Affective Disorder (unfortunately abbreviated SAD).

I must warn you of one thing.  Nuclear operators work ROTATING SHIFTS.  This was a huuuugggge contributor to both of my forms of depression.  If you have the SAD type of depression, working nights or rotating can really f><k you up.  But, you may no longer even have to worry about this.  If your apnea is treatable, and the depression is gone, then it is gone.

Good luck.  Remember to post here if you have any problems.  We are no medical doctors or psychologists, but among us we have probably tried everything that there is.  At least we're here as proof that you can get through it.

[Already Gone]

I have had to take the MMPI 3 times so far and each time is it was approx 567 questions.

Another interesting thing about the MMPI is that it was never meant to be a "Psychiatrist in a box" as it is being used in nuclear power.  It was simply a clinical assessment tool to be used by mental health professionals in assessing, and diagnosing general disorders in new patients.
Once you have taken it once, it is no longer a valuable tool for this.  It is even LESS valuable for the purpose that nukes have given it.  I even have a way to get the 567 questions done in less than 45 minutes and still not have to talk to the shrink.  You read every question, but only mark the "true" answers on the scan-tron sheet.  There are only about 50 or so of those.  If you are very careful about marking the yesses on the right number, then you can just go through and fill in the unanswered questions on the sheet by filling in the "false" oval.  When you turn in your package, you will get a lot of funny looks and comments about how you couldn't have done it right, but it works.  Just don't goof up and mark a "true" on the wrong line or accidently skip a line.  Even if you do, it is no big deal, since it is all true/false and mostly false. All that could happen is that two answers get switched.  It's not like the multiple choice where one line can screw up the rest of the test.

[alphacookie]

I am sooooo close!  Received a message today that I was cleared and to give HR a call to arrange a start date.  So, I did.  HR apologized and said they made a mistake.  I am cleared through security but not medical.......yet?

I called medical and asked if there was a problem.  Apparently, the medical director has some lingering questions regarding another condition and if it was "cured" after I had surgery.  The condition will never be "cured".  The only intent by my doctor, for performing the surgery, was to improve my quality of life.

The doc is understandably concerned that my underlying condition which casued my depression may cause sleepiness during licensing class and in the control room.  But, IT IS TREATABLE.

Is a conditional license possible?

[Already Gone]

You won't need a conditional license.  It takes months to get your license - assuming that you are going directly into license class.  Most operators don't get into license class for a few years.  (You weren't specific as to what job you were offered, so I'm assuming it is one of those direct-license deals.)  By that time, you can show that you have no trouble staying awake.  I mean, for Christ's sake! These people are going to put you on a rotating shift!  If there is anything on this planet that can cause you to be sleepy at work, the rotating shift is the thing that will do it.  A case of sleep apnea is amateur hour compared to that.

In my cynical little mind, I'm wondering if they aren't balking at your pre-existing condition as a potential dent in their group health insurance rate.  Some companies won't hire people who are overweight, smoke, have dangerous hobbies, ... etc. because they don't want the higher insurance rates.

Still, I wouldn't sweat if I were you.  It looks like you are in.  Have fun.

[alphacookie]

You won't need a conditional license.  It takes months to get your license - assuming that you are going directly into license class.  Most operators don't get into license class for a few years.  (You weren't specific as to what job you were offered, so I'm assuming it is one of those direct-license deals.)  By that time, you can show that you have no trouble staying awake.  I mean, for Christ's sake! These people are going to put you on a rotating shift!  If there is anything on this planet that can cause you to be sleepy at work, the rotating shift is the thing that will do it.  A case of sleep apnea is amateur hour compared to that.

In my cynical little mind, I'm wondering if they aren't balking at your pre-existing condition as a potential dent in their group health insurance rate.  Some companies won't hire people who are overweight, smoke, have dangerous hobbies, ... etc. because they don't want the higher insurance rates.

Still, I wouldn't sweat if I were you.  It looks like you are in.  Have fun.

Yes, it is a SRO instant position.  I know and you know I will not need a conditional license right now, but medical wants to address the issue now "just in case" I MAY need one.

Yes, I agree 100% with your position.  I have done many years of rotating shift work, many years of no/very little sleep on a submarine and I have been through Nuke Power School twice.  Not once have I fell asleep on the job.  All that before I was diagnosed and had the problem corrected.

I am really just looking forward to getting started and having fun.

Now, I wait.

Thanks again BeerCourt.

[alphacookie]

In Conclusion:

1) Past depression is definitely not an issue if trying to get a job at a commercial plant.

2) I AM IN!!!  I am "Medically Qualified" but not "Qualified", as it was explained to me over the phone.  Basically, I am qualified to start work, go to licensing class and ultimately get licensed.  But, unlike you lucky SOB's who do not have anything wrong with you, I must submit my temple of a body to the medical director for periodic(on top of the biennial requirement) probings to verify my "parameters are still within spec and normalized".  If my parameters go out of spec, then they red circle me and place me out of commission.

3) Most importantly, though, thanks everyone for your input and honesty.  The Navy's loss is the commercial world's gain.  I, sure as h%((, am much better off!  I AM IN!!!

[wolfxoman]

Congratulations on your success in getting in to license class and good luck to you on finishing too.  As far as the increased survalence don't let it bother you and maybe even look into some sort of meditation (Not Medication) to ease your mind thru the class.

Again congrats and good luck.