The Nuclear Renaissance

[withroaj]

To begin with I would like to apologize to everyone who has read my posts and think I am too uppity and have spoke too soon on this forum.  I have frequented nukeworker for the last few years, from shortly after I joined the Navy and throughout the various milestones therein (phases of training, SPU, boat, LIMDU).  Only upon reporting to LIMDU have I really taken the time to construct the pedistal that I stand on and spout nonsense upon the community.  Sorry about that, I seriously have too much time on my hands.

As I draw closer to my six year point my buddies are all starting to get out, many of them without even having jobs lined up.  A few have sent resumes to plants and been denied jobs, not because of the guys themselves, but because the plants simply aren't hiring at a time that supports the departing sailor's EAOS.  I don't want to bring up the recruiter thing, since they do their jobs and we join the Navy.  I do want to bring up the general consensus within the Navy nuke community that we will be swept up into the commercial world upon leaving the Navy;  that the 'old guard' commercial operators are retiring en masse and that the departing nukes will just roll into the new opeinings.

From what I've seen these guys aren't getting swept up, and despite my self-righteous, incoherent babbling that surely destroys any cerdibility I may have, I can say that these are good people.  They may put themselves at risk because of the Navy being their first experience away from mommy, not realizing that grown-ups have jobs, they put their desire to leave the military over their general well being.  They may also be too dependent on one particular region of the US to settle when they get out, but those who are willing to move to nuclear communities don't seem to be finding nuclear jobs.  Of the last ten to get out, I think only one works at a plant right now.  True, many Navy Nukes get out so burned out on nuclear power that they decide to do other jobs, but I have seen a couple actually unable to get nuke jobs on the way out.  Are these people just aiming too high for their entry-level jobs (coming from a world where a guy with two years operational experience calls himself senior)?  Does their problem come from the fact that they think SRO on the boat is the same as SRO in a big kids' plant?

My question:  Is the nuclear renaissance here, or is it just on the horizon?  Do we have to wait for new plants or for the old folks to retire, or can we take our Navy nuclear training from 6-or-8-and-out to a plant to make money?

[JustinHEMI05]

My experience is the opposite. Of the last 10 guys I know that got out, 6 are at plants 4 went onto other things. The problem with the nuke industry is that they hire in cycles. So, if they are not filling a class right now, then they aren't going to hire you for NLO/SRO, typically. I wouldn't blame the industry. I would ask your friends just how many places they applied to, and did they search the job openings? In my experience, you have to apply from the website where the specific job opening is, and if there was a listing, and they didn't get hired... then they need to look at themselves. One falsehood that Navy nukes have is that they are going to be auto-hired... that is simply not true. I do know a few guys that are blowing their interviews or the POSS exam, probably because they went into it with the "I am a shoe in" attitude. Or, they couldn't answer questions like "Tell me about a time that you helped lead a team in solving a problem, using the STAR technique."

Now, if they looked at the job site and applied for a job that wasn't posted (which you can't do in most cases), then of course they aren't going to be hired yet. They could go into queue for the next cycle. Also, it tells me that they haven't networked. They haven't come to a place like nukeworker.com to make contacts and give out their name and resume. Here, they could also find out the cycles of many places. For example, I could tell you the next time we will be hiring for NLO. Mike could do the same for his plant. Both of us could hand deliver a guys resume if he meets our individual qualifications (I did it twice in my short time at PV, and both were hired). Sometimes, if you know the right person, they can help you out quite a bit. But again, in the end, it comes down to the individual in the interview room.

If they aren't getting hired, sorry, but its not the industries fault. They need to take another look at their resume, their careers and their interview styles. 6 and out nukes are a dime a dozen, and from what I have seen here, they industry skims for the top of the crop. A guy that did something to make his career stand out. Why? Because they aren't just looking to just fill an NLO slot with this guy, they are hiring guys who will go on to be SROs someday.

So if you or your friends are one of those 6 and outters that did just enough to get by without getting in trouble, well, good luck. With a little determination you will probably get hired but its going to take a little more work. You won't be able to drop your resume at 1-5 places, you need to apply anywhere and everywhere. Putting all your eggs in one basket is a sure path to disappointment. Open up your search and realize that you just need to get your foot in the door somewhere, even if its a place you wouldn't normally want to work/live. You are going to have to learn how to answer questions like I mentioned above.

Even worse is an 8-10 and outter who didn't do anything like qualify EWS or get a degree.

Hope that helps.


Justin

[withroaj]

I'm not too worried about myself here, I have a couple years left on the ol' contract and I won't get out until I have met the goals I have for my time in (supervisory experience and a degree).  I'm more worried about the guys who leave to the hallowed CIVLANT/CIVPAC without a real plan.  Just want to see what advice you fellers would put up for me to pass around.  I refer this site to anyone talking about getting out, but many don't really listen.

[JustinHEMI05]

I'm not too worried about myself here, I have a couple years left on the ol' contract and I won't get out until I have met the goals I have for my time in (supervisory experience and a degree).  I'm more worried about the guys who leave to the hallowed CIVLANT/CIVPAC without a real plan.  Just want to see what advice you fellers would put up for me to pass around.  I refer this site to anyone talking about getting out, but many don't really listen.

Well there you go. They don't have a plan. I knew a few like that too. A couple guys that were banking on another friend, that didn't pay out for them. If they aren't listening to you about coming here, bad on them. That is the best advice you could give them, because here, we could direct them to where they need to go. Maybe explain to them too, that to get hired as an NLO with no Navy experience requires a degree. So the industry isn't looking to hire retards, Navy or not. And it really shows in the level of professionalism and integrity out here. Gone are the days of guys too lazy to take logs, wipe up oil, analyze a sample, survey an area or really learn their job, in my experience thus far. I have been so very impressed with the NLOs at my plant. And the interview process weeds out the crap bags from the Navy... the guys that were no loads. The questions asked cannot be faked, and the true being of a person will come out.

Good for you, that you have a plan. Sounds like you are on the right track, and when the time comes, you shouldn't have much trouble finding what you need.

Justin

[rlbinc]

Let's talk about a client of mine.
This company has recently discovered that the enactment of the Fatigue Rule has left them very short on Licensed Operators.
Very short might not accurately characterize the situation. Desperately short might be a more accurate description.

They will run +20 man License Classes at all of their sites for the forseeable future, which depletes their NLO ranks.

That makes jobs aplenty for Navy Nukes.

If you can't find a job - either there is a good reason, or you aren't really looking.

My nephew got out (2nd generation nuke) last year and got a nice job with a French company, and he loves it.

[wlrun3@aol.com]

   ...Desperately short ...

   ...is there no one that frequents this site that is in power to muster our combined mutual interests and do something to strengthen what we all depend on...

   ...i, for one, would help...
   
   ..."we must all hang together or assuredly we will all hang seperately"...franlklin

[JsonD13]

What are you talking about??

The way you are making it sound is if you are saying that employers should be looking on nukeworker for employees. 

Even though I am in the Navy still, I realize that NO ONE is going to come find me for a job, you need to find your own.

Is this serious or just a version of freelance poetry?

[JohnK87]

Several years ago I saw a growing "perfect storm" for nuclear workers.

The original "Perfect Storm" was three separate weather systems that combined east of Newfoundland and retrograded back towards the coast.  Great book by Sebastian Junger.

Anyway, my original "3 storms" combining into one HUGE storm was
1)  The coming wave of retirements in an industry with an average age around 45 yrs.
2)  The reduction in size of the Nuclear Navy and trained personnel leaving becoming less numerous.
3)  The hiring of new personnel for new nuclear plant construction.

The first two have already hit and continue to bash the rocks of fate, the third one will begin as soon as construction starts on the first plants.

The new OT rule was proposed by people who wanted to make nuclear power more expensive to operate, and supported by unions who recognized it would result in more people having to be hired.  It is starting to show up in the bonuses and pay given people straight out of the Navy to go to Direct SRO school.  Many companies are still holding their hands over their eyes and hoping, but it won't do any good.  The ones that are smart are offering much more money now to get people through classes by the time the rule comes, and often that is at the expense of those companies who hold compensation constant.

It is a great time to be an SRO, an engineer, and to a lesser extent an HP/Chem.  There will be a LOT of upward pressure on compensation to attract and retain people in the next few years.  I can see some companies who don't react in time taking extraordinary measures to keep operating.  For instance, Turkey Point is right now down to 3 operating crews and is hiring/training at a furious rate.  Word is that SM's are being offered $300k/yr and a 500k bonus if they stay for 5 years.  THAT is good.   

[JsonD13]

Wow.......almost makes me wish im not moving back home.......well not really.

Miss them lakes!


Jason

[Preciousblue1965]

Ok what is an "SM"?   I don't work in the Commercial nuclear field(although I might consider it soon) so I have no idea what that is.

[Nuclear NASCAR]

Ok what is an "SM"?   I don't work in the Commercial nuclear field(although I might consider it soon) so I have no idea what that is.

It's a Shift Manager, sometimes also called an OS (Operating Supervisor).  That would be the person in charge of the Operations crew on duty.

[rlbinc]

... NO ONE is going to come find me for a job...

For a Millennial, you seem to have a pretty solid grasp on the commercial nuclear job market. Most think there is some sort of Cosmic Nuclear Soccer Mom who will individually direct each candidate to their dream job.
She was downsized in the 90's, sorry.

The fact is - initiative is well measured by the approach one takes while looking for a job. And that one trait is exactly what the utilities are looking for. One would be well advised to gain contacts through professional organizations. There are a few. For folks your age I particularly like the one we call the young 'uns (NA-YGN) - look at their site and see who sponsors their meetings and events. Yup, those big buck utilities trip over themselves to provide cash and facilities for this group. There will be folks at those meetings you might want to get to know.

When you do send resumes, send them to both Human Resources and the department you want to work for.  Call the site and arrange a visit with that department. Some odd forces come in to play here. When YOU think you are important enough to warrant consideration - others tend to agree.
I always called that the power of Operator Ego. The Hindu's call it Karma and Austin Powers calls it his Mojo. But whatever it's called, open up a whole can of it and apply liberally.

[withroaj]

I really appreciate that NA-YGN advice.  It seems like a great place to start networking and I signed up.  I'll pass the info on to all my pals wanting to separate.

[Khak-Hater]

Unfortunately, few things are fair in life, whether in the military or civilian job market.  Plants may be hiring like gangbusters for a few months, then you may go through a significant drought.  My experience is that, if you work hard, there are always opportunities, even though they may not be the ones that you thought that you'd be looking for.  When I got to the ship, the short timers were all getting high-paying jobs as RadCon Techs, but over a couple of years those dried up considerably [due to some fluctuations in DOE hiring and shorter outages at power plants].  Then, about the time of my original EAOS [which wasn't applicable for me since I'd reenlisted in prototype], my peers were all highly recruited getting operator jobs at power plants [due primarilly to a lot of plants at the time adding an extra shift for training].

At my EAOS, no one was hiring, I sent out 120 resumes and got three interviews [one with ComEd as a Health Physicist, and two with DOE contractors].  This search did yield the most amusing rejection that I've ever heard of however.  Florida Power Corp, who historically ran Crystal River, responded to my resume with a standard looking little green post card that said something to the effect of:

"Thanks for the submission of your resume and your expressed interest in working with us at Crystal River.  Having reviewed your resume, we do not have any positions available at this time that meet your qualifications, nor do we anticipate having any in the future.  We will not retain your resume on file and request that you refrain from sending us any more in the future."

I always thought that was the funniest thing.

Regardless, you take the opportunities that life gives you and do the most with them.  They may not be what you planned, but they're all good.

As to the nuclear renaissance, I can tell you that there is more hiring going on now than I've seen in the last fourteen years, and with all of the renewed interest in the nuclear industry and old dudes retiring [most guys I work with are ten to twenty years older than me], it can only get better.  It's all a game of musical chairs.  You can't think about what positions are currently posted.  You have to think about who's going to fill those positions and what openings they'll create when they do.  As a final note, keep an open mind.  There are a good many high paying positions [or at least gateway jobs to those positions] available to Navy Nukes other than Operators at power plants.

The future is very bright,

MGM

[withroaj]

And all anyone has to do is read you experienced fellers' responses to realize the true glory of nukeworker.com.  No short supply of information and inspiration, and I'd imagine connections when specific help is needed.  You guys are the best.

[withroaj]

Does Navy experience help with plant understanding in a PWR plant more vs. BWR, or does it not really make a difference since we'd have to learn it all from the ground up?  I'm thinking I want to either play in Chem, Radcon, HP or OPs when I get out (or is that what they all say? ).

[Nuclear Renaissance]

Be it BWR or PWR, you'll get taught what you need to know. That being said, you probably always have the Navy's stance on bulk boiling in the core in the back of your mind.

[RDTroja]

Does Navy experience help with plant understanding in a PWR plant more vs. BWR, or does it not really make a difference since we'd have to learn it all from the ground up?  I'm thinking I want to either play in Chem, Radcon, HP or OPs when I get out (or is that what they all say? ).

I was not in the navy, but over the last 34 years I have seen my share of transitioning navy-to-commercial personnel in most fields. Naturally, the answer is yes, and no.

Navy experience helps with fundamentals, but not with the reality of actually working in a commercial plant. The first impression will be -- (fill in favorite expletive here) this place is HUGE! Then when you first experience commercial radiation and contamination levels the real shock sets in. It has gotten better than it was because most of the nasty, dirty plants are either cleaned up or closed down... but not all of them. Most of the concepts are the same but the scale makes a lot of things largely unreconizable at least at first. There are a lot of pre-conceived notions you will have to let go of... but at the same time there will be familiarity.

It also has a lot to do with where you start. I worked with a technician fresh off the boat that got thrown into the bowels of Pilgim's Radwaste facility in 1978... I would not wish that on my worst enemy. The shock just about sent him out of the utility industry all together. But with a little coaching he got over it and became a very good tech and a good friend as well. If you can't adapt I recommend you go somewhere else, but if you come in expecting to be a bit surprised and you can handle the change, it is still a pretty good industry, IMHO.

Navy experience helps and hurts... adaptability is everything.

[Fermi2]

No, you operated a startup source and that's about it.
It might help with the GFE, but usually only the heat transfer part.
You get more in your first two weeks of systems than in your entire Start Up Source experience. Not to mention AOP and EOP training.

Mike

[JustinHEMI05]

Does Navy experience help with plant understanding in a PWR plant more vs. BWR, or does it not really make a difference since we'd have to learn it all from the ground up?  I'm thinking I want to either play in Chem, Radcon, HP or OPs when I get out (or is that what they all say? ).

In my short experience thus far (can't wait to stop with that qualifyer), I have to say that my Navy experience has helped with both (PWR... Palo Verde, BWR... Peach Bottom), a lot. Fission is fission and steam can only turn turbines in a couple of ways. My Navy experience made it possible for me to walk in here and have intelligent converstations with people, as it has really prepared me for understanding how these things work. That said, my Navy experience has done very little to prepare me to actually operate a commercial plant. They are vastly more complicated than a Navy plant and have control systems upon control systems that you have to learn. And you think Navy tech is outdated? HA... come to Peach once. On top of learning how to actually operate it, you have to know a million times more paperwork and admin stuff than in the Navy, as well as the federal law. In summary, yes my Navy experience was very helpful in understanding the basics (hot rock), but was barely beneficial in making me able to actually run the place.

Justin

[Preciousblue1965]

Justin, I have decided to reject your reality and subsititue my own(I have a feeling that a LOT of nukes are going to know where that comes from).  Well actually I thank you for giving us all more info from your own perspective.  Are you Direct SRO or you working your way up?

[JustinHEMI05]

Justin, I have decided to reject your reality and subsititue my own(I have a feeling that a LOT of nukes are going to know where that comes from).  Well actually I thank you for giving us all more info from your own perspective.  Are you Direct SRO or you working your way up?

Instant SRO.

Justin

[Gamecock]

Justin, I have decided to reject your reality and subsititue my own(I have a feeling that a LOT of nukes are going to know where that comes from). 

  Are you insinuating that you have to be "geeky" to watch Mythbusters??? 

[Preciousblue1965]

  Are you insinuating that you have to be "geeky" to watch Mythbusters??? 

I did not "hint" or "insinuate" anything, sounds to me like a "geeky" guilty conscience. 

I have maintained that every nuke has at least 1 "geeky" tendency about them, looks like we found GameCock's. 

[Gamecock]

I did not "hint" or "insinuate" anything, sounds to me like a "geeky" guilty conscience. 

I have maintained that every nuke has at least 1 "geeky" tendency about them, looks like we found GameCock's. 

If only that were my only one!!

But my kids think I'm cool...well at least my youngest one does!!